Griping about Microsoft IE4 -Reply -Reply

[Dan Lester]

A VERY brief comment.....and guaranteed to be my last. 
Others are welcome to the "last word" if they need it.

    dan

>>> CMUNSON <CMUNSON at aaas.org> 07/21/97 12:08pm
>>>
 
>NO FLAMES follow, though some common sense 
>does.....and perhaps a touch of sarcasm.  
>o-)

Apparently some have difficulty telling a bit of sarcasm from
flames, even when the "sarcasm alert" has been announced
in advance.  For those who took sarcasm as personal
attacks, I'm sorry they did so, as by my definition there were
NO flames in the msg under discussion.  Nothing personal,
nothing at one individual, nothing rude or offensive, etc, etc.   
 =============  
 Appeals to common sense are not a very good debate tactic,
cyclops! We obviously look at the world differently.
 ----------------
I'm sure we do.  And it is indeed sad that common sense isn't
very common any more.  (don't know original source....leave
that to librarians with quotation resources )    
==========     
Anyone who follows the computer industry can see that
Microsoft is a  monopoly 
---------------
My dictionary says monopoly is "exclusive control of a
product or a service in a particular market" and that just
doesn't fit MS and their position.  Pre breakup ATT, yes.  MS
no, and not in the foreseeable future.
===============
     Isn't Microsoft the biggest computer company around?
-----------------
Probably, if you consider them a computer company, which I
don't.  They ARE the leading software vendor in the country. 
But either way, largest (and all the other comments that
followed that line) make it largest, but NOT a monopoly. 
Misusing monopoly is as bad as one of my pet peeves,
people who say "more unique" or "most unique", which
simply can't be done.
===========
the word processing, spreadsheet, and database markets is
over, with Microsoft being the clear winner? 
-----------------
Maybe....but I doubt you'ld hear agreement from Lotus, Corel
(WordPerf), and many others......including all those that
produce software for Apple, U**x, etc.
====================
 DUH. That's how capitalism works Cyclops, but some of us
want a different way. 
--------------
To each his/her own, I guess.  But my general suggestion is
that those who don't agree with capitalism might SERIOUSLY
consider moving to a non-capitalistic country (and there aren't
a lot of them left now) rather than wasting their life tilting at
windmills.
==================
 Microsoft is trying to corner the market 
     on "online city guides," which if you ask me doesn't 
     seem to be a very profitable market.
---------------
True enough.  If they lose bucks on this will you be happier? 
No one picks all the right horses....just look at MSN, for
example.    
===============
I do. My artist friends are concerned. Bettman is the tip of 
the iceberg. Microsoft wants to create a vast archive of 
digitized images and some of them will be public domain. 
Guess what, Microsoft is going to charge for everything, even 
the public domain stuff.
-------------
Again, nothing new.  Images have always been paid for.  And,
I find it ironic that artists want people to pay for THEIR
images, but don't want to pay for using anyone else's. 
Strange indeed.  
 ================
For those who asked, there are NO .gifs or .jpgs of me in my
spiffy new Microsoft Underwear.  Will you settle for my
web/rodeo hat?  Or my Crucial Technology hat I'm wearing
today?  
=================
 It's probably small potatoes compared to how they dominate
other markets, but these practices [buttons on web pages]
are obviously an attempt to emulate Nike's marketing
success. Get that logo everywhere and get the poor saps to
pay the company for the honor of advertising their product.
--------------
yup....but I don't wear Nikes...nothing but New Balance.  And
I don't wear any clothes that have the labels on the outside.  I
don't leave the price tags on my sneakers, either.  But I've
long since given up trying to change the whole damn world,
including whatever every goofy teenager does.  Yeah, I'll
confess to having once owned a leisure suit.  And as a
teenager I had my hair in a DA like Elvis did.  But I've grown
up since then.  Since half the folks on the net are WAY
young, none of this is surprising.   
============
Why do people put those damn IE and Netscape buttons on
their pages? 
-------------------
Don't know.  You'll have to ask them.
===============
Duh, i understand marketing. I'm trying to point out what 
Microsoft is doing (which is similar to other companies) so 
that people will THINK about these things. The point isn't 
that Microsoft is an exception to the rule, the point is too 
look at them critically.
-----------
There are always a few that will look at them, but the vast
majority won't....no matter how much ANY of us rant about it.
 This is the real world.
==============
Political correctness? Whatever. Aha. In this paragraph 
you are showing some critical thinking about Microsoft! 
WebTV. We haven't even mentioned that one. 
--------------
As far as I've heard, WebTV is Magnavox and partners, not
MS at all.  So maybe we shouldn't mention it.  Of course they
may wish they thought of it and controlled it.  If you want to
get into heavy worrying, worry about the
Gates/McCaw/Boeing plan to put ups over 500 cellular
satellites and take over communications (at least the wireless
kind) in the world.  
===============
 There is no method to hold these companies accountable,
especially by the communities that are affected by them. 
---------
Antitrust laws are a good start.  If that needs changing, talk
to your congressperson.  
================
And if you want to wave off this concern, I suggest that you
go to some small town and talk to some unemployed folks 
devastated by the globalization of the economy. 
------------------
Well, if we want to worry about all the poor folks in the world,
then we might see the good side of making stuff in Malaysia
and Taiwan and China and lots of other places.  Of course we
could just pull back and do it all in the USA.  Anything that
helps someone is likely to hurt someone else.  And, yes,
here in Idaho we're learning the problems of losing major
industries like mining and forestry because of a few fish or
treehuggers.  Don't whine to us when your lumber for your
kid's playhouse costs triple what it does now.  Or your paper
for your "paperless office" costs twice as much.  Feel free to
use salmon or snake river snails for either of those.  
===================
 This is a personal attack and not something that has to do
with my arguments. If this post had simply disagreed with my
arguments, i wouldn't have responded.
-------------------
Nope.  Not personal.  There are many who think as you do. 
That's fine.  I'd NEVER argue with your right to say, speak,
email, march, protest, etc., in whatever way you wish. 
NEVER.  And to those with defective sarcasm detectors,
hope you get them fixed so they don't confuse sarcasm and
flames.
=============
 but you can at least TRY to interact with them. It's better
than throwing our hands up and saying "that's the way the
world is, I can't change it."
----------------
Fine.  I'd NEVER discourage anyone doing that, for whatever
cause or other thing they wanted changed.  Some of us
cynical old farts, who spent years doing that in the past 30 or
more, have decided that it isn't worth it TO US.  But I'd never
try to stop you.  Have at it.  Live and learn.  
================     
  I find that offensive and intellectually dishonest.
 ------------
If I've said anything that offended you, or others, my sincerest
apologies.  But I don't think I said anything personal directed
at any one person.  If I did have a personal message for
someone, I'd send it personally, and NOT via the list.  

I'm certainly not saying that older folks have all the answers,
myself included.  But I've learned in raising three kids (all
adults now) that there are a LOT of things that folks have to
learn for themselves, because NONE of us will listen to those
who've gone before.  I guess it is just the way people do
things.  My kids have had to learn some of these things the
hard way too.  And I've learned many things that I could have
avoided if I'd been smart enough to listen to advice instead of
doing my own damn thing.  And, no, I don't think I can save
everyone on that subject either.  

cheers

cyclops, who will say no more on this thread