[WEB4LIB] RE: Blocking email, the complaint

[cruby]

Just a bit of trivia on this thread...

I did a little digging around on Dow Jones Interactive to see what I could
find on either ORBS or CompuSystem, Inc.  What I found makes me think Dan
Lester's list is nothing like what ORBS was trying to do.  There isn't a
whole lot of information but basically ORBS was an anti-spam site that
apparently went a little overboard in its zeal and that is where they got in
trouble.

I found very little information on CompuSystem, Inc.  It is apparently a
computer store based in Washington, MO, small town about 30 or 40 miles from
St. Louis.  The 1998 article I found said, at that time, CompuSystem was a
2,000 square foot store with 10 employees (but it didn't indicate if they
were full or part time).  I looked at the CompuSystem website and found it
interesting that, if you want to contact them via e-mail, the address is
yahoo at csimo.com.  Makes me wonder about the professionalism of the company.
But then the little information I found made me wonder about Joe Wolf too...

If you want the cites for the articles I found, let me know and I will be
happy to send them.

Carolyn

Carolyn Ruby
Micron Technology
MS 552
P.O. Box 6
8000 S. Federal Way
Boise, ID 83707
cruby at micron.com (e-mail)
208-368-4257 (voice)
208-368-3393 (fax)




-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Carver [mailto:btcarver at lisnews.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:45 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Blocking email, the complaint


I think it's a looooong story:

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/02/1540210.shtml

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,44876,00.html

---------------------
Blake Carver
LISNews.com
http://www.lisnews.com
Librarian and Information Science News


----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hamilton" <dhamilto at wlu.ca>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <web4lib at webjunction.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:25 PM
Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Blocking email, the complaint


