[Web4lib] Getting Rid of IE 6

Andrew Mutch amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us
Fri Apr 10 21:42:18 EDT 2009 

All of this is very reminiscent of the discussions that took place here when people were trying to decide how much effort they were going to make supporting Netscape 4 after it was no longer the browser of choice. I think Lisa's point that it's not very helpful to throw a huge stop sign or the visual equivalent at users is correct. Realistically, your site isn't the first site that an IE 6 user has visited where things don't look just right or act just right. If they haven't realized that their browser is the cause, then you may be doing a bit of community service by pointing that out to them. But most of them have already realized that and for whatever reason, a browser upgrade isn't their top priority. With a bit of JS and CSS, you should be able to add a note to the page indicating that their browser isn't fully supported and a link to a page where they can find upgrade options would  strike the right balance.

As far as how long we support older browsers, I can sympathize with David C.'s dilemma. How long do you allow the needs of the 5% delay or preclude you from offering new features or services to the other 95% of users? At a certain point, I think you have to say "Our library will offer basic access to everyone but certain features may only be available to those using a standards-compliant browser." In the past, cutting off a certain browser version had more of an impact on end-users than it does today. While IE 7 might not run on Windows 2000, there are plenty of browser out there that do run on older computers and support current standards so that a feature that doesn't work in IE 6 will work in FF 2 or Opera or some other browser. I think we're finally past the days where we coded for a specific browser. Sure, we still need to be aware of the quirks of certain browsers but the days of setting up hacks for IE this or Netscape that should be past us.

Andrew Mutch
Library Systems Technician
Waterford Township Public Library
Waterford, MI


----- Original Message -----
From: "L Cohn" <lcohn at bplnj.org>
To: web4lib at webjunction.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:53:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Getting Rid of IE 6



I agree with some of the comments in reply to mine. My biggest concern is accessibility, but not just to the few folk or are blind or disabled in some way.....Here's my point of view.

In my library, I see a very few people using their own laptops on our wireless signal, who have good equipment and know how to use it. I'd call them the minority.

Most of what I see are some elderly people who wouldn't know how to upgrade or even what the word means (a message popping up to tell them to upgrade would scare the heck out of them).  Then there are the disadvantaged folks who can't afford a new computer and if they tried to upgrade on the one they're using, it would just crash (if the popup message didn't make it crash).  And, of course, there are the hoards who don't own computers and come in to use or crash ours (dumb terminals sharing a server in the back - they don't run IE, and can't upgrade or download anything and half the time the system blocks what they are trying to do in any case, legitimate or otherwise - don't get me started).

But, I've learned in web designing and in providing IT assistance to our computers and the general public, is to keep everything as simple as possible.  My coding is rather primitive according to most standards, I'm sure. It's not so much keeping it backwards compatible when what you and most of your clientele are working with IS backwards.... <wry smile>.

But my point is still, when a great many people have trouble searching your catalog and just getting online, why start throwing up messages and making them upgrade.  Put a note somewhere not to intrusive that says, "Website best viewed in IE8, click here to download..." and let the people download it who want to.  Then people who can't or won't can ignore it and go about what they were doing....

Lisa

------------------------------------
Lisa Cohn, ILL, WebMaster,  Reference
Bloomfield Public Library,  bplnj.org
90 Broad Street, Bloomfield, NJ 07003
  973-566-6200x217, lcohn at bplnj.org
------------------------------------


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: jimm wetherbee <jimm at wingate.edu>
Date:  Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:05:03 -0400

