Response to comments

[Jeff Bobicki]

Hi Roy 

In response to your veiled denouncement of  Bob Cherry, he is one of the
most knowledgeble network guys on the planet. He has also given lots and
lots of time to Libraries for free. Including a couple of weeks of hard
core development time to Librowse. Without his effort, Librowse would not
exist.

Bob will be joining me by invitation at the Colorado Library Association
this fall where we will be addressing Librarians in sessions about technology.

Best Regards,

Jeff Bobicki      

At 11:51 AM 5/16/98 -0700, Roy Tennant wrote:
>Wow! There is so much here to on which I want to comment that I don't know
>where to start, so I won't. What I *will* do is give my standard advice
>whenever someone starts giving a lot of markup and site management advice.
>Since there are many differences of opinion on this activity, as there are
>in almost any field of endeavor, it's a good idea to go look at the site
>of the person giving you the advice (such as http://www.banjo.com/ in this
>case). If the site reflects what you believe to be good practice, then pay
>attention to the advice. If it doesn't, then don't. This can be a highly
>personal thing, as we know from the diversity of sites out there. So judge
>for yourself. Thanks,
>Roy
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:44:01 -0700
>From: Bob Cherry <cherry at banjo.com>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <web4lib at library.berkeley.edu>
>Subject: Response to comments
>
>I've been reading the current commentary and have been somewhat interested
>in the dialog on CSS (Style Sheets), ADA guidelines, site management use
>of frames and broken links. 
>
>I'd like to share some of my experiences with you so hopefully you'll
>benefit from my learning -- most of which was by making mistakes:)  Your
>web pages should be fun and fresh and entertaining.  Guidelines and such
>actually limit you and do not allow for creative expression. 
>
>One soon realizes that they cannot control all of the users and browsers
>in the market.  Everything from Lynx (totally text based) to the latest
>MSIE4 and Netscape Communicator 4.x, must be capable of reading your web
>site or you tune out readers.  The basic rule of any web site is to keep
>it simple if you want everybody to be able to view or read it.  Plug ins,
>special features etc. always eliminate somebody on the outside from seeing
>the inside. 
>
>Style Sheets -- Drop them like a hot rock.  There is a better and more
>universal approach which achieves the same thing and will work with any
>browser.  The concept of template files.  These are basic blank HTML files
>which you insert your content into.  They have already defined the
>background, horizontal graphics, fonts, etc.  These will allow you to
>quickly add pages and maintain a consistent look and feel to every page on
>your site.  It makes your site have a unique style and identity.  I use
>these on my web site and its clearly evident as I have over 500 HTML pages
>and they all have a consistent look and feel.  It also speeds up the
>addition of new pages. 
>
>
>You need a set of graphics you'll always use and maybe even a background
>image.  Make sure you always put in alternate text for every graphic. 
>
>As for <CITE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <STRONG> etc., not every browser treats these
>uniquely and some don't do anything with these tags.  They will become
>more predominant in the future but not right now.  Check out
>http://www.htmlgoodies.com/html_ref.html for what to use and not use. 
>This is an excellent reference for HTML. 
>
>One last comment, if you're going to teach CSS and think that you want to
>support it, teach it now so that content creators will be ready for it
>when its reach constitutes a significant market share.  Don't try and play
>catchup. 
>
>ADA Guidelines -- Set your own standards!  Web sites which are unique and
>have a fresh appearance will keep your patrons coming back.  If they all
>look the same and act the same, they become boring.  Every book, article,
>and document on successful web sites recommends avoiding global
>guidelines. 
>
>
>If libraries come up with standards and guidelines for web sites, they
>should consider that each library may have a unique target audience
>(legal, medical, public, K12, educational, etc.) and their pages should
>reflect their purpose. 
>
>For accessibility, use Bobby as was mentioned earlier.  This is a great
>package and it isn't that difficult to make your pages compliant.  One
>area I've had a great deal of difficulty with is forms and CGI.  Packages
>like Bobby don't work with these very well. 
>
>Fonts (Funky Old Nasty Things) -- Try and stick with browser standard
>fonts.  If the reader doesn't have the specific font on their system, it
>won't display properly.  HTML is a markup language and not a Page
>Description Language like Postscript, Interpress, etc.  The user may
>define the look and feel of their environment and if they are visually
>impaired, your changing of fonts may make your pages hard to read. 
>
>
>I believe its OK to change font sizes but try and avoid changing the
>family (font name) of the font.  If you want expression, make and create a
>graphic instead (remember the alternate text) and use that.  This way, the
>reader doesn't require the font on their system and you don't need to
>include it with the document page. 
>
>Broken Links and Roving Sites -- These are a royal pain for any web site
>which has links to other sites.  It also teaches you that if you want to
>be found, don't move :)  Often a site keeps moving or changing its URL so
>that one needs to constantly spend time and resources updating links.  It
>isn't your fault but rather, the fault of those who keep changing.  I have
