From mgfarkas at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 10:38:41 2006 From: mgfarkas at gmail.com (Meredith Farkas) Date: Sat Apr 1 10:38:45 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HigherEd BlogCon April 3-28, 2006 Message-ID: * HigherEd BlogCon 2006 * * Join us April 3-28, 2006, on this website * , for articles, podcasts, and screencasts from individuals representing more than 30 colleges and universities around the world exploring the topic of *transforming academic communities with new tools of the social web*. *We invite you to participate *by reading, commenting, and asking questions. Articles, podcasts, and screencasts on this site are available free of charge. *Subscribe to the RSS feed * to receive all content posted to this site, or visit us here throughout the month. *April 3-7, 2006: Teaching * - Blogs as personal learning environments - Curriculum development using a wiki - Legal issues in podcasting - And more ? * April 10-14, 2006: Library and Information Resources * - Blogging and podcasting in libraries - Web 2.0/Library 2.0 - Building an online research toolkit - And more ? * April 17-21, 2006: Admissions, Alumni Relations, and Communications & Marketing * - Podcasts as a marketing tool - Alumni E-Networks - Blogging and podcasting for student recruitment - April 20 CASE Speaker Event: Online Annual Giving Strategies(paid registration required) - And more ? * April 24-28, 2006: Websites & Web Development * - Legal education podcasting project - Taking control of HTML and CSS - Agile web apps - April 27 CASE Speaker Event: Podcasting News & Events(paid registration required) - And more ? I'm chairing the Library and Information Resources track, so feel free to contact me if you have any questions about this online conference. Cheers, Meredith -- Meredith Gorran Farkas http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/ From tobiasc at mail.lib.msu.edu Mon Apr 3 10:31:46 2006 From: tobiasc at mail.lib.msu.edu (Tobias, Christine) Date: Mon Apr 3 10:31:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Controlled vocabulary resources Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E0506A7C2@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> I am creating a controlled vocabulary list of business terms for articles in Turf News. Any suggestions for resources pertaining to small-business thesauri or word lists to use for potential term structures? I realize that this is not an indexing list-serv, but with the OPAC and database experience prevalent on this list, I figured someone could offer some useful input. Thanks in advance! Christine Christine Tobias Library Assistant Mathematics Library/ICL D101 Wells Hall Michigan State University 517-353-8852 tobiasc@msu.edu From arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu Mon Apr 3 12:41:10 2006 From: arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu (Arjun Sabharwal) Date: Mon Apr 3 12:42:20 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Controlled vocabulary resources Message-ID: <6da7bde3.a3431d47.81ec200@mserve1.baker.edu> Hi Christine, Businesses often use the term taxonomies to refer to classification. ASIS&T or the Special Libraries Association may have more resources on this subject. Have you tried those? -- Arjun From arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu Mon Apr 3 12:48:34 2006 From: arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu (Arjun Sabharwal) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:00:40 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Message-ID: <8824e903.a343cae0.8214800@mserve1.baker.edu> Hi Christine, Businesses often use the term taxonomies to refer to classification. ASIS&T or the Special Libraries Association may have more resources on this subject. Have you tried those? -- Arjun Sabharwal ********************************************************* I am creating a controlled vocabulary list of business terms for articles in Turf News. Any suggestions for resources pertaining to small-business thesauri or word lists to use for potential term structures? I realize that this is not an indexing list-serv, but with the OPAC and database experience prevalent on this list, I figured someone could offer some useful input. Thanks in advance! Christine Arjun Sabharwal Remote Services Librarian Baker Center for Graduate & Online Studies Phone:(810) 766-4210 1116 W. Bristol Road Flint, MI 48507 Email: arjun.sabharwal@baker.edu Online Library Web site: https://www.baker.edu/library/dlls/main.cfm From BTelford-Ishida at aclibrary.org Mon Apr 3 13:10:48 2006 From: BTelford-Ishida at aclibrary.org (Telford-Ishida, Barbara) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:12:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Message-ID: Hello Christine, You might try http://www.taxonomywarehouse.com/ which I found through Michael Middleton's Controlled vocabulary page, http://sky.fit.qut.edu.au/~middletm/cont_voc.html It is one of three thesauri websites recommended by Rosenfeld and Morville in Information Architecture for the World Wide Web. (The other two have no business listings.) Barbara Barbara Telford-Ishida Reference & Chat Librarian Newark Library (CA) -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of web4lib-request@webjunction.org Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 9:00 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Send Web4lib mailing list submissions to web4lib@webjunction.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.webjunction.org/mailman/listinfo/web4lib or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to web4lib-request@webjunction.org You can reach the person managing the list at web4lib-owner@webjunction.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Web4lib digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Controlled vocabulary resources (Tobias, Christine) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:31:46 -0400 From: "Tobias, Christine" Subject: [Web4lib] Controlled vocabulary resources To: Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E0506A7C2@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am creating a controlled vocabulary list of business terms for articles in Turf News. Any suggestions for resources pertaining to small-business thesauri or word lists to use for potential term structures? I realize that this is not an indexing list-serv, but with the OPAC and database experience prevalent on this list, I figured someone could offer some useful input. Thanks in advance! Christine Christine Tobias Library Assistant Mathematics Library/ICL D101 Wells Hall Michigan State University 517-353-8852 tobiasc@msu.edu ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ End of Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 ************************************** From brad.eden at unlv.edu Mon Apr 3 13:47:03 2006 From: brad.eden at unlv.edu (brad.eden@unlv.edu) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:50:34 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Call for speakers: ALCTS Scholarly Communication, ALA Annual Message-ID: The ALCTS Scholarly Communication Discussion Group is looking for speakers for its meeting at the ALA Annual meeting, New Orleans, on Monday June 26, 2006, from 1:30-3:30 pm. We are looking for speakers who are willing to discuss the role of technical services in institutional respositories. Additional time will be allowed for questions and answers. Please respond to Brad Eden, brad.eden@unlv.edu, by April 21, 2006. Thanks. We will also be looking for a new Vice-Chair/Chair Elect. If you are interested, please contact Andrea Imre at aimre@lib.siu.edu. Thanks. Brad Eden, Ph.D. Chair, ALCTS Scholarly Communications Head, Web and Digitization Services University of Nevada, Las Vegas Libraries brad.eden@unlv.edu Andrea Imre Vice-Chair, ALCTS Scholarly Communications Electronic Resources Librarian Southern Illinois University Carbondale aimre@lib.siu.edu From VFranklyn at ppld.org Mon Apr 3 14:17:17 2006 From: VFranklyn at ppld.org (Franklyn, Virginia) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:17:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] web site PR sections Message-ID: <0600FBC573ABAA4B8042C9FA002E8867C0A1D6@2k3-thor.ad.ppld.org> Hi Karen, We also use a Wordpress blog to chronicle what's new, updated, and happening at Pikes Peak Library District: http://library.ppld.org/Blogs/ppld/ We have a committee that submits entries, as well as RSS capability. It is pretty easy to use and free. Sincerely, Virginia Franklyn Pikes Peak Library District -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Ian Chan Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:39 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] web site PR sections Hi Karen, We use a Wordpress blog to publicize events. http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/library_news/ Our library director and an editor can login to the application and enter events. The Wordpress interface is easy to use and we have not experienced any problems. Wordpress also produces an RSS feed which we can pop into our home page. Podcasts would also work. Our university system, is developing a portal for students and staff which we aim to populate with our RSS feeds. We will also work on offering the library's audio tour via podcast. --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Karen Davis Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:44 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] web site PR sections Hi all- I'm interested in creating a "public relations" section within our library website which would include press releases, videos, podcasts, etc. promoting the library. Any recommendations for notable websites with these features would be much appreciated! TIA, Karen Davis _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From VFranklyn at ppld.org Mon Apr 3 14:19:10 2006 From: VFranklyn at ppld.org (Franklyn, Virginia) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:19:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS FEEDERS/aggregators Message-ID: <0600FBC573ABAA4B8042C9FA002E8867C0A1D7@2k3-thor.ad.ppld.org> I use RSSReader as my primary RSS aggregator mainly because it's pretty easy to use, is free, and allows me to subscribe to my internal (Intranet) blog. www.RSSReader.com Sincerely, Virginia Franklyn Pikes Peak Library District -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Leslie Johnston Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:27 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] RSS FEEDERS/aggregators I've used the free FeedReader desktop application on a PC for well over a year now: http://www.feedreader.com/ Leslie At 01:20 AM 3/31/2006, jennifer.kirton@dpi.nsw.gov.au wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >As an overworked, solo, special librarian I'm about two years behind with >all the latest technology etc, but I would like to start using RSS feeds >to stay up to date. (Once I knew what I was doing, I would look to >introduce it to my library clients as well) > >I would appreciate any suggestions - based on your own experiences - for >a web-based aggregator and for a desktop (Windows) aggregator (I.T. says >they wont allow me to download any, but I am working on them!). > >I am interested primarily in free services, but if there are any >subscription or fee based products that you would highly recommend, I >would appreciate hearing about them. > >I would also appreciate links to any online reviews etc particularly on >their use in libraries . I have found that there is so much information >out there it is confusing. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Regards, >Jennifer > > >Jennifer Kirton >Library >NSW Department of Primary Industries >Wollongbar Agricultural Institute >1243 Bruxner Highway >Wollongbar >New South Wales 2477 >Australia >jennifer.kirton@dpi.nsw.gov.au >ph +61 2 6626 1321 >fax +61 2 6628 5925 > > > >This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain >confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or >received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views >expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the >views of their organisation. >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ ------------ Leslie Johnston Head, Digital Access Services University of Virginia Library http://lib.virginia.edu/digital/ http://lib.virginia.edu/digital/das/ johnston@virginia.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From nengard at jenkinslaw.org Mon Apr 3 14:28:54 2006 From: nengard at jenkinslaw.org (Nicole Engard) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:31:10 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Website User Survey Samples Message-ID: Thank you all for your help in this matter. We have put up our first survey: http://www.jenkinslaw.org/services/websurvey.php We will be doing more through the rest of the year. Thanks again, Nicole Engard Web Manager Jenkins Law Library http://www.jenkinslaw.org/ http://www.web2learning.net/ >>> "Nicole Engard" 02/06/06 10:39AM >>> We are going to be redesigning our library site and catalog site this year. I'd like to have a series of surveys on our website to see what our users think of what we have and what they'd like to see. I was wondering if anyone had any samples they may have used or seen - something I can use as a jumping off point. Thank you, Nicole C. Engard Web Manager Jenkins Law Library http://www.jenkinslaw.org http://www.web2learning.net _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Apr 3 16:03:03 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Apr 3 16:03:03 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] JOBS: San Francisco Public Library Message-ID: <244B7D97-8F08-4CD8-8A0E-C64EA652DE9A@ucop.edu> Posted by request, please do not reply to me. Roy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Deputy City Librarian, Chief of Branches & Chief of Information Technology (3 Positions) San Francisco Public Library San Francisco, California's premiere city, seeks leaders in the library profession for three positions: Deputy City Librarian: Acts as the assistant to the City Librarian in the administration of the operations and activities of the Public Library. Ideal candidates will be visionary leaders with excellent communication and team building skills and an in-depth understanding of the issues confronting large urban libraries. Salary range: $100,022 - $134,004. Chief of Branches: Manages the Branch Library Division of the San Francisco Public Library, with oversight of twenty-seven Libraries and 189 staff. Salary range: $86,398 - $115,778. Chief of Information Technology: Manages the Information Technology Division of the San Francisco Public Library consisting of 24.5 FTEs. Salary range: $86,398 - $115,778. Minimum requirements for all three positions include a Masters of Library and Information Science (MLS or MLIS) degree from a library school accredited by the American Library Association and substantial management experience in a large urban library. These positions are open until filled. Apply as soon as possible. To be considered for these exceptional career opportunities, submit your resume, three work-related references and current salary to: Stuart Satow CPS Executive Search 241 Lathrop Way Sacramento, California 95815 Tel: 916 263-1401 Fax: 916 561-7205 E-mail: resumes@cps.ca.gov Recruitment brochure: www.cps.ca.gov/search SF Public Library website: www.sfpl.org From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Mon Apr 3 16:09:10 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Mon Apr 3 16:09:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] JOBS: San Francisco Public Library Message-ID: Nice salaries. Wouldn't want to take on the RFID mess, though.... -Margaret Eugene, OR -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:03 PM To: Web4Lib Subject: [Web4lib] JOBS: San Francisco Public Library Posted by request, please do not reply to me. Roy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Deputy City Librarian, Chief of Branches & Chief of Information Technology (3 Positions) San Francisco Public Library San Francisco, California's premiere city, seeks leaders in the library profession for three positions: Deputy City Librarian: Acts as the assistant to the City Librarian in the administration of the operations and activities of the Public Library. Ideal candidates will be visionary leaders with excellent communication and team building skills and an in-depth understanding of the issues confronting large urban libraries. Salary range: $100,022 - $134,004. Chief of Branches: Manages the Branch Library Division of the San Francisco Public Library, with oversight of twenty-seven Libraries and 189 staff. Salary range: $86,398 - $115,778. Chief of Information Technology: Manages the Information Technology Division of the San Francisco Public Library consisting of 24.5 FTEs. Salary range: $86,398 - $115,778. Minimum requirements for all three positions include a Masters of Library and Information Science (MLS or MLIS) degree from a library school accredited by the American Library Association and substantial management experience in a large urban library. These positions are open until filled. Apply as soon as possible. To be considered for these exceptional career opportunities, submit your resume, three work-related references and current salary to: Stuart Satow CPS Executive Search 241 Lathrop Way Sacramento, California 95815 Tel: 916 263-1401 Fax: 916 561-7205 E-mail: resumes@cps.ca.gov Recruitment brochure: www.cps.ca.gov/search SF Public Library website: www.sfpl.org _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From carynlanderson at yahoo.com Tue Apr 4 09:36:10 2006 From: carynlanderson at yahoo.com (Caryn Anderson) Date: Tue Apr 4 09:36:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] NEASIS&T Identity Management in a Web 2.0 World - 20 April 2006 Message-ID: <20060404133610.57651.qmail@web34213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please excuse cross-postings. Another cutting edge program from the New England chapter of the American Society for Information Science and Technology (NEASIS&T) ***************** Who Am I and How Do You Know For Sure? Identity Management in a Web 2.0 World Thursday, 20 April 2006, 8:30am-3:30pm Bartos Theater, Building E-15, 20 Ames Street, MIT, Cambridge, MA * How many times a day do you enter usernames and passwords? * How do you keep track of them all? * How often do you transfer private personal, financial or company data over the web? * How secure do you feel about it? * How well does your organization protect the private information of your consumers? * How much of your identity is "out there" for the taking? * How many times do you ask your consumers to identify themselves each time they use your services? Do you wish there was a better way? So do Ben Adida, Dick Hardt and Paul Trevithick ? and they?re working on it. Join the New England chapter of the American Society for Information Science and Technology (NEASIS&T) for an invigorating day with three leading innovators at the forefront of identity and security in today?s giddy environment of promiscuous information exchange over the Web. You will learn what the technological, practical and social challenges are for individuals and organizations in managing logins and the transfer of sensitive data over the web. You will get a sense of the range of initiatives exploring solutions and what the barriers are. You will hear from an academic studying cryptography and the semantic web as they apply to public policy issues like voting and health records (Adida). You will hear from a vendor developing solutions for organizations and individuals (Hardt). And you will hear about efforts to develop open source technology to give users more control over their online identity, profile and relationship information (Trevithick). NEASIS&T is pleased to present another timely program of leading speakers and panel discussion. Join us! * Ben Adida - PhD Candidate, MIT (http://ben.adida.net/) - Author, ?Benlog? (http://benlog.com/) * Dick Hardt - Founder and CEO, Sxip Identity (http://www.sxip.com/) - Author, ?Identity 2.0? (http://www.identity20.com/) * Paul Trevithick - Co-Founder & CEO, Parity Communications (http://parityinc.net/), - Co-Founder, Social Physics (http://socialphysics.org/) - Technical Project Lead of Higgins (http://eclipse.org/higgins) $60 ASIST Members - $80 Non-Members - $40 Student/Retiree/Between Jobs Lunch Included - Register by 14 April 2006 via http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20060420.html Questions?: E-mail Caryn Anderson (caryn.anderson@simmons.edu) Printable Flyer: http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/IDMgtFlyer.pdf __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Moorej at cafc.uscourts.gov Tue Apr 4 13:54:29 2006 From: Moorej at cafc.uscourts.gov (Moore, John D.) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:55:04 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Wanted: RSS and XML Utilities Message-ID: <75E286581F4BD6118A2D0002A5F137D90195E827@MAXX> I have appreciated the recent posts about RSS readers. I am looking for tools and utilities for marking up RSS xml documents, creating XSL stylesheets, and inserting iTunes tags into RSS feeds to make podcasts. Right now I am using HTML-Kit to mark up my html documents, but it doesn't have much RSS support. I don't really want to buy Dreamweaver, though I've heard it has pretty good RSS capabilities. I am using the little RSS Editor which is a nice Firefox extension, but it doesn't support any but the most basic RSS 2.0 tags. Thanks for the help. John D. Moore Assistant Librarian for Public Services U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit 202-312-5503 From jtgorman at uiuc.edu Tue Apr 4 14:10:01 2006 From: jtgorman at uiuc.edu (Jonathan Gorman) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:10:04 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Wanted: RSS and XML Utilities In-Reply-To: <75E286581F4BD6118A2D0002A5F137D90195E827@MAXX> References: <75E286581F4BD6118A2D0002A5F137D90195E827@MAXX> Message-ID: > I have appreciated the recent posts about RSS readers. I am looking for > tools and utilities for marking up RSS xml documents, creating XSL > stylesheets, and inserting iTunes tags into RSS feeds to make podcasts. > Hmmm, heck of a list there. I'll also add some HTML editing tools since it seems related. Two XML applications tend to be popular for general-use of manipulating XML, stylesheets and the like: XMLSpy and oXygen. I've heard people like both, but since I just use emacs with psgml mode configured for XML I don't use either. (Yes, I might be a geek). I've heard nxml is good too but haven't tired it out yet. More special purpose tools: For XSLT: Saxon makes a good parser, although I often employ xsltproc as well. I tend to do all of my transformation on the command-line. For HTML: for my money you can't beat the Firefox + Web Developer plugin. You can do so many wonderful things to the html and get so much info about it. (See where you're making mistakes, try out CSS edits in real time etc). Sorry I don't know of anything RSS-specific. I tend to stick to RSS 2.0, and that's a pretty simple schema. Of course, I don't generate RSS 2.0 by hand so I don't know of any DTD or schema for use with editing RSS feeds. The iTunes looks pretty straightforward as well. You might just have to use your favorite text editor :). I'm hoping to see some people post some other tools. I'd be curious to see them. Jonathan T. Gorman Visiting Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana 216 Main Library - MC522 1408 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 244-4688 From Bret.Parker at ci.stockton.ca.us Tue Apr 4 14:21:22 2006 From: Bret.Parker at ci.stockton.ca.us (Bret Parker) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:22:43 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Wanted: RSS and XML Utilities Message-ID: I highly recommend jEdit with its XML plugins. www.jedit.org Saxon has been a solid transformer for those wanting to use XSLT. More info at www.saxonica.com . I have only used the free version. As for RSS, my search led me to RSS Publisher but I have not yet used it. I ended up editing the RSS feed in jEdit, using someone else's RSS as my guide for valid XML. Bret Parker, Senior Applications Programmer Analyst (MLIS) Stockton-San Joaquin County Public Library City of Stockton (California) bret.parker@ci.stockton.ca.us (209) 937-7148 http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us >>> Jonathan Gorman 4/4/2006 11:10 AM >>> > I have appreciated the recent posts about RSS readers. I am looking for > tools and utilities for marking up RSS xml documents, creating XSL > stylesheets, and inserting iTunes tags into RSS feeds to make podcasts. > Hmmm, heck of a list there. I'll also add some HTML editing tools since it seems related. Two XML applications tend to be popular for general-use of manipulating XML, stylesheets and the like: XMLSpy and oXygen. I've heard people like both, but since I just use emacs with psgml mode configured for XML I don't use either. (Yes, I might be a geek). I've heard nxml is good too but haven't tired it out yet. More special purpose tools: For XSLT: Saxon makes a good parser, although I often employ xsltproc as well. I tend to do all of my transformation on the command-line. For HTML: for my money you can't beat the Firefox + Web Developer plugin. You can do so many wonderful things to the html and get so much info about it. (See where you're making mistakes, try out CSS edits in real time etc). Sorry I don't know of anything RSS-specific. I tend to stick to RSS 2.0, and that's a pretty simple schema. Of course, I don't generate RSS 2.0 by hand so I don't know of any DTD or schema for use with editing RSS feeds. The iTunes looks pretty straightforward as well. You might just have to use your favorite text editor :). I'm hoping to see some people post some other tools. I'd be curious to see them. Jonathan T. Gorman Visiting Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana 216 Main Library - MC522 1408 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 244-4688 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jtgorman at uiuc.edu Tue Apr 4 14:27:03 2006 From: jtgorman at uiuc.edu (Jonathan Gorman) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:27:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Wanted: RSS and XML Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <75E286581F4BD6118A2D0002A5F137D90195E827@MAXX> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Apr 2006, Jonathan Gorman wrote: > More special purpose tools: > For XSLT: Saxon makes a good parser, although I often employ xsltproc as > well. I tend to do all of my transformation on the command-line. Whoops, typing to quickly. For more precise wording, it's a good (excellent actually) processor, not a good parser. They mean different things in the XML/XSLT world. A parser reads in an XML file and creates an internal representation, an XSLT processor can process XSLT stylesheets and XML files to create output. It usually employs a parser so it can translate the XML to an internal representation. on an XML document or the "internal representation" created by a parser). Jon Gorman From jonathan at dnil.net Tue Apr 4 14:48:11 2006 From: jonathan at dnil.net (Jonathan Rochkind) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:48:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Wanted: RSS and XML Utilities Message-ID: <13543.205.175.123.100.1144176491.squirrel@webmail.dnil.net> >> I have appreciated the recent posts about RSS readers. I am looking for tools and utilities for marking up RSS xml documents, creating XSL stylesheets, and inserting iTunes tags into RSS feeds to make podcasts. For information about creating RSS for podcasts specifically, this article may be useful: http://academictech.doit.wisc.edu/resources/products/podcasts.htm It includes a short list of software that can be used for making a podcast RSS file (as well as a discussion of other aspects of creating a podcast including the actual audio editing, that you may not be interested in). A Podcast (as you likely already know) is an RSS file that uses the enclosure tag to include mp3 files in items. There are iTunes-specific tags used by the iTunes website and software---these are not in fact required to have a podcast, they just give you added functionality with iTunes. If you're looking for documentation/tutorials on the RSS format, the enclosure tag, or the iTunes-specific tags, we can probably find that for you. I ended up writing my RSS by hand when I needed to do this. I was not happy with that solution--it's not that it's so dificult, as that there's too much opportunity for typos in my opinion. Next time I have to do this, I think I'll investigate XMLSpy. --Jonathan From leah.krevit at exch.library.tmc.edu Tue Apr 4 15:15:13 2006 From: leah.krevit at exch.library.tmc.edu (Leah Krevit) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:15:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] May 8: Houston Conference: Vanishing Bits & Bytes: Preserving Information Message-ID: <5637D09D61DECB41940C180CA96CFA824CD159@mail.hamtmcl.local> We are very excited to be the host and primary organizer for the conference noted below! Vanishing Bits & Bytes: Preserving Information Monday, May 8, 2006 8:30 am - 4:00 pm Houston, TX http://resource.library.tmc.edu/Conference.htm Do you create or maintain valuable information in digital format? Learn to plan for the future availability of that data! Speakers: Clifford Lynch, PhD Director of the Coalition for Networked Information (CNI) Victoria Reich, MLS Director and co-founder of the LOCKSS Program Samuel Kaplan, PhD Professor & Chair of the Department of Microbiology & Molecular Genetics at The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston-Medical School; Chair, PubMed Central National Advisory Committee Houston area experts Sponsored by: Houston Academy of Medicine-Texas Medical Center Library Fondren Library, Rice University University of Houston libraries Online registration available on Conference website: http://resource.library.tmc.edu/Conference/RegistrationOption.php Leah Krevit, M.L.I.S. Associate Director Collections Management Houston Academy of Medicine - Texas Medical Center Library 1133 John Freeman Blvd. Houston TX 77030-2809 713.799.7126 | 713.799.7180 fax leah.krevit@exch.library.tmc.edu http://resource.library.tmc.edu From nls2 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 4 15:25:42 2006 From: nls2 at hotmail.com (Karen Merguerian) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:25:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Beta means never having to say you're sorry... Message-ID: Tired of working with software that is everlastingly in beta? Take a break to laugh at this funny article from the latest issue of PC World: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,124850,00.asp Karen Merguerian Northeastern University Libraries Boston, MA (Opinions are my own.) From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Apr 4 16:29:17 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:29:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Web services for LII content? Message-ID: <008601c65826$72ee76f0$6401a8c0@venus> (Originally posted to code4lib.) Wearing my LII hat (http://lii.org ) I have been approached by a library--and had suggestions on our user survey--for something I've wanted to offer from LII as an added value service (possibly through a Flickr model, where little tastes are free but if you want a cone you pay for it) but wasn't able to articulate very well either in execution or in technology. One survey response that I just read said: "Develop web services (accessible by subscription) to allow a developer to include some of the LII in an application." The library I've been talking to has said they are interested in an easy way to show LII content on their site. [Since this post I've heard from several more.] I have spoken briefly with their developers and indicated an interest in doing this, and even sent PDFs displaying our table structure internally. In turn, I've asked them what they would expect to see on their site. URLs? Links to LII content? Parsing-in of categories? Mini-descriptions, like titles plus the first ten, sort of like pulling in an RSS feed? If this helps, we generate XML very nicely in LII, through our new CMS (Community Servers, a front end for MySQL), and we have authentication options as well, and our developers have ecommerce experience. I keep wondering if this would be selling a service, an application, or both. I can see this being hugely useful for libraries--instead of maintaining lists of local links, display LII links, optionally with or without content. Our users tell us our content is useful and this is one more way we can be a good "business to business" service to libraries. I have informally heard from library reference managers who don't want to use so much staff time "recreating LII," as several have put it to me; that has a real dollar and cents component to it. It just needs some technical guidance and thinking-through. I really think we could get grant money to do this, too. I've had one librarian say, oh, well, if we had to pay we won't pay for it, we'll just write an application and do it ourselves, and my thoughts there are well if you can do it yourselves be my guest, but convenience, particularly translated to personnel hours, is often worth what you pay for it. So, thoughts? Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Librarians' Internet Index Websites you can trust! From S.Dudart at IBR-IRE.BE Wed Apr 5 09:14:44 2006 From: S.Dudart at IBR-IRE.BE (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dudart_St=E9phane?=) Date: Wed Apr 5 09:14:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] manage files on network Message-ID: <611C110A13EF4E44BD6CBA3F9D0E303616451F@SERVER02.IBR-IRE.local> Dear all, Here is our problem. For too long time, we put all our files in a specific place on our network. Everybody manage its own folders and files without specific rules. Now, we have too much information and we have difficulties to find it (no mandatory metadata). I would appreciate your help to find a solution for archiving old files and for developping a new system with archiving and storage rules. Best regards St?phane Dudart. "This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any review, dissemination, disclosure, alteration, printing, copying or transmission of this e-mail and/or any file transmitted with it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original as well as any copy of any e-mail and any printout thereof. Please note that e-mail messages cannot be considered as official information from the Institut des Reviseurs d'Entreprises/Instituut der Bedrijfsrevisoren." From nengard at jenkinslaw.org Wed Apr 5 11:18:45 2006 From: nengard at jenkinslaw.org (Nicole Engard) Date: Wed Apr 5 11:21:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] manage files on network Message-ID: I don't know if you can do this, but we had the same situation and we turned it into our Intranet. Now all files are stored in an organized fashion and linked to from web pages. This also means that one person (me) is in charge of keeping things organized & making sure the files follow the rules I've set forth. Thanks Nicole Engard http://www.jenkinslaw.org http://web2learning.net >>> Dudart St?phane 04/05/06 09:14AM >>> Dear all, Here is our problem. For too long time, we put all our files in a specific place on our network. Everybody manage its own folders and files without specific rules. Now, we have too much information and we have difficulties to find it (no mandatory metadata). I would appreciate your help to find a solution for archiving old files and for developping a new system with archiving and storage rules. Best regards St?phane Dudart. "This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any review, dissemination, disclosure, alteration, printing, copying or transmission of this e-mail and/or any file transmitted with it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original as well as any copy of any e-mail and any printout thereof. Please note that e-mail messages cannot be considered as official information from the Institut des Reviseurs d'Entreprises/Instituut der Bedrijfsrevisoren." _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From michele.haytko at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 11:30:16 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Wed Apr 5 11:30:21 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Message-ID: <15e475fa0604050830n1bbcc5e7r108475688e543010@mail.gmail.com> I have a question for the collective brain. ;-) My apologies for cross-postings. I am drafting something to take to my supervisor and am wondering how other libraries handle this problem. We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the order they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have complained about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who have been on all day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have their clock restarted. Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron A signs in at 9am, then leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We immediately get busy and the lab fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets kicked off, while Patron A, who has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a free pass. We currently have no limit to the amount of times a patron can come into the lab. So, my questions are these: 1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are they; if not, why not? 2. How do you handle waiting lists? 3. Do you enforce once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron is allowed one 1-hour session per day, etc)? If so, how does this model work for you? If not, why not? Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. Thanks in advance for your assistance. ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org Wed Apr 5 12:32:34 2006 From: PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org (Phillip Whitford) Date: Wed Apr 5 12:35:24 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Message-ID: Try and get funding for some public pc management software. We use PCReservation from Envisionware but there are others. Since we have been using it the problems like you describe have been reduced considerably. It saves staff time, helps prevent disagreements between patrons and between patrons and staff, and is well worth the cost. It allows lots of flexibility and provides good statistics so you can manage your computers much more efficiently. Even helps us with CIPA. In answer to your specific questions: 1. Yes we do. So we can maximize the use of the pcs and be fair to all patrons. We have different limits depending on the area the pc is in. In our lab patrons can use a machine for two 1 hour sessions. If no one is waiting each of those sessions can be extended by 1 hour. We have shorter times in Youth Services and longer in Local History. 2. PCReservation handles the waiting list issue and it works great. I'd be happy to answer additional questions about PCReservation or our setup. Phillip B. Whitford Manager Support Services Division Braswell Memorial Library Rocky Mount, NC 27804 Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my organization. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michele Haytko Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:30 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org; publib Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers I have a question for the collective brain. ;-) My apologies for cross-postings. I am drafting something to take to my supervisor and am wondering how other libraries handle this problem. We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the order they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have complained about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who have been on all day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have their clock restarted. Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron A signs in at 9am, then leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We immediately get busy and the lab fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets kicked off, while Patron A, who has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a free pass. We currently have no limit to the amount of times a patron can come into the lab. So, my questions are these: 1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are they; if not, why not? 2. How do you handle waiting lists? 3. Do you enforce once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron is allowed one 1-hour session per day, etc)? If so, how does this model work for you? If not, why not? Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. Thanks in advance for your assistance. ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Wed Apr 5 12:29:44 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed Apr 5 12:36:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] TechEssence.info Message-ID: TechEssence.info The essence of technology for library decision-makers A new web site and collaborative blog on technology for library decision-makers is now available at . TechEsssence provides library managers with summary information about library technologies, suggested criteria for decision-making, and links to resources for more information on essential library technologies. A collaborative blog provides centralized access to some of the best writers in the field. By subscribing to the RSS feed of the TechEssence.info blog, you will be able to keep tabs on the latest trends of which library administrators should be aware. To accomplish this I am joined by a truly amazing group: * Andrew Pace * Dorothea Salo * Eric Lease Morgan * Jenn Riley * Jerry Kuntz * Marshall Breeding * Meredith Farkas * Thomas Dowling For more information on the group, see our "about us" page at . Roy Tennant From jbrian at evansville.net Wed Apr 5 13:38:33 2006 From: jbrian at evansville.net (Judy McBrian) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:38:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Spanish language pc's Message-ID: <44340099.3030906@evansville.net> Please excuse the cross posting Oops. Some time ago someone posted on one of my lists with spanish language pcs available It has just come to my attention that this is something our library really needs. If you have any information, please contact me off list Many thanks Judy McBrian Boonville - Warrick County (Indiana) Public Library From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Apr 5 14:20:08 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed Apr 5 14:20:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Spanish language pc's In-Reply-To: <44340099.3030906@evansville.net> References: <44340099.3030906@evansville.net> Message-ID: <44340A58.608@ohiolink.edu> You may need to be more specific about what you think a Spanish Language PC is and what you need it to do. What problem are you trying to solve? Generally, the default language a computer does its business in is an operating system setting (i.e. Control Panel->Regional and Language Options in XP) and/or application settings (Tools->Options->Advanced->General in Firefox). Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu Judy McBrian wrote: > Please excuse the cross posting > Oops. > Some time ago someone posted on one of my lists with spanish language > pcs available > It has just come to my attention that this is something our library > really needs. > If you have any information, please contact me off list > Many thanks > Judy McBrian > Boonville - Warrick County (Indiana) Public Library From lbell927 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 5 14:46:40 2006 From: lbell927 at yahoo.com (Lori Bell) Date: Wed Apr 5 14:46:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Playaway Project Report Now Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060405184640.36266.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Mid-Illinois Talking Book Center Releases Playaway Project Report The Mid-Illinois Talking Book Center, Alliance Library System, and TAP Information Services are pleased to announce the availability of a report on a field test of the Playaway self-playing digital audio book conducted from December 2005 ? March 2006. The full text of the report is available at http://www.mitbc.org/Playaway/Playawayfinal.htm. More information on Playaway devices and content are available at http://www.playawaydigital.com/index_flash.aspx. During the project period, 140 devices were circulated to patrons from the Mid-Illinois Talking Book Center. The experiences and feedback gleaned during this small field test indicate that libraries of all types should seriously consider a self-contained digital audio book device such as the Playaway as one way to introduce the pleasure and convenience of digital audio books to broad middle group of their service populations?users who are neither technophobic nor technologically proficient. Many users with computers are excited about the availability of downloadable digital audio books. Playaway gives readers without a computer or an MP3 player the opportunity to experience digital audio books and libraries a way to offer digital audio books without worrying about platforms and players. ?Playaway represents an interesting intersection of the key functionality of digital audio books with the simplicity and portability of a small self-contained device,? stated Tom Peters, Project Director and evaluator. For more information on the project, contact Tom Peters of TAP Information Services at tapinformation@yahoo.com or 816-228-6406. For more information on Playaway and libraries, contact Mike Belsito of Findaway World/Playaway at mike.belsito@findawayworld.com. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From jghenderson at real.more.net Wed Apr 5 15:02:18 2006 From: jghenderson at real.more.net (Joan G. Henderson) Date: Wed Apr 5 15:02:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c658e3$760c0ec0$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Phillip Whitford Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:33 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Try and get funding for some public pc management software. We use PCReservation from Envisionware but there are others. Since we have been using it the problems like you describe have been reduced considerably. It saves staff time, helps prevent disagreements between patrons and between patrons and staff, and is well worth the cost. It allows lots of flexibility and provides good statistics so you can manage your computers much more efficiently. Even helps us with CIPA. In answer to your specific questions: 1. Yes we do. So we can maximize the use of the pcs and be fair to all patrons. We have different limits depending on the area the pc is in. In our lab patrons can use a machine for two 1 hour sessions. If no one is waiting each of those sessions can be extended by 1 hour. We have shorter times in Youth Services and longer in Local History. 2. PCReservation handles the waiting list issue and it works great. I'd be happy to answer additional questions about PCReservation or our setup. Phillip B. Whitford Manager Support Services Division Braswell Memorial Library Rocky Mount, NC 27804 Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my organization. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michele Haytko Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:30 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org; publib Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers I have a question for the collective brain. ;-) My apologies for cross-postings. I am drafting something to take to my supervisor and am wondering how other libraries handle this problem. We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the order they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have complained about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who have been on all day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have their clock restarted. Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron A signs in at 9am, then leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We immediately get busy and the lab fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets kicked off, while Patron A, who has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a free pass. We currently have no limit to the amount of times a patron can come into the lab. So, my questions are these: 1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are they; if not, why not? 2. How do you handle waiting lists? 3. Do you enforce once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron is allowed one 1-hour session per day, etc)? If so, how does this model work for you? If not, why not? Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. Thanks in advance for your assistance. ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com Wed Apr 5 15:44:55 2006 From: Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com (Louise Alcorn) Date: Wed Apr 5 15:45:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Message-ID: <9361FF6DA66FD34FB64CD5C6589BFD0C027EEFB2@citp1mx03.city.wdm.loc> Most of these systems you can have them set it up either way, or both! My little soapbox: You should *never* install such a system without being very clear with the vendor about what service levels you want to create, and how you want it to work for both staff and patrons. All of the big vendors--Pharos, Comprise (SAM), Envisionware, etc.--have options for multiple forms of queueing and waitlisting. It should be up to YOU (the library staff), not the vendor. We're in the process of installing one of these ourselves (SAM, as it happens--we went with a different company for the last 5 years). I have created a small, loose committee to deal with these issues, and we are meeting with the vendor to explain what we want and get price lists accordingly. We went through a RFQ (request for quote) process first, to narrow down our choices. Our RFQ was very specific about what we wanted, but also allowed for the vendor to offer us 'bells and whistles' we hadn't thought of. We were pretty close to the mark when they quotes came in. Best of luck! Louise =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:02 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO From jbrian at evansville.net Wed Apr 5 15:53:57 2006 From: jbrian at evansville.net (Judy McBrian) Date: Wed Apr 5 15:54:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Spanish pcs Message-ID: <44342055.9030907@evansville.net> Erk! I meant to refer to the Gates foundation computers with all programs in Spanish I do know how to change the language function, but these were special and not made available to all us poor libraries who qualified for Foundation hardware. I had record an email from some library who was giving away some of these. A listed gave me information on how to get the specific software I need from Tech Soup (shoulda' known :-) An new program for ESL in out southern Indiana community has sparked increased demand for Spanish language materials, computers as well Thanks to all of you who responded I should have been more specific, however in my small library I'm Systems (Idiot), Cataloger and Whoever-Answers-the-Phone-Is-Reference Desk. Judy McBrian Boonville Warrick Public Library From jghenderson at real.more.net Wed Apr 5 16:01:08 2006 From: jghenderson at real.more.net (Joan G. Henderson) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:01:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: <9361FF6DA66FD34FB64CD5C6589BFD0C027EEFB2@citp1mx03.city.wdm.loc> Message-ID: <000001c658eb$aef77690$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> I heard good things about SAM, particularly about a plug-in for wireless management (in most recent issue of "Computers in Libraries"). Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Louise Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:45 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Most of these systems you can have them set it up either way, or both! My little soapbox: You should *never* install such a system without being very clear with the vendor about what service levels you want to create, and how you want it to work for both staff and patrons. All of the big vendors--Pharos, Comprise (SAM), Envisionware, etc.--have options for multiple forms of queueing and waitlisting. It should be up to YOU (the library staff), not the vendor. We're in the process of installing one of these ourselves (SAM, as it happens--we went with a different company for the last 5 years). I have created a small, loose committee to deal with these issues, and we are meeting with the vendor to explain what we want and get price lists accordingly. We went through a RFQ (request for quote) process first, to narrow down our choices. Our RFQ was very specific about what we wanted, but also allowed for the vendor to offer us 'bells and whistles' we hadn't thought of. We were pretty close to the mark when they quotes came in. Best of luck! Louise =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:02 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jbrian at evansville.net Wed Apr 5 16:23:37 2006 From: jbrian at evansville.net (Judy McBrian) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:23:38 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Spanish Message-ID: <44342749.5030300@evansville.net> Well duhh I will do some thinking before I broadcast my ignorance to about a zillion librarians All I had to do was check my setup on our existing Gates machines, and there it is...Spanish language profile all disabled and ready to activate. It's been too long since I did anything new with these machines that are now becoming old (like me, I think) Thanks anyway for your help and your time Judy From elizabeth at avenue.org Wed Apr 5 16:26:20 2006 From: elizabeth at avenue.org (Liz Harman) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:24:32 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: <000301c658e3$760c0ec0$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> References: <000301c658e3$760c0ec0$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> Message-ID: This is how we do it. The self serve Reservation Station is not available the first 20 minutes we are open or until all computers are full, whichever is first. In some branches, patrons always stop at the Reservation Station. Ideally, in our multi-level main branch this is what they would do. Only a handful of patrons seem to do this. So, we have also installed the Reservation Station module on our LPT:One Release Stations. Then I try and direct patrons who come up here to the computer lab and have their card, to make their own reservation, and inform them of the dedicated machine on the main floor. However, if machines are available, we instuct patrons to go straight to a machine. We also have PC Res set up to automatically extend session time. Staff is involved to make guest reservations, and we feel that if we looked up the patron's card number then we should make the reservation as well (if needed). Feel free to email me backchannel if you have more questions about Envisionware. Liz Harman Internet Specialist Jefferson-Madison Regional Library Charlottesville, VA On Wed, 5 Apr 2006, Joan G. Henderson wrote: > We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. > > Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to > checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? > > I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does > the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and > then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go > directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, > does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are > basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times > for a patron, right? > > Joan Henderson > Ferguson Public Library > Ferguson, MO > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Phillip Whitford > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:33 AM > To: Web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers > > > Try and get funding for some public pc management software. We use > PCReservation from Envisionware but there are others. Since we have been > using it the problems like you describe have been reduced considerably. It > saves staff time, helps prevent disagreements between patrons and between > patrons and staff, and is well worth the cost. It allows lots of flexibility > and provides good statistics so you can manage your computers much more > efficiently. Even helps us with CIPA. > > In answer to your specific questions: 1. Yes we do. So we can maximize the > use of the pcs and be fair to all patrons. We have different limits > depending on the area the pc is in. In our lab patrons can use a machine for > two 1 hour sessions. If no one is waiting each of those sessions can be > extended by 1 hour. We have shorter times in Youth Services and longer in > Local History. 2. PCReservation handles the waiting list issue and it works > great. > > I'd be happy to answer additional questions about PCReservation or our > setup. > > Phillip B. Whitford > Manager Support Services Division > Braswell Memorial Library > Rocky Mount, NC 27804 > Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my organization. > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michele Haytko > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:30 AM > To: Web4lib@webjunction.org; publib > Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers > > > I have a question for the collective brain. ;-) My apologies for > cross-postings. > > I am drafting something to take to my supervisor and am wondering how other > libraries handle this problem. > > We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour > minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the order > they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have complained > about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who have been on all > day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have their clock restarted. > Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron A signs in at 9am, then > leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We immediately get busy and the lab > fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets > kicked off, while Patron A, who has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a > free pass. We currently have no limit to the amount of times a patron can > come into the lab. > > So, my questions are these: > 1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are they; > if not, why not? 2. How do you handle waiting lists? 3. Do you enforce > once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron is allowed one 1-hour > session per day, etc)? If so, how does this model work for you? If not, why > not? > > Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > ~michele~ > > -- > > **************)0(************** > Mrs. C. Michele Haytko > Montgomery County- > Norristown Public Library > MC-NPL Computer Lab > 1001 Powell Street > Norristown, PA 19401 > 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 > > "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Wed Apr 5 16:32:25 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:32:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Message-ID: Related question - We are about to begin with PAMS, because they could integrate our existing patron SmartCards. We'd originally thought we did not want to have a large LED or plasma screen to display the queue, to let folks know when their PC reservation was ready, and to instead simply install the reservation software and queue on all the catalog PCs, so users could toggle back and forth, and check there. We have three floors in our Downtown library, and 2 small branches. We think the toggle might still work in the branches. But at Downtown...are we inviting crowds of folks to monopolize catalog PCs, and hovering over each other's shoulders to see the screen? Are the larger display methods a distraction to service, do they encourage crowds to gather, too, would we need to provide seating there, do we need screens on all 3 floors? Each floor is the length of a city block - if we only have one on each floor, is that poor service? I guess we'd still have it available on the catalog PCs, too. How are other places handling this, and do you feel it's working, what are your concerns? Thanks. -Margaret Margaret E. Hazel Principal Librarian for Technology Eugene Public Library Eugene, OR -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:01 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers I heard good things about SAM, particularly about a plug-in for wireless management (in most recent issue of "Computers in Libraries"). Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Louise Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:45 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Most of these systems you can have them set it up either way, or both! My little soapbox: You should *never* install such a system without being very clear with the vendor about what service levels you want to create, and how you want it to work for both staff and patrons. All of the big vendors--Pharos, Comprise (SAM), Envisionware, etc.--have options for multiple forms of queueing and waitlisting. It should be up to YOU (the library staff), not the vendor. We're in the process of installing one of these ourselves (SAM, as it happens--we went with a different company for the last 5 years). I have created a small, loose committee to deal with these issues, and we are meeting with the vendor to explain what we want and get price lists accordingly. We went through a RFQ (request for quote) process first, to narrow down our choices. Our RFQ was very specific about what we wanted, but also allowed for the vendor to offer us 'bells and whistles' we hadn't thought of. We were pretty close to the mark when they quotes came in. Best of luck! Louise =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:02 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Wed Apr 5 16:36:11 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:36:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Message-ID: Further question (and I know this is a can of worms): Do you charge guests for internet use? How much, how long related to cardholders? Do you also have a free 10 or 15 minute email station? Do you provide free wireless access? We limit cardholders to an hour a day anywhere in the system. We are constrained by our City structure to only provide most services to city residents, and have been asked to have non-residents pay. Non-residents do have the option to buy a library card for full service. -Margaret Eugene, OR From jghenderson at real.more.net Wed Apr 5 17:06:26 2006 From: jghenderson at real.more.net (Joan G. Henderson) Date: Wed Apr 5 17:06:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c658f4$cd66aac0$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> 1) We do not charge guests for Internet. But must be out-of-District REAL guests. Depending on how busy, allow in-District "guest" one-two times, otherwise in-District need (free) Library Card. Out-of District can buy a card $50. 2) No wireless access YET. Trying to figure out what to buy, how to secure it, and how to get a count by home District of user (type of user) -- BTYPE in Dynix Horizon. Heard SAM has module for wireless manager with SIP (library card authentication for wireless). Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of HAZEL Margaret E Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:36 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Further question (and I know this is a can of worms): Do you charge guests for internet use? How much, how long related to cardholders? Do you also have a free 10 or 15 minute email station? Do you provide free wireless access? We limit cardholders to an hour a day anywhere in the system. We are constrained by our City structure to only provide most services to city residents, and have been asked to have non-residents pay. Non-residents do have the option to buy a library card for full service. -Margaret Eugene, OR _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jghenderson at real.more.net Wed Apr 5 17:17:49 2006 From: jghenderson at real.more.net (Joan G. Henderson) Date: Wed Apr 5 17:17:54 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c658f6$6490fb20$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> Those are really good questions. If patrons are setting up a "reservation" for a computer at a stand-alone sign-up workstation (Envisionware) -- how are they notified that "it is their turn." Do they keep hanging around the stand-alone reservation computer, watching the screen (or watching over someone's shoulder)? I wonder if the Envisionware reservation workstation comes with a voice synthesizer so it SAYS the name of the patron who is next for a computer and names the computer available? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: HAZEL Margaret E [mailto:margaret.e.hazel@ci.eugene.or.us] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:32 PM To: Joan G. Henderson; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Related question - We are about to begin with PAMS, because they could integrate our existing patron SmartCards. We'd originally thought we did not want to have a large LED or plasma screen to display the queue, to let folks know when their PC reservation was ready, and to instead simply install the reservation software and queue on all the catalog PCs, so users could toggle back and forth, and check there. We have three floors in our Downtown library, and 2 small branches. We think the toggle might still work in the branches. But at Downtown...are we inviting crowds of folks to monopolize catalog PCs, and hovering over each other's shoulders to see the screen? Are the larger display methods a distraction to service, do they encourage crowds to gather, too, would we need to provide seating there, do we need screens on all 3 floors? Each floor is the length of a city block - if we only have one on each floor, is that poor service? I guess we'd still have it available on the catalog PCs, too. How are other places handling this, and do you feel it's working, what are your concerns? Thanks. -Margaret Margaret E. Hazel Principal Librarian for Technology Eugene Public Library Eugene, OR -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:01 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers I heard good things about SAM, particularly about a plug-in for wireless management (in most recent issue of "Computers in Libraries"). Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Louise Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:45 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Most of these systems you can have them set it up either way, or both! My little soapbox: You should *never* install such a system without being very clear with the vendor about what service levels you want to create, and how you want it to work for both staff and patrons. All of the big vendors--Pharos, Comprise (SAM), Envisionware, etc.--have options for multiple forms of queueing and waitlisting. It should be up to YOU (the library staff), not the vendor. We're in the process of installing one of these ourselves (SAM, as it happens--we went with a different company for the last 5 years). I have created a small, loose committee to deal with these issues, and we are meeting with the vendor to explain what we want and get price lists accordingly. We went through a RFQ (request for quote) process first, to narrow down our choices. Our RFQ was very specific about what we wanted, but also allowed for the vendor to offer us 'bells and whistles' we hadn't thought of. We were pretty close to the mark when they quotes came in. Best of luck! Louise =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:02 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From JBloy at edgewood.edu Wed Apr 5 17:19:56 2006 From: JBloy at edgewood.edu (Jonathan Bloy) Date: Wed Apr 5 17:20:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Anyone using SwetsWise Federated searcher? Message-ID: Hi folks, Is anyone using SwetsWise federated searcher software, with the Vivisimo clustered results? If so, how do you and your patrons like it? -- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu From PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org Wed Apr 5 18:14:31 2006 From: PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org (Phillip Whitford) Date: Wed Apr 5 18:14:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers References: <000301c658e3$760c0ec0$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> Message-ID: We let patrons log on at the PC if they find a free one or they can use the self service reservation station. If a pc is available the reservation station reserves it for their use and prints out a small receipt with the computer location and a PIN they use to access the pc. If no pc is available the system offers them the net available pc and tells them when it will be available. If they accept the reservation they get a receipt and the pc is held for them. The system checks the patron's library card against our ILS to see if they are allowed to use pcs and if they are allowed to use a pc in the area they are trying to access. (We don't let kids use the adult lab unattended or adults use the kid pcs). Patrons without library cards can go to the staff desk and get guest access. The system automatically extends the time up to the maximum allowed so staff don't get involved in extending a patron's reservation. PCReservation is pretty flexible and offers 3 or 4 options for queuing. You can also change the setup anytime you want if you find you need to tweak it or if your polices change. Phillip Whitford Braswell Memorial Library ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Joan G. Henderson Sent: Wed 4/5/2006 3:02 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers We are going to have Envisionware installed soon. Do you use Self-Logon and the stand-alone Reservation workstation to checkout computers? Or, does staff still perform checkout functions? I am trying to figure out how self-queuing works with Envisionware. Does the patron go directly to the stand-alone Reservation workstation first, and then is assigned a computer by Envisionware. Or, does the patron go directly to a computer, if available, and only when all computer are taken, does he/she then go to the stand-alone Reservation workstation? Staff are basically not involved in computer checkout, except to, say, extend times for a patron, right? Joan Henderson Ferguson Public Library Ferguson, MO -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Phillip Whitford Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:33 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Try and get funding for some public pc management software. We use PCReservation from Envisionware but there are others. Since we have been using it the problems like you describe have been reduced considerably. It saves staff time, helps prevent disagreements between patrons and between patrons and staff, and is well worth the cost. It allows lots of flexibility and provides good statistics so you can manage your computers much more efficiently. Even helps us with CIPA. In answer to your specific questions: 1. Yes we do. So we can maximize the use of the pcs and be fair to all patrons. We have different limits depending on the area the pc is in. In our lab patrons can use a machine for two 1 hour sessions. If no one is waiting each of those sessions can be extended by 1 hour. We have shorter times in Youth Services and longer in Local History. 2. PCReservation handles the waiting list issue and it works great. I'd be happy to answer additional questions about PCReservation or our setup. Phillip B. Whitford Manager Support Services Division Braswell Memorial Library Rocky Mount, NC 27804 Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my organization. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michele Haytko Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:30 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org; publib Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers I have a question for the collective brain. ;-) My apologies for cross-postings. I am drafting something to take to my supervisor and am wondering how other libraries handle this problem. We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the order they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have complained about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who have been on all day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have their clock restarted. Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron A signs in at 9am, then leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We immediately get busy and the lab fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets kicked off, while Patron A, who has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a free pass. We currently have no limit to the amount of times a patron can come into the lab. So, my questions are these: 1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are they; if not, why not? 2. How do you handle waiting lists? 3. Do you enforce once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron is allowed one 1-hour session per day, etc)? If so, how does this model work for you? If not, why not? Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. Thanks in advance for your assistance. ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org Wed Apr 5 18:36:47 2006 From: PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org (Phillip Whitford) Date: Wed Apr 5 18:36:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers References: Message-ID: We don't charge anyone and guests use the system for as long as registered patrons. We do check ID for guests and if they are local they are required to get a card if they plan on using the PCs more than once or twice. Cards are free. Visitors that are in town for awhile can get a free temp card for just PC use. To be really effective PCReservation will need system users to have a library card or some other kind of account number. Being friendly to strangers has paid off (I mean besides in good karma). In addition to thanks from grateful travelers twice we had people donate money (several thousands dollars each time) to the library just because we let them check their email. We also offer free wi-fi to anyone who comes in (no card required) and many visitors, particularly business people, use that. Phillip Whitford Braswell Memorial Library ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of HAZEL Margaret E Sent: Wed 4/5/2006 4:36 PM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers Further question (and I know this is a can of worms): Do you charge guests for internet use? How much, how long related to cardholders? Do you also have a free 10 or 15 minute email station? Do you provide free wireless access? We limit cardholders to an hour a day anywhere in the system. We are constrained by our City structure to only provide most services to city residents, and have been asked to have non-residents pay. Non-residents do have the option to buy a library card for full service. -Margaret Eugene, OR _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From carynlanderson at yahoo.com Wed Apr 5 20:11:34 2006 From: carynlanderson at yahoo.com (Caryn Anderson) Date: Wed Apr 5 20:11:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Peter Morville to speak at Annual NEASIST Dinner Thursday, May 11 - Save the Date!! Message-ID: <20060406001134.55551.qmail@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Apologies for any cross postings.... Save the date and plan to join us!! NEASIS&T Awards Dinner with special guest Peter Morville "Ambient Findability" May 11 2006, 6-9pm MIT Faculty Club, 50 Memorial Drive (Building E52), Cambridge, MA On Ambient Findability: "At the crossroads of ubiquitous computing and the Internet, the user experience is out of control, and findability is the real story. Access changes the game. We can select our sources and choose our news. We can find who and what we need, when and where we want. As society shifts from push to pull, findability shapes who we trust, how we learn, and where we go. In this cyberspace safari, Peter Morville explores the future present in search algorithms, embedded metadata, ontologies, folksonomies, mobile devices, findable objects, evolutionary psychology, and the long tail of the sociosemantic web." Registration available soon! Subscribe to the RSS feed from the NEASIST Events Blog for updates: http://www.neasist.org/events/ -- Caryn Anderson Program Coordinator PhD in Managerial Leadership in the Information Professions GSLIS, Simmons College 300 The Fenway, P-204E Boston, MA 02115 caryn.anderson@simmons.edu 617.521.2829 http://www.simmons.edu/gslis/phdmlip/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From drweb at san.rr.com Wed Apr 5 22:07:14 2006 From: drweb at san.rr.com (Michael McCulley) Date: Wed Apr 5 22:07:16 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] TechEssence.info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00ca01c6591e$d3849410$3a964b42@PMM> Looks great, and timely, Roy.. I feel like we'll see more collaborative blogs and wiki-like structures for sites soon. I've signed up for the RSS and will enjoy the vibes and wisdom of this fine group. Question: How come you didn't opt for Tech4Lib or perhaps LibTechEssence.info or TechLibEssence.info or perhaps TechLib.info? That would seem deliberate, somehow -- leaving out the "library" name? Best, DrWeb -- P. Michael McCulley aka DrWeb mailto:drweb@san.rr.com San Diego, CA http://drweb.typepad.com/ Quote of the Moment: -Nothing was ever accomplished by a reasonable person. Wednesday, April 05, 2006 7:01:31 PM >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant >Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:30 AM >To: Web4Lib; libadmin@list.umaryland.edu >Subject: [Web4lib] TechEssence.info > >TechEssence.info >The essence of technology for library decision-makers > >A new web site and collaborative blog on technology for library >decision-makers is now available at . >TechEsssence provides library managers with summary information about >library technologies, suggested criteria for decision-making, and >links to resources for more information on essential library >technologies. > >A collaborative blog provides centralized access to some of the best >writers in the field. By subscribing to the RSS feed of the >TechEssence.info blog, you will be able to keep tabs on the latest >trends of which library administrators should be aware. > >To accomplish this I am joined by a truly amazing group: > >* Andrew Pace >* Dorothea Salo >* Eric Lease Morgan >* Jenn Riley >* Jerry Kuntz >* Marshall Breeding >* Meredith Farkas >* Thomas Dowling > >For more information on the group, see our "about us" page at techessence.info/about/>. >Roy Tennant From roger.fenton at llgc.org.uk Thu Apr 6 03:28:24 2006 From: roger.fenton at llgc.org.uk (Roger Fenton) Date: Thu Apr 6 03:26:10 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: <15e475fa0604050830n1bbcc5e7r108475688e543010@mail.gmail.com> References: <15e475fa0604050830n1bbcc5e7r108475688e543010@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4434C318.8030008@llgc.org.uk> Dear Michele, This isn't a problem we have, but would it not be possible to rig up either a card-controlled access to machines, where each user is given X minutes a day (which could be varied by user if some need more time than others, such as those with disabilities), the card goes in a slot and minutes are counted down during use, with the user given a 5-minute warning before being automatically signed off. Or the same thing could be controlled by user log-in instead of a physical card. Roger Fenton Michele Haytko wrote: >We have a computer lab of 16 machines. We guarantee users a half hour >minimum and then, once we have a waiting list, boot folks off in the >order they signed into the lab. Staff, volunteers, and patrons have >complained about our waiting list "rules". Right now, patrons who >have been on all day, then sign-out, then sign in 2 minutes later have >their clock restarted. Many view this as unfair. For example, Patron >A signs in at 9am, then leaves at 2pm, then returns at 2:10pm. We >immediately get busy and the lab fills up. The "earliest" sign-in is >from 1pm, so Patron B (the 1pm) gets kicked off, while Patron A, who >has used the Lab for over 5 hours gets a free pass. We currently have >no limit to the amount of times a patron can come into the lab. > >So, my questions are these: >1. Do you have mins/maxs on computer usage? If so, why and what are >they; if not, why not? >2. How do you handle waiting lists? >3. Do you enforce once or twice a day usage policies (i.e. a patron >is allowed one 1-hour session per day, etc)? If so, how does this >model work for you? If not, why not? > >Anything else you can offer would be so very helpful. >Thanks in advance for your assistance. >~michele~ > >-- >**************)0(************** >Mrs. C. Michele Haytko >Montgomery County- > Norristown Public Library >MC-NPL Computer Lab >1001 Powell Street >Norristown, PA 19401 >610-278-5100 Ext. 141 > >"Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > -- Roger Fenton Swyddog Prosiect Adran Gwasanaethau Casgliadau Is-adran Systemau Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru Aberystwyth, Ceredigion SY23 3BU Cymru http://www.llgc.org.uk/ Ff?n: +44 (0) 1970 632800 est. 368 e-bost: roger.fenton@llgc.org.uk Dydy'r uchod ddim o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli polisi'r LlGC Project Officer Department of Collection Services Systems Section National Library of Wales Aberystwyth, Ceredigion SY23 3BU Wales http://www.llgc.org.uk/ Tel.: +44 (0) 1970 632800 ext. 368 Fax: +44 (0) 1970 632882 e-mail: roger.fenton@llgc.org.uk The above does not necessarily represent NLW policy From elizabeth at avenue.org Thu Apr 6 09:21:38 2006 From: elizabeth at avenue.org (Elizabeth Harman) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:21:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Waiting Lists for Computers In-Reply-To: <001001c658f6$6490fb20$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> References: <001001c658f6$6490fb20$3cafc796@acer586e497f47> Message-ID: <443515E2.6050607@avenue.org> Envisionware has the option of a receipt printer, that will print out which computer and time. You can also choose various options such as PIN number (we validate by card # and last name), Card number, etc. Because patrons make a "reservation" there is no hanging around for their turn. They have an assigned computer at an assigned time. This concept can take some getting used to, but the best explanation I heard can over the Envisionware Users listserv. Calling it a "reservation" is confusing. Its better to think of it as an "appointment" Just like at a doctor's office, you have an assigned time. But another patient can walk in after you and get seen before you. You still have your appointment. There is the option of "short sessions" so if a person wants a computer RIGHT NOW, either walk in or has an existing reservation, they can go to a free computer and log in. If they have a future reservation, it will ask if they want to cancel their existing reservation for use right now. The only way to insure that they will get the full session time that your library allows is to make a reservation. The staff management consoles can "View Reservations" so if someone forgets, staff can look up the information for them. Liz Harman Jefferson-Madison Regional Library Charlottesville, VA Joan G. Henderson wrote: > Those are really good questions. > > If patrons are setting up a "reservation" for a computer at a stand-alone > sign-up workstation (Envisionware) -- how are they notified that "it is > their turn." Do they keep hanging around the stand-alone reservation > computer, watching the screen (or watching over someone's shoulder)? I > wonder if the Envisionware reservation workstation comes with a voice > synthesizer so it SAYS the name of the patron who is next for a computer and > names the computer available? > > Joan Henderson From Walt.Crawford at rlg.org Fri Apr 7 10:31:16 2006 From: Walt.Crawford at rlg.org (Walt.Crawford@rlg.org) Date: Fri Apr 7 10:34:47 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Fw: Cites & Insights 6:6 available Message-ID: Cites & Insights 6:6, Spring 2006, is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ6i6.pdf The 26-page issue (PDF) is a little more normal than the April Diamond Anniversary Special. It includes the following, all but the last also available as HTML separates from the C&I home page http://cites.boisestate.edu/ * Perspective: Discovering Books: The OCA/GBS Saga Continues - keeping up to date on projects to make books more discoverable. * The Library Stuff - one featured website and ten articles and posts worth reading * Trends & Quick Takes - seven items * Good Stuff Perspective: Journal of Electronic Publishing Returns! - notes on all but one of the articles in the first new issue in 3.5 years * Following Up and Feedback - belatedly, six pieces of feedback * Net Media: Blogs, Google and [Prawn] - OK, that last word is not quite right, but I don't want to get blocked by spam filters. * My Back Pages - nine comments and curiosities From bkelly at apl.org Fri Apr 7 11:16:16 2006 From: bkelly at apl.org (bkelly@apl.org) Date: Fri Apr 7 11:16:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Job Posting - Electronic Services Librarian Message-ID: LIBRARIAN I - ELECTRONIC SERVICES APPLETON PUBLIC LIBRARY The City of Appleton is currently accepting applications for a Librarian I position. This is a professional exempt position in the Reference and Information Services Section of the library. Work involves providing reference and readers advisory to patrons at the adult public service desks; developing and maintaining the library's website; advising on the development and implementation of new electronic services; assisting library staff with website and electronic service development as appropriate; participating in general nonfiction collection development, preparing user guides and booklists, and working as a member of the Reference and Information Services team. Some evenings and weekends are required. This position requires some experience in a public library Reference service, and a Masters Degree in Library Science, or any equivalent combination of experience and training. The ability to speak Spanish or Hmong is a plus. Starting rate is $19.82/hour. Interested applicants should fax or send an application postmarked no later than April 24, 2006. Resumes without an application will not be considered. Applications are available in our office, via e-mail, or may be retrieved from our website at www.appleton.org . City of Appleton Human Resources Department/6th Floor 100 N. Appleton Street Appleton, WI 54911 Phone: 920-832-6458 Fax: 920-832-5845 Email: humanresources@appleton.org Equal Opportunity Employer From pshapiro at his.com Fri Apr 7 12:53:35 2006 From: pshapiro at his.com (Phil Shapiro) Date: Fri Apr 7 12:55:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] public library coordinating community creative projects Message-ID: <1144428815.4436990f898c7@webmail.his.com> hi everyone - at the public library where i work in maryland there are several community members working on a collaborative multimedia project -- coordinated by a library staff member. our library is also thinking of trying some group creative writing projects on our wiki. just curious to hear if others have walked down this path. - phil shapiro -- Phil Shapiro pshapiro@his.com http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/pshapiro http://philsrssfeed.blogspot.com http://www.his.com/pshapiro/stories.menu.html "Wisdom starts with wonder." - Socrates "Learning happens through gentleness." From peterson at amigos.org Fri Apr 7 15:47:22 2006 From: peterson at amigos.org (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:45:48 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] PERL Workshop/San Antonio Message-ID: PERL for Librarians May 22-23, 2006 San Antonio, TX This two day course will provide a thorough, hands-on introduction to the PERL programming language and how it can be used in a library setting. Students will learn the syntax of PERL programs, how to incorporate existing PERL modules into their work, text processing, regular expressions, and how to develop interactive web applications using the Common Gateway Interface (CGI). Exercises and example programs will focus on using PERL for administrative tasks as well as in web development. Topics to be Covered: * Running PERL programs * Debugging PERL programs * Basic PERL syntax * Working with variables, lists, and arrays * Conditional tests and flow control * Creating functions * Using STDIN and STDOUT * Working with files and directories * Pattern matching and substitution * CPAN (the Comprehensive PERL Archive Network) * Subroutines, packages and modules * Overview of the CGI * Overview of HTML forms and form tagging * Using cgi.pm to build your CGI Audience: Librarians interested in learning to use PERL. Prerequisites: None. Familiarity with UNIX and HTML forms beneficial. About the Instructor Patrick Yott serves as the Digital Initiatives Librarian at Brown University where he is charged with designing and implementing a digital library program within the library. Additionally Patrick is currently working with the Scholarly Technology Group and other units on campus to develop an institution-wide policy and architecture for managing digital objects. Prior to his appointment at Brown, Patrick worked at the University of Virginia Library where he directed the Geospatial and Statistical Data Center and most recently, served as Director of Digital Services Integration, overseeing UVA?s Library of Tomorrow Project. Patrick has been developing interactive websites using PERL, PHP, XML and SQL since 1995, and has taught programming workshops for the International Association for Social Science Information Service and Technology (IASSIST), the Association of Research Libraries (ARL), the New England Library Network (NELINET), the Visual Resources Association (VRA) and other local and regional groups. Contact Hrs: 12.00 Amigos Member Early Bird Fee: $ 325.00 Non-member Early Bird Fee: $ 480.00 Amigos Member Fee: $ 350.00 Amigos Non-member Fee: $ 505.00 Registration is available on the Amigos web site. http://www.amigos.org/learning/catalog/shopping/product_details.php?id=197 Christine Peterson Continuing Education Librarian, Technology Amigos Library Services, Inc. 14400 Midway Road, Dallas, TX 75244-3509 1-800-843-8482 ext: 2891 512-671-1580 (direct) 512-671-1580 (fax) www.amigos.org peterson@amigos.org From Wieben at e-lcds.org Mon Apr 10 09:01:10 2006 From: Wieben at e-lcds.org (Nyla Wiebe) Date: Mon Apr 10 09:01:34 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Middle/Upper School Librarian Message-ID: Lancaster Country Day School in Lancaster, PA has an opening for a Middle/Upper School Librarian. Complete job description and application instructions at: http://www.e-lcds.org/about/employment.php Lancaster Country Day School is a coeducational, college preparatory, nonsectarian, independent school for grades preschool to 12. Building on nearly one hundred years of experience, the School seeks students of character and above average ability from diverse ethnic, racial, socioeconomic, and geographic backgrounds. Nyla Wiebe Director of Information Services Lancaster Country Day School 725 Hamilton Road Lancaster, PA 17603 (717) 392-2916 x261 From RSCHEIER at holycross.edu Mon Apr 10 11:41:22 2006 From: RSCHEIER at holycross.edu (Robert Scheier) Date: Mon Apr 10 11:41:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7 Message-ID: Can anyone suggest some resources for cataloging standards for electronic resources, particularly databases. I am wondering what is the definitive source for questions like, in the 362, should this data be the content coverage or the date the database began. Should the record be vendor neutral, it look like it should not be based on OCLC records in the system for databases. But, I just want some reassurance based on a authoritative source. Is this ACCRII/III? Any info to get me started would be great. Mostly so far I have looked at the "Cataloging Electronic Resources: OCLC-MARC Coding Guidelines" and some conser web pages. Thanks, Bob ========================= Bob Scheier Electronic Resources Librarian Dinand Library College of the Holy Cross 1 College Street Worcester, Mass. 01610-2395 508-793-3495 rscheier@holycross.edu AIM: veganbobs ========================= >>> web4lib-request@webjunction.org 04/08/06 12:00 PM >>> Send Web4lib mailing list submissions to web4lib@webjunction.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.webjunction.org/mailman/listinfo/web4lib or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to web4lib-request@webjunction.org You can reach the person managing the list at web4lib-owner@webjunction.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Web4lib digest..." Today's Topics: 1. public library coordinating community creative projects (Phil Shapiro) 2. PERL Workshop/San Antonio (Chris Peterson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:53:35 -0400 From: Phil Shapiro Subject: [Web4lib] public library coordinating community creative projects To: "" Message-ID: <1144428815.4436990f898c7@webmail.his.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hi everyone - at the public library where i work in maryland there are several community members working on a collaborative multimedia project -- coordinated by a library staff member. our library is also thinking of trying some group creative writing projects on our wiki. just curious to hear if others have walked down this path. - phil shapiro -- Phil Shapiro pshapiro@his.com http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/pshapiro http://philsrssfeed.blogspot.com http://www.his.com/pshapiro/stories.menu.html "Wisdom starts with wonder." - Socrates "Learning happens through gentleness." ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:47:22 -0500 From: Chris Peterson Subject: [Web4lib] PERL Workshop/San Antonio To: PACS-L@LISTSERV.UH.EDU, web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 PERL for Librarians May 22-23, 2006 San Antonio, TX This two day course will provide a thorough, hands-on introduction to the PERL programming language and how it can be used in a library setting. Students will learn the syntax of PERL programs, how to incorporate existing PERL modules into their work, text processing, regular expressions, and how to develop interactive web applications using the Common Gateway Interface (CGI). Exercises and example programs will focus on using PERL for administrative tasks as well as in web development. Topics to be Covered: * Running PERL programs * Debugging PERL programs * Basic PERL syntax * Working with variables, lists, and arrays * Conditional tests and flow control * Creating functions * Using STDIN and STDOUT * Working with files and directories * Pattern matching and substitution * CPAN (the Comprehensive PERL Archive Network) * Subroutines, packages and modules * Overview of the CGI * Overview of HTML forms and form tagging * Using cgi.pm to build your CGI Audience: Librarians interested in learning to use PERL. Prerequisites: None. Familiarity with UNIX and HTML forms beneficial. About the Instructor Patrick Yott serves as the Digital Initiatives Librarian at Brown University where he is charged with designing and implementing a digital library program within the library. Additionally Patrick is currently working with the Scholarly Technology Group and other units on campus to develop an institution-wide policy and architecture for managing digital objects. Prior to his appointment at Brown, Patrick worked at the University of Virginia Library where he directed the Geospatial and Statistical Data Center and most recently, served as Director of Digital Services Integration, overseeing UVA***s Library of Tomorrow Project. Patrick has been developing interactive websites using PERL, PHP, XML and SQL since 1995, and has taught programming workshops for the International Association for Social Science Information Service and Technology (IASSIST), the Association of Research Libraries (ARL), the New England Library Network (NELINET), the Visual Resources Association (VRA) and other local and regional groups. Contact Hrs: 12.00 Amigos Member Early Bird Fee: $ 325.00 Non-member Early Bird Fee: $ 480.00 Amigos Member Fee: $ 350.00 Amigos Non-member Fee: $ 505.00 Registration is available on the Amigos web site. http://www.amigos.org/learning/catalog/shopping/product_details.php?id=197 Christine Peterson Continuing Education Librarian, Technology Amigos Library Services, Inc. 14400 Midway Road, Dallas, TX 75244-3509 1-800-843-8482 ext: 2891 512-671-1580 (direct) 512-671-1580 (fax) www.amigos.org peterson@amigos.org ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ End of Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7 ************************************** From Dave.Bretthauer at uconn.edu Mon Apr 10 13:49:00 2006 From: Dave.Bretthauer at uconn.edu (Dave Bretthauer) Date: Mon Apr 10 13:48:24 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Exciting Pre-conference at ALA New Orleans Message-ID: <8C81AA7D3B12F4408C6B3359AEB001CC01589CCE@LIB-EMarks.library.lib.uconn.edu> Electronic resource librarians, publishers, library contract officers, library managers, and others may be interested in this exciting preconference taking place at ALA Annual in New Orleans. This is not just another program on licensing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Contracting for Content in a Digital World: An exploration of the current issues in policy and practice Friday, June 23, 8:30 am - 2:30 pm, New Orleans, LA Panelists: Ann Okerson, Yale University & LibLicense-L on The Overview David Ferreiro, Director, New York Public Library on the Google Contract Alicia Wise, Publisher's Licensing Society, UK on A Standarized License Miriam Nisbet, ALA Washington Office on Copyright Issues in Transition Helen Wilbur, Thomson/Gale- a Vendor's View, Buying and Selling Content Sybil Boutilier, San Francisco Public Library- moderator (and Special Guests) It isn't about Force Majeure (though it's an issue for New Orleans), it's about the Forces of Competing Interests that are impacting our licenses and contracts in the age of digital library materials. Not only are all types of libraries contracting for digital content, they're providing content for digitization and delivery by aggregators and search engines. Access to digital library materials is one of the hottest evolving issues worldwide, and it is made concrete in our contracts. A panel of top experts will discuss the forces and interests on the national and international scene that are shaping the new terms libraries, publishers, aggregators and search engines are negotiating in contracts and licenses today. What changes in U.S. and foreign Copyright law are impacting the terms and language in our contracts and licenses? How will these affect content owners' and library users' rights and restrictions? What different types of licenses and contracts are emerging? What is the progress of the movement to Standardize Licenses and will it help or hurt? What needs to be considered and negotiated when search engines and aggregators want to digitize and serve up your library content? How can libraries and vendors come to terms on Click- through and Web-wrap licenses? What are the contract trends regarding archiving, perpetual access, permanent copies, open access, micro-data pricing, digital library loan and other sticky issues? We'll examine some successful strategies, review the latest licensing survey of Libraries and Publishers, and have an opportunity to interact with top experts on all these subjects and more. The competing forces are at work in the development of new technologies and new laws. In the U.S. Congress and courts, and in International bodies they are shaping the rules and laws and industry standards that impact how we can use digital library materials and the terms & conditions we'll have to negotiate in our contracts and licenses. This workshop will give us the chance to advance our learning about these important trends from the people with direct experience at the highest levels. Continental breakfast and box lunch included. Sponsored by: LITA & COL Subcommittee on Intellectual Property and Technology Register online through May 19th at www.ala.org. LITA accepts on site registrations at the pre-conferences For further information, contact the LITA Office at 800-545-2433 x4269 From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Mon Apr 10 15:12:11 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Mon Apr 10 15:12:29 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Web services for LII content? Message-ID: If you can utilize tags that will enable localization of information returned, this might be a great option. -Margaret Eugene Public Library Eugene, OR -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:29 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Cc: 'PubLib ' Subject: [Web4lib] Web services for LII content? (Originally posted to code4lib.) Wearing my LII hat (http://lii.org ) I have been approached by a library--and had suggestions on our user survey--for something I've wanted to offer from LII as an added value service (possibly through a Flickr model, where little tastes are free but if you want a cone you pay for it) but wasn't able to articulate very well either in execution or in technology. One survey response that I just read said: "Develop web services (accessible by subscription) to allow a developer to include some of the LII in an application." The library I've been talking to has said they are interested in an easy way to show LII content on their site. [Since this post I've heard from several more.] I have spoken briefly with their developers and indicated an interest in doing this, and even sent PDFs displaying our table structure internally. In turn, I've asked them what they would expect to see on their site. URLs? Links to LII content? Parsing-in of categories? Mini-descriptions, like titles plus the first ten, sort of like pulling in an RSS feed? If this helps, we generate XML very nicely in LII, through our new CMS (Community Servers, a front end for MySQL), and we have authentication options as well, and our developers have ecommerce experience. I keep wondering if this would be selling a service, an application, or both. I can see this being hugely useful for libraries--instead of maintaining lists of local links, display LII links, optionally with or without content. Our users tell us our content is useful and this is one more way we can be a good "business to business" service to libraries. I have informally heard from library reference managers who don't want to use so much staff time "recreating LII," as several have put it to me; that has a real dollar and cents component to it. It just needs some technical guidance and thinking-through. I really think we could get grant money to do this, too. I've had one librarian say, oh, well, if we had to pay we won't pay for it, we'll just write an application and do it ourselves, and my thoughts there are well if you can do it yourselves be my guest, but convenience, particularly translated to personnel hours, is often worth what you pay for it. So, thoughts? Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Librarians' Internet Index Websites you can trust! _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From tapinformation at yahoo.com Mon Apr 10 17:15:31 2006 From: tapinformation at yahoo.com (Tom Peters) Date: Mon Apr 10 17:15:34 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Announcement: Johnson County Library's OPAL series for librarians Message-ID: <20060410211531.47135.qmail@web82112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Today the Johnson County Library (http://www.jocolibrary.org/) in Kansas announced a new series of online professional development opportunities for librarians. They will be offered on the third Friday of each month. The series will be offered through the OPAL collaborative (http://www.opal-online.org). The dates, start times, and brief descriptions of each event in the series are listed below. For current information about these and all upcoming OPAL online programs, please visit http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm. These online programs are open to all librarians and library users worldwide. There is no need to register. Friday, April 21, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Getting Along with IT Staff David King, Acting ITS Director, Kansas City Public Library will be the presenter. Ever noticed that your co-workers' eyes start glazing over when you describe that custom XML app? Or, ever notice your network administrator's face start to turn red as you ask yet again for a "simple" explanation of why the Internet stopped working? This session covers the basics of how to jump communication hurdles between techies and non-technical staff. The problem is defined along with the steps to take, including what to do with jargon, how to handle training sessions, how to simplify describing a solution to non-technical staff, and how to describe technical problems and projects clearly. Gain some understanding of how techies and non-techies think and some strategies to improve communication in your work environment. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, May 19, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Project Planning with Love and Logic (Models) Whitney Davison-Turley, Digital Projects Specialist, University of Kansas Medical Center Libraries will be the presenter. From the largest grant proposals to the smallest project plan, using logic models can help you develop stronger and more successful projects with assessment and evaluation built in at every step. You will love the way that logic models allow you "plan backwards and implement forwards," keeping the focus on the real impact of your program and causing all activities to feed directly into that impact. This program will discuss what a logic model is, show examples of using a logic model for writing a project plan or grant proposal, and provide resources for additional information. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, June 16, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Teen Services: Ten Ways to Give Up Control and Encourage Engagement Tricia Suellentrop, Youth Services Manager, Johnson County Library will be the presenter. ?For teens, by teens, with teens.? Teen librarians say it all the time, but what does it mean for the everyday service delivered, on the floor, and at the desk? Encouraging teen-managed services isn?t always easy; it can be time consuming, stressful and thrilling for you and the teens. But the benefits are amazing. Learn how to give up control and encourage teen-managed library services. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, July 21, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Programs for Adults at the Library Jennifer Mahnken, Adult Programming Manager, Johnson County Library will be the presenter. Planning adult programs for your library? This program will give you some ideas for programs, things to consider when planning, and ideas for promotion. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, August 18, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Delivering Top-Notch Technology Training for Your Patrons Brenda Hough, Technology Coordinator at the Northeast Kansas Library System, Michael Porter (aka Library Man), Training and Support Coordinator at OCLC Western, and Rebecca Richardson, Technology Training Specialist at the Purdue University Libraries will be the presenters. More libraries are offering technology training for staff and patrons. Learn how to use interactive techniques to address varying skill levels, adapt to multiple learning styles, and deliver technology with greater impact. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, September 15, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Community Issues Forums Donna Lauffer, Associate Director for Branches, Johnson County Library will be the presenter. Libraries can be key partners in helping to build their communities and/or to help engage citizens in decision-making. This session will introduce you to public forums using the model of deliberative dialogue. Find out how your library can be a community resource for citizens input on issues that affect everyone. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Friday, October 20, 2006 beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 10:00 a.m. Central, 9:00 a.m. Mountain, 8:00 a.m. Pacific, and 3:00 p.m. GMT: Grant Writing 101: Developing Winning Proposals Erica Reynolds, Web Content Manager, Johnson County Library will be the presenter. Have a terrific project, but need money to implement it? Learn how to find funding opportunities, review proposal guidelines, develop budgets, avoid common pitfalls, and develop successful proposals. This program is part of the Librarian's Continuing Education Seminar Series, sponsored by the Johnson County Library. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Tom Peters TAP Information Services 1000 SW 23rd Street Blue Springs, MO 64015 phone: 816-228-6406 email: tapinformation@yahoo.com web: www.tapinformation.com TAP Information Services provides a wide variety of high quality planning, consulting, research, and assessment services supporting libraries, library consortia, government agencies, professional associations, and other information-intensive organizations. From snb at uoregon.edu Mon Apr 10 17:55:55 2006 From: snb at uoregon.edu (Sara Brownmiller) Date: Mon Apr 10 17:55:58 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: There is interest here in allowing google (google the search engine, not google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many students start their research in google, they might identify information easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to materials in our digital collections and our special collections and manuscripts. Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your decision? I would also be very interested in locating some records in google that came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the catalog or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. thanks, Sara Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 541/346-2368 (voice) snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Apr 10 18:16:42 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Apr 10 18:16:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately this reminds me of the early, horrific days of Gopher, where book records from individual libraries started showing up in Veronica searches. The problem is the incredible noise that comes from locating 35,000 different records for Hamlet from 20,000 libraries worldwide, and not a clue what to do with the information. I would argue strenously against doing this, and instead allow the very rational method of OCLC's Open WorldCat project to guide users to your library. Roy On Apr 10, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > engine, not > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > students start their research in google, they might identify > information > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > manuscripts. > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > impact > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > decision? > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > that > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > catalog > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > thanks, Sara > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > 541/346-2368 (voice) > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From kgs at bluehighways.com Mon Apr 10 18:28:08 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Mon Apr 10 18:28:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c65cee$0beb7530$6401a8c0@venus> > Unfortunately this reminds me of the early, horrific days of Gopher, > where book records from individual libraries started showing up in > Veronica searches. The problem is the incredible noise that comes > from locating 35,000 different records for Hamlet from 20,000 > libraries worldwide, and not a clue what to do with the information. > I would argue strenously against doing this, and instead allow the > very rational method of OCLC's Open WorldCat project to guide users > to your library. > Roy I'm with Roy on the problem, but what I'd like to know regarding the solution is whether people are finding libraries through Open WorldCat. Is it happening? It may be rational, but are people guided to libraries through it? Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From ina.smith at up.ac.za Tue Apr 11 02:05:52 2006 From: ina.smith at up.ac.za (Ina Smith) Date: Tue Apr 11 04:21:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <000401c65cee$0beb7530$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: We have just started experimenting with GoogleScholar (I see that you specifically refer to Google, but thought this is worth mentioning anyway), using it together with a free link resolver (ScholarSFX for experimental purposes - IFLA-countries have an agreement with certain vendors to open a link resolver account free of charge). Important for us: The reason why we have started to investigate this option, was because we wanted to direct clients who use Google & GoogleScholar anyway, back to the library and make them aware of the valuable resources the library offers. GoogleScholar almost (but maybe not fully) functions like a FSE in this experimental phase, and Scholar SFX (just an example - there are many others from well known vendors) as the link resolver. Clients who prefer to search databases separately can still go ahead and conduct their searches as always. Through GoogleScholar clients are directed to books in our catalogue, as well as full text articles from platforms/e-journals/publishers to which we subscribe (authenticated through our WAM table) by using one search interface only. I agree with Roy on the terrible noise though, and hope we could maybe promote the use of very specific search strategies amongst our clients. If there are others who have experimented with the above, I would love to hear from them. Like I've said, we are still in the experimental phase with this. As with everything there are many advantages but also disadvantages. Kind regards, Ina Ina Smith E-Application Specialist Academic Information Service (Library) University of Pretoria South Africa Tel.: +27 12 420 3082 Fax: +27 12 362 5100 E-mail: ina.smith@up.ac.za This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: 11 April 2006 00:28 To: 'Web4Lib' Subject: RE: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > Unfortunately this reminds me of the early, horrific days of Gopher, > where book records from individual libraries started showing up in > Veronica searches. The problem is the incredible noise that comes > from locating 35,000 different records for Hamlet from 20,000 > libraries worldwide, and not a clue what to do with the information. > I would argue strenously against doing this, and instead allow the > very rational method of OCLC's Open WorldCat project to guide users > to your library. > Roy I'm with Roy on the problem, but what I'd like to know regarding the solution is whether people are finding libraries through Open WorldCat. Is it happening? It may be rational, but are people guided to libraries through it? Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From k.bouchard at tcu.edu Tue Apr 11 08:27:38 2006 From: k.bouchard at tcu.edu (Bouchard, Kerry) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:27:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Systems Librarian job opening at Texas Christian University, Fort Worth, TX Message-ID: <1582D4A49703CB4E8F5355A565FEBB8E2ED50C@fsmaillk1a.tcu.edu> Texas Christian University seeks a Systems Librarian to be primary support person for our ILS. Responsibilities include: troubleshooting problems and responding to user questions; implementing new software features; integration with other campus systems, such as PeopleSoft; creating/revising data loads, exports, interfaces and reports; installing system updates and upgrades; enhancing staff and user interfaces to the ILS; devising and documenting new procedures as needed; and supervising the Systems Assistant who maintains staff hardware and client-side software for the ILS. The Systems Librarian keeps abreast of developments in the field of library automation and assists in setting priorities and planning system enhancements. The position reports to the Director of Library Systems. Requirements: MLS from ALA accredited library school or a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science. Three years experience working with library automation software in the role of configuration, troubleshooting, and integration with other software products. Ability to develop and modify relational database applications using SQL-based software tools. Ability to develop and create web pages. Ability to work as a systems analyst, by translating user needs into functional specifications. Ability to communicate clearly orally and in writing. Familiarly with the MARC record format and experience using MARC records in software applications. Knowledge of library technical services workflows as they relate to an ILS. Knowledge of programming languages used in client and server side scripting. Ability to work independently. Salary: Commensurate with education and experience. $41,000 - $50,000 Desired: Experience working with the Ex Libris "Aleph 500" ILS product. Experience working with Unix-based systems. Experience with Oracle database server. Facility with MS Office suite. Supervisory experience. Project management experience. Location: Texas Christian University is located in Fort Worth, Texas. With an enrollment around 8,000, TCU offers graduate education in 48 fields and undergraduate degrees in 98 majors. The Mary Couts Burnett Library collection includes app. 2 million items and over 20,000 print and electronic journals, with about 50 full time staff. How to Apply: Candidates should send cover letter, vita, and the names of three references to Dr. June Koelker, Interim Dean of the Library, Mary Couts Burnett Library, TCU Box 298400, TCU, Fort Worth, 76129. Review of applications will begin May 20, 2006. TCU offer excellent fringe benefits, 11.5% retirement contribution after two years of service, and support for professional development. Texas has no state income tax. From campbell at virginia.edu Tue Apr 11 09:58:08 2006 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Tue Apr 11 09:58:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <024b01c65d6f$f6abb900$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> I can't answer Karen's question about use of Open WorldCat to get to libraries, but, as Ina suggested, there is another alternative and I do know something about whether that is used.. We have our Open URL resolver (Sirsi's licensed version of 1cate) turned on in Google Scholar and elsewhere, and it is set to turn any link identified as a book into a search of our opac. I can't easily break out just the Google Scholar book searches, but overall book links account for ca. 1.4% of all our resolver uses - 455 of 33.400 uses in 10 days this month. 1.4% might suggest little interest in getting to the library catalog from other types of service, but when you consider the preponderance of articles over books in most of our indexing and abstracting services, 45 links a day doesn't sound too bad. We do participate in Open WorldCat and it's a great service, but I'd guess that our users are more likely to click on a link that mentions this university specifically rather than a generic library link. - Jim Campbell Digital Access Librarian | Librarian for German E-Mail: Campbell@Virginia.Edu | Voice: 434-924-4985 Digital Access Services, University of Virginia Library http://www.lib.virginia.edu/digital/das/ From arhyno at uwindsor.ca Tue Apr 11 09:59:22 2006 From: arhyno at uwindsor.ca (arhyno@uwindsor.ca) Date: Tue Apr 11 10:01:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact >did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about >search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your >decision? If the intent is to get students aware of library resources when they are doing general google searches, a better approach might be to use google desktop and a custom plugin. This would only probably be feasible for your public machines in the library, unless the plugin is extremely seamless, but google desktop inserts local searches above general searches. You have to be devious about how you set up a plugin to do something like this, or your IT folks will not be happy, but it is feasible with enough groundwork. art --- Art Rhyno Systems Librarian Leddy Library, University of Windsor http://librarycog.uwindsor.ca From lbayre at galecia.com Tue Apr 11 10:56:40 2006 From: lbayre at galecia.com (Lori Bowen Ayre) Date: Tue Apr 11 10:56:55 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Infopeople's "Managing Your Public Access Computers" Workshop In-Reply-To: <024b01c65d6f$f6abb900$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <005301c65d78$265ac760$640fa8c0@stealth> Since some people who may be interested in attending might not receive this notice directly, we would appreciate it if you would print and post or route this announcement to staff and colleagues. Thanks! Title: Managing Public Access Computers: Best Practices Dates and locations: Monday, May 22, San Francisco Public Library Thursday, June 15, Cerritos Public Library To register for this workshop: Use the online registration form at http://infopeople.org/WS/workshop/Workshop/270 Fee: This course is offered free of charge to California public libraries with the support of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Adding public access computers to the public library environment has been a major service enhancement AND a major support headache. Luckily there are proven Best Practices that can guide you in managing these important assets. This course covers what you need to know to provide an excellent computing environment for your users while reducing the burden on staff and increasing your return on investment in public access computing. You will learn efficient strategies for: --Maintaining a standard hardware and software platform, --Having technical staff configure, rollout, and restore all of your library desktops, --Deciding when and how you should replace your public access computers, --Integrating support of your public access computers into the library's operations and budget, and --Protecting each user's privacy. While this course offers information that will be useful in any public library setting, special attention has been given to the needs of libraries that are eligible for the Gates Public Access Computer Hardware Upgrade Grant (PAC HUG). If your library will be receiving funds to replace your public access computers, this course can help guarantee that those funds will be well spent and that your public access computers will be managed as efficiently as they can be. Workshop Description: This all-day workshop is designed for public library staff that must make decisions about how to handle public access computing. It is not a highly technical course; the focus will be on understanding how to make best use of your Gates or other public access computers. Through lecture, demonstration, group exercises, and individual exercises you will be introduced to proven Best Practices that will contribute to your success. Attendees will also have an opportunity to evaluate their own libraries' public access computing environments. Participants will leave the class with practical ideas for improving the services they offer to their users and for making the management of their public access computers more efficient, cost-effective, and secure. Pre-workshop assignment: Each student should bring a list of the public access computers in their library or branch, including the following information about each computer: processor, operating system, amount of RAM, year purchased, brand, vendor/supplier. Preliminary Course Outline: Role of Public Access Computing in the Public Library --The ideal public access computer --Support for public Public Access Computer Features and Maintenance --What people need to be able to do on your computers --What people need to be prevented from doing on your computers --Approaches to configuration --Sticky configuration issues Computer Management and Configuration: Best Practices --Replacement cycle --Standardization --PC purchasing tips --Alternatives to the PC Staffing and Budgeting --How to support your public access computers --Budgeting for hardware and software --Gap analysis Workshop Instructor: Lori Bowen Ayre. Lori is the principal consultant with The Galecia Group, a library technology consulting and project management firm located in the North Bay. Lori has been on contract with Infopeople since 2000 doing work on various technology topics including reporting on Internet filters, teaching, managing projects and Infopeople's webcast program. In addition to consulting, Lori speaks and writes on numerous topics including blogging, filtering and RFID. She has her own blog, Mentat, which covers the gamut from political griping to tech tips for public libraries. Who Should Attend: This course is limited to attendees from California public libraries. It is designed for non-technical managers and supervisors of computer support staff, professional staff in facilities that offer public access computing, as well as anyone from a California public library who is interested in how public access computers should be set-up, supported, and maintained. Although technical issues will be discussed, this workshop is not designed for technical staff. Other Logistics: *On-site check-in is from 8:30-9:00 AM; instruction is from 9:00 AM-4:30 PM. *Maps, directions, and parking information are available on the Infopeople Web site at http://infopeople.org/WS/workshop/Directions. Infopeople does not validate or pay for parking. *Infopeople does not provide refreshments or lunch. Since some training locations do not have in-house or convenient food service, Infopeople recommends that participants bring a sack lunch. To view a complete list of Infopeople workshops and for general information about Infopeople training opportunities, go to the main Infopeople Workshops page at http://infopeople.org/WS/workshop If you have questions about registration or scheduling of workshops, please contact Linda Rodenspiel, the Infopeople Project Assistant, at assist@infopeople.org or by phone at 650-578-9685. From cbisson at plymouth.edu Tue Apr 11 13:45:29 2006 From: cbisson at plymouth.edu (Casey Bisson) Date: Tue Apr 11 13:45:40 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B0FE71-4748-471F-A1B3-F48EE13581E0@plymouth.edu> Sara, With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources findable and available to those users. Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index and find. But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth our effort. That's the philosophy, here's some practice: WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University catalog received in 12 months last year. 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger Casey Bisson __________________________________________ e-Learning Application Developer Plymouth State University Plymouth, New Hampshire http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ ph: 603-535-2256 On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > engine, not > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > students start their research in google, they might identify > information > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > manuscripts. > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > impact > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > decision? > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > that > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > catalog > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > thanks, Sara > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > 541/346-2368 (voice) > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Tue Apr 11 15:12:02 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Tue Apr 11 15:12:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <49B0FE71-4748-471F-A1B3-F48EE13581E0@plymouth.edu> References: <49B0FE71-4748-471F-A1B3-F48EE13581E0@plymouth.edu> Message-ID: <23b83f160604111212o649c7902l98caec7a133ec724@mail.gmail.com> Right, but I think Roy's point is that that's gonna suck if we all do it. -Ross. On 4/11/06, Casey Bisson wrote: > > Sara, > > With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given > day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per > month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources > findable and available to those users. > > Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a > giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already > familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're > familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways > that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index > and find. > > But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number > of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the > knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth > our effort. > > That's the philosophy, here's some practice: > > WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources > by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's > already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show > that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for > terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted > suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less > than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, > it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my > own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University > catalog received in 12 months last year. > > 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ > > 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy > > 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger > > Casey Bisson > __________________________________________ > > e-Learning Application Developer > Plymouth State University > Plymouth, New Hampshire > http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ > ph: 603-535-2256 > > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > > > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > > engine, not > > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > > students start their research in google, they might identify > > information > > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > > manuscripts. > > > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > > impact > > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > > decision? > > > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > > that > > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > > catalog > > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > > > thanks, Sara > > > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > > 541/346-2368 (voice) > > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From stearcs at auburn.edu Tue Apr 11 15:38:15 2006 From: stearcs at auburn.edu (Chris Stearns) Date: Tue Apr 11 15:33:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <23b83f160604111212o649c7902l98caec7a133ec724@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B0FE71-4748-471F-A1B3-F48EE13581E0@plymouth.edu> <23b83f160604111212o649c7902l98caec7a133ec724@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <443C05A7.8010606@auburn.edu> Yeah, that would suck if everyone did it because the world's Googlers are looking for the info itself. For the most part, they want the text of Hamlet, not a record for my library's Hamlet holdings (much less 20,000!). If there were a way to specify via Google that you're searching for Hamlet holdings at any library within 30 miles of you, then let Google, Google Maps, etc. find it all for you then spit out directions and the reference librarian's name, that might be kinda cool, but it would have to be one of those "tucked-away" Google features that you have to specifically call and which isn't enabled by default, else the 20,000 Hamlets (and having studied Hamlet for an entire semester in grad school, 1 hamlet is definitely enough :-) -- Chris Stearns Software/Programming Auburn University Libraries http://www.lib.auburn.edu From dwalker at csusm.edu Tue Apr 11 15:33:49 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Tue Apr 11 15:33:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> Sara, Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might want to consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing your own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your users start their research there or in another search engine. But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of Stuff is kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't get as big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your advertising on people who will actually find it useful and meaningful can be far more effective. Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to invest resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the University of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, and the current level of integration between library systems and learning management systems could be greatly improved. You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they actually result in check-outs. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Cc: Sara Brownmiller Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Sara, With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources findable and available to those users. Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index and find. But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth our effort. That's the philosophy, here's some practice: WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University catalog received in 12 months last year. 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger Casey Bisson __________________________________________ e-Learning Application Developer Plymouth State University Plymouth, New Hampshire http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ ph: 603-535-2256 On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > engine, not > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > students start their research in google, they might identify > information > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > manuscripts. > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > impact > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > decision? > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > that > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > catalog > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > thanks, Sara > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > 541/346-2368 (voice) > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From cbisson at plymouth.edu Tue Apr 11 15:53:48 2006 From: cbisson at plymouth.edu (Casey Bisson) Date: Tue Apr 11 15:53:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <9E96C2D0-E095-4D6F-A60D-82F4DDC15256@plymouth.edu> David, your suggestion that we build library systems that can be easily integrated within other systems such as learning management systems is well put. The time has passed where library activities were restricted to those occurring within the library, and we now have to think about how our resources will be used in a variety of electronic environments. The cornerstones of the Google economy -- indexability and linkability -- do well to serve our needs not only in LMSs and academic portals, but also in our email or IM communications and in environments even further afield, such as blogs or Facebook. Thank you, --Casey On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:33 PM, David Walker wrote: > Sara, > > Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might want to > consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing your > own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. > > Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your users > start their research there or in another search engine. > > But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of Stuff is > kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national > television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't get as > big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your > advertising on people who will actually find it useful and meaningful > can be far more effective. > > Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to invest > resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning > management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the > University > of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, > and > the current level of integration between library systems and learning > management systems could be greatly improved. > > You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google > result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high > enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they > actually result in check-outs. > > --Dave > > ========================= > David Walker > Web Development Librarian > Library, Cal State San Marcos > 760-750-4379 > http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > ========================= > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Cc: Sara Brownmiller > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > Sara, > > With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given > day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per > month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources > findable and available to those users. > > Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a > giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already > familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're > familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways > that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index > and find. > > But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number > of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the > knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth > our effort. > > That's the philosophy, here's some practice: > > WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources > by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's > already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show > that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for > terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted > suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less > than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, > it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my > own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University > catalog received in 12 months last year. > > 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ > > 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy > > 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger > > Casey Bisson > __________________________________________ > > e-Learning Application Developer > Plymouth State University > Plymouth, New Hampshire > http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ > ph: 603-535-2256 > > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > >> >> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search >> engine, not >> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many >> students start their research in google, they might identify >> information >> easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to >> materials in our digital collections and our special collections and >> manuscripts. >> >> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What >> impact >> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy >> about >> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your >> decision? >> >> I would also be very interested in locating some records in google >> that >> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the >> catalog >> or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. >> >> thanks, Sara >> >> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries >> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon >> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 >> 541/346-2368 (voice) >> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Tue Apr 11 16:03:46 2006 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:03:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: David inspires two completely contradictory visions for where we're going: -- Integrate the library catalog, the library full text database subscriptions, the library's own e-text holdings, etc. all into the learning management system, and then all into one giant campus student portal. Some instiutions, such as U Minnesota, already have very effective student portals. One stop shopping for the course experience and for library resources you need to be effective. -- Google renames Google Scholar as Google Homework. Google Homework knows your locale and your institutional affiliations. You search for Hamlet and Google Homework offers you links to books in the U library that contain the full text of Hamlet, books commenting on Hamlet, links to full text and paper holdings of journals with articles about Hamlet, a link to the student theater's upcoming production of Hamlet. Google Homework also knows that you live at Chandler Crossing 5 miles north of campus, so it offers links to similar resources at the nearby East Lansing Public Library. And maps and hours of operation. And Facebook links for students taking the giant lecture class the same time you are. With ads for tutors who can help you understand Hamlet, for Cliff Notes and the like, for course notes taken by paid note takers who took your English class last semester, for past midterm and final exams, and for online term paper mills where you can order your Hamlet paper for instant delivery. Hmmmm. Which vision do you think will win? /rich On 4/11/06, David Walker wrote: > > Sara, > > Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might want to > consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing your > own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. > > Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your users > start their research there or in another search engine. > > But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of Stuff is > kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national > television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't get as > big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your > advertising on people who will actually find it useful and meaningful > can be far more effective. > > Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to invest > resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning > management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the University > of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, and > the current level of integration between library systems and learning > management systems could be greatly improved. > > You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google > result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high > enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they > actually result in check-outs. > > --Dave > > ========================= > David Walker > Web Development Librarian > Library, Cal State San Marcos > 760-750-4379 > http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > ========================= > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Cc: Sara Brownmiller > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > Sara, > > With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given > day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per > month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources > findable and available to those users. > > Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a > giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already > familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're > familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways > that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index > and find. > > But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number > of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the > knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth > our effort. > > That's the philosophy, here's some practice: > > WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources > by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's > already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show > that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for > terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted > suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less > than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, > it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my > own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University > catalog received in 12 months last year. > > 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ > > 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy > > 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger > > Casey Bisson > __________________________________________ > > e-Learning Application Developer > Plymouth State University > Plymouth, New Hampshire > http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ > ph: 603-535-2256 > > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > > > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > > engine, not > > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > > students start their research in google, they might identify > > information > > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > > manuscripts. > > > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > > impact > > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > > decision? > > > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > > that > > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > > catalog > > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > > > thanks, Sara > > > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > > 541/346-2368 (voice) > > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From campbell at virginia.edu Tue Apr 11 16:23:58 2006 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:23:55 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501c65da5$dd1c8a60$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Note that through open URL Google Scholar already can do most of the things in this paragraph from Rich's message. You're identified with an institutional IP address, but you can also customize GS to include links from up to 3 resolvers. But it's up to you and your student theatre to figure out a way to get their production included. