[Web4lib] Subscriber Removal

Fri Dec 16 11:06:42 EST 2005

I totally agree with these sentiments.  Web4Lib is one of the most
consistently useful lists that I read, and it doesn't remain that way by
accident, but because there are fairly broad guidelines that require a
level of minimal professional etiquette and adherence to web-related
topics, and these guidelines are rarely but judiciously enforced.

 The role of list moderator is critical and a largely thankless job.  I've
been on this list for a number of years, during which time a very few
people have been  removed for cause.  The same pattern is always
followed: a thread goes on beyond any genuine usefulness and generally
ends up being just two or three people maintaining the thread while
everyone else watches like spectators at a tennis match.  One or more
persons take it personally, and at least one person takes it to an
unacceptable level, that person is generally a repeat offender,  and that
person is removed.  Several people post pro and con emails about the
removal, generally evoking fairness to the poster and/or freedom of
speech, a few people resign in protest, and we move on to another topic,
and the whole thing is basically forgotten until the next incident.

My concern is that this pattern is very wearing on the moderator (Roy).  I
agree with Jean--if this list is useful to you, you should trust the
judgment of the moderator.  If it is not useful to you, everyone knows how
to sign off a list.  It is not useful to ask the list to sign you off.  By
 now, Roy should not have to post the list guidelines for signing off
(another part of the pattern).

My $.02.  This ia a good list.  If you feel really strongly about the
removal, can you please unsubscribe yourself quietly.  If the list becomes
arbitrary and capricious in the removal of subscribers, it will go away. 
I think the fact that it is one of the older library lists shows that no
one perceives the list moderation as unfair or capricious.

Can we please support the moderator in the tough decision he had to make,
break the tired pattern of recrimination/defense and move on to
interesting topics, or even to last minute shopping, whatever works?

Happy holidays to everyone,

Grace Agnew

Grace Agnew

> My understanding is that Chuck has done this before, and been asked to
> leave the list before. A single use of the "fword" is not the problem,.
> The problem is that he has posted inappropriate messages, been asked to
> follow the list guidelines, and has declined.
>
> Yes, others have violated list guidelines in the past. That's why there
> are guidelines, they evolved in response to need. It takes more than a
> single incident to get somebody taken off the list.
>
> I've seen several lists destroyed by a couple of people who descend to
> off-topic personal attacks, and I really appreciate the way Roy and the
> board enforce the guidelines on Web4lib. That's one of the main reasons
> it has remained such a useful list for so many years. It goes without
> saying that anybody who prefers a different style of discussion or a
> different set of discussion topics is welcome to start their own list.
>
> Jean Hewlett
> Regional Librarian
> University of San Francisco
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rebecca Ryan <RRyan at ci.south-pasadena.ca.us>
> Date: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:43 pm
> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Subscriber Removal
>> Please allow me to say that the portion of the policy:
>>
>> "Comments that are intended only to enrage the recipient rather than
>> contribute to thoughtful discussion are prohibited." has been
>> violated by
>> more than just Chuck Munson in this discussion, and removing only
>> him from
>> the list for using the "f" word is as juvenile as ignoring the
>> issues the
>> discussion brings up. All the negative talk of devolution and
>> heavy sighing
>> for a discussion most pertinent to our profession is
>> disheartening.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roy Tennant [mailto:roy.tennant at ucop.edu]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 2:24 PM
>> To: Web4Lib
>> Subject: [Web4lib] Subscriber Removal
>>
>> A Web4Lib Advisory Board member was correctly attempting to remove
>> ChuckMunson (see below), which as it turns out, only I could do
>> (and did). Chuck
>> Munson was removed from Web4Lib in 1999 for repeatedly violating
>> list policy
>> (see <http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/
>> web4lib/1999-March/004882.html> for the removal notice). Web4Lib
>> Managementnever removed that sanction, and therefore it remains in
>> force.
>> We create and enforce policies to create a civil (even if
>> adversarial) discussion. Over the years that Web4Lib has existed
>> we have
>> added policies only as required to by the force of events. Once
>> created,however, we have enforced them strictly -- some may think
>> too strictly. But
>> the end result has been a relatively civil and yet interesting and
>> vitalforum for us all. The Web4Lib Advisory Board and the list
>> owner will not
>> allow a very small number of individuals to ruin that for everyone.
>> Roy Tennant
>> Web4Lib Owner
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Chuck0 wrote:
>>
>> > I know that a few people here don't like my opinions, but it
>> seem very
>> > silly that somebody submitted my email address for list removal.
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> >
>> > web4lib-request at webjunction.org wrote:
>> >> Mailing list removal confirmation notice for mailing list
>> Web4lib We
>> >> have received a request for the removal of your email address,
>> >> "chuck at mutualaid.org" from the web4lib at webjunction.org mailing
>> list.>> To confirm that you want to be removed from this mailing
>> list, simply
>> >> reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact.  Or
>> visit
>> >> this web page:
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Web4lib mailing list
>> > Web4lib at webjunction.org
>> > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4lib at webjunction.org
>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4lib at webjunction.org
> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
>