[Web4lib] Demise of IT? Google Empire

[Frances, Melodie]

At the risk of taking these questions seriously ...

Melodie Morgan Frances
Head of Cataloging
Graduate Theological Union
mfrances at gtu.edu
510-649-2521

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Dan Lester
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 7:06 AM
To: Chris McQuade
Cc: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re[4]: [Web4lib] Demise of IT? Google Empire

Thursday, January 10, 2008, 6:43:33 PM, you wrote:

> a.) This is just another attempt at Google to rule the planet.
> Wait, doesn't Microsoft already rule the planet?

Yes, and almost.

Moi: on thing I love about the web is that all attempts to fully control
it are doomed ... lol - it has an anarchistic aspect to it that I think
will always be there

> b.) Doesn't this look like Google is becoming another Empire?

The same goal as any business.

MOI: the same goal as any BUSINESS - this is not necessarily a good or a
bad but it is also not the goal of many other organizational entities
and as such will always have challengers - and remember - ALL of those
business totally depend on good old fashioned cheap (or not so cheap)
education to work ...

> c.) I thought we as a culture ultimately do not like Empires?

Says who?  Remember, there are many advantages to a kingdom (poli sci
101)

> d.) What kind of Data mining, browsing history and personal content
will be tracked
> through 
> these systems?

Whatever type they want.  However, the university contract forbids
that.  And of course lots of that is possible anyway.

MOI: and I assume being done in all kinds of illegal ways already - but
again, remember, it can always be messed with and disrupted.

> e.) What kind of target marketing will they send us once they, (we all
know who they
> are)
> know where we eat, sleep, breath and study?

What's the problem with that?  Why should I care if someone knows what
toothpaste I use or what books I read?  Don't most people discuss that
kind of thing with friends and colleagues anyway?  Spam is a given, so
if the spam is at least for things I might be interested in, that's a
plus, isn't it?

MOI: I personally am already saturated with spam - I'm hoping / assuming
some of those brilliant business minds will some day figure out a more
selective and meaningful way to get our attention - but no spam is
definitely not a plus for many many many of us. 

> Granted, I'm just playing devil's advocate and may sound negative but
on the contrary
> fun personal relationships between users and I.T Dept. staff will be
affected by this
> paradigm shift.

Why?  You can have all sorts of "fun personal relationships" with
other than campus IT people, can't you?  At least if one has a life...

MOI: Having a life has nothing to do with it. Having actual human
interaction does. Ultimately I suppose the perk to farming everything
out is that the rest of us become obsolete and can therefore go and sit
in Hawaii all day - oops, someone still has to do the work (in fact
there's a good science fiction story in this but that's another story) -
but seriously, if one does not understand the value of being able to
talk to a human who understands the institutional history of a place
then this particular question won't even make sense.

On the other hand, I speak from experience when I say that the
relationships with IT folks aren't always necessarily fun or personal ;)

> If the current I.T. shop has a solid e-mail system and is providing
reliable
> calendaring services, why the need to go by new hammer?

Have you ever experienced GroupWise?  That's the first answer.  Second
and perhaps most important answer is cost.  If the google system will
save a million bucks (or a hundred grand, or whatever, depending on
local situation), that's certainly a factor to consider.

> How will the future libraries be affected by this when the full
> catalog moves to google?

MOI: they will lose everything local. I still haven't heard anyone speak
to this from a public library perspective, but from a special academic
perspective we would lose a LOT. We would lose all our local syndetic
structure, all our local description and all our local and special
collection stuff - serious for us, but maybe not for other libraries.

I WOULD REALLY LOVE IT IF THE LIBRARY WORLD WOULD FRICKING WAKE UP
AROUND THIS AND GET THAT GOOGLE AND AMAZON CAN TAKE ON THE LOAD OF
NON-SPECIAL BIBLIOGRAPHIC CONTROL WHICH WOULD THEN ALLOW US TO DEAL WITH
ALL THOSE SPECIAL COLLECTION BACK LOGS - WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO
GRASP?????????

> Will students and library goers use a computer terminal to go find a
book?

Don't the vast majority in the country do that already?  I know that's
been the only way to find a book in the Boise State Library since the
spring of 1990.  The card catalog went away in late 89, and the
microfiche catalog in spring of 90.  We certainly weren't anywhere
near the first in the country, either.

MOI: not sure I understand this question - I'm assuming you are asking
something other than what your question implies because as Dan points
out this has pretty much already happened.

> Maybe that would be easier, but how about that Library staffer?

What about the library staffer?  And what staffer?

MOI: don't understand this question either.

> Don't get me wrong, I already use the self-check out line at Home
Depot, maybe I won't
> do that anymore -- but wait I'm always in a hurry.

Why does self check make any difference?  They know your purchases
anyway, at least if you don't use cash.  And do you buy top secret
things at Home Depot?  Finally, I avoid self check lines, since
they're usually much slower (also in grocery stores) since some people
get confused, some things won't scan, etc, etc.

MOI: this seems like my bib control gripe - let the stuff that doesn't
need personal care be attended to by machines and let the people do the
stuff that always gets neglected cause they're dealing with the stuff
that can now be attended to by machines. Although as Dan points out the
self check lines aren't really there yet.

The truth is we still live in a messy human being world. I suspect we
will ALWAYS live in a messy human being world. If the machines get to a
point where they can handle that (and I suspect as soon as they do, the
messy humans will find either on purpose or through inertia or through
stupidity a way to mess that up) then we would all be free to just hang
out and do whatever (except of course those darn slaves who would have
to run everything, and I do say that with heavy sarcasm and disgust) -
on the other hand, we Americans in particular are very uncomfortable
with NOT working so I suspect that WE would come up with work to do. 

Computers are awesome and ridiculously good at doing repetitive tasks
with great speed - what a wonderful tool - like all tools they can be
used to make life better and used to make life worse - how THAT plays
out will once again depend on the human aspect of it, and as far as I
can tell, there ain't nothin' new under the sun in that regard ... and
how I got from IT departments being taken over by Google is beyond me
other than that I'm still trying to recover from the shock of coming
back to work after my holiday break lol!!!

Melodie


-- 
The road goes on forever and the party never ends.
Dan Lester, Boise, ID  


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