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Richard Wiggins > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:04 PM > To: Web4Lib > Cc: Sara Brownmiller > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > David inspires two completely contradictory visions for where > we're going: .......................... > > -- Google renames Google Scholar as Google Homework. Google > Homework knows your locale and your institutional > affiliations. You search for Hamlet and Google Homework > offers you links to books in the U library that contain the > full text of Hamlet, books commenting on Hamlet, links to > full text and paper holdings of journals with articles about > Hamlet, a link to the student theater's upcoming production > of Hamlet. Google Homework also knows that you live at > Chandler Crossing 5 miles north of campus, so it offers links > to similar resources at the nearby East Lansing Public > Library. ............................... From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Tue Apr 11 16:26:58 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:27:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: Rich, But what you fail to point out (which I take to be an error of omission not of commission) is that your second scenario still relies on many of the systems you mention in your first scenario. This means this is not an either/or, win/lose situation where Google eats our lunch. In order for Google to even produce a system such as you describe they need access to the information -- our information. And forking it over once won't do the trick, there must be an ongoing relationship. Therefore, either scenario demands that our systems interoperate much better than they do now. And neither scenario would necessarily destroy the other. Let a thousand interoperable solutions bloom. Roy On Apr 11, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Richard Wiggins wrote: > David inspires two completely contradictory visions for where we're > going: > > -- Integrate the library catalog, the library full text database > subscriptions, the library's own e-text holdings, etc. all into the > learning > management system, and then all into one giant campus student > portal. Some > instiutions, such as U Minnesota, already have very effective student > portals. One stop shopping for the course experience and for library > resources you need to be effective. > > -- Google renames Google Scholar as Google Homework. Google > Homework knows > your locale and your institutional affiliations. You search for > Hamlet and > Google Homework offers you links to books in the U library that > contain the > full text of Hamlet, books commenting on Hamlet, links to full text > and > paper holdings of journals with articles about Hamlet, a link to > the student > theater's upcoming production of Hamlet. Google Homework also > knows that > you live at Chandler Crossing 5 miles north of campus, so it offers > links to > similar resources at the nearby East Lansing Public Library. And maps > and hours of operation. And Facebook links for students taking the > giant > lecture class the same time you are. > > With ads for tutors who can help you understand Hamlet, for Cliff > Notes and > the like, for course notes taken by paid note takers who took your > English > class last semester, for past midterm and final exams, and for > online term > paper mills where you can order your Hamlet paper for instant > delivery. > > Hmmmm. Which vision do you think will win? > > /rich > > On 4/11/06, David Walker wrote: >> >> Sara, >> >> Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might >> want to >> consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing >> your >> own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. >> >> Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your >> users >> start their research there or in another search engine. >> >> But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of >> Stuff is >> kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national >> television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't get as >> big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your >> advertising on people who will actually find it useful and meaningful >> can be far more effective. >> >> Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to invest >> resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning >> management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the >> University >> of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core >> audience, and >> the current level of integration between library systems and learning >> management systems could be greatly improved. >> >> You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google >> result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high >> enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they >> actually result in check-outs. >> >> --Dave >> >> ========================= >> David Walker >> Web Development Librarian >> Library, Cal State San Marcos >> 760-750-4379 >> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker >> ========================= >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson >> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >> Cc: Sara Brownmiller >> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs >> >> Sara, >> >> With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given >> day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per >> month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources >> findable and available to those users. >> >> Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a >> giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already >> familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're >> familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways >> that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index >> and find. >> >> But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number >> of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the >> knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth >> our effort. >> >> That's the philosophy, here's some practice: >> >> WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources >> by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's >> already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show >> that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for >> terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted >> suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less >> than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, >> it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my >> own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University >> catalog received in 12 months last year. >> >> 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ >> >> 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy >> >> 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger >> >> Casey Bisson >> __________________________________________ >> >> e-Learning Application Developer >> Plymouth State University >> Plymouth, New Hampshire >> http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ >> ph: 603-535-2256 >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: >> >>> >>> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search >>> engine, not >>> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since >>> many >>> students start their research in google, they might identify >>> information >>> easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to >>> materials in our digital collections and our special collections and >>> manuscripts. >>> >>> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What >>> impact >>> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy >>> about >>> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your >>> decision? >>> >>> I would also be very interested in locating some records in google >>> that >>> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the >>> catalog >>> or to see how the material is identified with a specific >>> institution. >>> >>> thanks, Sara >>> >>> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries >>> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon >>> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 >>> 541/346-2368 (voice) >>> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Web4lib mailing list >>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From abrin at brynmawr.edu Tue Apr 11 16:33:10 2006 From: abrin at brynmawr.edu (Adam Brin) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:33:26 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <9E96C2D0-E095-4D6F-A60D-82F4DDC15256@plymouth.edu> Message-ID: A note on practicality: Whether intentional or not, having search engines crawl library catalogs is technically problematic in most cases. From experience, we've had the big three crawl our catalog and to be quite honest, they get tied up in Knots. To be more specific, search engines (a) have a hard time crawling catalogs because they're webs of highly interconnected pages [one might argue even more maze like than other sites] and (b) most don't have that many entry points in. A search engine doesn't use a 'search box' on your site, and must be led into the catalog via a set of links to a record, or record set. Peronally: I really agree with Roy, about working through groups such as OCLC and the OpenWorldCat implementation to get the library 'face time'. In reality the more catalogs that open to google, the harder it would be for our catalog records to be found. WorldCat has more cache in what casey calls the google economy than any one of us could separately, and it's working on our behalf. - adam brin ------------------------------------- Tri-Colleges Systems Coordinator Bryn Mawr | Haverford | Swarthmore http://tripod.brynmawr.edu On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: > > > David, > > your suggestion that we build library systems that can be easily > integrated within other systems such as learning management systems > is well put. > > The time has passed where library activities were restricted to those > occurring within the library, and we now have to think about how our > resources will be used in a variety of electronic environments. The > cornerstones of the Google economy -- indexability and linkability -- > do well to serve our needs not only in LMSs and academic portals, but > also in our email or IM communications and in environments even > further afield, such as blogs or Facebook. > > Thank you, > > --Casey > > > > > On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:33 PM, David Walker wrote: > > > Sara, > > > > Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might want to > > consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing your > > own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. > > > > Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your users > > start their research there or in another search engine. > > > > But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of Stuff is > > kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national > > television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't get as > > big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your > > advertising on people who will actually find it useful and meaningful > > can be far more effective. > > > > Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to invest > > resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning > > management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the > > University > > of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, > > and > > the current level of integration between library systems and learning > > management systems could be greatly improved. > > > > You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google > > result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high > > enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they > > actually result in check-outs. > > > > --Dave > > > > ========================= > > David Walker > > Web Development Librarian > > Library, Cal State San Marcos > > 760-750-4379 > > http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > > ========================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson > > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM > > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > > Cc: Sara Brownmiller > > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > > > Sara, > > > > With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given > > day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per > > month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources > > findable and available to those users. > > > > Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it as a > > giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already > > familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're > > familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways > > that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index > > and find. > > > > But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number > > of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the > > knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth > > our effort. > > > > That's the philosophy, here's some practice: > > > > WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources > > by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's > > already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show > > that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for > > terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and "assisted > > suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less > > than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, > > it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my > > own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University > > catalog received in 12 months last year. > > > > 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ > > > > 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy > > > > 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger > > > > Casey Bisson > > __________________________________________ > > > > e-Learning Application Developer > > Plymouth State University > > Plymouth, New Hampshire > > http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ > > ph: 603-535-2256 > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > > > >> > >> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > >> engine, not > >> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > >> students start their research in google, they might identify > >> information > >> easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > >> materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > >> manuscripts. > >> > >> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > >> impact > >> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy > >> about > >> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > >> decision? > >> > >> I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > >> that > >> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > >> catalog > >> or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > >> > >> thanks, Sara > >> > >> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > >> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > >> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > >> 541/346-2368 (voice) > >> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Web4lib mailing list > >> Web4lib@webjunction.org > >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From cbisson at plymouth.edu Tue Apr 11 16:49:56 2006 From: cbisson at plymouth.edu (Casey Bisson) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:50:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > having search engines crawl library catalogs > is technically problematic in most cases Technical problems, yes, but not insoluble problems. Every link into the catalog (and we need to support those for a number of reasons) becomes a new access point. From there a spider can find lists of other works by the same author(s) and other works within the same subject(s). depending on how deep the spider crawls, we may quickly find huge numbers of indexed resources from a small number of inbound links. And when that fails, search engines offer us other solutions, including Google's site maps and others. Now, understanding that links are the lucre of the Google Economy, let me pose this question: what happens when all of our distributed, indexable catalogs sport links from their records to the OpenWorldCat record for those items? How much more relevant does OWC then become? How much more findable do all our resources become? --Casey On Apr 11, 2006, at 4:33 PM, Adam Brin wrote: > A note on practicality: > > Whether intentional or not, having search engines crawl library > catalogs > is technically problematic in most cases. From experience, we've > had the > big three crawl our catalog and to be quite honest, they get tied > up in > Knots. To be more specific, search engines (a) have a hard time > crawling > catalogs because they're webs of highly interconnected pages [one > might > argue even more maze like than other sites] and (b) most don't have > that > many entry points in. A search engine doesn't use a 'search box' > on your > site, and must be led into the catalog via a set of links to a > record, or > record set. > > Peronally: > I really agree with Roy, about working through groups such as OCLC > and the > OpenWorldCat implementation to get the library 'face time'. In > reality > the more catalogs that open to google, the harder it would be for our > catalog records to be found. WorldCat has more cache in what casey > calls > the google economy than any one of us could separately, and it's > working > on our behalf. > > - adam brin > ------------------------------------- > Tri-Colleges Systems Coordinator > Bryn Mawr | Haverford | Swarthmore > http://tripod.brynmawr.edu > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: > >> >> >> David, >> >> your suggestion that we build library systems that can be easily >> integrated within other systems such as learning management systems >> is well put. >> >> The time has passed where library activities were restricted to those >> occurring within the library, and we now have to think about how our >> resources will be used in a variety of electronic environments. The >> cornerstones of the Google economy -- indexability and linkability -- >> do well to serve our needs not only in LMSs and academic portals, but >> also in our email or IM communications and in environments even >> further afield, such as blogs or Facebook. >> >> Thank you, >> >> --Casey >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:33 PM, David Walker wrote: >> >>> Sara, >>> >>> Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might >>> want to >>> consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing >>> your >>> own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. >>> >>> Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your >>> users >>> start their research there or in another search engine. >>> >>> But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of >>> Stuff is >>> kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national >>> television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't >>> get as >>> big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your >>> advertising on people who will actually find it useful and >>> meaningful >>> can be far more effective. >>> >>> Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to >>> invest >>> resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning >>> management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the >>> University >>> of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, >>> and >>> the current level of integration between library systems and >>> learning >>> management systems could be greatly improved. >>> >>> You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google >>> result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high >>> enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they >>> actually result in check-outs. >>> >>> --Dave >>> >>> ========================= >>> David Walker >>> Web Development Librarian >>> Library, Cal State San Marcos >>> 760-750-4379 >>> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker >>> ========================= >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM >>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>> Cc: Sara Brownmiller >>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs >>> >>> Sara, >>> >>> With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given >>> day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per >>> month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources >>> findable and available to those users. >>> >>> Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it >>> as a >>> giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already >>> familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're >>> familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways >>> that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index >>> and find. >>> >>> But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number >>> of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the >>> knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth >>> our effort. >>> >>> That's the philosophy, here's some practice: >>> >>> WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources >>> by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's >>> already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show >>> that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for >>> terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and >>> "assisted >>> suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less >>> than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, >>> it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my >>> own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University >>> catalog received in 12 months last year. >>> >>> 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ >>> >>> 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy >>> >>> 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger >>> >>> Casey Bisson >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> e-Learning Application Developer >>> Plymouth State University >>> Plymouth, New Hampshire >>> http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ >>> ph: 603-535-2256 >>> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search >>>> engine, not >>>> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since >>>> many >>>> students start their research in google, they might identify >>>> information >>>> easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to >>>> materials in our digital collections and our special collections >>>> and >>>> manuscripts. >>>> >>>> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What >>>> impact >>>> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy >>>> about >>>> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your >>>> decision? >>>> >>>> I would also be very interested in locating some records in google >>>> that >>>> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the >>>> catalog >>>> or to see how the material is identified with a specific >>>> institution. >>>> >>>> thanks, Sara >>>> >>>> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries >>>> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon >>>> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 >>>> 541/346-2368 (voice) >>>> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Web4lib mailing list >>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> From dwalker at csusm.edu Tue Apr 11 16:53:58 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:54:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE5CB@priority.csusm.edu> I do enjoy the philosophical discussions, but to add a bit of practicality to this one: I have no idea whether Google is building the Ideal Homework System or not. If they are, perhaps that system will become wildly popular -- although they'll never be able to integrate it into our student information system or course management system in the way we could. If they aren't, then . . . well, they aren't. Either way, I can't wait for this or any other corporation to decide the fate of my organization. I'm going to aim my resources at the vision that is real and tangible now, and look for ways to make that system more precisely attuned to the needs of my users than what any monolithic world-wide homework engine could provide. But, to take-up both Casey and Roy's points: If we get our own technical infrastructures in order and build easily Integrateable systems, then we can truly have our Google integration and Learning Management System too. And whatever big thing comes after that. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:27 PM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Rich, But what you fail to point out (which I take to be an error of omission not of commission) is that your second scenario still relies on many of the systems you mention in your first scenario. This means this is not an either/or, win/lose situation where Google eats our lunch. In order for Google to even produce a system such as you describe they need access to the information -- our information. And forking it over once won't do the trick, there must be an ongoing relationship. Therefore, either scenario demands that our systems interoperate much better than they do now. And neither scenario would necessarily destroy the other. Let a thousand interoperable solutions bloom. Roy On Apr 11, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Richard Wiggins wrote: > David inspires two completely contradictory visions for where we're > going: > > -- Integrate the library catalog, the library full text database > subscriptions, the library's own e-text holdings, etc. all into the > learning > management system, and then all into one giant campus student > portal. Some > instiutions, such as U Minnesota, already have very effective student > portals. One stop shopping for the course experience and for library > resources you need to be effective. > > -- Google renames Google Scholar as Google Homework. Google > Homework knows > your locale and your institutional affiliations. You search for > Hamlet and > Google Homework offers you links to books in the U library that > contain the > full text of Hamlet, books commenting on Hamlet, links to full text > and > paper holdings of journals with articles about Hamlet, a link to > the student > theater's upcoming production of Hamlet. Google Homework also > knows that > you live at Chandler Crossing 5 miles north of campus, so it offers > links to > similar resources at the nearby East Lansing Public Library. And maps > and hours of operation. And Facebook links for students taking the > giant > lecture class the same time you are. > > With ads for tutors who can help you understand Hamlet, for Cliff > Notes and > the like, for course notes taken by paid note takers who took your > English > class last semester, for past midterm and final exams, and for > online term > paper mills where you can order your Hamlet paper for instant > delivery. > > Hmmmm. Which vision do you think will win? > > /rich > From daskey at ksu.edu Tue Apr 11 16:58:22 2006 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Tue Apr 11 16:58:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443C186E.1070403@ksu.edu> This has been an interesting thread to follow. Here are a couple of other things that get at Sara's question. - A library consortium in Germany used a unique method to open up their catalog (~10 million titles) to search engines. In a very brief nutshell, they exported a subset of RVK subject headings (about 47,000) to Plone and let Google loose (i.e.- put them on a Web-accessible server) on the Plone pages. When one of those pages is called from Google search results, it runs a live query on the catalog and presents the first 50 or so results that bear that subject heading, with a link to the remainder. Full details here if your German is up to snuff http://www.opus-bayern.de/bib-info/volltexte/2005/108/) or, if not, a sample search where their service comes up number one in the results http://www.google.de/search?q=Stabilitaetspolitik It's very nifty and creative, but the first question when this was presented at a conference came from Ross Singer's German Doppelg?nger who said, to paraphrase, this sucks. What he meant by that was that for him, who lives in northern Germany, seeing the library results from southern Germany was nothing more than search result spamming. Harsh words, but true, of course. As has been mentioned, ventures such as OpenWorldCat get around that geographic binding, if only to a degree. - Another way to do this: buy a Google Search Appliance and index your own OPAC for local use. We're acquiring just such a box within the next few weeks and plan to unleash it upon at least a subset of our catalog (the GSA license allows only 500,000 objects or database lines unless you buy more) to see how well this works, if at all. I'm optimistic, but am sure that I'm missing something obvious that will make a hash of it. Dale Sara Brownmiller wrote: > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search engine, not > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > students start their research in google, they might identify information > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > manuscripts. > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > decision? > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google that > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the catalog > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > thanks, Sara > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > 541/346-2368 (voice) > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From abrin at brynmawr.edu Tue Apr 11 17:04:36 2006 From: abrin at brynmawr.edu (Adam Brin) Date: Tue Apr 11 17:05:43 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: True ... but you're giving to much credit to the intelligence of the spiders. Our opac was open to search engines for at least 6 months, and could be seen in our stats constantly until we cut them off. In looking at the OPAC search stats, they are so heavily weighted against a very small set of resources that it seems pretty clear that the search engines are not really doing a good job of spidering. The reality is, that our OPAC's aren't designed for Spiders, there are tremendously more valuable site structures that would enable them to be spidered. The relationships are there, but the URL and file structure isn't. Special site-maps might help. I do like the idea of increasing the relevance of "Trusted Provider" such as OWC though. It would be really nice to see all of their 'coverage data' be enabled as an alternate relevancy model too, combined with things like citation data this could be pretty powerful. - adam On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: > > > > having search engines crawl library catalogs > > is technically problematic in most cases > > Technical problems, yes, but not insoluble problems. > > Every link into the catalog (and we need to support those for a > number of reasons) becomes a new access point. From there a spider > can find lists of other works by the same author(s) and other works > within the same subject(s). depending on how deep the spider crawls, > we may quickly find huge numbers of indexed resources from a small > number of inbound links. And when that fails, search engines offer us > other solutions, including Google's site maps and others. > > Now, understanding that links are the lucre of the Google Economy, > let me pose this question: what happens when all of our distributed, > indexable catalogs sport links from their records to the OpenWorldCat > record for those items? How much more relevant does OWC then become? > How much more findable do all our resources become? > > --Casey > > > On Apr 11, 2006, at 4:33 PM, Adam Brin wrote: > > > A note on practicality: > > > > Whether intentional or not, having search engines crawl library > > catalogs > > is technically problematic in most cases. From experience, we've > > had the > > big three crawl our catalog and to be quite honest, they get tied > > up in > > Knots. To be more specific, search engines (a) have a hard time > > crawling > > catalogs because they're webs of highly interconnected pages [one > > might > > argue even more maze like than other sites] and (b) most don't have > > that > > many entry points in. A search engine doesn't use a 'search box' > > on your > > site, and must be led into the catalog via a set of links to a > > record, or > > record set. > > > > Peronally: > > I really agree with Roy, about working through groups such as OCLC > > and the > > OpenWorldCat implementation to get the library 'face time'. In > > reality > > the more catalogs that open to google, the harder it would be for our > > catalog records to be found. WorldCat has more cache in what casey > > calls > > the google economy than any one of us could separately, and it's > > working > > on our behalf. > > > > - adam brin > > ------------------------------------- > > Tri-Colleges Systems Coordinator > > Bryn Mawr | Haverford | Swarthmore > > http://tripod.brynmawr.edu > > > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> David, > >> > >> your suggestion that we build library systems that can be easily > >> integrated within other systems such as learning management systems > >> is well put. > >> > >> The time has passed where library activities were restricted to those > >> occurring within the library, and we now have to think about how our > >> resources will be used in a variety of electronic environments. The > >> cornerstones of the Google economy -- indexability and linkability -- > >> do well to serve our needs not only in LMSs and academic portals, but > >> also in our email or IM communications and in environments even > >> further afield, such as blogs or Facebook. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> --Casey > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:33 PM, David Walker wrote: > >> > >>> Sara, > >>> > >>> Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might > >>> want to > >>> consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing > >>> your > >>> own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. > >>> > >>> Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your > >>> users > >>> start their research there or in another search engine. > >>> > >>> But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of > >>> Stuff is > >>> kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national > >>> television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't > >>> get as > >>> big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your > >>> advertising on people who will actually find it useful and > >>> meaningful > >>> can be far more effective. > >>> > >>> Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to > >>> invest > >>> resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning > >>> management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the > >>> University > >>> of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core audience, > >>> and > >>> the current level of integration between library systems and > >>> learning > >>> management systems could be greatly improved. > >>> > >>> You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a Google > >>> result set (although most of your records probably won't appear high > >>> enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless they > >>> actually result in check-outs. > >>> > >>> --Dave > >>> > >>> ========================= > >>> David Walker > >>> Web Development Librarian > >>> Library, Cal State San Marcos > >>> 760-750-4379 > >>> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > >>> ========================= > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > >>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM > >>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org > >>> Cc: Sara Brownmiller > >>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > >>> > >>> Sara, > >>> > >>> With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given > >>> day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per > >>> month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources > >>> findable and available to those users. > >>> > >>> Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it > >>> as a > >>> giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already > >>> familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're > >>> familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in ways > >>> that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to index > >>> and find. > >>> > >>> But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good number > >>> of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the > >>> knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's worth > >>> our effort. > >>> > >>> That's the philosophy, here's some practice: > >>> > >>> WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our resources > >>> by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's > >>> already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs show > >>> that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for > >>> terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and > >>> "assisted > >>> suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less > >>> than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, > >>> it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my > >>> own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University > >>> catalog received in 12 months last year. > >>> > >>> 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ > >>> > >>> 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy > >>> > >>> 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger > >>> > >>> Casey Bisson > >>> __________________________________________ > >>> > >>> e-Learning Application Developer > >>> Plymouth State University > >>> Plymouth, New Hampshire > >>> http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ > >>> ph: 603-535-2256 > >>> > >>> > >>> On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search > >>>> engine, not > >>>> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since > >>>> many > >>>> students start their research in google, they might identify > >>>> information > >>>> easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > >>>> materials in our digital collections and our special collections > >>>> and > >>>> manuscripts. > >>>> > >>>> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What > >>>> impact > >>>> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy > >>>> about > >>>> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > >>>> decision? > >>>> > >>>> I would also be very interested in locating some records in google > >>>> that > >>>> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the > >>>> catalog > >>>> or to see how the material is identified with a specific > >>>> institution. > >>>> > >>>> thanks, Sara > >>>> > >>>> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > >>>> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > >>>> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > >>>> 541/346-2368 (voice) > >>>> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Web4lib mailing list > >>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org > >>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Web4lib mailing list > >>> Web4lib@webjunction.org > >>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Web4lib mailing list > >> Web4lib@webjunction.org > >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >> > From cbisson at plymouth.edu Tue Apr 11 17:11:49 2006 From: cbisson at plymouth.edu (Casey Bisson) Date: Tue Apr 11 17:11:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4453949E-D9A5-45DB-A07C-931619C3DAE1@plymouth.edu> > The reality is that our OPAC's aren't designed for Spiders Exactly: our systems fail us in the Google Economy. We can fix that. On Apr 11, 2006, at 5:04 PM, Adam Brin wrote: > True ... but you're giving to much credit to the intelligence of the > spiders. Our opac was open to search engines for at least 6 months, > and could be seen in our stats constantly until we cut them off. In > looking at the OPAC search stats, they are so heavily weighted > against a > very small set of resources that it seems pretty clear that the search > engines are not really doing a good job of spidering. > > The reality is, that our OPAC's aren't designed for Spiders, there are > tremendously more valuable site structures that would enable them > to be > spidered. The relationships are there, but the URL and file structure > isn't. Special site-maps might help. I do like the idea of > increasing > the relevance of "Trusted Provider" such as OWC though. It would be > really nice to see all of their 'coverage data' be enabled as an > alternate > relevancy model too, combined with things like citation data this > could be > pretty powerful. > > - adam > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: > >> >> >>> having search engines crawl library catalogs >>> is technically problematic in most cases >> >> Technical problems, yes, but not insoluble problems. >> >> Every link into the catalog (and we need to support those for a >> number of reasons) becomes a new access point. From there a spider >> can find lists of other works by the same author(s) and other works >> within the same subject(s). depending on how deep the spider crawls, >> we may quickly find huge numbers of indexed resources from a small >> number of inbound links. And when that fails, search engines offer us >> other solutions, including Google's site maps and others. >> >> Now, understanding that links are the lucre of the Google Economy, >> let me pose this question: what happens when all of our distributed, >> indexable catalogs sport links from their records to the OpenWorldCat >> record for those items? How much more relevant does OWC then become? >> How much more findable do all our resources become? >> >> --Casey >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2006, at 4:33 PM, Adam Brin wrote: >> >>> A note on practicality: >>> >>> Whether intentional or not, having search engines crawl library >>> catalogs >>> is technically problematic in most cases. From experience, we've >>> had the >>> big three crawl our catalog and to be quite honest, they get tied >>> up in >>> Knots. To be more specific, search engines (a) have a hard time >>> crawling >>> catalogs because they're webs of highly interconnected pages [one >>> might >>> argue even more maze like than other sites] and (b) most don't have >>> that >>> many entry points in. A search engine doesn't use a 'search box' >>> on your >>> site, and must be led into the catalog via a set of links to a >>> record, or >>> record set. >>> >>> Peronally: >>> I really agree with Roy, about working through groups such as OCLC >>> and the >>> OpenWorldCat implementation to get the library 'face time'. In >>> reality >>> the more catalogs that open to google, the harder it would be for >>> our >>> catalog records to be found. WorldCat has more cache in what casey >>> calls >>> the google economy than any one of us could separately, and it's >>> working >>> on our behalf. >>> >>> - adam brin >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Tri-Colleges Systems Coordinator >>> Bryn Mawr | Haverford | Swarthmore >>> http://tripod.brynmawr.edu >>> >>> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Casey Bisson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> David, >>>> >>>> your suggestion that we build library systems that can be easily >>>> integrated within other systems such as learning management systems >>>> is well put. >>>> >>>> The time has passed where library activities were restricted to >>>> those >>>> occurring within the library, and we now have to think about how >>>> our >>>> resources will be used in a variety of electronic environments. The >>>> cornerstones of the Google economy -- indexability and >>>> linkability -- >>>> do well to serve our needs not only in LMSs and academic >>>> portals, but >>>> also in our email or IM communications and in environments even >>>> further afield, such as blogs or Facebook. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> --Casey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:33 PM, David Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sara, >>>>> >>>>> Putting your digital collections aside for a second, you might >>>>> want to >>>>> consider whether Google really is the best mechanism for exposing >>>>> your >>>>> own users at the University of Oregon to your collections. >>>>> >>>>> Google is, of course, popular and sexy; and no doubt all of your >>>>> users >>>>> start their research there or in another search engine. >>>>> >>>>> But throwing your catalog records into the Great Big Index Of >>>>> Stuff is >>>>> kind of like your local mom-and-pop supermarket using national >>>>> television networks to advertise a sale on oranges. You won't >>>>> get as >>>>> big a reach advertising in the local newspaper, but focusing your >>>>> advertising on people who will actually find it useful and >>>>> meaningful >>>>> can be far more effective. >>>>> >>>>> Given limited budgets and resources, I would personally opt to >>>>> invest >>>>> resources into integrating your collections into whatever learning >>>>> management system(s) and/or portal you all have there at the >>>>> University >>>>> of Oregon. Those systems are *heavily* used by your core >>>>> audience, >>>>> and >>>>> the current level of integration between library systems and >>>>> learning >>>>> management systems could be greatly improved. >>>>> >>>>> You may not get as many visits as from a high placement in a >>>>> Google >>>>> result set (although most of your records probably won't appear >>>>> high >>>>> enough to be effective anyway), but visits mean nothing unless >>>>> they >>>>> actually result in check-outs. >>>>> >>>>> --Dave >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> David Walker >>>>> Web Development Librarian >>>>> Library, Cal State San Marcos >>>>> 760-750-4379 >>>>> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker >>>>> ========================= >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Casey Bisson >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:45 AM >>>>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>>> Cc: Sara Brownmiller >>>>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs >>>>> >>>>> Sara, >>>>> >>>>> With more than 80 million Americans searching the web on any given >>>>> day, and major search engines handling five billion searches per >>>>> month, it's hard to imagine not wanting to make library resources >>>>> findable and available to those users. >>>>> >>>>> Google scares and confuses most of us, but I like to describe it >>>>> as a >>>>> giant OPAC with cataloging rules much like those we're already >>>>> familiar with (even if those rules are different from what we're >>>>> familiar with). Unfortunately, many of our systems are built in >>>>> ways >>>>> that contradict those rules and make our content difficult to >>>>> index >>>>> and find. >>>>> >>>>> But it's a challenge we can meet. And considering that a good >>>>> number >>>>> of those billions of monthly searches could benefit from the >>>>> knowledge available within libraries, it's a challenge that's >>>>> worth >>>>> our effort. >>>>> >>>>> That's the philosophy, here's some practice: >>>>> >>>>> WPopac[1] is my project to improve the findability of our >>>>> resources >>>>> by following the rules of the Google Economy[2]. In doing so it's >>>>> already highly ranked for at least one search[3], and the logs >>>>> show >>>>> that it's getting a large number of hits from search engines for >>>>> terms like "di vinci code" (yes, note the misspelling) and >>>>> "assisted >>>>> suicide" along with a few hundred more. How many hits? In the less >>>>> than three months that the prototype has been open to the public, >>>>> it's received more than 550,000 page loads (that count excludes my >>>>> own activity), about as many as official Plymouth State University >>>>> catalog received in 12 months last year. >>>>> >>>>> 1: http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11133/ >>>>> >>>>> 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_economy >>>>> >>>>> 3: http://www.google.com/search?q=joe+monninger >>>>> >>>>> Casey Bisson >>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> e-Learning Application Developer >>>>> Plymouth State University >>>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire >>>>> http://oz.plymouth.edu/~cbisson/ >>>>> ph: 603-535-2256 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Sara Brownmiller wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There is interest here in allowing google (google the search >>>>>> engine, not >>>>>> google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since >>>>>> many >>>>>> students start their research in google, they might identify >>>>>> information >>>>>> easily available to them. It would also help increase >>>>>> exposure to >>>>>> materials in our digital collections and our special collections >>>>>> and >>>>>> manuscripts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What >>>>>> impact >>>>>> did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy >>>>>> about >>>>>> search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced >>>>>> your >>>>>> decision? >>>>>> >>>>>> I would also be very interested in locating some records in >>>>>> google >>>>>> that >>>>>> came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the >>>>>> catalog >>>>>> or to see how the material is identified with a specific >>>>>> institution. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, Sara >>>>>> >>>>>> Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries >>>>>> Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon >>>>>> Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 >>>>>> 541/346-2368 (voice) >>>>>> snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>> >> From andrewc at vicnet.net.au Tue Apr 11 19:47:21 2006 From: andrewc at vicnet.net.au (Andrew Cunningham) Date: Tue Apr 11 19:47:29 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFE588@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <443C4009.3010808@vicnet.net.au> Some of the search engine technologies out there could have interesting applications when combined with OPAcs, but the idea of of exposing a library catalogues to Google is a frightening thought. My concern is the problems that would result with non-English records. The ILS we use tends to store text as decomposed unicode character sequences. Most common keyboard layouts generate precomposed character sequences. Google does not do any Unicode normalization Result: end users would not actually locate the items, even if the items are indexed in google. Google will not match a precomposed search string with decomposed text. They're different byte sequences. Currently we have enough problems with some langauge searches and google. Not even raising the issue of non-unicode character encodings that could create havoc. -- Andrew Cunningham Research and Development Coordinator Vicnet, Public Libraries and Communications State Library of Victoria 328 Swanston Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia andrewc+AEA-vicnet.net.au Ph. 3-8664-7430 Fax: 3-9639-2175 http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://www.libraries.vic.gov.au/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/ From jcrockett at ureach.com Wed Apr 12 02:01:13 2006 From: jcrockett at ureach.com (Joleen Crockett) Date: Wed Apr 12 02:01:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <200604120601.CAA20656@www21.ureach.com> Not Google, but apparently Yahoo. Entering the catalog address as a search (minus http://) brings up specific records from III catalogs--especially those with a Kids catalog. Titles don't seem to limited to Juvenile. Records often appear in search results on the second or third page. Joleen Joleen Crockett Adult Services Librarian Tempe Public Library Tempe,AZ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sara Brownmiller Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:56 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs There is interest here in allowing google (google the search engine, not google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many students start their research in google, they might identify information easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to materials in our digital collections and our special collections and manuscripts. Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your decision? I would also be very interested in locating some records in google that came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the catalog or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. thanks, Sara Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 541/346-2368 (voice) snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From anders.ericson at norskbibliotekforening.no Wed Apr 12 07:44:13 2006 From: anders.ericson at norskbibliotekforening.no (Anders Ericson) Date: Wed Apr 12 07:44:35 2006 Subject: SV: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <11443001107999@webmail-01.LOFOTNETT.COM> I haven't (yet) read all the replies in this thread, so this may have been mentioned already, but the Danish library authorities decided in fact this autumn that they'll let Google "penetrate" their web "union catalogue" bibliotek.dk (which covers all Danish libraries) and do exactly what Sara Brownmiller describes. Someone was concerned about "non-English records" and their "troublesome" letters. Aren't there any Danish colleagues on the list with the details on the Danish Google progress? Because in Danish (and Norwegian - my tongue) we have 3 "odd" letters; ? (an and an e squeezed together), ? (an o with a slash right through it) and ? (an a with a small circle on top). Which are all in common, daily use (more than before, actually, since aa (double a) has been replaced by ? (the a with the circle), like in Kirkegaard, who, if he was born today, might have called himself Kirkeg?rd. By the way: Danish academic libraries also plan to separate the Danish "part" of Google Scholar and make it their multi-resource portal; both for e-documents (open as well as local subscriptions) and library books. And thus make both Danish research and library resources more available. Mvh A n d e r s E r i c s o n anders [dot] ericson [at] norskbibliotekforening [dot] no +47 97775170 > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib- > bounces@webjunction.org] P? vegne av Sara Brownmiller > Sendt: 10. april 2006 23:56 > Til: web4lib@webjunction.org > Emne: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > > There is interest here in allowing google (google the search engine, not > google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many > students start their research in google, they might identify information > easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to > materials in our digital collections and our special collections and > manuscripts. > > Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact > did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about > search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your > decision? > > I would also be very interested in locating some records in google that > came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the catalog > or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. > > thanks, Sara > > Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries > Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon > Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 > 541/346-2368 (voice) > snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From bernies at uillinois.edu Wed Apr 12 12:53:56 2006 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed Apr 12 12:55:10 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Microsoft Academic Search vs. Google Scholar Message-ID: Someone may have already mentioned this, but I don't recall seeing it. Microsoft is unveiling their "Academic Search" product, which looks to be a competitor to Google Scholar. >From today's online Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription required): Carlson, Scott. Challenging Google, Microsoft Unveils a Search Tool for Online Scholarly Articles. Today's News. Chronicle of Higher Education. April 12, 2005. (Subscription required). http://chronicle.com/daily/2006/04/2006041201t.htm Also: Lombardi, Candace. Microsoft reveals answer to Google Scholar. CNET News. April 12, 2006. http://tinyurl.com/ghrjd And: Sherman, Chris. Microsoft Launches Windows Live Academic Search. Search Engine Watch. April 12, 2006. http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3598376 Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Wed Apr 12 13:13:48 2006 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed Apr 12 13:15:11 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Microsoft Academic Search vs. Google Scholar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443D354C.7090700@kcoyle.net> I noticed in the CNET article that " The service currently covers only physics, electrical engineering and computer science, Microsoft said in a statement," -- When we had various databases mounted on the MELVYL system at U of California, the LEAST used system was INSPEC, the primary engineering database. It was also one of the largest. It appeared to us that the academic work done in engineering does not generate the same amount of literature searching as that in other fields. So starting with these topics, and perhaps giving users the impression that this is primarily a science/technology service, may not be a winning strategy. What was searched the most? Medline. After just a short number of years, Medline was getting as many searches as the online catalog (1/3 of the total searches each, with the other 1/3 spread out over 7 topical databases). kc Sloan, Bernie wrote: > Someone may have already mentioned this, but I don't recall seeing it. > > Microsoft is unveiling their "Academic Search" product, which looks to > be a competitor to Google Scholar. > > >From today's online Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription > required): > > Carlson, Scott. Challenging Google, Microsoft Unveils a Search Tool for > Online Scholarly Articles. Today's News. Chronicle of Higher Education. > April 12, 2005. (Subscription required). > http://chronicle.com/daily/2006/04/2006041201t.htm > > Also: > > Lombardi, Candace. Microsoft reveals answer to Google Scholar. CNET > News. April 12, 2006. > http://tinyurl.com/ghrjd > > And: > > Sherman, Chris. Microsoft Launches Windows Live Academic Search. Search > Engine Watch. April 12, 2006. > http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3598376 > > Bernie Sloan > Senior Information Systems Consultant > Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois > 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 > Champaign, IL 61820-5752 > > Phone: (217) 333-4895 > Fax: (217) 265-0454 > E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca Wed Apr 12 13:34:09 2006 From: Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca (Binkley, Peter) Date: Wed Apr 12 13:33:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <908893006339C0409519E4065DF3B24901571191@mailserver.ualibrary.ualberta.ca> I'd never noticed before, but Google lists 377,000 pages from our opac: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=pgN&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.m ozilla:en-US:official&q=site:ualweb.library.ualberta.ca The ones I sampled were all searches by call number or issn, suggesting that Google followed external links from our new books or ejournals pages, but not internal links from the opac records themselves. Their spidering algorithm must be smart enough to avoid getting lost in the thickets of a highly-interlinked site with relatively few in-links. The spider probably did attempt to follow external links in the opac, since it has indexed 358,000 links to our EZProxy server (though a lot of these, maybe all, could have come from elsewhere on our site). We'll be replacing our ejournals' 856's with OpenURLs soon; it will be interesting to see if Google starts trying to spider our resolver. Currently our resolver has no hits in Google, but I'd have to check whether there's a robots.txt that is keeping Google out. Interestingly, the "Similar pages" link never comes up with anything. I would have thought the metadata would provide a distinctive enough fingerprint to pull up catalogue records for the same book at other libraries; but perhaps all the institution-specific language on the page muddies the waters too much. Peter Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Joleen Crockett Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:01 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Not Google, but apparently Yahoo. Entering the catalog address as a search (minus http://) brings up specific records from III catalogs--especially those with a Kids catalog. Titles don't seem to limited to Juvenile. Records often appear in search results on the second or third page. Joleen Joleen Crockett Adult Services Librarian Tempe Public Library Tempe,AZ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sara Brownmiller Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:56 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs There is interest here in allowing google (google the search engine, not google scholar) to spider, or crawl, our library catalog. Since many students start their research in google, they might identify information easily available to them. It would also help increase exposure to materials in our digital collections and our special collections and manuscripts. Has anyone allowed a search engine to crawl their catalog? What impact did it have on the performance? Does your library have a policy about search engines crawling your catalog? What factors influenced your decision? I would also be very interested in locating some records in google that came from a library catalog to see how the user is linked to the catalog or to see how the material is identified with a specific institution. thanks, Sara Sara Brownmiller University of Oregon Libraries Director, Library Systems 1299 University of Oregon Women's Studies Librarian Eugene, OR 97403-1299 541/346-2368 (voice) snb@uoregon.edu 541/346-3485 (fax) _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Wed Apr 12 14:30:46 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed Apr 12 14:30:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Microsoft Academic Search vs. Google Scholar In-Reply-To: <443D354C.7090700@kcoyle.net> References: <443D354C.7090700@kcoyle.net> Message-ID: <23b83f160604121130l368b069cvba75505532903d18@mail.gmail.com> Of course, your mileage may vary on that. Our most heavily used database is Compendex (which includes searching in INSPEC). I think it might depend heavily on what the actual focus of your institution is. -Ross. On 4/12/06, Karen Coyle wrote: > > I noticed in the CNET article that " The service currently covers only > physics, electrical engineering and computer science, Microsoft said in > a statement," -- When we had various databases mounted on the MELVYL > system at U of California, the LEAST used system was INSPEC, the primary > engineering database. It was also one of the largest. It appeared to us > that the academic work done in engineering does not generate the same > amount of literature searching as that in other fields. So starting with > these topics, and perhaps giving users the impression that this is > primarily a science/technology service, may not be a winning strategy. > > What was searched the most? Medline. After just a short number of years, > Medline was getting as many searches as the online catalog (1/3 of the > total searches each, with the other 1/3 spread out over 7 topical > databases). > > kc > > Sloan, Bernie wrote: > > Someone may have already mentioned this, but I don't recall seeing it. > > > > Microsoft is unveiling their "Academic Search" product, which looks to > > be a competitor to Google Scholar. > > > > >From today's online Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription > > required): > > > > Carlson, Scott. Challenging Google, Microsoft Unveils a Search Tool for > > Online Scholarly Articles. Today's News. Chronicle of Higher Education. > > April 12, 2005. (Subscription required). > > http://chronicle.com/daily/2006/04/2006041201t.htm > > > > Also: > > > > Lombardi, Candace. Microsoft reveals answer to Google Scholar. CNET > > News. April 12, 2006. > > http://tinyurl.com/ghrjd > > > > And: > > > > Sherman, Chris. Microsoft Launches Windows Live Academic Search. Search > > Engine Watch. April 12, 2006. > > http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3598376 > > > > Bernie Sloan > > Senior Information Systems Consultant > > Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois > > 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 > > Champaign, IL 61820-5752 > > > > Phone: (217) 333-4895 > > Fax: (217) 265-0454 > > E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > > > > -- > ----------------------------------- > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant > kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net > ph.: 510-540-7596 > fx.: 510-848-3913 > mo.: 510-435-8234 > ------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Apr 12 15:30:42 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed Apr 12 15:30:47 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC5C0@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Its going to suck if any of us do it! What needs to be done is to improve the placement of OpenWorldCat in Google searches. OpenWorldCat is the closest thing we have to a free world wide union catalog. If myst udents find records for books in just your library, it is of no benefit to any of us. I remember when all of the book records showed up in gopher searches as some one mentioned earlier. That was pretty bad. Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:12 PM > To: Casey Bisson > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org; Sara Brownmiller > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > Right, but I think Roy's point is that that's gonna suck if > we all do it. > > -Ross. From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Apr 12 16:03:37 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed Apr 12 16:04:08 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC5C0@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC5C0@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <443D5D19.9090202@ohiolink.edu> On 4/12/2006 3:30 PM, Drew, Bill wrote: > Its going to suck if any of us do it! What needs to be done is to > improve the placement of OpenWorldCat in Google searches. Could we standardize on a format in which to expose catalog records to web search engines? Many of us can create pages capable of detecting our own users, by IP or other values. We could expose a page that: displays to unrecognized users rich metadata, a link to the record in Open Worldcat ("Find at libraries near you") and a login link for local users who need to authenticate somewhere; and redirects recognized users directly to the catalog record. Having multiple library records for a given book in Google would ultimately have to make them more visible in Google search results. Having all of them route users to Worldcat gets them where we'd like them to be (except our own users) with a minimum of clicking. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From lars at aronsson.se Wed Apr 12 17:49:00 2006 From: lars at aronsson.se (Lars Aronsson) Date: Wed Apr 12 17:49:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC5C0@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC5C0@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: Drew, Bill wrote: > Its going to suck if any of us do it! What needs to be done is to > improve the placement of OpenWorldCat in Google searches. OpenWorldCat > is the closest thing we have to a free world wide union catalog. If > myst udents find records for books in just your library, it is of no > benefit to any of us. I remember when all of the book records showed up > in gopher searches as some one mentioned earlier. That was pretty bad. It will be pretty bad if only one library does this, and that is what happened in the Gopher days. If I search for Shakespeare's Hamlet and all I find is a copy at some public library in Kansas, it's going to be pretty weird. Today if I search Google for the exact phrase "here are some pictures of my kitten" I get 18 hits and "one hour before the library closes" gives 215 hits. This is a much richer (thicker, fatter) web than ten years ago, and search engines need to find the most relevant among all potential hits. Geographic distance might be a useful filtering criterion, if the search engine can compute the geographic distance between me and the object described in the web pages. Then if every public library had their catalog indexed, the search engine could present the hits that are closest to me, and I wouldn't have to bother about the other ones. If I don't see Kansas, it's not so bad. I'm not really suggesting that we all do this with today's Google, but the principle of finding library books in the same user interface as the rest of the world-wide web shouldn't be alien. But then it would also have to be something more useful than today's OpenWorldCat. OpenWorldCat, RedLightGreen or Wikipedia, if they were closer to an IMDb.com for books, might serve as a stepping stone in a web search process, where I can learn that there are many translations and editions of Shakespeare's Hamlet, before I refine my search. The other day I added a paragraph to the Swedish Wikipedia's article on Jack London, enumerating the various Swedish translations of "The Call of the Wild". This information could be found in the Swedish union catalog, but it was hard to dig out. The information is much more accessible now, in the Wikipedia article. No less than 12 translations into Swedish by different translators have appeared between 1907 and 1999 of this novel alone, using two different titles, http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_London Suppose we had this kind of information, easily navigable, for all authors, titles, translations, translators, editions, illustrators, with links to reviews and criticisms. How were the 12 Swedish translations of the Call of the Wild received by Swedish newspapers of the time? How many copies were sold of each edition? The solution for the future cannot be that every library catalogs (= keeps inventory of) the books in their collection, but a unified global project where we accumulate the sum of human knowledge about books. Maybe it's OpenWorldCat, maybe not. I can make contributions to Wikipedia, but WorldCat is Closed to me. -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Apr 12 18:10:57 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed Apr 12 18:11:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f801c65e7d$fa793c10$6401a8c0@venus> > Swedish newspapers of the time? How many copies were sold of each > edition? The solution for the future cannot be that every library > catalogs (= keeps inventory of) the books in their collection, but > a unified global project where we accumulate the sum of human > knowledge about books. Maybe it's OpenWorldCat, maybe not. I can > make contributions to Wikipedia, but WorldCat is Closed to me. It seems almost insane, and certainly archaic, that in 2006 every library has copies of a record for a book. I agree with Lars' statement--"Maybe it's OpenWorldCat, maybe not"--but also with his statement that "The solution for the future cannot be that every library catalogs (= keeps inventory of) the books in their collection," insofar as he is referring to a local copy of a centralized record. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From dfiander at uwo.ca Wed Apr 12 18:24:19 2006 From: dfiander at uwo.ca (David J. Fiander) Date: Wed Apr 12 18:24:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <00f801c65e7d$fa793c10$6401a8c0@venus> References: <00f801c65e7d$fa793c10$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: <443D7E13.5040901@uwo.ca> K.G. Schneider wrote: > It seems almost insane, and certainly archaic, that in 2006 every library > has copies of a record for a book. I agree with Lars' statement--"Maybe it's > OpenWorldCat, maybe not"--but also with his statement that "The solution for > the future cannot be that every library catalogs (= keeps inventory of) the > books in their collection," insofar as he is referring to a local copy of a > centralized record. I've been thinking about this a bit recently. The ILS serves two purposes: inventory control for the staff, and search engine for the public. It's not hard to argue that in the former role, it's pretty bad. NCSU's started to move in the right direction: take the bibliographic data out of the catalogue and dump it into a specialized search engine. The search engine then links back to the "inventory control module" to check for local holdings. This is is sounding better and better. Our inventory control system contains management information about our collection, and an OAI-PMH harvester (or some other crawling protocol) gathers holdings information into a central database. If _everybody_ did this, it would make my life as a library patron much simpler, since I regularly use one academic and two public libraries, and only my academic library is in WorldCat, so I end up making the same search three times in some cases. Of course, search result presentation becomes paramount, but then, that's what we've been talking about. From dfiander at uwo.ca Wed Apr 12 19:01:38 2006 From: dfiander at uwo.ca (David J. Fiander) Date: Wed Apr 12 19:01:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <443D7E13.5040901@uwo.ca> References: <00f801c65e7d$fa793c10$6401a8c0@venus> <443D7E13.5040901@uwo.ca> Message-ID: <443D86D2.6010509@uwo.ca> David J. Fiander wrote: > I've been thinking about this a bit recently. The ILS serves two > purposes: inventory control for the staff, and search engine for the > public. It's not hard to argue that in the former role, it's pretty > bad. NCSU's started to move in the right direction: take the Of course, I mean't that it's in the LATTER role that it's pretty bad. - David From bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 19:42:54 2006 From: bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com (Kelly Green) Date: Wed Apr 12 19:43:10 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS FEEDERS/aggregators In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060412234254.38484.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Like many others I use Bloglines - primarily for the convenience and portability. To be honest I've not bothered exploring others at this time. However, I caught a review of online aggregators that might be of interest to anyone who wants to explore more about online aggregators. http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/03/30/the-state-of-online-feed-readers/ Techcrunch does a good job providing timely articles regarding various "web 2.0" applications and capabilities. Kelly Green BTW Jennifer, I have done the solo librarian gig before so I completely understand your struggle :) At 01:20 AM 3/31/2006, jennifer.kirton@dpi.nsw.gov.au wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >As an overworked, solo, special librarian I'm about two years behind with >all the latest technology etc, but I would like to start using RSS feeds >to stay up to date. (Once I knew what I was doing, I would look to >introduce it to my library clients as well) > >I would appreciate any suggestions - based on your own experiences - for>a web-based aggregator and for a desktop (Windows) aggregator (I.T. says>they wont allow me to download any, but I am working on them!). > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From nohojim at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 20:12:35 2006 From: nohojim at yahoo.com (Jim Cody) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:12:38 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <443C05A7.8010606@auburn.edu> Message-ID: <20060413001235.10255.qmail@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other people are not aware of this. If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a library" (in quotes) and a title or author, it will bring the Open WorldCat results close to the top. Then if you click on one of those results you go into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code and get a list of the closest libraries holding that item. It's easy to use, except for the part about the "find in a library" bound phrase, which only a librarian would know. I use this all the time at my public library job to refer people to other libraries when we don't have something. Here's OCLC's explanation page: http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/how/default.htm But it's easier just to try it yourself. Jim Cody, Burbank PL --- Chris Stearns wrote: > Yeah, that would suck if everyone did it because the > world's Googlers > are looking for the info itself. For the most part, > they want the text > of Hamlet, not a record for my library's Hamlet > holdings (much less > 20,000!). > > If there were a way to specify via Google that > you're searching for > Hamlet holdings at any library within 30 miles of > you, then let Google, > Google Maps, etc. find it all for you then spit out > directions and the > reference librarian's name, that might be kinda > cool, but it would have > to be one of those "tucked-away" Google features > that you have to > specifically call and which isn't enabled by > default, else the 20,000 > Hamlets (and having studied Hamlet for an entire > semester in grad > school, 1 hamlet is definitely enough :-) > > > -- > Chris Stearns > Software/Programming > Auburn University Libraries > http://www.lib.auburn.edu > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Apr 12 20:16:11 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:16:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC60D@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Couldn't this be coded in a javascript so the phrase is used but not displayed so one could create a Google search already bound to libraries? Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Cody > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:13 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other > people are not aware of this. > > If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a > library" (in quotes) and a title or author, it will > bring the Open WorldCat results close to the top. > Then if you click on one of those results you go > into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code > and get a list of the closest libraries holding that > item. From cpikas.14607360 at bloglines.com Wed Apr 12 20:16:27 2006 From: cpikas.14607360 at bloglines.com (cpikas.14607360@bloglines.com) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:16:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Microsoft Academic Search vs. Google Scholar Message-ID: <1144887387.647042633.15164.sendItem@bloglines.com> I have to go with Ross on this one, where I work (at the world-famous _Applied Physics Lab_)-- Inspec (which is IEE, more science-y than engineering, and completely separate from Compendex although frequently hosted on the same platform) and Compendex run neck and neck. I'm tickled pink they chose these fields so that they can be compared against Scirus, GoogleScholar, and CiteSeer. Everybody builds tools that work on Medline, so I think this is nice, and of course, it supports their staff, too. All this is IMHO (and not my employers) Christina Pikas --- Ross Singer" Compendex (which includes searching in INSPEC). > > I think it might depend heavily on what the actual focus of your institution > is. > > -Ross. > > On 4/12/06, Karen Coyle wrote: > > > > I noticed in the CNET article that " The service currently covers only > > physics, electrical engineering and computer science, Microsoft said in > > a statement," -- When we had various databases mounted on the MELVYL > > system at U of California, the LEAST used system was INSPEC, the primary > > engineering database. It was also one of the largest. It appeared to us > > that the academic work done in engineering does not generate the same > > amount of literature searching as that in other fields. So starting with > > these topics, and perhaps giving users the impression that this is > > primarily a science/technology service, may not be a winning strategy. > > > > What was searched the most? Medline. After just a short number of years, > > Medline was getting as many searches as the online catalog (1/3 of the > > total searches each, with the other 1/3 spread out over 7 topical > > databases). > > > > kc From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Wed Apr 12 20:32:47 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:32:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC60D@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC60D@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <23b83f160604121732t1980921bua0efb0ceec0ed4e1@mail.gmail.com> This would sort of seem to defeat the purpose of Google, I think. And it would probably be just as easy to get the user to your website as to get them to install a bookmarklet or something and remember to use it on Google. -Ross. On 4/12/06, Drew, Bill wrote: > Couldn't this be coded in a javascript so the phrase is used but not > displayed so one could create a Google search already bound to > libraries? > > Wilfred (Bill) Drew > E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu > AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Cody > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:13 PM > > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > > > I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other > > people are not aware of this. > > > > If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a > > library" (in quotes) and a title or author, it will > > bring the Open WorldCat results close to the top. > > Then if you click on one of those results you go > > into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code > > and get a list of the closest libraries holding that > > item. > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Apr 12 20:42:18 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:42:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC60E@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> I put up an experimental page where I search the open world cat domain. It is at: http://library.morrisville.edu/googlelibrarysearch.htm Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) From andrewc at vicnet.net.au Wed Apr 12 21:30:42 2006 From: andrewc at vicnet.net.au (Andrew Cunningham) Date: Wed Apr 12 21:30:48 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <20060413001235.10255.qmail@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060413001235.10255.qmail@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <443DA9C2.30907@vicnet.net.au> Alternatively. add site:www.worldcatlibraries.org to the search term instead. Andrew Jim Cody wrote: > I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other > people are not aware of this. > > If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a > library" (in quotes) and a title or author, it will > bring the Open WorldCat results close to the top. > Then if you click on one of those results you go > into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code > and get a list of the closest libraries holding that > item. > > It's easy to use, except for the part about the "find > in a library" bound phrase, which only a librarian > would know. I use this all the time at my public > library job to refer people to other libraries when we > don't have something. > > Here's OCLC's explanation page: > http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/how/default.htm > > But it's easier just to try it yourself. > > Jim Cody, Burbank PL > > --- Chris Stearns wrote: > > >>Yeah, that would suck if everyone did it because the >>world's Googlers >>are looking for the info itself. For the most part, >>they want the text >>of Hamlet, not a record for my library's Hamlet >>holdings (much less >>20,000!). >> >>If there were a way to specify via Google that >>you're searching for >>Hamlet holdings at any library within 30 miles of >>you, then let Google, >>Google Maps, etc. find it all for you then spit out >>directions and the >>reference librarian's name, that might be kinda >>cool, but it would have >>to be one of those "tucked-away" Google features >>that you have to >>specifically call and which isn't enabled by >>default, else the 20,000 >>Hamlets (and having studied Hamlet for an entire >>semester in grad >>school, 1 hamlet is definitely enough :-) >> >> >>-- >>Chris Stearns >>Software/Programming >>Auburn University Libraries >>http://www.lib.auburn.edu >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Andrew Cunningham Research and Development Coordinator Vicnet, Public Libraries and Communications State Library of Victoria 328 Swanston Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia andrewc+AEA-vicnet.net.au Ph. 3-8664-7430 Fax: 3-9639-2175 http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://www.libraries.vic.gov.au/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/ From drweb at san.rr.com Wed Apr 12 21:44:38 2006 From: drweb at san.rr.com (Michael McCulley) Date: Wed Apr 12 21:44:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC60E@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <005401c65e9b$d47cd350$3a964b42@PMM> Great thread.. I like what Bill Drew did off of it.. and the Danish subject-based experiments seem promising. The Google Homework notion from Rich is Google's version of a "frontdoor" pathway that works for them -- more users, more traffic, more ads delivered. If such would indirectly aid libraries, students, or library patrons, that's fine with Google. But, they didn't built it to help libraries ;). New doorways and mash-ups are coming onstream daily; part of the hard part of our work is keeping up with them, discovery (wheat from chaff) It's not an either/or mix coming.. Google will do Google things, and OpenWorldCat will do their things.. Local libraries -- and that includes groups, consortia, geographic groups, etc. -- will do their things with front-doors, portals, search mash-ups.. it's a fine thing to do, if you use the not either/or model to understand what you are doing. You are providing "your patrons" with a better doorway, entrypoint, platform. That's valuable, and always will be, IMHO. We were working with geo-tagging and geo-coding content at AOL/Netscape when I was there, and it's moved a bit further since then; but, there's still a lot of work to be done in that area. If more content is geo-coded, some of the meta-tools can harvested based upon geo-codes, and some of the geography-based "hits" problems can be dealt with. That presupposes everyone will use or encode with standardized geo-codes. We can have more exploration of library catalog content, from overlaps like NCSU's fine implementation, to crawled and re-purposed content. And, we can work together with search engines and their companies and technologies to ensure libraries and their content, expertise, subject-based resources are "universally" available. To me, it's a win-win 21st Century. I still wish we had a better working, regular, advisory and consultation relationship between our Library "world" and Google (and add all the major search engines). It's a missing piece to me. There is no direct dialog between libraries' associations/groups and the major "finding/linking" indexer of the Internet. We have these informal, one-sided debates amongst ourselves, and probably that and papers and presentations trickle back like "grey literature" to the Internet Indexers. But, we could do better with a better relationship and dialog, IMHO. Best, DrWeb -- P. Michael McCulley aka DrWeb mailto:drweb@san.rr.com San Diego, CA http://drweb.typepad.com/ Quote of the Moment: There's more than one way to skin a cat. Get a sander! Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:29:35 PM >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill >Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:42 PM >To: Ross Singer >Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org; Jim Cody >Subject: RE: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > >I put up an experimental page where I search the open world cat domain. >It is at: > >http://library.morrisville.edu/googlelibrarysearch.htm > >Wilfred (Bill) Drew >E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu >AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 From jonathan at dnil.net Tue Apr 11 01:13:13 2006 From: jonathan at dnil.net (Jonathan Rochkind) Date: Thu Apr 13 01:10:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <000401c65cee$0beb7530$6401a8c0@venus> References: <000401c65cee$0beb7530$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: Of course, Open WorldCat HAS done exactly what Sara is suggesting. But I guess you guys are saying nobody but them should do it? I guess there is a risk of just creating a mess; but, hey, the user can always restrict their google search to just your domain (if they know how, a big if). But I admit , I too am somewhat dubious of exactly what this would accomplish. But. Here's a report from Library Journal of an experiment at the University of Buffalo from 2003 (does that pre-date OpenWorldCat? I forget), of someone trying to do what we're talking about (although not necessarily in quite the way Sara is imagining). You could try emailing Mark Ludwig at the email address given in the article, to find out what happened with that experiment. Breaking Through the Invisible Web Mark Ludwig (netConnect) - January 15, 2003 http://www.libraryjournal.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA266430&publication=libraryjournal http://tinyurl.com/llapf --Jonathan At 3:28 PM -0700 4/10/06, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > Unfortunately this reminds me of the early, horrific days of Gopher, >> where book records from individual libraries started showing up in >> Veronica searches. The problem is the incredible noise that comes >> from locating 35,000 different records for Hamlet from 20,000 >> libraries worldwide, and not a clue what to do with the information. >> I would argue strenously against doing this, and instead allow the >> very rational method of OCLC's Open WorldCat project to guide users >> to your library. >> Roy > >I'm with Roy on the problem, but what I'd like to know regarding the >solution is whether people are finding libraries through Open WorldCat. Is >it happening? It may be rational, but are people guided to libraries through >it? > >Karen G. Schneider >kgs@bluehighways.com > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From h.roes at iu-bremen.de Thu Apr 13 06:06:51 2006 From: h.roes at iu-bremen.de (Hans Roes) Date: Thu Apr 13 06:06:57 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] job opening, Academic Technology Engineer, Bremen, Germany Message-ID: <2426.10.200.4.141.1144922811.squirrel@mail2web.iu-bremen.de> The Information Resource Center at International University Bremen has a job opening for an academic technology engineer with library related tasks. Detailed information is on the IUB website: http://www.iu-bremen.de/about/jobs/09256/ Best regards, Hans Roes -- **** Director Information Resources and Multimedia **** International University Bremen **** P: +49 421 200 4610 **** F: +49 421 200 49 4610 **** M: h.roes@iu-bremen.de From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Apr 13 09:12:33 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Thu Apr 13 09:12:39 2006 Subject: re [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC665@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Here is the code for my latest test of this:
Google
Search WWW Search in Libraries

Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Apr 13 10:32:44 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Thu Apr 13 10:32:55 2006 Subject: re [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC665@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC665@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <443E610C.1080004@ohiolink.edu> Right, but if you can draw your users to a page with this form, why not just bounce them into your catalog? Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu On 4/13/2006 9:12 AM, Drew, Bill wrote: > > Here is the code for my latest test of this: > > >
> src="http://www.google.com/logos/Logo_40wht.gif" style="border:0" > alt="Google"/> >
> > > > > > > Search WWW type="radio" name="sitesearch" value="www.worldcatlibraries.org" > checked="checked"/>Search in Libraries

>
> From campbell at virginia.edu Thu Apr 13 10:55:54 2006 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Thu Apr 13 10:56:47 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <23b83f160604121732t1980921bua0efb0ceec0ed4e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c65f0a$5d4914a0$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Ross makes an important point here, that if you're trying to get users to notice your library materials when they're looking for something on Google, getting them to limit their search in advance defeats the point. I'm a little cynical though about how often they will find our books in a casual search. When Open WorldCat first came up, I tried looking for some current titles. Using the typical Google search of one or two keywords, it was hard to find anything about a book, because most topics had a lot of linked Web pages and page rank pulled them up first. Searching on exact title typically got sites that mentioned the book and then 4-5 pages of bookstore listings before a library link appeared. That said, most of the discussion of Google and opacs in recent years has focused on discovery. You have a topic, you put in 1-2 words, and Google, thanks to full-text searching, page rank, and plenty of Web content so that your particular terms are likely to get found, miraculously gets you pretty good results. Opacs lack full-text, any sort of linking that can help determine relevance (though circulation might be some help), and they use a standardized vocabulary that may not how be you think of the question. So they're crippled to begin with and a lot of the opac "solutions" we're seeing these days are like putting lipstick on a pig. But what is often forgotten in trash the opac sessions is they they do a very good job of finding known items in smaller collections and that, as FRBR is refined and becomes more common, they can do a fair job of leading you to the right item even in a very large collection. Libraries have been dinged (and in some ways rightly so) for their adherence to the MARC record, but Google also needs to be dinged for their adherence to page rank and in Google Book Search for their ignoring several centuries of evidence that you need a little bit at least of bibliographic data to identify books and also ignoring some good recent data that clustering versions of the same text can be helpful in dealing with all those versions of Great Expectations (though it would be even more helpful with more subjective groupings - lousy type and may cause eyestrain, colored pictures, happy ending, sad ending, etc.). To their credit, Google has been experimenting with some different approaches in Google Scholar, notably so far changes in advanced search and alllowing libraries to register an open URL resolver, with a link apppearing in the book citations. Perhaps we'll see some of the results of that experimenting in Google or Google BookSearch. But the other possibility, and the one that seems more likely given their trend to spin off specialized search tools, is that books (other than books for sale) will be ghettoized into GoogleScholar. If we all expose our opacs to Google, Google may just tell us "no, thanks, we have other places for that information." Indeed they could be pushed in that direction by their need to create and maintain good relations with publishers. Being in Google Scholar is not so bad for the academic libraries, but it's a problem for all of us who want to get the word out that we have the latest by John Grisham. Shame we couldn't get Google and Vivisimo together for a combination of page rank and result processing - pull out the Web sites, books, videos, etc. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:33 PM > To: Drew, Bill > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org; Jim Cody > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > This would sort of seem to defeat the purpose of Google, I think. > > And it would probably be just as easy to get the user to your > website as to get them to install a bookmarklet or something > and remember to use it on Google. > > -Ross. > > On 4/12/06, Drew, Bill wrote: > > Couldn't this be coded in a javascript so the phrase is > used but not > > displayed so one could create a Google search already bound to > > libraries? > > > > Wilfred (Bill) Drew > > E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu > > AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little > temporary > > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > > > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Cody > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:13 PM > > > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > > > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > > > > > I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other > people are not > > > aware of this. > > > > > > If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a > library" (in > > > quotes) and a title or author, it will bring the Open WorldCat > > > results close to the top. > > > Then if you click on one of those results you go > > > into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code and > get a list > > > of the closest libraries holding that item. > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Thu Apr 13 11:38:03 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:38:20 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs Message-ID: In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not likely to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Cody Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:13 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs I already replied off-list to Chris but maybe other people are not aware of this. If you search Google using the bound phrase "find in a library" (in quotes) and a title or author, it will bring the Open WorldCat results close to the top. Then if you click on one of those results you go into Open WorldCat, where you can enter your zip code and get a list of the closest libraries holding that item. It's easy to use, except for the part about the "find in a library" bound phrase, which only a librarian would know. I use this all the time at my public library job to refer people to other libraries when we don't have something. Here's OCLC's explanation page: http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/how/default.htm But it's easier just to try it yourself. Jim Cody, Burbank PL --- Chris Stearns wrote: > Yeah, that would suck if everyone did it because the world's Googlers > are looking for the info itself. For the most part, they want the text > of Hamlet, not a record for my library's Hamlet holdings (much less > 20,000!). > > If there were a way to specify via Google that you're searching for > Hamlet holdings at any library within 30 miles of you, then let > Google, Google Maps, etc. find it all for you then spit out directions > and the reference librarian's name, that might be kinda cool, but it > would have to be one of those "tucked-away" Google features that you > have to specifically call and which isn't enabled by default, else the > 20,000 Hamlets (and having studied Hamlet for an entire semester in > grad school, 1 hamlet is definitely enough :-) > > > -- > Chris Stearns > Software/Programming > Auburn University Libraries > http://www.lib.auburn.edu > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Apr 13 11:40:39 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:40:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <000601c65f0a$5d4914a0$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <001401c65f10$9e5d06d0$6401a8c0@venus> > But what is often forgotten in trash the opac sessions is they they do a > very good job of finding known items in smaller collections and that, as > FRBR is refined and becomes more common, they can do a fair job of leading > you to the right item even in a very large collection. My questions would be: * What is meant by "good job"--how do we measure that? What is the evidence? * FRBR does indeed have great potential for improving findability. But can it address findability problems on its own? I think in fact we have spent thirty years not even questioning the OPAC in most respects. It's good that librarians are looking at OPACs, finding them wanting, and explaining what they do poorly. We're finally doing our job. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Apr 13 11:49:28 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:49:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> > In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save > this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so > you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not likely > to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. You can install a toolbar, courtesy of OCLC, but if Google was betting on paper books and real libraries, they'd implement this feature directly in Google itself, not leaving us to provide an add-on. In the same vein, they'd offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. (And if libraries participating in this project had a clue, they would have insisted that this be a prerequisite for participation. How good we are at contributing to our own demise.) If GBS becomes the de facto book finding aid for the body politic (something I don't see as long as the focus is on academic books), we're all hosed. I always worry we're just seeing Phase One from them. It is interesting to see Google experiment with faceting and metadata, after years of promoting search uber alles. I wonder if Ask.com is making them feel any heat? Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From bill.drew at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 11:50:57 2006 From: bill.drew at gmail.com (Bill Drew) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:51:02 2006 Subject: re [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC665@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC665@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <1b4730780604130850x7ce6a33cpe90a4fa32ed96bc0@mail.gmail.com> Maybe my form does a better job at searching and also allows the user to find things we don't have? Just a thought. I am just testing this, not using it in production. consider it playing around with an idea. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Apr 13 11:54:46 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:55:30 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Yahoo! Search form restricted to OpenWorldCat Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC70D@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Below is a search form for using Yahoo! Search for searching the www.worldcatlibraries.org domain. It works very well. -- Bill Drew [ Yahoo! ] Tags: * Yahoo * libraries * search From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Apr 13 12:02:10 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Thu Apr 13 12:15:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Code for Yahoo! Search form restricted to OpenWorldCat Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC713@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> My message came through with the code stripped out of it. Here is the code for the form and a URL for a page I put up with both the Google form and the Yahoo form on them:


[ Yahoo! ]



http://library.morrisville.edu/librarysearch.htm Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) From jgoodell at pulaskitech.edu Thu Apr 13 12:20:31 2006 From: jgoodell at pulaskitech.edu (Jon Goodell) Date: Thu Apr 13 12:23:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website References: <001401c65f10$9e5d06d0$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: Please excuse cross postings. My library, a community college library that serves about 8,500 students and several hundred faculty, is exploring updating its website (www.pulaskitech.edu/library). I have looked at several dozen community college websites to draw ideas from. Do you have any favorites? Which are considered the best? I am also interested in your opinions as to what makes a good community college library website. Also, if your organization has recently gone through a website overhaul, I would be grateful if you could share your experiences. Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu From Sellers_M at fortlewis.edu Thu Apr 13 12:31:31 2006 From: Sellers_M at fortlewis.edu (Sellers, Minna) Date: Thu Apr 13 12:32:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Code for Yahoo! Search form restricted to OpenWorldCat Message-ID: <8C6316DC87126643A8D1E9ECE9F9032503BCE17C@frodo.fortlewis.edu> Thanks, Bill, for passing this on. I recently put up a test page as well at http://library.fortlewis.edu/online/openworldcat_de.asp , but I just copied HTML source code from the OCLC Open WorldCat Search page: http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/tryit/default.htm. Minna Sellers Information Services Librarian Reed Library, Fort Lewis College Durango CO Sellers_m@fortlewis.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:02 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Code for Yahoo! Search form restricted to OpenWorldCat My message came through with the code stripped out of it. Here is the code for the form and a URL for a page I put up with both the Google form and the Yahoo form on them:


[ Yahoo! ]



