[Web4lib] Re: Web Languages

Cloutman, David DCloutman at co.marin.ca.us
Mon Jul 14 16:25:17 EDT 2008 

A similar idea, that is a little more in my comfort zone, but probably
not as slick as Grails is the Resin / Quercus, which gives you a Servlet
container with a built-in Java port of PHP 5. Its far from perfect, but
one person at Code4lib in February said he was using to scale his Drupal
installation.

http://www.caucho.com/

---
David Cloutman <dcloutman at co.marin.ca.us>
Electronic Services Librarian
Marin County Free Library 

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Colleen Robledo
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:14 PM
To: Tim Spalding
Cc: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Re: Web Languages


I agree that Java is still the choice language for large enterprise
applications, and fortunately, the Java community has paid attention
to the need for more agile flexible frameworks like RoR and
Django/Python, with the still relatively new Grails framework.  Grails
allows for heavy OO Java integration, but also allows for the rapid
deployment of RoR and Django.

So, watch for Grails job listings too in your unofficial status.

Colleen Robledo, MLIS
Web Developer (PHP/RoR/Grails)

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Tim Spalding <tim at librarything.com>
wrote:
> The Craigslist data is interesting. Someone with time on their hands
> should do it for various different markets. I suspect SF leads the
> nation, with Cambridge, MA close behind, and that Craigslist Maine is
> asking for Integer Basic programmers.
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Cloutman, David
> <DCloutman at co.marin.ca.us> wrote:
>> Tim,
>>
>> You may be right in the long run, if Ruby follows the evolutionary
path
>> of PHP, though I think PHP will adapt, with better frameworks
emerging
>> (like Symfony) and native Unicode support in PHP 6. As far as Java
goes,
>> I think it is the COBOL of the future. If you know if, you'll
probably
>> be able to find a legacy application to support for the rest of your
>> life. And for many things, I still think it is a choice development
>> language. For heavy duty OO programming, I really think a strongly
typed
>> language works better, and for that reason I do not see Ruby or
Python
>> being Java killers.
>>
>> I would not totally discount your book sales data. It certainly
>> indicates the level of interest in learning a technology. However, I
>> don't think it is necessarily indicates traction for any particular
>> technology.
>>
>> My own unscientific metric for languages is searching the Craigslist
job
>> listing for the SF Bay Area. (This includes silicon valley.) For my
>> purposes, I look at "internet engineering jobs" and "web design
jobs".
>> Here are today's numbers by keyword.
>>
>>                             PHP    Java   Ruby   Python PERL
>> internet engineering jobs    110    71     22     19     109
>> web design jobs              167    246    85     98     31
>>
>>
>> It will be interesting to see how these numbers shift when the first
ROR
>> apps reach legacy status, as is currently happening with PHP and
>> happened a few years back to PERL.
>>
>> - David
>>
>> ---
>> David Cloutman <dcloutman at co.marin.ca.us>
>> Electronic Services Librarian
>> Marin County Free Library
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tim Spalding
>> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 7:40 PM
>> To: Dan Scott
>> Cc: Marcie Pierson; Thomas Dowling; web4lib at webjunction.org
>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] RE: Open source support models
>>
>>
>> Incidentally, lest you think I'm being a language snob or bending the
>> evidence to my own ends, I was a Perl hacker once and I program in
>> PHP. I do not know Ruby-or Python for that matter. But I've tried to
>> hire smart, young programmers-for Perl when I was at Houghton Mifflin
>> and for PHP at LibraryThing. The top talent out there now has mostly
>> gravitated to Ruby and Python. I *hate* that, but it is a fact.
>>
>> These is not some sort of bull feeling of mine, but are exhaustively
>> documented every year by Tim O'Reilly in his yearly book-industry
>> analyses. PHP, Java and C/C++ have shrunk five years running. Ruby
>> came out of nowhere and is now quite significant--particularly as
Ruby
>> programmers seem to be less book-oriented than some others.
>>
>>
http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/03/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-23.html
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Tim Spalding <tim at librarything.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the correction on Evergreen.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say I needed correcting on VuFind, though. Saying that
>>> VuFind isn't mostly PHP because there are chunks of shell scripting
>>> and HTML is like saying that a car isn't made out of steel and glass
>>> because it also has leather seats and pockets of air. Much the same
is
>>> true of SQL and, depending on what you're doing with it, JavaScript.
>>> And if you're going to count lines HTML against lines of code, you
>>> should also factor in all the GIF and JPEG images, not to mention
>>> Cascading Style Sheets. This way lies madness.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>> Ha! Fact-checking is readily available for a few of these projects
at
>>>> http://www.ohloh.net/projects/evergreen/analyses/latest (for
>>>> Evergreen) and http://www.ohloh.net/projects/10977/analyses/latest
>>>> (for VUFind).
>>>>
>>>> So a correction: the business logic of Evergreen is written
primarily
>>>> in Perl and SQL, with a few optimized sections rewritten in C. The
>>>> current catalogue interface is primarily JavaScript with XHTML, and
>>>> the staff client user interface is written in Mozilla XUL (XML +
>>>> JavaScript). The user interface for most new staff client
>>>> functionality is being built with the Dojo JavaScript framework.
>>>> Python is used for the internationalization build infrastructure
and
>>>> for the new EDI piece.
>>>>
>>>> The choice of language in the project largely comes down to using
the
>>>> most appropriate tool for the job. That's one of the advantages you
>>>> get from building an application using a service-oriented
>>>> architecture.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dan Scott
>>>> Laurentian University
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out my library at
>> http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out my library at
http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Check out my library at
http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
>
>
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-- 
Colleen Robledo
http://www.colleenrobledo.net


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