[Web4lib] Resources? -- Web Standards and Semantic Markup

[Tim Spalding]

Well, the antidote to my comments is that too many library OPACs
generate HTML that does not merely refuse to obey standards, but
flings down and dances upon them.

This isn't even a standards issue, but has anyone seen the (major)
OPAC that does bulleted lists in a table as

<tr><td><li>&nbsp;</li></td><td>This is the item</td></tr> ?

That is, using <li>&nbsp;</li> to "make" a bullet. Crazy.

Tim

On 5/1/07, Chris Gray <cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> I'm in hearty agreement with you on this, Tim.  The Champeon article is
> particularly good on how you can get it wrong despite complying with
> standards.  If good design were easy, everyone with a validator would be
> doing it.  The danger is in thinking you can get by without knowing what
> your doing by merely following the letter of standards and using
> "friendly" tools.
>
> "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to
> choose from."
>     Andrew S. Tanenbaum [If you don't believe him, look at
> <http://kensall.com/big-picture/bigpix22.html>.]
>
> Chris
>
> Tim Spalding wrote:
> > Without opening up a can of worms—one that's been opened before—I'd
> > encourage you to acquire competence (or excellence) in the field of
> > web design, and consider standards to be partially aligned with that,
> > but hardly the same thing.
> >
> > "Web standards" have, after all, no normative force. What we do is
> > judged by quality, cost and speed. The degree of importance some
> > ascribe to "web standards" can bear little relation to reality. For
> > example, the overwhelming majority of the top 100 trafficked sites on
> > the web do not validate—often not by a long shot—and not because
> > they're stupid. (Google's not stupid, at least.) And, in my humble
> > experience, "standards" language on a resume is like certifications,
> > at least irrelevant and often a contraindication of talent and
> > creativity.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Chris Gray <cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >> Another article worth reading is Steve Champeon's "The Secret Life of
> >> Markup".  He is another co-author of the book glasshaus book I mentioned
> >> in connection with Owen Briggs.
> >>
> >> "The idea of presentation, and its separation from content and the rest,
> >> is perhaps the most widely misunderstood but one of the most important
> >> ideas in Web and document design."
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Andrew Darby wrote:
> >> > There's oodles of information out there, but you could look at the Web
> >> > Standards site, and specifically the "Learn" section:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.webstandards.org/learn/
> >> >
> >> > It's not as fleshed out as one might like, but there's a set of FAQs
> >> > and numerous links under "External Resources."
> >> >
> >> > On 5/1/07, Jonathan Blackburn <jblackbu at mailer.fsu.edu> wrote:
> >> >> Hi Everybody,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I am a library web developer looking for suggestions for some solid
> >> >> "introductory" resources for learning about the importance AND use of
> >> >> web
> >> >> standards -- and specifically "semantic markup" --  in web design.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I am providing a GA here in the library w/ a list of resources to
> >> begin
> >> >> reading related to a project he will be working on this summer.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> (E.G. maybe, a set of intro sources he can review over about 8-12
> >> >> hours -
> >> >> along w/ some more permanent reference materials he can refer to over
> >> >> the
> >> >> course of the project.)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have some nice (preferably web-based) resources you would
> >> like to
> >> >> recommend, I would greatly appreciate it.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Jon :-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Jonathan Blackburn
> >> >>
> >> >> Web Development Librarian
> >> >>
> >> >> Florida State University Libraries
> >> >>
> >> >> AIM/E-mail: jblackbu at mailer.fsu.edu
> >> >>
> >> >> Phone: 850.645.6986
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Web4lib mailing list
> >> >> Web4lib at webjunction.org
> >> >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
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