[Web4lib] Resources? -- Web Standards and Semantic Markup

Tue May 1 17:10:48 EDT 2007

Hi Tim, 

I think you make some good points, and while I am a strong proponent of the
use of web standards, I agree that there are always compromises in the world
of web design.

I have no real points of content, in fact, with what you have said . . .
however, for clarification...

At the moment I am really just looking for materials that will help
familiarize our GA with some of the issues and best practices related to
writing valid and semantically-accurate markup for the Web.  

I am certainly not trying to endoctrinate him into becoming a lesser or
greater "web standardista" (see: http://alistapart.com/articles/alphabet)
Our intention is merely to help prepare him for a small project we have
planned for him to clean up some HTML content we have on hand.  

Some of this will simply involve manual conversion of markup from HTML 4.0
(or older) to XHTML, or at least what cannot be done reliably using
automated methods (i.e. HTML tidy).  

The other half will be to make it more accessible (e.g. alt tags)
semantically reliable (li for lists, p for paragraphs), as well as further
separate structure from presentation (br tags, stray font tags, etc.).

This will help fit the content better mesh with current and future web
templates - as well as providing the other benefits of standards-based
markup.

We hope to use this as both a beneficial project for the library - as well
as fruitful educational experience for the GA - hence the introduction to
basic issues, etc.

There is, no doubt, that perfectly valid and universally accessible markup
is not always (and in every single case) possible or even preferable - but
when doable, seems a more-than-reasonable goal for a designer.

Jon :)

Jonathan Blackburn
AIM/E-mail: jblackbu at mailer.fsu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tim Spalding
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 4:50 PM
To: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Resources? -- Web Standards and Semantic Markup

Without opening up a can of worms-one that's been opened before-I'd
encourage you to acquire competence (or excellence) in the field of
web design, and consider standards to be partially aligned with that,
but hardly the same thing.

"Web standards" have, after all, no normative force. What we do is
judged by quality, cost and speed. The degree of importance some
ascribe to "web standards" can bear little relation to reality. For
example, the overwhelming majority of the top 100 trafficked sites on
the web do not validate-often not by a long shot-and not because
they're stupid. (Google's not stupid, at least.) And, in my humble
experience, "standards" language on a resume is like certifications,
at least irrelevant and often a contraindication of talent and
creativity.

Tim

On 5/1/07, Chris Gray <cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> Another article worth reading is Steve Champeon's "The Secret Life of
> Markup".  He is another co-author of the book glasshaus book I mentioned
> in connection with Owen Briggs.
>
> "The idea of presentation, and its separation from content and the rest,
> is perhaps the most widely misunderstood but one of the most important
> ideas in Web and document design."
>
> Chris
>
> Andrew Darby wrote:
> > There's oodles of information out there, but you could look at the Web
> > Standards site, and specifically the "Learn" section:
> >
> > http://www.webstandards.org/learn/
> >
> > It's not as fleshed out as one might like, but there's a set of FAQs
> > and numerous links under "External Resources."
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Jonathan Blackburn <jblackbu at mailer.fsu.edu> wrote:
> >> Hi Everybody,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am a library web developer looking for suggestions for some solid
> >> "introductory" resources for learning about the importance AND use of
> >> web
> >> standards -- and specifically "semantic markup" --  in web design.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am providing a GA here in the library w/ a list of resources to begin
> >> reading related to a project he will be working on this summer.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> (E.G. maybe, a set of intro sources he can review over about 8-12
> >> hours -
> >> along w/ some more permanent reference materials he can refer to over
> >> the
> >> course of the project.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you have some nice (preferably web-based) resources you would like
to
> >> recommend, I would greatly appreciate it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jon :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jonathan Blackburn
> >>
> >> Web Development Librarian
> >>
> >> Florida State University Libraries
> >>
> >> AIM/E-mail: jblackbu at mailer.fsu.edu
> >>
> >> Phone: 850.645.6986
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Web4lib mailing list
> >> Web4lib at webjunction.org
> >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
> >>
> >
> >
>
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