>a rule on my site that if a site moves twice in one year, its history as
>far as links are concerned.  I drop quite a few every month but, I also
>add new ones.  This is both beneficial and detrimental but, it helps keep
>the site accurate and less of a site management nightmare. 
>
>Alas, managing broken links is made easy by various site management aids
>such as LinkBot, Crystal Site Updater, HoTMetaL Pro's site manager and
>many others.  These all basically do the same thing... They verify your
>links directly through the web.  I highly recommend them! 
>
>Finding Your Site and Search Engines -- A whole document could be written
>about this subject but alas, there are basically three things to consider
>for making your web site aware to search engines. 
>
>1.  Register them.  Use tools like www.submit-it.com and the home page
>"add URL" function on the main search engines. 
>
>2.  Use META tags to define your content.
>
>3.  Maintain two text files in your root directory:
>    a.  robots.txt
>    b.  site.idx
>
>These will all aid your site and will automatically manage your updates
>for you.  A real treat.  Note that CGI pages are never indexed however
>ISINDEX pages can be.  Something to consider when planning your site.  The
>web has all the info you need on these and some is referenced by the above
>URL. 
>
>Page Layout -- Although High Resolution displays are used almost
>universally today, most folks still run them at low resolution.  Thus,
>every web page should be viewable on a 640 x 480 display.  Dumb, yes but,
>its a necessity.  So, what you want to do is define some site limits. 
>Tables and graphics (horizontal lines, etc.) should be limited to 580
>pixels wide.  I use 540 so things look centered nicely but 580 is a good
>hard limit.  Limit the vertical to 360 pixels since browsers may have rows
>of menu buttons on them.  If it looks nice there, any size will look nice
>if its planned out properly. 
>
>
>Frames -- I had them and spent so much time reading complaint mail that
>they are now history.  I haven't had frames on my pages in over 2 years. 
>I don't miss them nor their management and I find that I can do everything
>I want without them.  I prefer script (vbscript, javascript, etc.) or CGI
>which is mostly written in Perl.  Invisible Tables are a great alternative
>also and allow a lot of flexibility in placing objects on your pages.  Try
>it as they are very low overhead and give a lot of flexibility. 
>
>Web Activity and Usage -- Analog is a good program and is easily
>customized.  You may make it look unique very easily so that it matches
>your site's look and feel.  Just a few minor edits to the code and maybe
>changing the graphics will do it.  Track only what's important to you. 
>You don't have to graph everything.  On a site like mine that gets 30,000
>hits a day, you need to conserve CPU time in generating these.  Keep them
>around monthly, quarterly or annually.  Print them out before you clear
>your logs. 
>
>
>There are other tools out there which are also great at trending reports
>and usage statistics.  WebTrends and similar packages can help you out but
>they aren't free like Analog.  I use different tools for different jobs
>but, you'll soon find out what you need and don't need.  Play with it and
>don't be afraid to change things. 
>
>Final Comments -- HTML Editor Packages.  There are many of these and I've
>found that SoftQuad's HoTMetaL Pro 4 is a good buy.  It includes Bobby,
>Graphics tools, HTML Validation, the ability to import various file
>formats and fully supports templates.  There are a lot of other perks with
>it also.  FrontPage is also common but it doesn't generate as good of HTML
>as does HoTMetaL Pro.  Some editors fill up your pages with &nbsp;
>characters and garbage; don't end list items </LI> or paragraphs </P> and
>allow illegal nesting of tags.  Beware of these! 
>
>Browsers.  Basically there are three that your pages must work with...
>  a.  Netscape
>  b.  MS Internet Explorer
>  c.  Opera
>
>If your pages look good with ALL of these, then they work and should keep
>your readers happy. 
>
>Copyright Infringement is one area that really bugs me.  I spend a great
>deal of time and money (software purchases) to keep my sites graphics
>unique and pleasing.  I often find other site using my graphics and audio
>files (midi) and that isn't right.  Take the time to build your own and
>don't go and copy them from somebody elses site.  Sure its easy but, it
>isn't right. 
>
>Last of all, HAVE FUN!  Creating web sites is a LOT of FUN and allows
>anybody to be creative and to express their purpose or ideas.  Try and not
>fall into canned or predefined rules as they will limit you in trying to
>achieve what you want to do.  My site breaks almost all the rules but,
>over time, I've figured out what I can and cannot get away with.  My home
>page is almost totally graphical and uses a CGI based menu to navigate
>around in it.  Probably not a good idea to start with but, in my case and
>with my audience, it works. 
>  
>I'm a webmaster for numerous Global Fortune 1000 corporations,
>www.banjo.com, and numerous others, I'd like to share some of my
>experience with all of this.  I have also been a worldwide network
>consultant and am currently working for one of America's biggest network
>service providers.  My web site was the 7th ever in the world.  This stuff
>isn't new to me.  I was also co-author of Librowse, a free web browser
>designed totally for libraries.  So, if you got this far and want to see
>my site, its at http://www.banjo.com and is a bluegrass music site. 
>
>
>Thanks for your time.
>Bob Cherry
>Internet and Networking Consultant
>
>
>
----------------------------------------