> Somewhere in the following, someone says:
>
> "It may be of interest to you to examine what happened to the ORBS
> organization (http://www.orbs.org) after they attempted to publish a list
> similar to your actions."
>
> If you go to the ORBS site, it says "Due to circumstances beyond our
> control, the ORBS website is no longer available.". However, our campus
> blocking based on that site appears to work. Of course, I'm only looking
> into this because a site I want to mail to seems to be on the list, and
the
> question arises.... "How does one get a site off the list?".
>
> Does anyone know what happened with ORBS?
>
> don
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: web4lib at webjunction.org
> [mailto:web4lib at webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Dan Lester
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 1:58 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: [WEB4LIB] Blocking email, the complaint
>
>
> Well, I've received a bushel of request for the messages between
> csimo.com and me regarding their appearance on the blacklist. So, here
> is the thread.  Naturally, you'll have to start reading at the bottom,
> and for those not interested, use your delete key.  It is an
> interesting issue and fairly well related to the whole filtering issue
> in libraries.
>
> My comments to these folks don't represent my best writing, but since
> I was in my brother's basement with five kids romping around, to say
> nothing of adults partying, for all of my "thinking and writing" on
> this, at least I have an excuse.
>
> Any comments, to the list or private, appreciated.  I'll advise if
> they're happy when the list is changed tomorrow (can't do it today due
> to logistical problems).
>
> dan
>
>
> This is a forwarded message
> From: dan <dan at riverofdata.com>
> To: dan at riverofdata.com <dan at riverofdata.com>
> Date: Friday, July 06, 2001, 12:37:19 PM
> Subject: Complaint againt your customer...
>
> ===8<==============Original message text===============
> Well, since you consider this such a big deal, I will remove
> your company's name from the list on the web at the earliest
> possible opportunity.  That will be next Monday when I return
> home from the trip I'm currently on.  Unfortunately, I only
> have access to email from my current location, and have no
> way of maintaining anything on the website.  I assure you
> that it will be removed on Monday.
>
> I'll also advise other librarians of your complaint.  I wonder
> if you've also checked to see if you're blocked on one of the
> many other lists similar to mine?  There are a number of
> companies that maintain such lists for profit, rather than
> as a public service.  Do you also forbid Yahoo, Excite, and
> other services from referring to your name?
>
> Also, Boise State University has nothing to do with my websites,
> as they are personally maintained on my own time. In addition,
> no profit is derived from them, either by me or any other
> person I know of.
>
> Also, the purpose of the list is EXACTLY what it claims to
> be.  The web mail or web chat servers on the list were ones
> that were used in one of the many libraries that contribute
> to the list.  For all I know, the name of your company may
> have been contributed by a library in North Dakota, Texas,
> Hong Kong, or anywhere else, as dozens have contributed to
> the list.  I have no record of who contributed which servers,
> as the list is nothing but the servers blocked by a proxy
> server.  As you point out, there are many more mail servers
> than are on the list.  However, only the ones that have been
> contributed by libraries have been put on the list. Apparently
> others have not been used in libraries, or have not been
> reported to me.
>
> If the folks in North Dakota thought my list was one of "bad
> sites", they also had not read the information about the list,
> which has been widely discussed on a number of mailing lists
> relating to library technology, as well as being explicitly
> stated on the website.  As I'm sure you realize, what is "bad"
> is in the eye of the beholder.  Some libraries block pornography,
> some block KKK materials, some block stock quotes, and so
> forth, just as do many companies to keep the employees from
> spending all day checking stocks or football pools.  My employer
> blocks email, chat, and game playing, but does not block
> anything by subject matter.  Nothing is blocked but those three
> functions, regardless of whether those functions relate to God,
> Country, pornography, sports, or any other topic.
>
> Also, you should be aware that under new federal laws libraries
> are required to block certain sites.  At the moment that doesn't
> appear to include email sites or chat sites, but libraries
> certainly have the legal right to block any and all sites that
> don't relate to their mission and goals, as approved by their
> appropriate governing authorities.  Many libraries don't allow
> use by those that haven't paid taxes in their communities,
> haven't enrolled in their college, and so forth.  Others restrict
> certain types of behavior, such as not permitting cell phones to
> be used.  And, of course, all sorts of behaviors that are
> detrimental to the majority of users are forbidden. In some
> libraries that includes use of chat or email. In others that
> means a limit of fifteen minutes per user on the computers.
> Anyone who can't use email in a library always has other
> alternatives.  No one has a constitutional or other right to use
> email or chat in libraries.
>
> Finally, please remember that ONLY the mail.csimo.com name was
> blocked.  Users could still purchase computers and do other things
> with you.  Thus, any loss of sales or other income is highly unlikely.
>
> Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions. Your
> domain's mail server will be removed from the list on Monday.
>
> dan
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
> Reply-To: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:40:02 -0500
>
> >Dear Mr. Lester,
>
> NO, that is not satisfactory at all.  On June 28th we were notified that
our
> mail server was blocked in a public library in Bismarck, ND.  That library
> has informed us that this block was due to your list, and further notified
> us that they believed only "bad" sites were on this list.  They have no
> specific policy against web mail services.
>
> That one single "block" directly caused by you resulted in many thousands
of
> dollars of damage to our company.  We believe there are significant
