[Web4lib] RE: Amazon Deletes Orwell from Kindles (UNCLASSIFIED)

Wed Jul 22 00:03:41 EDT 2009

This particular direction of the discussion is really important in several
ways.  I don't happen to know if Kindle's electronic access extends to
Australia, but suppose for the sake of discussion that it does.  Now...
Suppose I am from Australia and I turn on my Kindle and get my copy of
Orwell's works while still in Australia. Did Amazon delete my copy too?  Did
they delete it once I came within range of their US network?  Should they
have?   What if I am from Australia and happen to receive my copy of Animal
Farm while visiting the U.S.?  In this latter case it is easy to invent
arguments that the US is the point of sale and thus subject to US copyright
laws.  However, all this begs the general question of where the point of
sale is deemed to be and how jurisdiction is determined.  If I am on a
cruise ship in International waters (and my cruise ship is equipped somehow
-- and it could be even if this is not now available) to update my Kindle
...  then how is jurisdiction determined?
What this points out is that in the modern world there are intractable
conflicts between reality and idealized notions of enforceability of private
rights.  It has never been more important than it is right now to champion
the notion that information and ideas must end up in the public domain in
reasonable time in order for freedom and democracy to flourish -- but also
even to promote brisk innovation!  As some here have pointed out, current
patent and copyright laws arguably stifle innovation as much as they promote
it. And by the way, if you follow patent developments you know that this is
under review in light of the Bilski case (did I remember the spelling
correctly) which was, last I checked, on track to be reviewed by the Supreme
Court.

I agree completely, by the way, that the copyright law which extends
copyright protection to estate beneficiaries is incredibly stupid and
counterproductive -- be sure to thank your elected official of the past who
made this happen.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Hill, Holly K Ms CIV USA IMCOM <
holly.k.hill at us.army.mil> wrote:

> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> Ah, book revisions. Read
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/opinion/20hotchner.html?em  about a
> 'new edition' of Hemingway's A Moveable Feast, 'edited' by a Hemingway
> scion. Fascinating stuff.
>
> Holly Hill
> holly.k.hill at us.army.mil
> Barr Memorial Library; Directorate of Family, Morale, Welfare, and
> Recreation
> Fort Knox, KY     502-624-5351
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
> [mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sharon Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:28 PM
> To: web4lib at webjunction.org
> Subject: [AKO Warning - Message fails DKIM verification] Re: [Web4lib]
> RE: Amazon Deletes Orwell from Kindles
>
> Making them all vanish would at least be noticeable. Changing a few
> words here and there---then we're getting into Winston Smith territory.
>
> Sharon M. Foster, JD, MLS
> Librarians bring order out of chaos.
> http://www.vsa-software.com/mlsportfolio/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Tim Spalding<tim at librarything.com>
> wrote:
> > Yes, the point isn't that they were legal-they were only legal in some
>
> > countries, not in others-the point is that buying a book that contains
>
> > a copyright violation does not, in the real world, entitle the
> > bookseller to enter your house and repossess the book, let alone take
> > and destroy the notes you took about the book.
> >
> > So, with respect, the problem isn't fact checking. The problem is the
> facts.
> >
> > The danger is that capabilities like this end up eroding our
> > expectations of book privacy. That expectation is a cultural thing,
> > built up over centuries and central to, well, western culture. It
> > doesn't extend past books as easily: Apple has used, a similar "kill
> > switch" on a number of apps it didn't like; but people don't have
> > quite the same expectations for an iPhone app., so the fuss was more
> > muted. If we let that sort of attitude take hold here, we may well
> > wake up in a world where where our books change and even vanish
> > without a trace, for any number of reasons.
> >
> > The ability to delete something at any time, and to go after the
> > reader, rather than the author and publisher, are new. Consider the US
>
> > justice system's strong bias against preliminary injunctions on
> > documents that end up being clear violations of one law or another.
> > Publishers and authors are responsible, but nobody destroys books
> > until the case is decided, and nobody goes out and collects all the
> > violating copies from innocent readers either. So, for example, when
> > Daniel Elsberg was indicted for leaking the Pentagon Papers, nobody
> > worried all the copies out there would suddenly vanish.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Amy Rogers<rogers.a at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >> For what it is worth, I came across this item the other day. Seemed
> >> that if some fact checking were done, there would not have been an
> outrage.
> >>
> >> "The two books in question were published for the Kindle by a company
>
> >> called Mobile Reference, which offers public domain books for around
> >> $1. Mobile Reference did not have the right to sell Orwell's novels
> >> because 1984 and Animal Farm are still under copyright protection in
> >> the United States. They were not legitimate or "perfectly legal"
> >> copies of the books, but rather illicit copies that should not have
> been sold in the first place.
> >> "Contrary to what the New York Times reported, the publisher did not
> >> change its mind, nor did Amazon cave to pressure. Rather, Amazon was
> >> notified that copyrighted material was being sold on the Amazon store
>
> >> without permission and it removed said material."
> >>
> >> More at http://bit.ly/hQDZQ
> >>
> >> "Media goes crazy over Amazon deleting '1984' from Kindle, but
> >> 99-cent ebook was illegal copy"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Web4lib mailing list
> >> Web4lib at webjunction.org
> >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Check out my library at
> > http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Web4lib mailing list
> > Web4lib at webjunction.org
> > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
> >
> >
>
>
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> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
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-- 
Steven E. Patamia, Ph.D., J.D.
Personal Cell: (352) 219-6592