[WEB4LIB] Blocking participants forever, or for a time and then reinstate.

[Dan Lester]

At 07:19 PM 3/5/99 -0800, Don Saklad wrote:
>I think a list server forum owner has the right to even be arbitrary
>and block people, but that does not mean it is fair and done with
>anything resembling due process.
Due process has nothing to do with it.  It isn't required or even to be 
expected.  Most list owners will give warnings for most infractions, but 
nothing requires them to.  Just as the only true freedom of the press 
belongs to s/he who owns one, freedom of a mailing list belongs to the 
owner.  Period.  The end.

>1. For how long are you blocked from the public forum in which you
>were participating?
I've never been blocked.  In nine years of owning a dozen lists (all open 
to the public at a public university).   I've blocked a total of eight or 
nine people out of an average membership of those lists in the area of 
6,000 total among the lists.  Of course some other owners may have 
different rules or policies.  And, I've never blocked anyone without a 
warning.  If someone doesn't like a list they're on, they're always welcome 
to start their own list.  This has happened in many areas....granola being 
a particularly good example.

>2. Will it be forever?
If I can you it is forever.  But, I've never been asked to reconsider, 
either.

>3. How can you ever be reinstated as a participant?
You can't as far as I'm concerned.

>4. Would another participant post your writing for you?
It happens.  Those people would also get a warning if they did so, and 
dumped if they continued.  Also a couple of folks have tried to return as 
someone else from hotmail, yahoomail, or similar free email sites.  That is 
easily controlled by setting all new members to "review" status until 
they've made a couple posts that are "according to the rules".  This isn't 
even much of a hassle to the listowner, as less than twenty percent EVER 
post to a list.

>How ironic for librarians to be so narrowminded about ad hominem
>argument. There are ways to reply to ad hominem arguments. People who
>contrive complaints are not necessarily on a higher road to in
>attempting to squelch another participant.

I'm not talking about any particular behavior.  What will get you canned 
from one of my lists?  Posting things that are generally offensive...after 
one or more warnings.  Making personal arguments public....again after 
warning(s).  Spamming (warning may or may not be given).

>People who contrive complaints are not necessarily on any higher road
>in attempting to squelch another participant. It could be argued that
>squelching drives eager participants underground and removes them from
>a socialization process through which their disagreeable point of view

If adults can't learn pretty darn quickly, then they're out of luck, I 
guess. Same can happen at a job.  How often can you insult or cuss out your 
boss and keep the job?  More than one?  Not likely.

>Moderators have blocked me on libref-l and bit.listserv.libref-l
>[http://listserv.kent.edu/archives/libref-l.html]
>
>Attempts to obtain reasonable replies about the circumstances have not
>been answered substantively.
So?  Give it up.  They have no obligation to do so, particularly if they've 
warned you before dumping you.

>Consider that in the case of libref-l, its list server is from a
>public university and the particular forum is represented to be
>public.
So?   Do you think that University of Illinois Press will automatically 
publish any trash you send in?  Not likely.  And choose other examples of 
your own.  See first comment above about freedom of the press.....

>I think included in the notions about library philosophy are ideas of
>being relatively open. Look at the library bill of rights.
Sure, relatively.  But there are limits in the library, both on 
collections, and on patron behavior.

>I am interested in under what conditions I could be reinstated and
>your thoughts on whether the other Web4Lib participant could ever be
>reinstated after a time of expulsion?
That is COMPLETELY up to the list owner.  Period.  The end.

>In the case of any misunderstanding, expulsion for a time and later
>reinstatement would rectify things after the time period elapsed and
>still provide the sweet revenge some who were offended desired.
Well, maybe you should consider that you got a murder sentence.....twenty 
to life.  Try for parole when the twenty years is up.

>Would any of you folks consider forwarding along this send to alaoif ?

I would if there were any reason to.  ALA's OIF doesn't say that every 
library should have every book and let every idiot do anything they want to 
in the library.  And, there is a "Library Bill of Rights," not a "Library 
Bill of Anarchy."  And I don't care where you or anyone else forward 
this.  I'll stand behind ANYTHING I ever post to a list.

I'm not at all sure this is particularly relevant to this list, so I'd 
prefer that replies or continued discussion be sent to me personally.

cheers

dan

--
Dan Lester, 3577 East Pecan, Boise, ID 83716-7115 USA 208-383-0165
dan at 84.com   http://www.84.com/  http://www.idaholibraries.org/
http://library.boisestate.edu/   http://cyclops.boisestate.edu/
http://www.lili.org/  http://www.postcard.org/  http://www.homesight.org/