Anatomy Of A Netscam - Reply To Lester -Reply

[Dan Lester]

>>> Bill Quimby, ICS, ext. 5696 <quimby at kenyon.edu>
07/08/96 05:04pm >>>
     Dan, I have always enjoyed your pragmatic approach to
library and
Internet information issues, but...

     I view the issue as one of the potential for dollar pursuit
(and probably survival as the "market" shakes out) leading to
significant betrayals of privacy. I am not aware of ANY
guarantees or committments  from any of the existing index
services that the interests of users  will not be resold to
others who would attempt to capitalize from the  knowledge
of those interests. 
---------------------
It seems to me that the above switches us to a different
branch of the "information superhighway" (I had to suppress
my gag reflex to even type the quoted words).  Nothing I've
read in this thread previously addressed privacy issues, at
least as I read the messages.  I'm not denying that privacy
may be an issue on the Internet, but I don't think that it is in
this case.  

Could Yahoo keep track of the fact that I've looked at some
sites under their "Business: Companies: Sex:" hierarchy? 
Sure, but so what?  They even know that the machine at
132.178.18.4 did that.  On that particular machine (sitting in
front of me) they can even do a reverse lookup and learn that
it is also cyclops.idbsu.edu.  In that particular case, they
could then find my web server and know "who" looked at
those dirty sites.  Big deal.  

However, of over 100 internet connected computers here in
our library, only a half dozen are named, and run as servers. 
The rest simply have ip numbers (and those soon will be
dynamically assigned instead of static) and there is no way
for someone to know that Joe Blow or Susie Smith did the
search, even with static ip numbers.  When you further
compound that by the fact that many machines are available
to anyone who walks in the door, or the fact that most
slip/ppp dialup services also dynamically assign ip numbers
to most callers, and it seems you have a non-problem.  

Now if I sign up to Dirty Dave's Dirty Digital Dump and give
them my credit card info and such, that is potentially a
privacy concern.  But, no one is making me sign up with
Dave, and if I've half a brain I'm aware of the fact that I may
have information used in various ways, just as someone may
see me walk into Dirty Dave's storefront if he has one.  
===================
Yes, indeed, in many areas of life this  reselling is a fact of
life - but at least in those areas there is (or at  least now after
the passage of state and federal laws) some sort of  warning
expected, and some sort (as in the case of junk mail) of
channel  permitting the individual to block continued
infringement.
-------------------------------
Yes, there is lots of reselling of information.  Always has
been, always will be.  I realize that lots of librarians and Unix
geeks are of the "information wants to be free" school, but I'm
afraid that they're tilting at windmills. Just look at all the sites
that have "phone book" information on the web, and all the
sites that have even more information for sale instead of
publicly displaying it for us to search and/or download. 
============================
     I think it appropriate for the Internet community, and the
library  community both as an important part of the total
Internet community and as a social entity that has created,
voluntarily, excellent standards for the protection of the
privacy of information-seekers, to step in and remind  these
----------------------
Well, I've heard this speech since my first library science
course in 1963, and DO fully respect the privacy of
individuals, but also realize that there are many differences
between platitudes and reality.  I guess I'm at the point where
I believe that there is probably nothing about you and your
habits that isn't already known by those who want to know
(or could be if your habits were interesting enough, this
determined by not only your habits but also the size of your
wallet).  So, getting excited about it on the Internet just isn't
a big issue to me.  

Internet privacy is also a nonissue to me since I KNOW that
anybody from my sister to my boss to the FBI can search to
see what I've posted in all sorts of "interesting places".  I also
know enough to NEVER assume that even personal email is
private.  If I won't stand behind it, I'll NEVER post it, privately
or otherwise.  And of course I'd recommend the same to
others.  There just aren't any secrets any more.
===================
young gentle-people (perhaps overcome by their success?)
that they are  now occupying an incredibly important position
in a very tender democracy,  and that we strongly need their
affirmation that they understand what privacy rights are and
that they will protect those rights.
----------------------
Once again, the internet is not, and never has been, a
democracy.  In the beginning people got net access by being
in research, being computer scientists, being in military
work.  Now it is available to those who have good enough
jobs to get it at work. It is also available to those who can
afford to go to college.  And, of course those who can afford
to pay cash money to an ISP, and have their own computer,
can get net access.  See a common thread?  Of course, just
like the TV, the telephone, or even a home, you have to be
able to PAY for it.  And, try to find an ISP that will even take
cash money instead of a credit card number for an account. 
A colleague who has no credit cards finally found a small
local ISP that will give her an account...which she could get
by paying six months in advance.  Of course it will be
interesting to see if the ISP survives that long.  
================== 
Otherwise they  must at least be persuaded to present a
warning to the user (but of course  in Java) explaining that
her/his interests may be captured and manipulated for profit.
-------------------------
When you get a mailing from your record club, or send in a
warranty on a product, they often ask you various "lifestyle"
questions "so they can serve you better".  Some don't
answer them.  Some do.  (I usually do, depending on my
mood).  Did THEY tell you that this is target marketing info
that you just contributed and that it will help them serve you
better by selling that information as well?  Of course not. 
They aren't doing anything illegal, as you provided information
voluntarily, just as you do on any web site I've ever seen.  

dan


Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator
Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA
voice: 208-385-1235   fax:  208-385-1394
dlester at bsu.idbsu.edu     OR    alileste at idbsu.idbsu.edu
Cyclops' Internet Toolbox:    http://cyclops.idbsu.edu
"How can one fool make another wise?"   Kansas, 1979.