[Web4lib] Hotmail and 'Page cannot be displayed' message

[Hankinson, Andrew]

For the purposes of troubleshooting a firewall connection, it's
important to recognize the distinction between "Hotmail," "Messenger,"
and "Passport."  I find it quite confusing.  Here's my understanding:

If a user logs in to chat with Messenger (the Application on their
computer), they are authenticated on that machine, meaning they DO NOT
have to put in their username and password for Hotmail if they visit
http://www.hotmail.com - it's a single-sign-on process, and their ID
("Passport") gives them access to all sites that accept Passport.  Yes,
this would require access over port 1863, as they are authenticating
over MSN messenger. (This would also require them to use IE, as the
Single-Sign-On credentials probably aren't available to other browsers.)

The page that John sent details the Messenger client-server "talking"
for log-in and log-out. MSN Messenger does contact the Hotmail servers
over port 1863, but this is for Messaging purposes, not for access to
the web-based Hotmail.

If a user visits http://www.hotmail.com WITHOUT having access to MSN
Messenger and logs in with their "Passport," all of their traffic routes
over the normal port 80 (or port 443 for https://)  I am fairly certain
that this does NOT require port 1863 to be open on the firewall, as it
is just "normal" web traffic.  

If it does, well that's just crazy. I'd like to hear if I'm wrong about
this. (I just tried signing up for a Windows Live ID to test it out, and
it's broken in Firefox. Oh well.)

Cheers,
Andrew

As an addendum, I just noticed that "Passport" and "Windows Live ID"
seem to be the same thing...

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Chadwick, John,
DCA
Sent: August 28, 2006 12:07 PM
To: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Hotmail and 'Page cannot be displayed' message

Here is a good article about Hotmail and Messenger. Hotmail users
authenticate with Messenger on port 1863. With port 1863 blocked,
Hotmail users have problems authenticating.

http://www.hypothetic.org/docs/msn/notification/example_session.php

John

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
John Chadwick, Ed.D. Information Technology Manager New Mexico State
Library
1209 Camino Carlos Rey
Santa Fe, NM 87507
Phone: 505-476-9740  Fax: 505-476-9761
john.chadwick at state.nm.us
http://www.stlib.state.nm.us

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Hankinson, Andrew
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:45 AM
To: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Hotmail and 'Page cannot be displayed' message

I don't know about saying that "Hotmail won't work without Microsoft
Messenger."  It should - Hotmail is just a website, and it would be
running over port 80.
I would also suspect a firewall issue, but one that blocks access to
"http://www.hotmail.com" instead of a certain port.  It sounds like you
are using different routes to the Internet for different PC's, so have a
look "upstream" from the PC's that are having the problems.  My guess is
that you may find an overzealous admin who blocked Hotmail and Yahoo.

A good way to test if it's the encryption is to find someone with a
gmail account.  I know you can access gmail, both encrypted and
non-encrypted, simply by changing the "http://" to "https://".

Cheers,
Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Chadwick, John,
DCA
Sent: August 28, 2006 11:29 AM
To: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Hotmail and 'Page cannot be displayed' message

It is most likely a firewall issue. We block Microsoft Messenger, both
at the firewall level (port 1863) and application level in active
directory. Hotmail will not work without Microsoft Messenger. Messenger
is very prone to virus attacks and sucks down bandwidth.

John

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-+
John Chadwick, Ed.D. Information Technology Manager New Mexico State
Library
1209 Camino Carlos Rey
Santa Fe, NM 87507
Phone: 505-476-9740  Fax: 505-476-9761
john.chadwick at state.nm.us
http://www.stlib.state.nm.us

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lori Ayre
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:20 AM
To: John Fitzgibbon
Cc: web4lib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Hotmail and 'Page cannot be displayed' message

Sounds like a firewall issue.  Are the PCs that can't get mail at the
same location?  If so, I'd check the firewall settings and see if the
incoming mail ports are being blocked (port 110?).

Lori

On 8/28/06, John Fitzgibbon <jfitzgibbon at galwaylibrary.ie> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We have 86 PCs in 30 sites. The PCs and configuration are identical in

> all sites. The PCs run IE6 on Windows XP.
>
> Some of the PCs can't display Hotmail or Yahoo. When a person tries to

> access the Inbox, they receive a 'This Page Cannot be Displayed'
> message.
>
> They do not have a problem with web mail that does not use encryption.
>
> All sites are not affected. My impression is that sites that are using

> ISDN or sites that are using a slower version of broadband like 1 
> megabit per second download speed are affected. I know encryption uses

> more bandwidth as the encrypted files are larger but, it is possible
to
> use Hotmail over a dial up connection.
>
> Any ideas on what is going on?
>
> Regards
> John
>
> John Fitzgibbon
>
> p: 00 353 91 562471
> f: 00 353 91 565039
> w: http://www.galwaylibrary.ie
>
>


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