[Web4lib] MS Windows Live Book Search

Tue Jun 13 14:18:22 EDT 2006

Granted the general issue of MS's me tooism, but remember that it's really
Amazon that got all this started with Search inside the book. Google jumped
in and had the useful idea of adding older free content as a lure to get
people to go to their under-copyright content. To my eye and experience they
also added a poorer and less reliable interface and database and still
haven't grasped the concept of multi-volume works, but then it is of course
still in beta.

And, though it pains me a bit to say this, all these projects are in some
sense riding on the coattails of Project Gutenberg. Which in turn probably
owes something to book series like Everyman's Library and so on back into
the ages.  Of coattails there is no end.

- Jim Campbell
Campbell at Virginia.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org 
> [mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of 
> Hankinson, Andrew
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:54 PM
> To: Web4Lib
> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] MS Windows Live Book Search
> 
> I do think competition is good, but it has to be good competition.
> Taking one company's idea and creating a knock-off of it, 
> however successful the knock-off is, shouldn't be mistaken 
> for competition.
> 
> Google had the guts to get the idea and the implementation 
> out there first, and then suddenly everyone wants to do this? 
>  That's not competition, that's riding coattails.
> 
> The only good example I can think to illustrate this is in 
> desktop environments for the 'Big Three:' Windows, Mac and 
> Linux. (obvious caveats about taking apples and comparing 
> them to oranges)
> 
> KDE, in a default install, is essentially a knock-off of 
> Windows.  It exists to not rock the boat and so Windows users 
> can use Linux with little transitory pains.  Everything from 
> the hierarchical ('Start') menu on the bottom left to the 
> task tray in the bottom right comes straight from Windows.
> 
> A Mac, on the other hand, does things differently** A menu 
> bar always at the top of the screen, a dock instead of a 
> taskbar, Apps-as-packages instead of 
> directory-with-executables models.
> 
> In my mind, KDE is a knock-off, OS X is a competitor.  It's 
> the same abstract task (a 'Graphical Interface'), but very 
> different approaches.
> Knock-offs are useful, and even in a lot of cases more 
> popular than the original, but they don't drive us forward 
> into the vast and unexplored world the computer opens up to us.
> 
> My earlier comment about Microsoft was only to illustrate 
> that at some point it gets a bit ridiculous that a company 
> such as theirs with their vast resources is still based on 
> the 'me-too' model, instead of taking a leadership role.  Why 
> weren't they the first ones to popularize instant messenging, 
> satellite maps, online music stores, effective search or book 
> digitizing?  Because nobody else had done it first. 
> 
> I WANT them to take a leadership role, I WANT them to create 
> an innovative and exciting technology environment, and I WANT 
> them to make me excited about using their technology.  
> Unfortunately they don't seem to want to do this, instead 
> throwing their money into making and marketing an endless 
> stream of knock-offs.
> 
> To get back on subject, I make this point not to say that the 
> OCA shouldn't be doing this, or that it won't be good for the 
> public in the long run, or even that their implementation is 
> a 'knock-off' of Google's.  It's just that we have to be wary 
> that there is a fine, but distinct, line between 'competing' 
> and 'copying.'  I really hope they take this technology and 
> beat the pants of Google with new and exciting ways of 
> accessing this content (WITHOUT tying me into Internet 
> Explorer or Windows in the meantime), but they have a lot of 
> corporate history to overcome.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> **Overlooking, of course, the inevitable similarities of 
> file-based desktop environments
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
> [mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michael McCulley
> Sent: June 13, 2006 12:00 AM
> To: 'DH MATTISON'; 'Web4Lib'
> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] MS Windows Live Book Search
> 
> 
> Just a note on the post, and Dave's fine points.. 
> 
> I will opt for the competition in this 
> marketspace/experiment.. even with limitations, the OCA and 
> Microsoft's participation in it is something I think the 
> profession should encourage. Help them, make it better, make 
> suggestions..
> 
> There are no absolute paths to the bookosphere (tm), only 
> various paths or parts of a whole..
> 
> I try and think of the libraries and users and staff that 
> will benefit from more books online, searchable, available 
> for - sometimes reading, downloading, browsing, fact-finding, 
> verification of bibliographic data, analysis, discovery, 
> serendipity, and so on...
> 
> I would think we need to welcome all players to the field for 
> this one..
> it's a, gulp, big endeavor.. needs accessibility work, 
> interfaces (maybe more than one, but maybe that's a plus; 
> think differences between search engine power), archives, 
> repositories, cross-sector relationships and agreements, 
> rights and permissions, and so on.
> 
> >From me, Welcome Microsoft.. Google.. Yahoo! ..UC and University of
> Toronto.. the game's afoot! And it feels exciting...
> 
> Best,
> DrWeb
> 
> --
> P. Michael McCulley aka DrWeb
> mailto:drweb at san.rr.com
> San Diego, CA
> http://drweb.typepad.com/
> 
> Quote of the Moment:
>  I don't necessarily agree with everything I say. (Marshall 
> McLuhan) Monday, June 12, 2006 8:46:30 PM 
>  
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
> >[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of DH MATTISON
> >Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:14 PM
> >To: Web4Lib
> >Subject: Re: [Web4lib] MS Windows Live Book Search
> >
> >To place this announcement in context, Microsoft is but one 
> member of 
> >the Open Content Alliance and this announcement is part of that 
> >initiative. When I first read about Yahoo!
> >digitizing books last October, I too had mistakenly assumed 
> that it was
> 
> >a catchup effort on Yahoo!'s part, only to learn that Yahoo! 
> was also a
> 
> >member of the Open Content Alliance.
> >
> >So it's actually the Open Content Alliance versus Google, 
> not Yahoo! or
> 
> >MSN/Windows Live Book Search versus Google. I have to wonder when 
> >Google will join the OCA. This is kind of like the VHS 
> versus Betamax 
> >format marketing war. In this case, however, we're probably going to 
> >see more than two search interfaces.
> >
> >BTW, besides the University of Toronto, the list of Canadian OCA 
> >partners includes McMaster University, Memorial University of 
> >Newfoundland, Simon Fraser University, University of British 
> Columbia, 
> >University of Ottawa, and York University.
> >
> >David Mattison
> >dmattison at shaw.ca
> >Ten Thousand Year Blog: http://www.davidmattison.ca/
> 
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