>David King wrote:
>> I use the 5% rule - if it drops below 5%, we don't support it.
>>
>Never mind IE6. It is getting close to the point where we will have to
>support web enabled cell phones.
>
>--jimm
>> David Lee King
>> davidleeking.com - blog
>> davidleeking.com/etc - videoblog
>> twitter | skype: davidleeking
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Tim Spalding <tim at librarything.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Your sentiment is good, I think, but clearly there's a limit.
>>> Supporting Netscape 2 would be so costly and useful to so few that no
>>> web developer—government or not—would do it. In the business world,
>>> it's a pretty clear-cut benefit/gain decision. What do you think the
>>> rule should be for libraries?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 5:13 PM, L Cohn <lcohn at bplnj.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm missing something here, but aren't we supposed to
>>>>
>>> be making our websites accessible to people using a variety of browsers so
>>> that they can access our catalogs and find information on our sites?  This
>>> discussion sounds like we're turning up our noses at our own clientele.
>>>  Some people are so technophobic that we're lucky they're looking in the
>>> catalog at all, much less stopping what they're doing to download what we
>>> consider to be proper for them.  Make your website accessible to them, don't
>>> throw roadblocks in their way by throwing messages up on the screens.  If
>>> you work with the general public long enough, you notice that they aren't
>>> even reading the messages that pop up in front of them.  The ones who know
>>> computers, just click OK and ignore the message.  The ones who are
>>> technophobic see the word install and run screaming from the computer,
>>> afraid they broke something.
>>>
>>>> You're just scaring them off the world wide web. Stop throwing roadblocks
>>>>
>>> at them.  It's your job to make your website accessible, not theirs.
>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>> Lisa Cohn, ILL, WebMaster,  Reference
>>>>> Bloomfield Public Library,  bplnj.org
>>>>> 90 Broad Street, Bloomfield, NJ 07003
>>>>>  973-566-6200x217, lcohn at bplnj.org
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>>>> From: David Kane <dkane at wit.ie>
>>>>> Date:  Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:02:46 +0100
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Run a Javascript browser detection script that advises them to update.
>>>>>> If this update is a problem for them, - then they need more help that
>>>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>>>> could ever give..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Kane
>>>>>> Waterford Institute of Technology
>>>>>> Ireland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/4/10 Cloutman, David <DCloutman at co.marin.ca.us>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My library is looking to launch our new Web site last month (hurray).
>>>>>>> Early in the development process, about 6 months ago, I had to make a
>>>>>>> decision about what browsers the new site would support in terms of
>>>>>>>
>>> HTML
>>>
>>>>>>> / CSS. My goal was at least 95% support of what was being used. At
>>>>>>>
>>> that
>>>
>>>>>>> time, I looked at the numbers, and decided that IE6 would be going
>>>>>>>
>>> away,
>>>
>>>>>>> and that over the life of the site, it wouldn't be an issue. (I figure
>>>>>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>> typical site keeps a template for about 3 years.) The problem is that
>>>>>>> the IE 6 market share has only gone down marginally since I made that
>>>>>>> decision, and I'm looking at about 90% - 93% browser support at launch
>>>>>>> time. It's not the end of the world, but in order to mitigate the
>>>>>>>
>>> issue,
>>>
>>>>>>> I have posted a browser detecting JavaScript routine that looks for
>>>>>>> versions if IE <=6, and then displays a message telling them to
>>>>>>>
>>> upgrade.
>>>
>>>>>>> The technology works great. I'm tracking all the IE 6 hits through
>>>>>>> images that load in the message. I'm also tracking click-throughs to
>>>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>> IE Upgrade page and the Firefox page. (I wanted to give people
>>>>>>>
>>> options.)
>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is that after a week I'm still getting a lot of hits, but
>>>>>>> diminishing numbers of click-throughs. Part of the problem may be that
>>>>>>> the IE upgrade page on the Microsoft's site doesn't load flawlessly in
>>>>>>> IE 6. (Oops.) The other problem may be that people saw the warning
>>>>>>> regarding the pending non-support of their browser, and my rather
>>>>>>> technical disclaimer urging them to upgrade, and are now ignoring it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here's my question for the list. How do I communicate to users, who
>>>>>>> for all I know may not even know the meaning of the word "upgrade",
>>>>>>>
>>> that
>>>
>>>>>>> they need to visit the Microsoft site, work through the issues, and
>>>>>>> install a new piece of software? Also, and this is more fun issue, for
>>>>>>> the ones that are really just lazy or obstinate, how do I grab their
>>>>>>> attention. I am not above using Lolcats or dancing hamsters. Creative
>>>>>>> suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Happy Friday,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> David Cloutman <dcloutman at co.marin.ca.us>
>>>>>>> Electronic Services Librarian
>>>>>>> Marin County Free Library
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Email Disclaimer:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Web4lib mailing list
>>>>>>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Web4lib mailing list
>>>>>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>>>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Web4lib mailing list
>>>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Web4lib mailing list
>>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Jimm Wetherbee                 | jimm at wingate.edu
>Information Systems Librarian  | Voice: 704-233-8092
>E.K. Smith Library             | Fax:   704-233-8254
>Wingate University             | http://library.wingate.edu/staff/jmw/
>Wingate, NC 28174              | lux et fides
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Web4lib mailing list
>Web4lib at webjunction.org
>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>




_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4lib at webjunction.org
http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/

More information about the Web4lib mailing list