> additional damages caused by you that we have not yet discovered.  We
> consider your inclusion of our server on your list as damage in itself as
> you have no authority to include or use our domain name in any way.  As a
> matter of fact we have specifically denied your use of our domain name in
> any way, and you should consider this and our previous message as a demand
> to Cease and Desist.
>
> There are over 165,000 known mail servers that provide web mail access.
You
> apparently do not list even a tiny fraction of those servers, so the
purpose
> of your list cannot be as you claim.  Regardless, your choice to not
include
> many of the huge web mail services, and to include our small private
server
> is clear evidence of your intent to cause damage to CompuSystems, Inc.
>
> Sir, this is not a joke.  What makes you believe you have authority to
make
> such a list?  You have been specifically notified that you have no
authority
> to publish our domain name in any way.  It may be of interest to you to
> examine what happened to the ORBS organization (http://www.orbs.org) after
> they attempted to publish a list similar to your actions.
>
> Since you apparently do not intend to cooperate we have no option other
than
> to take legal action against you, and I am authorizing our legal
department
> to take such action.  We will additionally investigate to determine if
your
> actions were all or in part as a result of your employment with the Boise
> State University for possible inclusion in such legal action.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joe Wolf, President
> CompuSystems, Inc.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dan" <dan at riverofdata.com>
> To: <webmaster at csimo.com>; <abuse at adaptive.net>; <dan at riverofdata.com>;
> <legal at csimo.com>; <hostmaster at adaptive.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Complaint againt your customer...
>
>
> > There is an apparent misunderstanding.  The blacklist, as explained in
the
> introductory text, is not for any purpose except use by libraries to
> prohibit access to web based email.  Many libraries, particularly academic
> libraries, do not permit students to access web email from the library, as
> it ties up the computers from use for research.  That means that NO email
is
> permitted, whether from adaptive.net, yourmail.com, yahoomail, religious
> email, porn email, or any other type.
> >
> > Absolutely NOTHING is being said against any company or email provider.
> For that matter, we block email hosted by the Boise State University, my
> employer.
> >
> > I trust that this explanation, plus, perhaps, a review of the
explanation
> provided on the website, will make this clear that there is no harm to
> anyone on the list.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Dan Lester
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > From: <hostmaster at adaptive.net>
> > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:52:55 -0400
> >
> > >Dan at riverofdata.com,
> >
> > Please reply to this situation.  Please keep all recipients informed.
We
> do
> > not wish to get involved in disputes or act as a liaison for arguments.
> If
> > this is a legal matter, either party should forward all documentation
and
> > filings to Adaptive.net, 512 S Washington, Royal Oak MI 48067
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
> > To: <hostmaster at ADAPTIVE.NET>; <abuse at adaptive.net>;
> <dan at riverofdata.com>;
> > <legal at csimo.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 10:35 PM
> > Subject: Complaint againt your customer...
> >
> >
> > Dear Hostmaster at Adaptive.net:
> >
> > Below you will find a copy of a message we sent to one of your
customers.
> > Your company apparently provides web hosting services for Mr. Dan Lester
> and
> > his site www.riverofdata.com
> >
> > Mr. Lester is publishing slanderous and derogatory information regarding
> our
> > corporation and a mail server on one of our domains.  We consider this
> > situation very serious, and ask that you immediately investigate this
> > situation and remove his site from your service until this matter is
> > resolved.
> >
> > Additionally we will ask ICANN to remove all entries for riverofdata.com
> > from the Root DNS servers.
> >
> > We understand that you may not have been aware of this information Mr.
Dan
> > Lester has been providing via your service, and we will greatly
appreciate
> > your cooperation.
> >
> > If you knowingly continue to allow such information to be distributed we
> > will have no choice but to consider you a willing party to the actions
of
> > Mr. Dan Lester.
> >
> > Thank you for your time and consideration regarding this serious matter.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Joe Wolf, President
> > CompuSystems, Inc
> > 1035 Washington Sq.
> > Washington, MO  63090
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: CompuSystems / Joe Wolf
> > To: dan at riverofdata.com
> > Cc: legal at csimo.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 9:20 PM
> > Subject: Why on list?
> >
> >
> > ATTN: Mr.Dan Lester
> >     3577 East Pecan
> >     Boise, ID 83716-7115
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Lester:
> >
> > You have one of our mail servers on your list, and I'd like to know why!
> > The server is mail.csimo.com and is used by our employees all over the
> > world.  We have been informed that you have listed this server for some
> > reason, and it has caused inconvenience to our employees and customers.
> > This is a private server, and is not open to the public.  We do not
allow
> > any type of relay.  There is no "adult" content on our site, and we do
not
> > allow spam to be sent from our servers.
> >
> > I respectfully request that you remove mail.csimo.com from your list
> > immediately.  A letter of apology would be a good gesture on your part.
> >
> > We will be forced to take additional action if your error is not
corrected
> > within 10 days, and we sincerely hope that will not be necessary, but we
> > will not hesitate.  Remove mail.csimo.com from you list today!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Joe Wolf, President
> > CompuSystems, Inc.
> > 1035 Washington Sq.
> > Washington, MO  63090
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ===8<===========End of original message text===========
>
>
> --
> Dan Lester, Data Wrangler  dan at RiverOfData.com
> 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho  83716-7115 USA
> www.riverofdata.com  www.postcard.org  www.gailndan.com
>
>