http://library.morrisville.edu/librarysearch.htm Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From pfa at umich.edu Thu Apr 13 13:08:20 2006 From: pfa at umich.edu (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Thu Apr 13 13:09:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: References: <001401c65f10$9e5d06d0$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: Hi, Jan, We are also in the process of planning a web redesign. Our current situation is that we designed our current web site's look and feel almost 7 years ago -- eons, in web-time! It was designed with a primary focus on text and to meet the then standards for web-accessibility. Our community includes a lot of people with minimal computer expertise and we have a significant overseas community. Our biggest constraint is that we cannot hire an assistant with web skills, but have to hire a clerical position, and then train them to assist with the web coding, and that this position has historically had a high level of turnover. Our second biggest constraint has been that for the past four years, everytime the idea of changing the web site was brought up, our graduate student population strongly resisted the idea. Our process for evaluating the site has been designed in part to discover what it is that our patrons most want us to keep or change, and also to get community buy-in and feedback on the process and proposals. Our process (ongoing) has included these steps. 1. Review weblogs and statistics to discover what pages on the site are most used. 2. Survey the patron population to solicit feedback. Questions included demographics; usage patterns; for the resources the stats showed were most used, how patrons located these or preferred to use them; ease of use; prioritizing resources available; and open-ended questions. The latter were the most valuable and gather the most surprises for us. Our open ended questions were: - The most important service the library provides for me is [blank]. - The most important research tool for me is [blank]. - If there was one thing about the web site you could change, what would that be? - If there was one thing you would not change about the current web site, what would that be? - What would you like to see on the web site that is not there now? - What else would you like to tell us? 3. Focus groups. Here we both gathered feedback about our current site (likes / dislikes), and also showed mock-ups of design directions we might take for our future site. 4. A card-sorting task, to discover how patrons mentally categorize our various resources, tools, and services. All of these steps yielded surprises and useful information. I know many processes other groups have used are more extensive, but we had very limited time and money for this. Our budget for this has been about $200 total, not including staff time. So we were trying to get the most bang for our buck. Even though it is possible to do much more, I think we gather a lot of very helpful information, and I am happy with how this process is turning out. I hope this is helpful! We are still in the middle of collating our data, so perhaps other groups who have already completed this type of project will have more useful insights. -- Patricia Anderson, UM Dentistry Library, pfa@umich.edu On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Jon Goodell wrote: > Please excuse cross postings. > > My library, a community college library that serves about 8,500 students and several hundred faculty, is exploring updating its website (www.pulaskitech.edu/library). I have looked at several dozen community college websites to draw ideas from. Do you have any favorites? Which are considered the best? I am also interested in your opinions as to what makes a good community college library website. > > Also, if your organization has recently gone through a website overhaul, I would be grateful if you could share your experiences. > > Thank you, > Jon > > Jon Goodell > Technology Services & Reference Librarian > Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library > North Little Rock, AR > 501-812-2718 > jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Thu Apr 13 13:27:20 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Thu Apr 13 13:27:24 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> References: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: <23b83f160604131027n1110c8eat7ae5831a3493577b@mail.gmail.com> Strange. Does anybody really think that Google/GBS would ever overtake Amazon as 'the place to look for books'? Because I find that a bit unlikely. -Ross. On 4/13/06, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > > In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save > > this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so > > you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not likely > > to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. > > You can install a toolbar, courtesy of OCLC, but if Google was betting on > paper books and real libraries, they'd implement this feature directly in > Google itself, not leaving us to provide an add-on. In the same vein, > they'd > offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. (And if > libraries > participating in this project had a clue, they would have insisted that > this > be a prerequisite for participation. How good we are at contributing to > our > own demise.) If GBS becomes the de facto book finding aid for the body > politic (something I don't see as long as the focus is on academic books), > we're all hosed. I always worry we're just seeing Phase One from them. > > It is interesting to see Google experiment with faceting and metadata, > after > years of promoting search uber alles. I wonder if Ask.com is making them > feel any heat? > > Karen G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From afbailey at vt.edu Thu Apr 13 13:31:17 2006 From: afbailey at vt.edu (Annette Bailey) Date: Thu Apr 13 13:31:21 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> References: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: <3a7f075a0604131031k2776b14gedfb7533e5327e2a@mail.gmail.com> You could also contact us at LibX and have us build a LibX Firefox extension for you that gives your users the ability to search your catalog from a toolbar and right-click context menu. We also embed cues in pages, such as the Google search results page, that allow users to run the same search against your library's catalog with one click. "In the same vein, they'd offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. " LibX offers that with a cue (your logo). It's free, it's open source, and it does a whole lot more than what I mentioned above. Virginia Tech's edition is here with a brief list of features: http://www.lib.vt.edu/services/libX/libX.php More information is here: http://libx.org/ Annette -- Annette Bailey Digital Assets Librarian Newman Library Virginia Tech University Libraries Blacksburg, Virginia PH: (540) 231-9266 On 4/13/06, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save > > this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so > > you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not likely > > to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. > > You can install a toolbar, courtesy of OCLC, but if Google was betting on > paper books and real libraries, they'd implement this feature directly in > Google itself, not leaving us to provide an add-on. In the same vein, they'd > offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. (And if libraries > participating in this project had a clue, they would have insisted that this > be a prerequisite for participation. How good we are at contributing to our > own demise.) If GBS becomes the de facto book finding aid for the body > politic (something I don't see as long as the focus is on academic books), > we're all hosed. I always worry we're just seeing Phase One from them. > > It is interesting to see Google experiment with faceting and metadata, after > years of promoting search uber alles. I wonder if Ask.com is making them > feel any heat? > > Karen G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From carynlanderson at yahoo.com Thu Apr 13 13:40:27 2006 From: carynlanderson at yahoo.com (Caryn Anderson) Date: Thu Apr 13 13:40:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Registration Open! - NEASIS&T Awards Dinner with Peter Morville Message-ID: <20060413174027.21071.qmail@web34213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please excuse cross-postings REGISTRATION NOW OPEN! http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20060511.html NEASIS&T Awards Dinner with special guest Peter Morville "Ambient Findability" May 11 2006, 6-9pm MIT Faculty Club, 50 Memorial Drive (Building E52), Cambridge, MA Join us for a fabulous night of fine dining and fascinating discussion with Peter Morville, President and Founder of Semantic Studios, author of "Ambient Findability" and co-author of "Information Architecture and the World Wide Web." Peter will speak on Ambient Findability: "At the crossroads of ubiquitous computing and the Internet, the user experience is out of control, and findability is the real story. Access changes the game. We can select our sources and choose our news. We can find who and what we need, when and where we want. As society shifts from push to pull, findability shapes who we trust, how we learn, and where we go. In this cyberspace safari, Peter Morville explores the future present in search algorithms, embedded metadata, ontologies, folksonomies, mobile devices, findable objects, evolutionary psychology, and the long tail of the sociosemantic web." Presentation followed by discussion. Register now! Space is limited and prices increase after May 1. $40 for Non-members ($50 after May 1) $30 for ASIS&T members and significant others ($40 after May 1) $20 for students/retirees/between jobs ($30 after May 1) Price includes: Reception (1 cocktail included in price) Three-course gourmet dinner Awards ceremony Peter Morville presentation and discussion * Space is limited and there is no "talk only" registration available. REGISTER NOW: http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20060511.html Subscribe to the RSS feed from the NEASIST Events Blog for updates: http://www.neasist.org/events/ -- Caryn Anderson Program Coordinator PhD in Managerial Leadership in the Information Professions GSLIS, Simmons College 300 The Fenway, P-204E Boston, MA 02115 caryn.anderson@simmons.edu 617.521.2829 http://www.simmons.edu/gslis/phdmlip __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stearcs at auburn.edu Thu Apr 13 15:16:35 2006 From: stearcs at auburn.edu (Chris Stearns) Date: Thu Apr 13 15:11:41 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <23b83f160604131027n1110c8eat7ae5831a3493577b@mail.gmail.com> References: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> <23b83f160604131027n1110c8eat7ae5831a3493577b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <443EA393.3080501@auburn.edu> > Does anybody really think that Google/GBS would ever overtake Amazon as 'the place to look for books'? I don't, but then I can remember attending a presentation back in '97/'98 on various search engines, and there was this new one called "Google", and I remember saying "That'll never take off. Stupid name." Guess that's why I'm still slogging away in the basement of the technological revolution instead of standing on the apex ;-) Ross Singer wrote: > Strange. > > > Because I find that a bit unlikely. > > -Ross. > > On 4/13/06, K.G. Schneider wrote: >>> In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save >>> this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so >>> you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not likely >>> to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. >> You can install a toolbar, courtesy of OCLC, but if Google was betting on >> paper books and real libraries, they'd implement this feature directly in >> Google itself, not leaving us to provide an add-on. In the same vein, >> they'd >> offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. (And if >> libraries >> participating in this project had a clue, they would have insisted that >> this >> be a prerequisite for participation. How good we are at contributing to >> our >> own demise.) If GBS becomes the de facto book finding aid for the body >> politic (something I don't see as long as the focus is on academic books), >> we're all hosed. I always worry we're just seeing Phase One from them. >> >> It is interesting to see Google experiment with faceting and metadata, >> after >> years of promoting search uber alles. I wonder if Ask.com is making them >> feel any heat? >> >> Karen G. Schneider >> kgs@bluehighways.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- Chris Stearns Software/Programming Auburn University Libraries http://www.lib.auburn.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Apr 13 15:25:43 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Apr 13 15:25:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <443EA393.3080501@auburn.edu> Message-ID: <001c01c65f30$0ef4a1e0$6401a8c0@venus> > > Does anybody really think that Google/GBS would ever overtake Amazon > as 'the place to look for books'? > > I don't, but then I can remember attending a presentation back in > '97/'98 on various search engines, and there was this new one called > "Google", and I remember saying "That'll never take off. Stupid name." The first time I saw a web browser (the CERN line-mode browser) I remember rolling my eyes and thinking, "This will never take off." Though to my credit (one of my few moments of real prescience) the day I installed Trumpet Winsock and Mosaic and pulled up pictures of planets on my home computer, I knew I was seeing something hugely transformative. I wish I knew why I knew that--I'd be a tycoon. I didn't posit that Google/GBS would overtake Amazon. I posited that GBS might eclipse libraries. You can call that strange or unlikely; time will tell. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Apr 13 15:38:59 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Thu Apr 13 15:39:03 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Predicting technology changes Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC7CD@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Karen's recent post on Google and making predictions got me thinking of one I made in a book on electronic resources for agriculture that I wrote for Information Today back in 1994. Here is what I wrote: NETWORKED SERVICES (INTERNET) The biggest area of growth will been on information accessible through the Internet. Electronic bulletin boards will continue to be around for a long time and may migrate to such software as gopher or MUDs. MUDs allow a group of users to interact in real-time without having to use electronic mail. For the immediate future, listservs will continue to provide an important service linking many users together. While many such groups have counterparts in USENET newsgroups, agricultural discussion groups are not widely available through the newsgroups yet. This is very likely to change especially if BITNET ,where most listservs are maintained, users move over to Internet and cancel their BITNET memberships. I have seen this is being widely discussed among the State University of New York campuses. Gopher servers have been available on the Internet for less than three years and there are already over three thousand sites around the world. The number of sites mounting agricultural information is growing. When I started writing this book a year ago there were only one or two sites, there are now over ten including many USDA gophers. It now appears that the number of Almanac servers has stabilized. I have seen some discussion about moving Almanac based information to gopher. Another new tool on the Internet is the World Wide Web. This is a network of hypertext document servers around the world. It was originally designed by the scientists at CERN to allow access to high energy physics research data. It is based on client/server technology. World Wide Web (or WWW) clients allow access to these hypertext services as well as allowing access to gopher, telnet, ftp, and wais (wide area information server) databases. WWW clients are now available for all types of computer and microcomputer systems. Most will allow the use of multimedia products. Such a client could provide a seamless interface to the internet. The user would never need to "leave" the client except to read electronic mail and maybe to use other local services. How did I do? Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) From campbell at virginia.edu Thu Apr 13 16:13:33 2006 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Thu Apr 13 16:13:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <001c01c65f30$0ef4a1e0$6401a8c0@venus> Message-ID: <003201c65f36$bd2a8170$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Well, there are probably at least a few people who think GBS might become the place to look. Most of them work in Mountain View, CA. They probably also think selling digital versions of books or parts of books is going to take off. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:26 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > > > > Does anybody really think that Google/GBS would ever overtake > > Amazon as 'the place to look for books'? > > > > I don't, but then I can remember attending a presentation back in > > '97/'98 on various search engines, and there was this new > one called > > "Google", and I remember saying "That'll never take off. > Stupid name." > > The first time I saw a web browser (the CERN line-mode > browser) I remember rolling my eyes and thinking, "This will > never take off." > > Though to my credit (one of my few moments of real > prescience) the day I installed Trumpet Winsock and Mosaic > and pulled up pictures of planets on my home computer, I knew > I was seeing something hugely transformative. I wish I knew > why I knew that--I'd be a tycoon. > > I didn't posit that Google/GBS would overtake Amazon. I > posited that GBS might eclipse libraries. You can call that > strange or unlikely; time will tell. > > Karen G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 16:33:14 2006 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Thu Apr 13 16:33:28 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <443EA393.3080501@auburn.edu> References: <001601c65f11$d9399470$6401a8c0@venus> <23b83f160604131027n1110c8eat7ae5831a3493577b@mail.gmail.com> <443EA393.3080501@auburn.edu> Message-ID: Let's define our terms carefully here: -- To look for books to borrow? -- To look for books to read online? -- To look for information about particular books? -- To look for books to buy? My guess is Google will have a role to play in all of these. But I don't count Amazon out either. I remember SLA in Seattle in 1997 when a couple hundred librarians eagerly offered advice to Jeff Bezos on how to build his business. .. http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue6_5/wiggins/index.html War Eagle, /rich On 4/13/06, Chris Stearns wrote: > > > Does anybody really think that Google/GBS would ever overtake Amazon > as 'the place to look for books'? > > I don't, but then I can remember attending a presentation back in > '97/'98 on various search engines, and there was this new one called > "Google", and I remember saying "That'll never take off. Stupid name." > > Guess that's why I'm still slogging away in the basement of the > technological revolution instead of standing on the apex ;-) > > Ross Singer wrote: > > Strange. > > > > > > > Because I find that a bit unlikely. > > > > -Ross. > > > > On 4/13/06, K.G. Schneider wrote: > >>> In a bit of a pre-coffee haze, but wondering....is there a way to save > >>> this kind of search on Google, so it's available when you need it, so > >>> you don't have to remember the secret handshake phrase? I'm not > likely > >>> to use this often, so won't remember it, I'm sure. > >> You can install a toolbar, courtesy of OCLC, but if Google was betting > on > >> paper books and real libraries, they'd implement this feature directly > in > >> Google itself, not leaving us to provide an add-on. In the same vein, > >> they'd > >> offer library findability from inside Google Book Search. (And if > >> libraries > >> participating in this project had a clue, they would have insisted that > >> this > >> be a prerequisite for participation. How good we are at contributing to > >> our > >> own demise.) If GBS becomes the de facto book finding aid for the body > >> politic (something I don't see as long as the focus is on academic > books), > >> we're all hosed. I always worry we're just seeing Phase One from them. > >> > >> It is interesting to see Google experiment with faceting and metadata, > >> after > >> years of promoting search uber alles. I wonder if Ask.com is making > them > >> feel any heat? > >> > >> Karen G. Schneider > >> kgs@bluehighways.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Web4lib mailing list > >> Web4lib@webjunction.org > >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > -- > Chris Stearns > Software/Programming > Auburn University Libraries > http://www.lib.auburn.edu > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From afitc at uaa.alaska.edu Thu Apr 13 20:05:43 2006 From: afitc at uaa.alaska.edu (Ian Chan) Date: Thu Apr 13 20:05:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Message-ID: <467FCAC25A1FD04A9FEE5A56910BE7DA238000@ANCEXCHANGE.uaa.alaska.edu> Hi Jon, This page lists several libraries that have undergone web redesigns in the last couple years: http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. The documentation from University of Washington was especially helpful. MIT libraries has also done an excellent job tracing their web development process. Summary of our re-design process. http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ Nicely re-designed community college website: http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ One of my favorite university library web sites: http://www.lib.umn.edu/ - re-designed in the last year or two? --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jon Goodell Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org; nexgenlib-l@topica.com Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Please excuse cross postings. My library, a community college library that serves about 8,500 students and several hundred faculty, is exploring updating its website (www.pulaskitech.edu/library). I have looked at several dozen community college websites to draw ideas from. Do you have any favorites? Which are considered the best? I am also interested in your opinions as to what makes a good community college library website. Also, if your organization has recently gone through a website overhaul, I would be grateful if you could share your experiences. Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From drweb at san.rr.com Thu Apr 13 22:10:50 2006 From: drweb at san.rr.com (Michael McCulley) Date: Thu Apr 13 22:10:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <000601c65f0a$5d4914a0$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <008701c65f68$a75f8390$3a964b42@PMM> Good post, Jim.. You wrote, in part: "You have a topic, you put in 1-2 words, and Google, thanks to full-text searching, page rank, and plenty of Web content so that your particular terms are likely to get found, miraculously gets you pretty good results." I don't know if Gary Price would update this now, but.. on this page from 2003, http://www.virtualchase.com/howto/gg_tips.html he notes.. "Some documents are not completely indexed by Google. Indexing of the text in Web pages stops after 101kb (For PDF, it's 120kb.)" Aside: it's different for different engines, and I don't know which engine (right now) indexes "more" of a Web page or document than Google. At one time, AltaVista held that distinction, but now they are powered by Yahoo! and it's not the same indexing. Most people think 1MB is large for a Web "page" or "document," and it is.. in general. But for reports, government documents, books, etc., 1MB is not that large. So, Google does not, in some cases, index entire documents, and thus, in some cases, you are *not* searching the full text. Best, DrWeb -- P. Michael McCulley aka DrWeb mailto:drweb@san.rr.com San Diego, CA http://drweb.typepad.com/ Quote of the Moment: I don't see you, so don't pretend to be there. Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:57:44 PM >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Campbell >Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:56 AM >To: web4lib@webjunction.org >Subject: RE: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs > >Ross makes an important point here, that if you're trying to >get users to >notice your library materials when they're looking for >something on Google, >getting them to limit their search in advance defeats the point. I'm a >little cynical though about how often they will find our books >in a casual >search. When Open WorldCat first came up, I tried looking for >some current >titles. Using the typical Google search of one or two >keywords, it was hard >to find anything about a book, because most topics had a lot >of linked Web >pages and page rank pulled them up first. Searching on exact >title typically >got sites that mentioned the book and then 4-5 pages of >bookstore listings >before a library link appeared. > >That said, most of the discussion of Google and opacs in >recent years has >focused on discovery. You have a topic, you put in 1-2 words, >and Google, >thanks to full-text searching, page rank, and plenty of Web >content so that >your particular terms are likely to get found, miraculously >gets you pretty >good results. Opacs lack full-text, any sort of linking that can help >determine relevance (though circulation might be some help), >and they use a >standardized vocabulary that may not how be you think of the >question. So >they're crippled to begin with and a lot of the opac "solutions" we're >seeing these days are like putting lipstick on a pig. [remainder snipped] From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Apr 14 08:38:11 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Fri Apr 14 08:38:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Firefox update kills security bugs, adds Mac support | Keyword: "mozilla" | ZDNet News Alerts Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51011BC875@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Good news from ZDNET and FireFox. ==== NEWS ALERT FROM ZDNET ===== Firefox update kills security bugs, adds Mac support Latest version of popular open-source Web browser includes fixes and adds the expected support for Macs with Intel processors. Thursday April 13, 2006 05:12PM PDT ==== Copyright 2006 ===== CNET Networks (ZDNet's parent company) 235 Second Street San Francisco, CA 94105 USA From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Fri Apr 14 11:18:47 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Fri Apr 14 11:19:02 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Message-ID: Does anyone know of a similar page/collection of public library web sites? -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ian Chan Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:06 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Hi Jon, This page lists several libraries that have undergone web redesigns in the last couple years: http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. The documentation from University of Washington was especially helpful. MIT libraries has also done an excellent job tracing their web development process. Summary of our re-design process. http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ Nicely re-designed community college website: http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ One of my favorite university library web sites: http://www.lib.umn.edu/ - re-designed in the last year or two? --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jon Goodell Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org; nexgenlib-l@topica.com Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Please excuse cross postings. My library, a community college library that serves about 8,500 students and several hundred faculty, is exploring updating its website (www.pulaskitech.edu/library). I have looked at several dozen community college websites to draw ideas from. Do you have any favorites? Which are considered the best? I am also interested in your opinions as to what makes a good community college library website. Also, if your organization has recently gone through a website overhaul, I would be grateful if you could share your experiences. Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Fri Apr 14 12:24:52 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Fri Apr 14 12:28:53 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Message-ID: Looks like Sarah Houghton's been talking about this today on Librarian in Black... http://librarianinblack.typepad.com/librarianinblack/2006/04/library_web _des.html -M -----Original Message----- From: HAZEL Margaret E Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:19 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Does anyone know of a similar page/collection of public library web sites? -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ian Chan Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:06 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Hi Jon, This page lists several libraries that have undergone web redesigns in the last couple years: http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. The documentation from University of Washington was especially helpful. MIT libraries has also done an excellent job tracing their web development process. Summary of our re-design process. http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ Nicely re-designed community college website: http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ One of my favorite university library web sites: http://www.lib.umn.edu/ - re-designed in the last year or two? --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jon Goodell Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org; nexgenlib-l@topica.com Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Please excuse cross postings. My library, a community college library that serves about 8,500 students and several hundred faculty, is exploring updating its website (www.pulaskitech.edu/library). I have looked at several dozen community college websites to draw ideas from. Do you have any favorites? Which are considered the best? I am also interested in your opinions as to what makes a good community college library website. Also, if your organization has recently gone through a website overhaul, I would be grateful if you could share your experiences. Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From sbaldwin at nngov.com Fri Apr 14 12:57:05 2006 From: sbaldwin at nngov.com (Sue Baldwin) Date: Fri Apr 14 12:54:57 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Polls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007501c65fe4$75a30d00$254f050a@NNPLS.ORG> Hi, I have been thinking about adding a poll to our website for different occasions, mainly tied to some of our programming. For example, during National Poetry Month we could ask for your favorite poet. I read about another public library doing this (I forget which) and thought it sounded like a neat idea. Can anyone recommend a FREE polling site we can use that does not have huge ads?? Anyone know of other public libraries that do this?? Good idea?? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Sue Sue Baldwin Senior Librarian, Technology & Electronic Access Newport News Public Library System 700 Town Center Drive Suite 300 Newport News, VA 23606 757-926-1350 voice 757-926-1365 fax sbaldwin@nngov.com From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Apr 14 13:43:08 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Fri Apr 14 13:43:21 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] google & library catalogs In-Reply-To: <003201c65f36$bd2a8170$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <003101c65fea$e572a680$6401a8c0@venus> > Well, there are probably at least a few people who think GBS might become > the place to look. Most of them work in Mountain View, CA. They probably > also think selling digital versions of books or parts of books is going to > take off. > > - Jim Campbell > Campbell@Virginia.edu For a true out-of-body experience, watch Book TV's recording ALA Midwinter 2006 president's program, where both Andrei Codrescu and Michael Gorman apparently agree with those folks in Mountain View. It played in Feb and may come up again: http://www.booktv.org/General/index.asp?segID=6666&schedID=403 Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From scccp at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 20:26:00 2006 From: scccp at yahoo.com (Stiofan Perkins) Date: Fri Apr 14 20:26:03 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: <467FCAC25A1FD04A9FEE5A56910BE7DA238000@ANCEXCHANGE.uaa.alaska.edu> Message-ID: <20060415002600.69681.qmail@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ian: An interesting list. Only two of them pass the W3 HTML validator, four of them pass the automated section 508 tests at Cynthia Says, and none of them pass the automated WAI tests also at Cynthia Says. While those results do not mean the pages are unaccessible, they do indicate that more attention needs to be paid to accessibility in library web page design. Regards, Steven C. Perkins Coordinator of Reference Services MD Anderson Library University of Houston --- Ian Chan wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > This page lists several libraries that have > undergone web redesigns in > the last couple years: > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. > The > documentation from University of Washington was > especially helpful. MIT > libraries has also done an excellent job tracing > their web development > process. > > Summary of our re-design process. > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ > > Nicely re-designed community college website: > http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ > > One of my favorite university library web sites: > http://www.lib.umn.edu/ > - re-designed in the last year or two? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Ian Chan > Assistant Professor > Web Services Librarian > UAA/APU Consortium Library > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ > 907.786.1835 > > From jgoodell at pulaskitech.edu Sat Apr 15 09:16:38 2006 From: jgoodell at pulaskitech.edu (Jon Goodell) Date: Sat Apr 15 09:18:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website References: <20060415002600.69681.qmail@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Steven, Can you explain in more detail why these standards are important to libraries, especially in the community college context? How should I explain this to my library director and her superiors? Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Stiofan Perkins Sent: Fri 4/14/2006 7:26 PM To: Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Ian: An interesting list. Only two of them pass the W3 HTML validator, four of them pass the automated section 508 tests at Cynthia Says, and none of them pass the automated WAI tests also at Cynthia Says. While those results do not mean the pages are unaccessible, they do indicate that more attention needs to be paid to accessibility in library web page design. Regards, Steven C. Perkins Coordinator of Reference Services MD Anderson Library University of Houston --- Ian Chan wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > This page lists several libraries that have > undergone web redesigns in > the last couple years: > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. > The > documentation from University of Washington was > especially helpful. MIT > libraries has also done an excellent job tracing > their web development > process. > > Summary of our re-design process. > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ > > Nicely re-designed community college website: > http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ > > One of my favorite university library web sites: > http://www.lib.umn.edu/ > - re-designed in the last year or two? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Ian Chan > Assistant Professor > Web Services Librarian > UAA/APU Consortium Library > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ > 907.786.1835 > > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Sat Apr 15 10:37:26 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Sat Apr 15 10:38:39 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: References: <20060415002600.69681.qmail@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44410526.2060701@ohiolink.edu> I'm sure Jon can answer this at least as well as I can, but let me jump in. Most publicly funded institutions of higher education in the U.S. technically have a legal obligation [I am not a lawyer!] to make their web sites comply with Section 508, though there's explicitly no enforcement provision in that obligation. Regardless, you'd probably agree that you have an ethical obligation to make your site accessible to any of your users who happen to have vision, motor, or cognitive disabilities, especially when doing so is not very difficult. Complying with Section 508 or especially WCAG priority 2 (IMO) goes a long way toward ensuring that level of accessibility. If you comply with both the letter and the spirit of the HTML and CSS specifications, you take advantage of built-in mechanisms that are likely to make your pages work across browsers and versions; across a wide range of screen resolutions and window sizes--or lack of windows altogether in screen readers; and across a wide range of browser configuration settings (e.g. disabling scripting, as Microsoft continually recommends for IE users). When explaining this to your director, do not get thrown off by claims that standards-compliant web sites are more expensive to create, harder to maintain, or inherently unattractive. Compliance needs to be taken into account at an early stage in the design process, but from that point on does not add any great burden to creation and maintenance, and does not restrict any half-way imaginative designer. Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu On 4/15/2006 9:16 AM, Jon Goodell wrote: > Hi Steven, > > Can you explain in more detail why these standards are important to libraries, especially in the community college context? How should I explain this to my library director and her superiors? > > Thank you, > Jon > > Jon Goodell > Technology Services & Reference Librarian > Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library > North Little Rock, AR > 501-812-2718 > jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu > > ________________________________ > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Stiofan Perkins > Sent: Fri 4/14/2006 7:26 PM > To: Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website > > > > Ian: > > An interesting list. Only two of them pass the W3 > HTML validator, four of them pass the automated > section 508 tests at Cynthia Says, and none of them > pass the automated WAI tests also at Cynthia Says. > While those results do not mean the pages are > unaccessible, they do indicate that more attention > needs to be paid to accessibility in library web page > design. > > Regards, > > Steven C. Perkins > Coordinator of Reference Services > MD Anderson Library > University of Houston > > > --- Ian Chan wrote: > >> Hi Jon, >> >> This page lists several libraries that have >> undergone web redesigns in >> the last couple years: >> > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/libraries.php. >> The >> documentation from University of Washington was >> especially helpful. MIT >> libraries has also done an excellent job tracing >> their web development >> process. >> >> Summary of our re-design process. >> http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/about/project/ >> >> Nicely re-designed community college website: >> http://dept.sccd.ctc.edu/sslib/ >> >> One of my favorite university library web sites: >> http://www.lib.umn.edu/ >> - re-designed in the last year or two? >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------- >> Ian Chan >> Assistant Professor >> Web Services Librarian >> UAA/APU Consortium Library >> http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ >> 907.786.1835 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From kgs at bluehighways.com Sat Apr 15 11:02:46 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Sat Apr 15 11:02:59 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: <44410526.2060701@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <000901c6609d$a7e6a380$6401a8c0@venus> > When explaining this to your director, do not get thrown off by claims > that standards-compliant web sites are more expensive to create, harder > to maintain, or inherently unattractive. Compliance needs to be taken > into account at an early stage in the design process, but from that > point on does not add any great burden to creation and maintenance, and > does not restrict any half-way imaginative designer. Having been down this route with a former vendor from Hades... Also point out to your director that creating a standards-compliant website is insurance against costly and unanticipated surprises. Designing a website against the LGTM standard (Looks Good To Me) is a dangerous trap because if--make that, when--HTML changes and browsers change with it, you could find yourself with an unworkable mess that needs library resources redirected toward it mid-year just to be marginally functional--therefore diverting money away from some other pressing service. Being able to forecast and plan library spending is important. Also mention the important message a compliant website sends: that all are welcome at your library. In fact, in making this point, you will probably find that you need only reference your college's own statements. If you need an eloquent argument for standards compliance, I would be happy to supply our summary "yes, we expect compliance and no, we are not going to pay extra for it" report we sent to said demonic vendor. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Sat Apr 15 11:28:50 2006 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Sat Apr 15 11:28:52 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 Message-ID: Section 508 is a procurement law for Federal agencies. Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires that electronic and information technologies acquired by Federal agencies be accessible. Some people believe that Section 508 establishes a "building code" for entities outside the Federal government, but I just don't see such a provision in the law. If a university develops IT systems or Web sites for use by Federal agencies, then the law presumably applies. http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=3 says: "The standards cover technology procured by Federal agencies under contract with a private entity, but apply only to those products directly relevant to the contract and its deliverables." This is not to day that a university should not comply with Section 508 and other standards. My only point is that Section 508 imposes obligations on the Federal government, not on universities as does Title IX in college athletics or FERPA in student records. It is not a matter of the law not being enforced; it is simply not against that law for a university to put up a Web site that fails to meet 508 standards. Some universities have adopted campus-wide standards for official sites; many have not. /rich On 4/15/06, Thomas Dowling wrote: > > I'm sure Jon can answer this at least as well as I can, but let me jump > in. > > Most publicly funded institutions of higher education in the U.S. > technically have a legal obligation [I am not a lawyer!] to make their > web sites comply with Section 508, though there's explicitly no > enforcement provision in that obligation. From mkprescott at stcloudstate.edu Sat Apr 15 12:34:52 2006 From: mkprescott at stcloudstate.edu (Prescott, Melissa K. ) Date: Sat Apr 15 12:36:19 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Call for Submissions and Nominations for PRIMO References: Message-ID: <0451409FD6EF4F49AE13E3D1DD45280005EF0C@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu> The Emerging Technologies in Instruction Committee of the ACRL Instruction Section invites you to submit your online information literacy tutorial, virtual tour, or other online library instruction project for review and possible inclusion in PRIMO: Peer-Reviewed Instructional Materials Online. ***Deadlines*** Nominations: April 25, 2006 Submissions: May 9, 2006 The submission and nomination forms are available from the following links: http://www.ala.org/ala/acrlbucket/is/iscommittees/webpages/emergingtech/primo/index.htm or http://tinyurl.com/4et85 Site submissions for PRIMO are accepted continually, but are reviewed for possible inclusion twice per year. For further information, please contact committee co-chairs Susan A. Vega Garc?a at savega@iastate.edu and Mark Szarko at mszarko@uwb.edu. From CAGimon at mplib.org Sat Apr 15 12:40:58 2006 From: CAGimon at mplib.org (Gimon, Charles A) Date: Sat Apr 15 12:43:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 Message-ID: <7004EEA23644D84183003AE7B2A53EC3018762DD@alpha.mpls.lib.mn.us> Note that there are similar state statutes in effect as well. Compare Minnesota 16C145: http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/16C/145.html --Charles Gimon Web Coordinator Minneapolis Public Library ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Richard Wiggins Sent: Sat 4/15/2006 10:28 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 Section 508 is a procurement law for Federal agencies. Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires that electronic and information technologies acquired by Federal agencies be accessible. Some people believe that Section 508 establishes a "building code" for entities outside the Federal government, but I just don't see such a provision in the law. From leo at leoklein.com Sat Apr 15 13:08:04 2006 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Sat Apr 15 13:08:09 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: References: <20060415002600.69681.qmail@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44412874.6050406@leoklein.com> Jon Goodell wrote: > Hi Steven, > > Can you explain in more detail why these standards are important to libraries, > especially in the community college context? > How should I explain this to my library director and her superiors? > Jon, First, it's not like these standards are that much of a burden! In fact, more than anything, they're great indications that whoever's putting your site together knows what they're doing. Using standards like these, both web and accessibility, ensures that you're not going to get a flood of complaints saying your website doesn't work in their browser. If we were talking bricks-and-mortar here, this would count as insurance and part of the building code. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Sat Apr 15 15:09:10 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Sat Apr 15 15:09:45 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <444144D6.6080800@ohiolink.edu> On 4/15/2006 11:28 AM, Richard Wiggins wrote: > Section 508 is a procurement law for Federal agencies... My apologies if I overstated any legal requirement for publicly funded colleges and universities to comply with Section 508. I may be misremembering, but I thought that the U.S. Dept. of Education's assistive technology grants obliged the states or institutions that accepted them to comply. But the point is moot, since there are no accessibility police to enforce that obligation if it actually exists. In practice, all web sites should be accessible because it's the right thing to do, because it isn't a very difficult thing to do, and because not doing it is a remarkably effective way of telling some of your users that you're insensitive to their needs. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From scccp at yahoo.com Sat Apr 15 17:44:01 2006 From: scccp at yahoo.com (Stiofan Perkins) Date: Sat Apr 15 17:44:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 In-Reply-To: <7004EEA23644D84183003AE7B2A53EC3018762DD@alpha.mpls.lib.mn.us> Message-ID: <20060415214401.28817.qmail@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As noted, most US states have adopted laws for state websites that track either Sec 508 or the W3 WAI standards. I have posted several messages over the past year that refer to these laws. The Web4Lib archives should have them if you do a search on accessibility and section 508. There are similar laws in effect in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the UK. So, generally, if you receive public monies, then, yes, you probably have a positive duty to create an accessible web site. Here in Texas, the State has made it a requirement when contracting with website creators. Steven C. Perkins --- "Gimon, Charles A" wrote: > Note that there are similar state statutes in effect > as well. Compare Minnesota 16C145: > > http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/16C/145.html > > --Charles Gimon > Web Coordinator > Minneapolis Public Library > > ________________________________ > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of > Richard Wiggins > Sent: Sat 4/15/2006 10:28 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Section 508 > > > > Section 508 is a procurement law for Federal > agencies. Section 508 of the > Rehabilitation Act requires that electronic and > information > technologies acquired by Federal agencies be > accessible. Some people > believe that Section 508 establishes a "building > code" for entities outside > the Federal government, but I just don't see such a > provision in the law. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From brad.eden at unlv.edu Mon Apr 17 14:09:21 2006 From: brad.eden at unlv.edu (brad.eden@unlv.edu) Date: Mon Apr 17 14:08:26 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Call for articles on institutional repositories Message-ID: Please excuse duplicate postings. Forward to other listservs and interested colleagues. _OCLC Systems & Services: International Digital Library Perspectives_ will be publishing a special issue on institutional repositories in early 2007. This peer-reviewed journal is looking for case studies related to the planning, implementation, collaboration, metadata decisions, ongoing issues, etc. of institutional repositories. Lessons learned, mistakes to avoid, cooperation among various constituencies are also topics of interest. Please direct all questions and proposals to the editor, Dr. Brad Eden, by April 30 for approval. Deadline for article drafts will be October 2006. Do not reply to this message; please send all correspondence to the email provided below. Thanks. Dr. Brad Eden Editor, _OSS: IDLP_ Associate University Librarian for Technical Services and Scholarly Communication University of California, Santa Barbara eden@library.ucsb.edu From afitc at uaa.alaska.edu Mon Apr 17 15:02:53 2006 From: afitc at uaa.alaska.edu (Ian Chan) Date: Mon Apr 17 15:02:59 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library Website Message-ID: <467FCAC25A1FD04A9FEE5A56910BE7DA238103@ANCEXCHANGE.uaa.alaska.edu> Hi Jon, There is a practical reason -- it helps the user who has difficulty visually accessing web content. While I worked at Seattle Central Community College, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to work with a vision-impaired student. Her only means of receiving the content on our web site was via audio output from JAWs. While accessibility guidelines were very helpful, listening in as she used our site - and hearing her frustrations - was even more instructive. For example, it was frustrating to listen to the site-wide menus (Find Books and submenus, Find Articles and submenus, etc.) repeated at the beginning of every library web page. To fix this, we reformatted the ASP output for the library's web pages to place the HTML for the site-wide menu at the end of the code. Visually, the menu still appeared on the left (via CSS), but when the page was read by a screen reader the menu links were read last. The number of vision-impaired students was a tiny percentage of the total student population served. Nonetheless, it made a difference to them that we tried to meet their needs. As I said earlier, we were fortunate. We stumbled into the situation while helping that student at the Reference Desk. I had configured our library site to meet as many accessibility standards as time permitted but had not thought to contact our Disability Support Services office to find users who could help test the site. I learned that a little testing with diverse users can help. It doesn't cost much but does take more time. We did not fix every problem but we did receive feedback that our fixes were helpful. There are a number of websites, articles, and books (some written by librarians) that will provide excellent justification for striving to meet accessibility guidelines. BTW -- checkout these extensions for IE6 and Firefox: http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/ais/toolbar/ & https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=60. They offer quick links for testing accessibility. Regards, --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: Jon Goodell [mailto:jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu] Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:17 AM To: Stiofan Perkins; Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Hi Steven, Can you explain in more detail why these standards are important to libraries, especially in the community college context? How should I explain this to my library director and her superiors? Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Stiofan Perkins Sent: Fri 4/14/2006 7:26 PM To: Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Ian: An interesting list. Only two of them pass the W3 HTML validator, four of them pass the automated section 508 tests at Cynthia Says, and none of them pass the automated WAI tests also at Cynthia Says. While those results do not mean the pages are unaccessible, they do indicate that more attention needs to be paid to accessibility in library web page design. Regards, Steven C. Perkins Coordinator of Reference Services MD Anderson Library University of Houston From samhines at gmail.com Mon Apr 17 15:53:13 2006 From: samhines at gmail.com (Samantha Schmehl Hines) Date: Mon Apr 17 15:53:16 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] NMRT Conference Mentoring now taking applications! Message-ID: <2f720b6d0604171253t11b6cca3g92c6adbe7141e79c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Colleagues, The New Members Round Table (NMRT) Mentoring Committee is once again seeking mentors for their Conference Mentoring Program at the ALA Annual Conference in June! The Conference Mentoring Program is a great way to network with individuals who are new to the profession. It is open to all ALA members and is designed to connect a first time conference attendee with a 'Seasoned Professional' who can help them navigate the ALA Annual Conference. Do you remember being overwhelmed at your first ALA Conference? Do you consider yourself a Conference Pro now? This is your opportunity to help a new professional learn the ropes.... Sign up today to be a Conference Mentor! What better way to give back to the profession, build leadership skills, and reminisce on those early days than to be a mentor - plus it looks great on a resume or a tenure dossier! Interested in being a mentor? Please complete an online application form at www.ala.org/ala/nmrt/comm/conferenceMentorApp.htm. Additional information about the Conference Mentoring Program is also available on the NMRT web site at www.ala.org/NMRT . The application deadline is May 5th, 2006. If you have questions, please contact the NMRT Mentoring Committee at nmrt_mentoring@yahoo.com. Please feel free to share this invitation with your colleagues. Thank you, Jennifer Cella Co-chair, NMRT Mentoring Committee From bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 16:17:14 2006 From: bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com (Kelly Green) Date: Mon Apr 17 16:17:26 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Clarification on Section 508 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060417201714.75434.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Richard, I feel I need to further clarify your post. You are correct that Section 508 is a Federal Procurement law. . From the USDED Section 508 Resources web page: Section 508 requires Federal departments and agencies that develop, procure, maintain, or use electronic and information technology to ensure that Federal employees and members of the public with disabilities have access to and use of information and data, comparable to that of the employees and members of the public without disabilities. However, some states have laws and/or regulations that require their agencies to also follow Section 508 standards. Thus, people need to check their state laws. The Information Technology Technical Assistance and Training Center has a great resource that covers state accessibility issues. From reading this thread, I think that people are confusing various laws and regs. It is pretty common to confuse Section 504, Section 508 and ADA Title II and Title III requirements. All of these pertain to access and discrimination issues. Section 504 is an Education Civil Rights law that applies to any educational group, program, or establishement. It states that no one, including those with disabilities, are to be excluded from the participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance . . ."[1] As someone who has been covered under Section 504 as a student from elementary - graduate school -- and the ADA from the time it was passed -- these laws are applicable to state and localities. From my understanding, if you have a site that is compliant under ADA -- you will be ok under Sections 504 and 508. Is this true? Under the Section 504 (of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973) if you receive federal funds then you must comply with the regulations. There are few colleges/universities that do not receive such funds -- even private school often receive federal funding. Title II of the ADA applies only to public entities -- thus, private schools and other private organizations do not have to comply to the ADA. An excerpt from the DOJ's ADA website article on website accessibility: The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and, if the government entities receive Federal funding, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, generally require that State and local governments provide qualified individuals with disabilities equal access to their programs, services, or activities unless doing so would fundamentally alter the nature of their programs, services, or activities or would impose an undue burden. Another article I like, "Questions and Answers on Disability Discrimination under Section 504 and Title II", helps to differentiate between ADA Title II and Section 508 requirements. Another short article highlighting Section 504 and ADA is "Disability Discrimination: Overview of the Laws" on the Dept. of Ed site. For those of you who work for in a special library, Title III pertains to: "places of public accommodation" (businesses and non-profit agencies that serve the public) and "commercial facilities" (other businesses). From summary found on the ADA Regulations and Technical Assistance Materials website. I work for a state agency and any prop osals we recieve for communications/information tech has to be Section 508 and ADA compliant. I had fun explaining this to prospective vendors during the process of our RFP. "No, *almost* compliant does *not* count." oh and of course "Yes, you state that your next release will be Section 508 and ADA compliant. But, we are purchasing a system *this* year.' *sigh* Kelly Green ~KM Analyst/Digital Librarian w/lifetime lessons in disability law Richard Wiggins wrote: Section 508 is a procurement law for Federal agencies. Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires that electronic and information technologies acquired by Federal agencies be accessible. Some people believe that Section 508 establishes a "building code" for entities outside the Federal government, but I just don't see such a provision in the law. If a university develops IT systems or Web sites for use by Federal agencies, then the law presumably applies. http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=3 says: "The standards cover technology procured by Federal agencies under contract with a private entity, but apply only to those products directly relevant to the contract and its deliverables." This is not to day that a university should not comply with Section 508 and other standards. My only point is that Section 508 imposes obligations on the Federal government, not on universities as does Title IX in college athletics or FERPA in student records. It is not a matter of the law not being enforced; it is simply not against that law for a university to put up a Web site that fails to meet 508 standards. Some universities have adopted campus-wide standards for official sites; many have not. /rich On 4/15/06, Thomas Dowling wrote: > > I'm sure Jon can answer this at least as well as I can, but let me jump > in. > > Most publicly funded institutions of higher education in the U.S. > technically have a legal obligation [I am not a lawyer!] to make their > web sites comply with Section 508, though there's explicitly no > enforcement provision in that obligation. _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2?/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From kgs at bluehighways.com Mon Apr 17 16:41:45 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Mon Apr 17 16:41:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Clarification on Clarification on Section 508 In-Reply-To: <20060417201714.75434.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c6625f$58038a40$6401a8c0@venus> "Yes, you state that your next release will be Section 508 and ADA compliant. But, we are purchasing a system *this* year.' *sigh* ------- I have been way too busy to hold forth on this topic, but after a vendor told me that three features I had specified were not in fact available at time of testing but would be out in 4.0 (release date TBA), I decided that this would be my excuse for any future personal shortcomings. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie Tue Apr 18 07:23:07 2006 From: jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie (John Fitzgibbon) Date: Tue Apr 18 07:23:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] 'request timed out' versus 'destination host unreachable' Message-ID: Hi, I'm preparing a short document on network troubleshooting for the staff here. When a server is down, we sometimes get a 'destination host unreachable' message from a router when we ping it. Sometimes, we get the message 'request timed out'. My guess is that the latter is caused by the nearest router being too busy to reply. Am I right in this? Also, when a router fails to get a reply (request timed out) from the server that is down does it send a 'destination host unreachable' message back up the line? What precisely is the difference between the two responses that we get? Also, I'm unable to simulate a 'destination network unreachable' message even when I type in a nonsensical IP address that is definitely not on our network. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. Regards John ******************************************************************* Tá eolas atá príobháideach agus rúnda sa ríomhphost seo agus aon iatán a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amháin a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. Mura seolaí thú, níl tú údaraithe an ríomhphost nó aon iatán a ghabhann leis a léamh, a chóipáil ná a úsáid. Má tá an ríomhphost seo faighte agat trí dhearmad, cuir an seoltóir ar an eolas thrí aischur ríomhphoist agus scrios ansin é le do thoil. This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. ********************************************************************* From jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie Tue Apr 18 07:32:46 2006 From: jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie (John Fitzgibbon) Date: Tue Apr 18 07:33:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Using DNS to assign a name to a host on a different domain Message-ID: Hi, Is it possible to use DNS to assign a name to a host on a different domain? For example, I control the domain galwaylibrary.ie. The domain clarelibrary.ie is controlled by someone else. Is it possible for me to point clare.galwaylibrary.ie at the IP address of www.clarelibrary.ie ? In other words, does DNS work across domains or only within domains? Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. Regards John ******************************************************************* Tá eolas atá príobháideach agus rúnda sa ríomhphost seo agus aon iatán a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amháin a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. Mura seolaí thú, níl tú údaraithe an ríomhphost nó aon iatán a ghabhann leis a léamh, a chóipáil ná a úsáid. Má tá an ríomhphost seo faighte agat trí dhearmad, cuir an seoltóir ar an eolas thrí aischur ríomhphoist agus scrios ansin é le do thoil. This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. ********************************************************************* From krichel at openlib.org Tue Apr 18 08:51:45 2006 From: krichel at openlib.org (Thomas Krichel) Date: Tue Apr 18 08:50:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Using DNS to assign a name to a host on a different domain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060418125145.GB15983@openlib.org> John Fitzgibbon writes > Is it possible to use DNS to assign a name to a host on a different > domain? For example, I control the domain galwaylibrary.ie. The domain > clarelibrary.ie is controlled by someone else. Is it possible for me to > point clare.galwaylibrary.ie at the IP address of www.clarelibrary.ie > ? Sure. There are two ways to do it. An "A" record associates your name clare.galwaylibrary.ie with the IP address of www.clarelibrary.ie, which is 195.7.56.195. In a BIND configuration file clare.galwaylibrary.ie. IN A 195.7.56.195 You can also associate clare.galwaylibrary.ie with the name www.clarelibrary.ie. This is known as a "CNAME". In a BIND configuration file clare.galwaylibrary.ie. IN CNANE www.clarelibrary.ie. Note the position of the dots in the two example lines. Cheers, Thomas Krichel mailto:krichel@openlib.org http://openlib.org/home/krichel RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel skype id: thomaskrichel From JBloy at edgewood.edu Tue Apr 18 11:35:06 2006 From: JBloy at edgewood.edu (Jonathan Bloy) Date: Tue Apr 18 11:35:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Review limiting Message-ID: Our library is considering adding a federated search product, and we've got a question for those of you now using them. In your experience, have Federated Search programs been able to reliably limit to Full Text and/or Peer Reviewed articles? We're especially interested in those programs that are hosted remotely rather than locally. -- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu From beth.reiten at okstate.edu Tue Apr 18 12:44:56 2006 From: beth.reiten at okstate.edu (Reiten, Beth) Date: Tue Apr 18 12:46:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Reviewlimiting Message-ID: <80D14E569B0CA2478CFFFCD2B0C5C64D010C4B35@EXE1.ad.okstate.edu> Not yet. We've had Serials Solutions' Central Search for a little less than a year (public since January), and we turned off the peer reviewed filter in September and turned off the full-text filter before we rolled it out to the public. The problem seems to be the same problem as with other parts of the federated searching puzzle: the lack of standardization in how data is sent across. It seems as though these two nuts are harder to crack than some of the others, perhaps because they're more optional than something like a title. At the same time, I know this is something Serials Solutions is working on, and I suspect they'll have it cracked in the semi-near future. ----------------------------------------------------------------- *Please note my new email address* ----------------------------------------------------------------- Beth Reiten, Asst. Professor & Librarian Digital Library Services Edmon Low Library Oklahoma State University Phone: 405-744-9109 Email: beth.reiten@okstate.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Bloy Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:35 AM To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Reviewlimiting Our library is considering adding a federated search product, and we've got a question for those of you now using them. In your experience, have Federated Search programs been able to reliably limit to Full Text and/or Peer Reviewed articles? We're especially interested in those programs that are hosted remotely rather than locally. -- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From daskey at ksu.edu Tue Apr 18 12:52:37 2006 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Tue Apr 18 12:54:02 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Review limiting Message-ID: <44451955.1040506@ksu.edu> Jonathan, I think your question gets at the heart of one of the core weaknesses of federated searching, i.e.- it can't do a better job than (or even as good of a job as) any given database's native interface. Unless the native interface allows limiting to full text or peer-reviewed articles, there's at best dim hope that you could get the former to work, and practically none for the latter. Now I know a few of you highly-skilled programmer types are just looking to prove me wrong, and for a few limited database targets you might succeed, but let's be realistic. With a remotely-hosted service, you're never going to have such control over the search behavior, and with locally-hosted, you'd need some very, very talented folk (read: large budget or blind luck) to get a fed search engine to do this. It may have less to do with the technical aspects, frankly, and more to do with the potpourri of data that the targets return. Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that problem is largely solved. Dale quoted message: Our library is considering adding a federated search product, and we've got a question for those of you now using them. In your experience, have Federated Search programs been able to reliably limit to Full Text and/or Peer Reviewed articles? We're especially interested in those programs that are hosted remotely rather than locally. -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us Tue Apr 18 13:05:00 2006 From: margaret.e.hazel at ci.eugene.or.us (HAZEL Margaret E) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:06:30 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) Message-ID: Has anyone come up with a way to do an RSS feed from an email list, yet? I know you can get email updates of blogs, but I haven't seen a way to aggregate updates to email lists. -Margaret Margaret E. Hazel Principal Librarian, Technology Eugene Public Library Eugene, OR 541-682-6015 From TPlumb at uwyo.edu Tue Apr 18 13:24:34 2006 From: TPlumb at uwyo.edu (Tawnya Plumb) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:24:38 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the software? What other software would you consider for creating tutorials? Thanks for your input, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper Law Library College of Law, University of Wyoming tplumb@uwyo.edu 307.766.5733 From kmunro at library.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 18 13:36:12 2006 From: kmunro at library.berkeley.edu (Karen Munro) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:36:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060418103039.02b54210@library.berkeley.edu> Hi Tawnya, I've been getting to know Captivate for the last few weeks. So far I consider it a more intuitive tool than Camtasia (with which I'm not greatly familiar, I admit), and I find the editing suite much more flexible, although not without some quirks. There are numerous comparisons of Camtasia, Captivate, ViewletBuilder, and even Wink (a free download screencasting software) online. The "screencasting" entry on Wikipedia links to a few at the end of the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screencast You can find others by Googling different combinations of keywords. I'd be interested in corresponding with other librarians using Captivate, if any care to self-identify ;). I'm still relatively new at using the software, but have already come up with some questions that aren't answered by Macromedia's documentation and tutorials. I suspect that other users may have found some of the same issues--perhaps we can help each other out. Best wishes to all, Karen Munro Karen Munro E-Learning Librarian University of California, Berkeley Doe/Moffitt Libraries Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 kmunro@library.berkeley.edu 510-643-1636 At 10:24 AM 4/18/2006, Tawnya Plumb wrote: >Hi all, > > > >Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to >create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the >software? What other software would you consider for creating >tutorials? > > > >Thanks for your input, > > > >Tawnya Plumb > >Electronic Services Librarian > >George W. Hopper Law Library > >College of Law, University of Wyoming > >tplumb@uwyo.edu > >307.766.5733 From ahubble at ucsc.edu Tue Apr 18 13:41:25 2006 From: ahubble at ucsc.edu (Ann B Hubble) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:41:44 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I've used both Captivate (now owned by Adobe) and Camtasia. I prefer Captivate. It seems more straightforward in general, but especially for creating text 'bubbles' within the movie. It is also fairly easy to edit and add/delete sections within the movie. I have yet to add sound (narration) but have played around with this on test movies and it seems really easy. Just wish they would come up with a version for the mac... -Ann Ann Hubble Science & Engineering Library University of California, Santa Cruz On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:24:34 -0600 "Tawnya Plumb" wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate >(or RoboDemo) to > create online database tutorials? What is your >impression of the > software? What other software would you consider for >creating > tutorials? > > > > Thanks for your input, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper Law Library > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > tplumb@uwyo.edu > > 307.766.5733 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From AbdoneyM at wlu.edu Tue Apr 18 13:50:59 2006 From: AbdoneyM at wlu.edu (Mary Abdoney) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:51:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4444EEC3020000DA00004834@GwD1.wlu.edu> I'm using Captivate to create several database tutorials, and while it takes some getting used to, it has many great options. I've been able to do anything I've wanted, although it has taken some trial and error to get things to look perfect. Admittedly, this is the only tutorial software I've ever used, so I can't compare it to other products. I just found out about Tapefailure, which looks like it offers some of the basic stuff, but probably not text bubbles, highlights and rollover captions like Captivate. A self-identified Captivate user, Mary Abdoney --- Mary M. Abdoney Science Librarian Telford Science Library Washington & Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 540.458.8647 abdoneym@wlu.edu http://library.wlu.edu/about/Mary%20Abdoney.asp http://del.icio.us/WLUSciLibrarian >>> "Tawnya Plumb" 4/18/2006 1:24 PM >>> Hi all, Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the software? What other software would you consider for creating tutorials? Thanks for your input, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper Law Library College of Law, University of Wyoming tplumb@uwyo.edu 307.766.5733 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From kstaley at lansing.lib.il.us Tue Apr 18 13:49:09 2006 From: kstaley at lansing.lib.il.us (Kelli Staley) Date: Tue Apr 18 13:52:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feed from email list References: Message-ID: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> Try Bloglines. http://www.bloglines.com/help/faq#WhyEmail Kelli Staley Information Technology Services Lansing Public Library 2750 Indiana Avenue Lansing, IL 60438 (708) 474-2447 ext. 123 http://www.lansing.lib.il.us kstaley@lansing.lib.il.us ----- Original Message ----- From: "HAZEL Margaret E" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) Has anyone come up with a way to do an RSS feed from an email list, yet? I know you can get email updates of blogs, but I haven't seen a way to aggregate updates to email lists. -Margaret Margaret E. Hazel Principal Librarian, Technology Eugene Public Library Eugene, OR 541-682-6015 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jtgorman at uiuc.edu Tue Apr 18 14:00:44 2006 From: jtgorman at uiuc.edu (Jonathan Gorman) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:00:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Has anyone come up with a way to do an RSS feed from an email list, yet? > I know you can get email updates of blogs, but I haven't seen a way to > aggregate updates to email lists. Googling "email to rss" turned up a few free services and a couple of plugins for various rss readers. http://www.masternewmedia.org/2004/02/01/email_to_rss_in_three.htm http://www.hatch.org/blog/2003/10/01/email2rss.php I'd imagine it would be pretty straightforward for a techie to setup, even from scratch if needed. Jonathan T. Gorman Visiting Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana 216 Main Library - MC522 1408 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 244-4688 On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, HAZEL Margaret E wrote: > > > -Margaret > > Margaret E. Hazel > Principal Librarian, Technology > Eugene Public Library > Eugene, OR > 541-682-6015 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Tue Apr 18 14:03:09 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:05:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feed from email list In-Reply-To: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> Message-ID: By the way, those who use Bloglines to read Web4Lib should know that I have to boot such subscriptions on a regular basis due to bounced mail. I'm not sure to what to blame that on, but if you suddenly don't see Web4Lib anymore, that may be the cause. Thanks, Roy On Apr 18, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Kelli Staley wrote: > Try Bloglines. > > http://www.bloglines.com/help/faq#WhyEmail > > > Kelli Staley > Information Technology Services > Lansing Public Library > 2750 Indiana Avenue > Lansing, IL 60438 > (708) 474-2447 ext. 123 > http://www.lansing.lib.il.us > kstaley@lansing.lib.il.us > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "HAZEL Margaret E" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:05 PM > Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) > > > > Has anyone come up with a way to do an RSS feed from an email list, > yet? > I know you can get email updates of blogs, but I haven't seen a way to > aggregate updates to email lists. > > -Margaret > > Margaret E. Hazel > Principal Librarian, Technology > Eugene Public Library > Eugene, OR > 541-682-6015 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From paul at incolsa.net Tue Apr 18 14:16:13 2006 From: paul at incolsa.net (Paul Conrad) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:17:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200604181817.k3IIHTuM023068@valiant.incolsa.net> I have been using Captivate for a few months now and I have found it to be an excellent tool! I have used others in the past including Toolbook II and Camtasia, and this beats them all. Paul M. Conrad Curriculum Technology Specialist INCOLSA 317.298.6570 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tawnya Plumb Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:25 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Hi all, Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the software? What other software would you consider for creating tutorials? Thanks for your input, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper Law Library College of Law, University of Wyoming tplumb@uwyo.edu 307.766.5733 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Tue Apr 18 14:24:15 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:24:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Review limiting In-Reply-To: <44451955.1040506@ksu.edu> References: <44451955.1040506@ksu.edu> Message-ID: On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Dale Askey wrote: > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > problem is largely solved. I disagree strongly with this position. Slapping a link resolver button on each search result does little to help the user focus on only content that is available in full-text. Expecting the user to successively click on a link resolver button for each and every result, not knowing what they can expect, strikes me as particularly user-hostile. Realizing this, places like the University of Rochester, CSU San Marcos, and now soon us at the California Digital Library, are developing services that will do a lookup to the OpenURL resolver _before_ putting the search results up, so we can depict whether an item is available in full-text or not (with a link direct to the source). Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of good user service. Roy From afitc at uaa.alaska.edu Tue Apr 18 14:32:02 2006 From: afitc at uaa.alaska.edu (Ian Chan) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:32:12 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: <467FCAC25A1FD04A9FEE5A56910BE7DA2381C7@ANCEXCHANGE.uaa.alaska.edu> Here's a fairly recent comparison from a tech magazine. http://redmondmag.com/features/article.asp?editorialsid=557 The article initially points to Captivate as being superior - however an addendum at the end seems to even out the differences. Both Captivate and Camtasia offer free trials. Captivate may generate smaller file sizes. Has anyone used Apple's Keynote to create online tutorials? --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ann B Hubble Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:41 AM To: Tawnya Plumb; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Yes, I've used both Captivate (now owned by Adobe) and Camtasia. I prefer Captivate. It seems more straightforward in general, but especially for creating text 'bubbles' within the movie. It is also fairly easy to edit and add/delete sections within the movie. I have yet to add sound (narration) but have played around with this on test movies and it seems really easy. Just wish they would come up with a version for the mac... -Ann Ann Hubble Science & Engineering Library University of California, Santa Cruz On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:24:34 -0600 "Tawnya Plumb" wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) >to > create online database tutorials? What is your >impression of the > software? What other software would you consider for >creating > tutorials? > > > > Thanks for your input, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper Law Library > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > tplumb@uwyo.edu > > 307.766.5733 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From mgfarkas at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 14:38:50 2006 From: mgfarkas at gmail.com (Meredith Farkas) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:38:54 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have been using Captivate for over a year and love it. It's so intuitive and in my opinion is the best tool for creating a really polished screencast. They make it really easy to record audio after the video and alter the timing of each frame of the screencast to fit the audio. That being said, there is one major flaw I have found that would give me pause before purchasing it. Sometimes when you have everything nicely uploaded to the Web and you try to view the screencst, the video will lag behind the audio. So your narrator is describing something that the viewer will see 10 seconds later. If you pull the timing bar back to the begining and start again, it works fine, but how many students will think to do that? Not sure if it is a problem with all screencasting software (like a limitation of the computers playing the screencast) or just a Captivate problem. I tried out Camtasia a year ago and I wasn't crazy about it (versus Captivate) but I know they have really improved the software since then and have heard a lot of good things recently. Last year, I reviewed both Captivate and Camtasia here http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/index.php?p=206. Keep in mind though that is was an older version of Camtasia and that I was not yet aware of the timing problems with Captivate. This site gives an excellent overview of what's out there and what to consider before purchasing the software http://www.donationcoder.com/Reviews/Archive/ScreenCasting/ I know a lot of people also use Qarbon Viewlet Builder and I've heard good things about that. It's also less costly than Captivate, I believe. Cheers, Meredith On 4/18/06, Tawnya Plumb wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to > create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the > software? What other software would you consider for creating > tutorials? > > > > Thanks for your input, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper Law Library > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > tplumb@uwyo.edu > > 307.766.5733 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Meredith Gorran Farkas http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/ From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Tue Apr 18 14:42:39 2006 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Tue Apr 18 14:43:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Review limiting Message-ID: However, using such visual cues as the appearance (or non-appearance) of the link resolver button/link could only further the reliance on full-text. Encouraging this behavior would encourage the students to ignore anything that is not easily available, causing them to miss a still rather large segment of literature and information. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> Roy Tennant 4/18/2006 1:24 PM >>> On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Dale Askey wrote: > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > problem is largely solved. I disagree strongly with this position. Slapping a link resolver button on each search result does little to help the user focus on only content that is available in full-text. Expecting the user to successively click on a link resolver button for each and every result, not knowing what they can expect, strikes me as particularly user-hostile. Realizing this, places like the University of Rochester, CSU San Marcos, and now soon us at the California Digital Library, are developing services that will do a lookup to the OpenURL resolver _before_ putting the search results up, so we can depict whether an item is available in full-text or not (with a link direct to the source). Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of good user service. Roy _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Tue Apr 18 15:10:09 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Tue Apr 18 15:10:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Review limiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23b83f160604181210m2e4ed874xe7fa773050754256@mail.gmail.com> If you think they're not going to do that anyway, you are grossly overestimating your audience. The truth is that there's a near infinite number of citations available. Your library has a very finite number of titles/resources. The more times the user clicks on a link to wind up at your resolver screen (and there's no fulltext available) the user is going to view that as 'a failed search'. Unless the user knows that this citation is absolutely essential to the task at hand, they will not request it via ILL. Further, even if you own the item in print, but your link resolver is unable to tell the user that (say, it's a conference proceeding, a government document or merely a different edition of a book), this will also be viewed as a failure. The more these failures add up, the less confidence the user will have that 'clicking on a link resolver button' will get them anything worthwhile. The smaller your collection (or the larger the amount of searchable citations) will only make this worse. Honestly, it is /essential/ that we integrate the link resolver better into results. Whether that means different icons for different level support, different text, different menus, whatever. Constantly sending the users down a long and dark hallway into a room full of closed doors is not going to inspire a lot of patron confidence in our services. -Ross. On 4/18/06, Karen Harker wrote: > > However, using such visual cues as the appearance (or non-appearance) of > the link resolver button/link could only further the reliance on full-text. > Encouraging this behavior would encourage the students to ignore anything > that is not easily available, causing them to miss a still rather large > segment of literature and information. > > > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-8946 > http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ > > >>> Roy Tennant 4/18/2006 1:24 PM >>> > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Dale Askey wrote: > > > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > > problem is largely solved. > > I disagree strongly with this position. Slapping a link resolver > button on each search result does little to help the user focus on > only content that is available in full-text. Expecting the user to > successively click on a link resolver button for each and every > result, not knowing what they can expect, strikes me as particularly > user-hostile. Realizing this, places like the University of > Rochester, CSU San Marcos, and now soon us at the California Digital > Library, are developing services that will do a lookup to the OpenURL > resolver _before_ putting the search results up, so we can depict > whether an item is available in full-text or not (with a link direct > to the source). > > Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to > full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still > difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So > no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of > good user service. > Roy > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From dwalker at csusm.edu Tue Apr 18 15:48:51 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Tue Apr 18 15:49:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CAFEF34@priority.csusm.edu> >> Encouraging this behavior would encourage the >> students to ignore anything that is not easily available I understand your concern here, Karen. I think libraries need to seek out opportunities to encourage students to look for the best resources, rather than just those that are easiest to get. That's important to good research. But I think Ross and Roy are entirely right here. Forcing users to click on a link resolver button for each search result just to determine that item's availability does little or nothing to encourage users to look for the most appropriate resources. It simply frustrates them. Likewise, we have to view each interaction with the library as an opportunity to win-over our users. If our systems are not easy-to-use, our users have an increasing number of other places they can go. We need to meet students where they are, and design metasearch and other systems to better meet their goals and behavior. Once we've got them hooked on using the library, we can, through instructional sessions and in reference encounters, encourage them to get beyond immediate full-text only. But it has to be a carrot rather than a stick. --Dave -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Karen Harker Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:43 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting However, using such visual cues as the appearance (or non-appearance) of the link resolver button/link could only further the reliance on full-text. Encouraging this behavior would encourage the students to ignore anything that is not easily available, causing them to miss a still rather large segment of literature and information. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> Roy Tennant 4/18/2006 1:24 PM >>> On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Dale Askey wrote: > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > problem is largely solved. I disagree strongly with this position. Slapping a link resolver button on each search result does little to help the user focus on only content that is available in full-text. Expecting the user to successively click on a link resolver button for each and every result, not knowing what they can expect, strikes me as particularly user-hostile. Realizing this, places like the University of Rochester, CSU San Marcos, and now soon us at the California Digital Library, are developing services that will do a lookup to the OpenURL resolver _before_ putting the search results up, so we can depict whether an item is available in full-text or not (with a link direct to the source). Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of good user service. Roy _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 16:25:32 2006 From: bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com (Kelly Green) Date: Tue Apr 18 16:25:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: [AccessibleWeb4lib] Library Website In-Reply-To: <467FCAC25A1FD04A9FEE5A56910BE7DA238103@ANCEXCHANGE.uaa.alaska.edu> Message-ID: <20060418202532.66197.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Ian, You provided a great story background for the needs of users with low vision as well as some good tips. The ability to seperate the content from the display so cleanly is exactly why I love CSS. When designing for accessability, web creators need to consider users with hearing and mobility issues as well. I am severely hard of hearing and the web, which used to be the most deaf-friendly place in the world has been increasingly hosting sound only files. Now, for music and other files that were never meant to be information based this is fine! The problem comes from those sites that record interviews, speeches, classes, even tutorials and do not provide either a transcript or captioning. Captioning is most preferred for multimedia, since it's pretty boring to just read and there are often facial and body language cues in the video. I recently saw a reasonably priced cationing software that is meant to be used with multi media files. I have no idea how well it does the job, from my quick reading it appeared that the author/producer adds the captioning. More on captioning for 508 compliance can be found on About.com . Some designing decisions for users with mobility issues involve ensuring the site can be navigated with speech to text navigation -- as you need to do for low vision users. In addition, make sure that your tab order makes sense. Someone who is unable to use a mouse may be using keyboard, joystick, mouth stick or other input device that will utilize the tab key command. Similarly, make sure that your site does not require users to use a mouse to get information. Some sites have wonderfully interesting hover effects, but make sure that users who are unable to hover do not miss important information. For more on mobility user information check out the HTML version of Joe Clark's book on accessible design. It is slightly out of date in that he focuses more upon tables than CSS -- but he does include stylesheets. I recently found a few websites that show what users with different forms of color-blindness see when they see certain combinations of colors via sample pictures. There is one color scheme selector that will display your selected colors as they would appear to a green/blue and to a red/green color blind users. I found them very interesting and have rethought my tendencies to convey information via color! My newly discovered favorite free color tool is the ColorSchemer written by Pixie on wellstyled.com You can check your actual website after it is public by using:: http://colorfilter.wickline.org/ I have also seen some suggestions for better enabling students with Dyslexia and other reading disorders to use the website. Frankly most of the suggestions I've seen are good guides to good web-based writing for general audiences. You also said: had not thought to contact our Disability Support Services office to find users who could help test the site. I love this idea for those who are in academic libraries. Just be sure to request that students with a variety of disabilities join the testing. In addtion, thanks for the firefox extension :) Kelly Green KM Content Analyst Ian Chan wrote: Hi Jon, There is a practical reason -- it helps the user who has difficulty visually accessing web content. While accessibility guidelines were very helpful, listening in as she used our site - and hearing her frustrations - was even moreinstructive. Visually, the menu still appeared on the left (via CSS), but when the page was read by a screen reader the menu links were read last. accessibility standards as time permitted but had not thought to contact our Disability Support Services office to find users who could help test the site. I learned that a little testing with diverse users can help. It doesn't cost much but does take more time. We did not fix every problem but we did receive feedback that our fixes were helpful. There are a number of websites, articles, and books (some written by librarians) that will provide excellent justification for striving to meet accessibility guidelines. BTW -- checkout these extensions for IE6 and Firefox: http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/ais/toolbar/ & https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=60. They offer quick links for testing accessibility. Regards, --------------------------------------------------------- Ian Chan Assistant Professor Web Services Librarian UAA/APU Consortium Library http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/ 907.786.1835 -----Original Message----- From: Jon Goodell [mailto:jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu] Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:17 AM To: Stiofan Perkins; Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Hi Steven, Can you explain in more detail why these standards are important to libraries, especially in the community college context? How should I explain this to my library director and her superiors? Thank you, Jon Jon Goodell Technology Services & Reference Librarian Pulaski Technical College - Ottenheimer Library North Little Rock, AR 501-812-2718 jgoodell@pulaskitech.edu ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Stiofan Perkins Sent: Fri 4/14/2006 7:26 PM To: Ian Chan; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Library Website Ian: An interesting list. Only two of them pass the W3 HTML validator, four of them pass the automated section 508 tests at Cynthia Says, and none of them pass the automated WAI tests also at Cynthia Says. While those results do not mean the pages are unaccessible, they do indicate that more attention needs to be paid to accessibility in library web page design. Regards, Steven C. Perkins Coordinator of Reference Services MD Anderson Library University of Houston _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2?/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From infomancy at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 16:54:55 2006 From: infomancy at gmail.com (Christopher Harris) Date: Tue Apr 18 16:55:00 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2a4376d30604181354i66d6d515o9821bf111f80a0e4@mail.gmail.com> Others covered the basics, but what I would add is that Captivate seems makes the movies "smoother" Instead of trying to capture the mouse movement they capture the essence of the motion. You can also easily edit the mouse track later on. Another huge thing that nobody has touched on is the ability of Captivate to truly create self-guided tutorials that include assessments and feedback. You can set up a "practice" session where the user has to go through the motions and click on the right menu items in order to pass the test. This provides a very nice level of user interaction with the tutorial. chris On 4/18/06, Tawnya Plumb wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to > > create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the > > software? What other software would you consider for creating > > tutorials? > > > > Thanks for your input, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper Law Library > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > tplumb@uwyo.edu > > 307.766.5733 > -- Chris Harris - infomancy@gmail.com - http://schoolof.info/infomancy From libdgg at langate.gsu.edu Tue Apr 18 17:13:35 2006 From: libdgg at langate.gsu.edu (Douglas Goans) Date: Tue Apr 18 17:13:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: At Georgia State University Library we have used Captivate to create a multi-module tutorial on a database called PORT (Psychology Online Research Tutorial) and some other tutorials on SFX, off campus access, and Google Scholar. http://www.library.gsu.edu/tutorials/ We plan to do more things like this over time. IMO, the one feature that seems weakest in Captivate is the quizzing capabilities. It is possible to set up a section for review at the end of a tutorial but the means to control the navigation, presentation, and layout of the quiz features seem to have been built separately from the rest of the software. I found the quiz feature to be the most disappointing part of an otherwise intuitive interface for developing tutorials. -dg Doug Goans Web Development Librarian Georgia State University Library 100 Decatur St. Atlanta. GA 30303 Tel: (404) 651-0981 Fax: (404) 651-4315 From michael.whang at wmich.edu Tue Apr 18 17:14:21 2006 From: michael.whang at wmich.edu (Michael Whang) Date: Tue Apr 18 17:14:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: Tawnya, Here is a recent article that compares Camtasia, Captivate and Qarbon Viewlet Builder. I found the article very useful prior to downloading the free trials of all three packages since it includes a comparison matrix. This matrix lists various file formats that each program can save to as well as whether or not quizzes are SCORM compliant (ie. for incorporating into WebVista (aka latest version of WebCT), and other pros and cons. Here is the citation: NOTE: The article compares early versions of all three products (i.e. Camtasia is on version 3.1 and the article reviews version 2.1) ========= How We Used DEMONSTRATION AUTHORING SOFTWARE to Create Tutorials Holley Long; John Culshaw Computers in Libraries; Sep 2005; 25, 8; Research Library pg. 6 ========= I decided on Camtasia v. 3.1 because: Ease of Use ========= Library staff and faculty will need to use software that's fairly intuitive and easy to use. I've been a long time Macromedia customer; however, I never got used to the complexity of Macromedia Flash and Captivate looks and feels a lot like Flash. But to be fair, Captivate did win a few stars when it came to presentation and producing the final screencast. It could produce a nice, slick looking screencast right out of the box (comes with neat transitions etc). File Formats ========= Camtasia can save screencasts as quicktime movies, and if you ever wanted to stream your screencasts to distance learners, this is something to think about. Note, the quicktime format produces files much larger than flash files. Captivate may also produce very efficient file sizes as Ian Chan suggested. Qarbon Viewlet Builder ============== Now this is sort of a neat program because you have to manually take screen your captures by pressing a key on the keyboard or use the mouse. In my opinion, this would be great for any systems librarians who may need to create tutorials for staff, say, on using a new ILS client or learning how to use some feature of Groupwise's calendaring feature since you can easily, easily take screen captures of drop down menus and add any onscreen notes or instructions with great ease. The downside of Qarbon is that you have to buy Qarbon's ViewletCam that will enable you to capture movies of your screen or database interface. Viewlet builder is for screen captures. ViewletCam is for capturing screen movies. Qarbon's interface was also more intuitive to me than Captivate and even Camtasia, but this is personal preference. Downside of Camtasia =============== Supports only Windows. I ordered a Camtasia license and one seat is loaded onto a PC laptop. Creating screen captures on a laptop work fine. I use a pair of Logitech Premium USB Headset 350 and they are excellent. Michael Whang "Live as if you were to die tomorrow... Learn as if you were to live forever." Mahatma Gandhi ======================== Michael Whang Head, Web and Internet Services Western Michigan University Libraries 1903 W. Michigan Ave. Kalamazoo, MI 49008-5353 p: 269-387-5184 e: michael.whang@wmich.edu ========================= From michele.haytko at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 17:15:22 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Tue Apr 18 17:15:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Patron Media Message-ID: <15e475fa0604181415vf6e2fc6l89975b823fd3404e@mail.gmail.com> I apologize for the cross postings. Please take our survey on patron media (CDs, 3 1/2 floppies, flash drives, etc). This would greatly benefit me, as I am drafting a proposal on expanding our media policy. http://www.surveyshare.com/survey/take/?sid=37653 Thanks so much! Michele -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Tue Apr 18 17:27:32 2006 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Tue Apr 18 17:28:04 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting Message-ID: It sounds like the work of determining if the Library has access to an item before the link is displayed could and should be extended to provide such information as: The call number of a book, if the library has it.The link to a pre-filled ILL request form ONLY if the library does not have it.The exact location of the bound volume needed (enter RFID & GoogleMaps mashup)A GoogleMaps mashup of other libraries in the area who have the item (book or journal or otherwise)Link to Amazon.com to order the book IF the library doesn't have it I agree that our clients' experience with our link resolver suggests that when the link resolver's Web page appears, instead of article or even the journal Web site, the search is over. That page is, effectively, a dead-end. That is why we are seriously considering another link resolver which behaves slightly differently: if it cannot resolve the link to the article or issue level, it will send the user to the vendor's site. Even if they have to navigate the site to get to the article, we surmise that this would be considered more successful than seeing the "dead-end" page. True, the actual single-click-to-full-text success rate of the resolver under consideration is, indeed, better than the one we're using now; but I really think we would still consider them even if that rate was the same. The users' overall experience is better if they do not see that page. My conclusion then is, if we can let the user know the exact status of obtaining each citation at the exact point of need, their experience with the Library would improve. Which leads me to what I was originally going to ask Roy: more details (about their project), please.... Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "David Walker" 4/18/2006 2:48:51 PM >>> >> Encouraging this behavior would encourage the >> students to ignore anything that is not easily available I understand your concern here, Karen. I think libraries need to seek out opportunities to encourage students to look for the best resources, rather than just those that are easiest to get. That's important to good research. But I think Ross and Roy are entirely right here. Forcing users to click on a link resolver button for each search result just to determine that item's availability does little or nothing to encourage users to look for the most appropriate resources. It simply frustrates them. Likewise, we have to view each interaction with the library as an opportunity to win-over our users. If our systems are not easy-to-use, our users have an increasing number of other places they can go. We need to meet students where they are, and design metasearch and other systems to better meet their goals and behavior. Once we've got them hooked on using the library, we can, through instructional sessions and in reference encounters, encourage them to get beyond immediate full-text only. But it has to be a carrot rather than a stick. --Dave -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Karen Harker Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:43 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting However, using such visual cues as the appearance (or non-appearance) of the link resolver button/link could only further the reliance on full-text. Encouraging this behavior would encourage the students to ignore anything that is not easily available, causing them to miss a still rather large segment of literature and information. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> Roy Tennant 4/18/2006 1:24 PM >>> On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Dale Askey wrote: > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > problem is largely solved. I disagree strongly with this position. Slapping a link resolver button on each search result does little to help the user focus on only content that is available in full-text. Expecting the user to successively click on a link resolver button for each and every result, not knowing what they can expect, strikes me as particularly user-hostile. Realizing this, places like the University of Rochester, CSU San Marcos, and now soon us at the California Digital Library, are developing services that will do a lookup to the OpenURL resolver _before_ putting the search results up, so we can depict whether an item is available in full-text or not (with a link direct to the source). Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of good user service. Roy _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From popp at indiana.edu Tue Apr 18 17:48:00 2006 From: popp at indiana.edu (Popp, Mary Pagliero) Date: Tue Apr 18 17:48:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Reinvented Reference: The Integration of Digital and Traditional Reference Services Message-ID: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ABEC@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> Reinvented Reference: The Integration of Digital and Traditional Reference Services Friday, June 23, 2006 Hotel Intercontinental 8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. American Library Association Annual Conference, New Orleans What does your suite of reference services look like? Are you wrestling with issues related to integrating your digital and traditional services? Register now for Reinvented Reference and learn from colleagues around the country about the new environment for reference services and the tools you can use in your library to look at your reference services from an integrated, user-centered perspective. * What does your reference service package look like now? * How has your digital reference service been made a part of your reference service package? * How have you re-deployed staff and resources to accommodate new service models? * Have you evaluated your services and service delivery models in the context of changing user behaviors? * How has input from your users been applied in integrating your services? * How do you communicate with your users about your services, their value, and their effectiveness in meeting user needs? Presenters: Joe Janes, Associate Professor, Information School, University of Washington. Marie Radford, Associate Professor & Library Consultant, School of Communication, Information & Library Studies, Rutgers University. Jerilyn Veldof, Director of Undergraduate Initiatives, University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. Buff Hirko, Project Coordinator, Statewide Virtual Reference Project, Washington State Library. To register or for more information, go to: http://www.ala.org/ala/eventsandconferencesb/annual/2006a/registration.h tm Contact Eileen Hardy, ehardy@ala.org, if you have any questions. The preconference is presented by the Machine-Assisted Reference (MARS) a Section of the Reference and User Services Association, American Library Association, with support from OCLC QuestionPoint, Paratext, and Xrefer. We hope that you will join us for this exciting preconference! Mary ---------------------------------------------- Mary Pagliero Popp Public Services Librarian, Library Information Technology Chair, MARS Indiana University Libraries, Wells Library E456 1320 E. 10th Street Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-8170 FAX: 812-856-7949 popp@indiana.edu From lars at aronsson.se Tue Apr 18 18:14:58 2006 From: lars at aronsson.se (Lars Aronsson) Date: Tue Apr 18 18:15:04 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Where to find discography info Message-ID: When you google for something that you think is commonplace and find almost nothing, you have to think if maybe its 1996 again and nobody has written a webpage about this or that. Wake up! For book titles, publishers, writers, and translators, there are Open WorldCat and RedLightGreen in addition to catalog.loc.gov. For movie actors, directors and titles, there is IMDb.com. But where do you go for music information? I was under the impression that allmusic.com was going to become the IMDb.com for music, but the meager contents always disappoints me. How many songs and albums are in there, and how many should be? Does anybody have the numbers? And music.yahoo.com is just as bad. One recent example in my search history is reggae producer Joe Gibbs. Allmusic.com lists only three records produced by him. Maybe more albums are listed, but without label information. Wikipedia has a biography and lists 12 albums and 23 compilations, and this is still far from complete, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Gibbs_%28record_producer%29 Just look at how many of the links to artists are still red, indicating that no Wikipedia articles exist yet. If this man had printed books, I would be surprised if the LoC didn't catalog *every* title he put on the market. When I google for a group or a song from the 1970s and all I find is an occasional eBay auction, I know there are no fan pages, no Wikipedia entries. Is popular music inherently non-literal, the real fans don't write? Or is it libraries that don't "get" music? At e.g. http://www.lib.umn.edu/site/reference.phtml there is a heading for "reviews (book and film)", but who indexes reviews of music recordings? Is there a JSTOR for pop culture magazines? -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Tue Apr 18 19:02:17 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Tue Apr 18 19:02:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F4AB8A4-73D7-4D14-90DD-396CC1B95276@ucop.edu> On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:27 PM, Karen Harker wrote: > My conclusion then is, if we can let the user know the exact status > of obtaining each citation at the exact point of need, their > experience with the Library would improve. Bingo. > Which leads me to what I was originally going to ask Roy: more > details (about their project), please.... What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup before sending search results to the user interface. Since we haven't been able to get this to work yet, we are presently trying a work-around in which we send multiple requests. This is of course not optimal, but until we get a fix it will have to do. Luckily, our initial load should be relatively slight to begin with. I do not have anything publicly available to show yet, although we are getting close to an early alpha prototype. Roy From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Tue Apr 18 19:09:54 2006 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Tue Apr 18 19:09:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> Message-ID: <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> Howdy, folks, This is so basic I feel quite dumb for even asking, but anyway: I have been reading the HTML 4.0.1 specs in an effort to get my pages to validate. One of the things it says is that IMG ALIGN attributes are bottom, middle, top, left, right. Middle is a vertical attribute. So how does one center an image on a webpage horizontally? I have been blithely using "align=center" for years, which has always worked fine, but it's not valid. I don't want to center every image on all my webpages - do I have to add yet another class to my already innumerable CSS classes? Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From rcmason at rsproductions.net Tue Apr 18 19:34:55 2006 From: rcmason at rsproductions.net (Rick Mason) Date: Tue Apr 18 19:35:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> Message-ID: <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> Nope, it is not basic; don't feel dumb. Figuring that out was a bit of a headache for me when I first encountered it. The following, although based on CSS, passes the HTML 4.04 strict and transitional validation at http://validator.w3.org/ :
alt text
Hope this helps! Rick Lynne Puckett wrote: > Howdy, folks, > This is so basic I feel quite dumb for even asking, but anyway: > I have been reading the HTML 4.0.1 specs in an effort to get my pages > to validate. One of the things it says is that IMG ALIGN attributes > are bottom, middle, top, left, right. Middle is a vertical attribute. > So how does one center an image on a webpage horizontally? I have been > blithely using "align=center" for years, which has always worked fine, > but it's not valid. I don't want to center every image on all my > webpages - do I have to add yet another class to my already > innumerable CSS classes? > Lynne From Michelle.Conkas at dpi.qld.gov.au Tue Apr 18 19:42:46 2006 From: Michelle.Conkas at dpi.qld.gov.au (Conkas, Michelle) Date: Tue Apr 18 19:42:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: <200604182342.k3INglCP028225@dpi-gw1.dpi.qld.gov.au> I have used both Macromedia/Adobe Captivate in my current position and Qarbon ViewletBuilder in the past. I think Captivate has an advantage in the slickness/prettiness of the visuals, but ViewletBuilder had some advantages, particularly in the ability to change timing for captions globally (the default text reading time for Captivate is a little fast, so you have to change each timing bubble individually). ViewletBuilder was cheaper when we were investigating, though Macromedia/Adobe usually have good education pricing, which you may be eligible for. They both can automatically take screen shots on a mouse click, and you can press a key on the keyboard for extra shots. Captivate puts extra text bubbles in for you that labels links that you click on and introduces new pages as they load eg. "the library home page appears". ViewletBuilder seems to be a lot better at allowing you to customise your mouse cursors in a natural way (eg turning from the pointing hand to the text entry cursor in the appropriate spot) - I've had some trouble getting mouse cursors to look natural in Captivate. Captivate has a simulation mode that is good for getting the user to type in or click in the right area as if they were using the software themselves (though it looks like ViewletBuilder has this now in the most recent version). ViewletBuilder was better at allowing you to customise the HTML page settings that encase the resulting flash movie. Captivate is still on version 1, and has been for a while, so I expect there will be a version 2 out soon. I would recommend watching lots of the movies that are on the Macromedia/Adobe and Qarbon websites, to see how well the movies are made by their company staff. Also, because movies made with ViewletBuilder are called Viewlets, they are also easy to search for to see how other libraries use them: http://www.google.com/search?q=viewlets+library. It's a bit harder to find good library Captivate examples because of the name. They really are both very good products for doing things like database/software demos. If I had to choose between them I would probably suggest ViewletBuilder as it is cheaper and a little more intuitive (but I haven't used Captivate to the same depth yet, so I might not know all the tricks yet). They both offer full 30 day trials, so I would suggest you trial them both out with a couple of mini projects and see which suits you best. Cheers, Michelle -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tawnya Plumb Sent: Wednesday, 19 April 2006 3:25 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Hi all, Does anyone have experience using Macromedia Captivate (or RoboDemo) to create online database tutorials? What is your impression of the software? What other software would you consider for creating tutorials? Thanks for your input, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper Law Library College of Law, University of Wyoming tplumb@uwyo.edu 307.766.5733 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From rcmason at rsproductions.net Tue Apr 18 19:43:53 2006 From: rcmason at rsproductions.net (Rick Mason) Date: Tue Apr 18 19:43:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> Message-ID: <444579B9.1040607@rsproductions.net> Whoops... it would certainly be more meaningful for the code to pass HTML 4.01 validation, wouldn't it! And that is what I meant. Rick Rick Mason wrote: > Nope, it is not basic; don't feel dumb. Figuring that out was a bit > of a headache for me when I first encountered it. > > The following, although based on CSS, passes the HTML 4.04 strict and > transitional validation at http://validator.w3.org/ : > >
> alt text >
> > Hope this helps! > > Rick > > Lynne Puckett wrote: >> Howdy, folks, >> This is so basic I feel quite dumb for even asking, but anyway: >> I have been reading the HTML 4.0.1 specs in an effort to get my pages >> to validate. One of the things it says is that IMG ALIGN attributes >> are bottom, middle, top, left, right. Middle is a vertical attribute. >> So how does one center an image on a webpage horizontally? I have >> been blithely using "align=center" for years, which has always worked >> fine, but it's not valid. I don't want to center every image on all >> my webpages - do I have to add yet another class to my already >> innumerable CSS classes? >> Lynne > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From rch.library at rch.org.au Tue Apr 18 20:17:38 2006 From: rch.library at rch.org.au (lib) Date: Tue Apr 18 20:18:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20060419101738.00b91a30@mail.wch.org.au> hi Lynne, to get horizontal centering on an element, use: margin:0 auto; of course that won't work in IE, you will need to use text-align:center; on the element's container (and reset it to left on the element itself if necessary). http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/csslayout.html#centering v. At 05:09 PM 18/04/2006 -0600, you wrote: >Howdy, folks, >This is so basic I feel quite dumb for even asking, but anyway: >I have been reading the HTML 4.0.1 specs in an effort to get my pages to >validate. One of the things it says is that IMG ALIGN attributes are >bottom, middle, top, left, right. Middle is a vertical attribute. So how >does one center an image on a webpage horizontally? I have been blithely >using "align=center" for years, which has always worked fine, but it's >not valid. I don't want to center every image on all my webpages - do I >have to add yet another class to my already innumerable CSS classes? >Lynne >-- >L. E. Puckett >Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian >Parmly Billings Library >510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 >http://www.billings.lib.mt.us >Ph: 406-657-8258 > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From emorgan at nd.edu Tue Apr 18 20:36:01 2006 From: emorgan at nd.edu (Eric Lease Morgan) Date: Tue Apr 18 20:35:19 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] open source tools and xml Message-ID: <3D954CFA-484C-419D-9A7A-092620CAE45A@nd.edu> There will be a half-day tutorial on open source software and XML at the upcoming Joint Conference on Digital Libraries (JCDL), and I thought some people here might want to attend. JCDL has the reputation for being a quality conference, and Chapel Hill (North Carolina) is a nice place to visit. Title Tutorial 11: Exploiting open source tools to create, maintain, and disseminate XML content Abstract XML is quickly becoming the means of marking up data for the purposes of transmitting information from one computer to another. While XML can be created by hand, the process is tedious and not necessarily scalable. Software systems can address this problem, and this tutorial enumerates, describes, and demonstrates ways open source software can be used to create, maintain, and disseminate XML. The goal of this tutorial is to increase participants' knowledge of these tools and to demonstrate how to take advantage of them in everyday digital library work and software development. Target Audience Software engineers and librarians/intermediate Presenter Eric Lease Morgan is the Head of the Digital Access and Information Architecture Department at the University Libraries of Notre Dame. He considers himself to be a librarian first and a computer user second. His professional goal is to discover new ways to use computers to provide better library service. Some of his more well-known investigations and implementations include MyLibrary and the Alex Catalogue of Electronic Texts. An advocate for open source software and open access publishing, Morgan has been freely distributing his software and publications for years before the terms "open source" and "open access" were coined. Morgan also hosts his own Internet domain, infomotions.com. http://jcdl2006.org/program/afternoon-tutorials -- Eric Morgan University Libraries of Notre Dame From araby at unr.edu Tue Apr 18 20:39:25 2006 From: araby at unr.edu (Araby Y Greene) Date: Tue Apr 18 20:40:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question Message-ID: <7DFCFF4D7D728742B3EC03BB1216C48A01B3B00B@UNRX.unr.edu> You can use "margin: 0 auto;" with images in IE with an XHTML 4.01 Strict or XHTML doctype, if styled as a block element: display: block; margin: 0 auto; If you go to the trouble of using these css styles, may as well add the width, height, and border properties to the css: display: block; margin: 0 auto; width: 600px; height: 300px; border: none; -araby __________________________ Araby Greene Web Development Librarian Getchell Library/322 University of Nevada, Reno http://www.library.unr.edu/ araby@unr.edu 775.784.6500 x343 ???? /| ? \'o.O' ? =(___)= ??? U ACK! THPTPHH! > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib- > bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of lib > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:18 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] HTML question > > hi Lynne, > > to get horizontal centering on an element, use: > margin:0 auto; > > of course that won't work in IE, you will need to use text-align:center; > on > the element's container (and reset it to left on the element itself if > necessary). > > http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement > http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/csslayout.html#centering > > v. > > > > At 05:09 PM 18/04/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >Howdy, folks, > >This is so basic I feel quite dumb for even asking, but anyway: > >I have been reading the HTML 4.0.1 specs in an effort to get my pages to > >validate. One of the things it says is that IMG ALIGN attributes are > >bottom, middle, top, left, right. Middle is a vertical attribute. So how > >does one center an image on a webpage horizontally? I have been blithely > >using "align=center" for years, which has always worked fine, but it's > >not valid. I don't want to center every image on all my webpages - do I > >have to add yet another class to my already innumerable CSS classes? > >Lynne > >-- > >L. E. Puckett > >Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian > >Parmly Billings Library > >510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 > >http://www.billings.lib.mt.us > >Ph: 406-657-8258 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Web4lib mailing list > >Web4lib@webjunction.org > >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From robert at beiffert.net Tue Apr 18 21:41:39 2006 From: robert at beiffert.net (Robert Eiffert) Date: Tue Apr 18 21:29:20 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feed from email list In-Reply-To: References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> Message-ID: <44459553.7070009@beiffert.net> Several of the H-net lists are available as an RSS feed. I do moderating on the EdTech list and haven't seen problems or heard complaints with subscriptions Feeds list Hmmm, just discovered the spell check didn't know RSS.... Robert Eiffert Librarian, Pacific MS Vancouver WA pac.egreen.wednet.edu/library beiffert@egreen.wednet.edu Librarian in the Middle Blog: www.beiffert.net robert@beiffert.net >> >> >> >> Has anyone come up with a way to do an RSS feed from an email list, >> yet? >> I know you can get email updates of blogs, but I haven't seen a way to >> aggregate updates to email lists. >> >> -Margaret >> >> Margaret E. Hazel >> Principal Librarian, Technology >> Eugene Public Library >> Eugene, OR >> 541-682-6015 > > From david_funnell at yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 19 01:44:43 2006 From: david_funnell at yahoo.com.au (David Funnell) Date: Wed Apr 19 01:44:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication Message-ID: <20060419054443.33681.qmail@web34214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi I am interested in creating an open source PC self booking system. This would need to have the ability to authenticate patron barcode and passwords via sip. Is there anyone out there who can provide a sip connection and dummy barcode that I could use for development purposes? cheers David Funnell Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com From t.koch at ukoln.ac.uk Wed Apr 19 05:59:18 2006 From: t.koch at ukoln.ac.uk (Traugott Koch) Date: Wed Apr 19 05:59:24 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] CfP: 5th European NKOS WORKSHOP at ECDL 2006, September 21, Alicante, Spain Message-ID: <444609F6.80303@ukoln.ac.uk> Call for Presentations and Participation 5th European Networked Knowledge Organization Systems (NKOS) Workshop. ECDL 2006, 10th ECDL Conference, September 21, Alicante, Spain http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/nkos/nkos2006/ For the fifth time, an NKOS Workshop will be arranged as official workshop of the European Digital Library Conference. This time the workshop takes place on September 21st, as part of ECDL 2006 in Alicante, Spain (http://www.ecdl2006.org/). Proposals are invited for presentations (typically 20 minutes plus discussion time, potentially longer if the substance and importance warrant it) on work or projects related to the themes of the workshop (see below) or to NKOS more generally. The traditionally reflective style of the NKOS workshops allows plenty of time for discussion and features a briefing session for shorter communications and emergent topics. Please email proposals (approx. 1000 words including aims, methods, main findings) by May 11 to Traugott Koch (t.koch@ukoln.ac.uk). Advance indication that you intend to submit a presentation would be helpful. Proposals will be peer-reviewed by the program committee and notification of acceptance will be given by June 16. The early registration deadline for the conference and the workshop is July 15. After the workshop, copies of presentations will be made available on the workshop website. Presentations from the Workshop may be invited to be submitted as extended paper to the electronic peer reviewed journal: Journal of Digital Information, JoDI (http://jodi.tamu.edu). The workshop aims to address key challenges for KOS posed by the overlapping themes of * User-centred design issues * KOS Interoperability * KOS representations and service protocols * Terminology services * Social tagging However, other NKOS topics can also be proposed. For inspiration, visit the NKOS network website at: http://nkos.slis.kent.edu/ A significant feature of this NKOS workshop will be a special session highlighting Semantic Web applications of KOS in Digital Libraries. This builds on Semantic Web contacts established at previous NKOS workshops at ECDL and represents a convergence of semantic Digital Library efforts from the library world and Semantic Web communities. The session will focus on theoretical and practical issues involved in building next-generation Semantic Digital Libraries that provide machine support for end-users in their search for content and information. * Deployment of Semantic Web methods in support of Knowledge Organization systems and services Submissions for this "Semantic Web Special Session" are invited according to the same procedures and should please be marked as such. Further details see below. Main Contact: Traugott Koch UKOLN, University of Bath, Bath, UK, Phone: +44 1225 383218 Fax: +44 1225-386256 E-mail: t.koch@ukoln.ac.uk http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/ukoln/staff/t.koch/ Other organisers: Sebastian Ryszard Kruk DERI Galway, NUIG, Ireland Marianne Lykke Nielsen, Department of Information Studies, Royal School of Library and Information Science, Aalborg Branch, Aalborg, Denmark Douglas Tudhope, Hypermedia Research Unit, School of Computing, University of Glamorgan, Pontypridd, Wales, UK For full details visit the workshop website: http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/nkos/nkos2006/ Themes: Knowledge Organization Systems, such as classifications, gazetteers, lexical databases, ontologies, taxonomies and thesauri, attempt to model the underlying semantic structure of a domain. Modern digital information systems afford more options for mapping and presenting alternative orders of information than traditional physical libraries. The digital environment offers more possibilities of presenting information from different interests and discourses. Thus, the challenge is as much intellectual as technical when we want to develop knowledge organization systems that are useful and meaningful for the end-users operating in complex, interdisciplinary knowledge domains. The workshop would address the following general themes, although we will also remain open to emergent issues: * User-centred design issues: User-centred design strategies for KOS. How to develop understandable and thorough descriptions of concepts and terms? How to show and explain relationships? The challenge is to find the appropriate level of explanation, clarity and conciseness. Innovative visualisations of KOS content may assist - how to achieve these in networked situations? * KOS Interoperability: Cross-browsing and cross-searching between distributed KOS services, mapping between terms, classes and systems, mapping between KOS and ontologies. How to achieve semantic interoperability? * KOS representations and service protocols: A basic infrastructure is needed in order to achieve programmatic access to KOS services. We need to provide protocols for networked access to a variety of vocabularies for different end users and applications. These require standard representations in formats such as RDF/XML. What is the appropriate granularity of base services to apply in evolving Web/Grid environments? Why and how is the scalable and sustainable management of KOS mappings required? * Terminology services: We need to identify and specify terminology services for different applications, within a service-oriented approach/architecture, building on the basic infrastructure. * Social tagging: Participative user-based approaches to knowledge organization and cataloguing are emerging and attracting significant community support. What is the role of social tagging and informal knowledge structures versus established KOS? Semantic Web Special Session: With the development of the Resource Description Framework (RDF), OWL Web Ontology Language and Simple Knowledge Organization System (SKOS), the W3C Semantic Web Activity promotes the deployment of technologies for expressing, exchanging and processing metadata in a form processable by machines. The Dublin Core and related vocabularies of the Dublin Core Metadata Initiative (DCMI) represents a crucial contribution to this growing suite of standards. The goal of the special session is to support the deployment of Semantic Web methods in support of Knowledge Organization systems and services. The assumption underlying semantic digital libraries is that full-text search cannot be the entire solution for the massively expanding information space of emerging digital libraries. Next-generation digital library systems must also be able to handle well-defined metadata describing the stored contents and provide machine support for the end users in their search for content. One crucial first step is to organize bibliographic metadata for automated interpretation by machines. Major steps in this direction include: * Guidelines from the W3C Semantic Web Best Practice and Deployment Working Group. * The SKOS model for expressing mappings and existing concept structures such as thesauri, taxonomies and controlled vocabularies in a Semantic-Web-enabled form. * The Dublin Core Metadata Initiative, which provides specifications on expressing Semantic-Web-conformant metadata in syntax languages such as XML and RDF/XML. * Prototypical Semantic Digital Library systems such as SIMILE, JeromeDL, and BRICKS. * Social Networking, a technology for collaborative filtering based on community-aware annotations. * WordNet, which organizes the vocabulary of the English language into synonym sets which are processable by machines for disambiguation. Authors are encouraged to submit workshop contributions on these and other related topics, such as: * Architecture and design of Semantic Digital Libraries * Case studies and application scenarios * Peer-to-peer solutions for interconnecting Semantic Digital Libraries * Enhanced semantic-aware search, browsing and retrieval functionalities * Integration of existing metadata into a Semantic Digital Library * Enabling ontologies, thesauri, and other controlled vocabularies for the Semantic Web Program committee: Hanne Albrechtsen, The Institute of Knowledge Sharing, Denmark Thomas Baker, SUB - Goettingen State and University Library, Germany Ron Davies, Information Consultant, Brussels, Belgium Ian Davis, Talis, Birmingham, UK Stefan Decker, Digital Enterprise Research Institute, National University of Ireland, Galway, Ireland Lois Delcambre, Computer Science Department, Portland State University, USA Stella Dextre Clarke, Luke House, Wantage, UK Martin Doerr, Institute of Computer Science, Foundation for Research and Technology (FORTH), Greece Bernhard Haslhofer, ARC Seibersdorf Research, Studio Digital Memory Engineering, Austria Carlo Meghini, Istituto di Scienza e Tecnologie dell'Informazione, Pisa, Italy Eva Mendez, Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Spain Alistair Miles, CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, UK Libby Miller, W3C, Bristol, UK Erich Neuhold, Fraunhofer IPSI, Darmstadt, Germany Axel Polleres, Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, Madrid, Spain Dagobert Soergel, University of Maryland, USA Diane Vizine-Goetz, OCLC Research, USA Marcia Zeng, Kent State Univ, USA -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | TRAUGOTT KOCH, Research Officer. Research and Development, | UKOLN, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK | Tel: +44 1225 383218 | E-mail: T.Koch@ukoln.ac.uk | Homepage: http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/ukoln/staff/t.koch/ +-------------------------------------------------------------+ From maurice.york at emory.edu Wed Apr 19 09:43:45 2006 From: maurice.york at emory.edu (Maurice York) Date: Wed Apr 19 09:43:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication In-Reply-To: <20060419054443.33681.qmail@web34214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060419054443.33681.qmail@web34214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3c95db40604190643n49fbcae6od90e7df691e957d7@mail.gmail.com> Hi David, Do you have a specific reason for wanting to use SIP (I suppose you mean SIP2, since SIP is fairly dated)? If you are going to build an open source app, have you looked at using NCIP instead? SIP is a proprietary protocol, whereas NCIP is an xml-based NISO standard ( http://www.niso.org/committees/committee_at.html). It might be more appropriate for an open source app, especially given licensing issues (though I must admit I haven't looked at what the licensing issues might be with using SIP or SIP2 for this purpose). -Maurice -- ************************************ Maurice York Team Leader, Circulation and Reserves Woodruff Library Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 mcyork@emory.edu On 4/19/06, David Funnell wrote: > > Hi > > I am interested in creating an open source PC self booking system. This > would need to have the ability to authenticate patron barcode and passwords > via sip. > > Is there anyone out there who can provide a sip connection and dummy > barcode that I could use for development purposes? > > cheers > David Funnell > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From info at r020.com.ar Wed Apr 19 07:32:06 2006 From: info at r020.com.ar (info@r020.com.ar) Date: Wed Apr 19 10:26:39 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] TemaTres: open source thesaurus managemen In-Reply-To: <444609F6.80303@ukoln.ac.uk> References: <444609F6.80303@ukoln.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200604190832.07042.info@r020.com.ar> I send for evaluation this web aplication to manage documentation languages - especially good at hierarchical thesauri and cataloging vocabularies but also useful for navigation structures Features TemaTres 0.9.2 supports folowing features: ? ? * Relationship between terms ? ? ? ? ? o Equivalence: (UF) ? ? ? ? ? o Hierarchical: (NT / BT) ? ? ? ? ? o Related (RT) ? ? * Systematic or alphabetic navigation ? ? * Search ? ? * Complete printing in XML format (Zthes) ? ? * Scope notes, Historical and Bibliographical notes ? ? * Output in ? ? ? ? ? o Dublin Core ? ? ? ? ? o SKOS-Core ? ? ? ? ? o Zthes ? ? * User management ? ? * Multilingual interface: ? ? ? ? ? o english ? ? ? ? ? o spanish ? ? ? ? ? o portugues o Deutch URL: http://www.r020.com.ar/tematres/index.en.html ________________________________________________ diego ferreyra R020 Bibliotecolog?a y Ciencias de la informaci?n = Library & information Science http://www.r020.com.ar From markrcosta at gmail.com Wed Apr 19 10:41:08 2006 From: markrcosta at gmail.com (Mark Costa) Date: Wed Apr 19 10:41:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds Message-ID: Good morning. I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds from your website. All of my Internet searches have turned up services that host the script on their server (i.e. - http://www.feedroll.com/rssviewer/). Unfortunately this is not acceptable for us; we need to host all the script on our server. Does anyone know of a site that provides free javascript code for RSS feeds? Like I said, I have had no luck. Many thanks, Mark C -- Mr. Mark R. Costa, MLS Librarian U.S. Army War College Library, Reference and Information Services 122 Forbes Avenue Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013-5220 717.245.4260 / 717.245.3323 (fax) From jbodfish at fdusa.com Wed Apr 19 10:49:08 2006 From: jbodfish at fdusa.com (John Bodfish) Date: Wed Apr 19 10:49:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication In-Reply-To: <3c95db40604190643n49fbcae6od90e7df691e957d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001001c663c0$6a2491d0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> David: Maurice York wrote: "If you are going to build an open source app, have you looked at using NCIP instead?" I second the suggestion of NCIP, and for more recent information on the standard and its implementation see http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/ (The State Library of Colorado is the Maintenance Agency for the NCIP standard.) The Implementation Group's web page is here: http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/NCIP-IG.htm. Here's a link to the group's "Roadmap to NCIP" document which is the best place to begin learning the standard: http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/download/pdf/RoadmapToNCIP_DraftSept82005.pd f. (That version is a draft which is soon to be updated. Its information is correct but there a three missing sections that I'm about to merge in.) John Bodfish Fretwell-Downing Inc. From mgfarkas at gmail.com Wed Apr 19 11:04:10 2006 From: mgfarkas at gmail.com (Meredith Farkas) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:04:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, With Feed2JS (http://jade.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/feed/) they give you the code to run it on your own server. See this page http://jade.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/feed/index.php?s=download. That's what I use at work to syndicate our blog content within WebCT, and it works beautifully. Meredith On 4/19/06, Mark Costa wrote: > > Good morning. > > I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds > from your website. All of my Internet searches have turned up services > that > host the script on their server (i.e. - http://www.feedroll.com/rssviewer/ > ). > Unfortunately this is not acceptable for us; we need to host all the > script > on our server. Does anyone know of a site that provides free javascript > code > for RSS feeds? Like I said, I have had no luck. > > Many thanks, > > Mark C > > -- > Mr. Mark R. Costa, MLS > Librarian > U.S. Army War College > Library, Reference and Information Services > 122 Forbes Avenue > Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013-5220 > 717.245.4260 / 717.245.3323 (fax) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Meredith Gorran Farkas http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/ From EKINNE at state.wy.us Wed Apr 19 11:08:26 2006 From: EKINNE at state.wy.us (Erin Kinney) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:08:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4445FE0A020000D9000014D0@missc2.state.wy.us> We use Feed2js http://jade.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/feed/ here at the Wyoming State Library. Erin _________________________ Erin Kinney, Digital Initiatives Librarian Wyoming State Library Cheyenne, WY 82002 Email: ekinne@state.wy.us Phone: (307) 777-6332 http://will.state.wy.us/ http://gowyld.net/ http://wyonewspapers.org/ http://wyominglibraries.org/ _________________________ >>> "Mark Costa" 04/19/06 8:41 AM >>> Good morning. I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds from your website. All of my Internet searches have turned up services that host the script on their server (i.e. - http://www.feedroll.com/rssviewer/). Unfortunately this is not acceptable for us; we need to host all the script on our server. Does anyone know of a site that provides free javascript code for RSS feeds? Like I said, I have had no luck. Many thanks, Mark C -- Mr. Mark R. Costa, MLS Librarian U.S. Army War College Library, Reference and Information Services 122 Forbes Avenue Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013-5220 717.245.4260 / 717.245.3323 (fax) _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jtgorman at uiuc.edu Wed Apr 19 11:15:13 2006 From: jtgorman at uiuc.edu (Jonathan Gorman) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:15:16 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds > from your website. This might be possible, but I must admit a bit of skepticism. If you're talking about creating a feed, JavaScript's a poor choice. After all, a feed is a seperate xml document. You would need to be able to change the headers to reflect this. Or are you talking about incorporating a RSS feed (ie a JavaScript RSS Reader) into a website? In that case, AJAX (JavaScript-based) would be one way to do it, but probably painful due to some of RSS's quirks. My guess is the various "JavaScript" services actually don't use JavaScript for the parsing of the information. Rather, they have scripts running that take in the RSS feed and create some JavaScript that inserts the process text. It then returns that whenever the url is requested. One could have the scripts returning html or formatted pages as well. I believe that is how services like Feed2JS work http://jade.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/feed/. (PHP-based I believe. Last I checked they offered a version for download). Some other script based solutions: Magpie http://magpierss.sourceforge.net/, rss2html.php (saw some references to it, probably a couple of php scripts out there with the same name), and FeedRollPro (saw references, not sure how useful). Jonathan T. Gorman Visiting Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana 216 Main Library - MC522 1408 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 244-4688 From erica.defrain at law.arizona.edu Wed Apr 19 11:22:22 2006 From: erica.defrain at law.arizona.edu (Erica DeFrain) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:24:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds Message-ID: <23BA0C0672598744AEA9709676791023C73236@lawsrvr.law.arizona.edu> One recommendation about using the Feed2JS site to create your scripts: make sure to run them using one of the mirrored sites or else you risk really slowing down the load time of your pages. If you do use a mirror site, however, there's always the risk that it will disappear unannounced, as happened to me. Erica -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gorman Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:15 AM Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] RSS feeds > I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds > from your website. From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Wed Apr 19 11:46:52 2006 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:46:55 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> Message-ID: <44465B6C.6080106@billings.lib.mt.us> Rick Mason wrote: > Nope, it is not basic; don't feel dumb. Figuring that out was a bit of > a headache for me when I first encountered it. > > The following, although based on CSS, passes the HTML 4.04 strict and > transitional validation at http://validator.w3.org/ : > >
> alt text >
> > Hope this helps! > > Rick Dear Rick, Thank you for the idea, but it's not quite right for my situation. Check out http://www.billings.lib.mt.us/kids.html The dog-image is supposed to be centered. I used style margins, but that only works if a) I get the number of pixels correct and b) everybody who looks at it has the same screen resolution I do. If I put the image in a separate div, that messes up the text flow. The div it's already in has to float left to fit the layout. I have been suffering from this delusion that CSS was supposed to make layout easier, so why is a simple image-centering so difficult? I do appreciate your suggestion, but it's just like the old days of centering a paragraph in order to center a table or image inside the paragraph, and I thought that was supposed to go away. Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From JBloy at edgewood.edu Wed Apr 19 11:47:03 2006 From: JBloy at edgewood.edu (Jonathan Bloy) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:47:11 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReview limiting Message-ID: On April 18, 2006 4:28 PM, Karen Harker wrote: >My conclusion then is, if we can let the user know the exact >status of obtaining each citation at the exact point of >need, their experience with the Library would improve. > >>> "David Walker" 4/18/2006 2:48:51 PM >>> >>Forcing users to click on a link resolver button for each search >>result just to determine that item's availability does little >>or nothing to encourage users to look for the most appropriate >>resources. It simply frustrates them. Thanks for your input folks. This is certainly a lively discussion. I agree with a lot of the points that have been made. We've got some federated search product demos coming to our library in the next month or so. If we come up with any profound conclusions, I'll be sure and pass them on to the list. -- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu From araby at unr.edu Wed Apr 19 11:59:36 2006 From: araby at unr.edu (Araby Y Greene) Date: Wed Apr 19 12:09:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question Message-ID: <7DFCFF4D7D728742B3EC03BB1216C48A01B3B1DF@UNRX.unr.edu> This displayed centered in IE6 and Firefox, with your doctype: Summer Reading Registration starts 5 June! -araby __________________________ Araby Greene Web Development Librarian Getchell Library/322 University of Nevada, Reno http://www.library.unr.edu/ araby@unr.edu 775.784.6500 x343 ???? /| ? \'o.O' ? =(___)= ??? U ACK! THPTPHH! > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib- > bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lynne Puckett > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:47 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] HTML question > > Rick Mason wrote: > > Nope, it is not basic; don't feel dumb. Figuring that out was a bit of > > a headache for me when I first encountered it. > > > > The following, although based on CSS, passes the HTML 4.04 strict and > > transitional validation at http://validator.w3.org/ : > > > >
> > alt text > >
> > > > Hope this helps! > > > > Rick > Dear Rick, > Thank you for the idea, but it's not quite right for my situation. > Check out http://www.billings.lib.mt.us/kids.html > The dog-image is supposed to be centered. I used style margins, but that > only works if a) I get the number of pixels correct and b) everybody who > looks at it has the same screen resolution I do. If I put the image in a > separate div, that messes up the text flow. The div it's already in has > to float left to fit the layout. I have been suffering from this > delusion that CSS was supposed to make layout easier, so why is a simple > image-centering so difficult? > I do appreciate your suggestion, but it's just like the old days of > centering a paragraph in order to center a table or image inside the > paragraph, and I thought that was supposed to go away. > > Lynne > -- > L. E. Puckett > Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian > Parmly Billings Library > 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 > http://www.billings.lib.mt.us > Ph: 406-657-8258 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Wed Apr 19 12:01:17 2006 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Wed Apr 19 12:09:11 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20060419101738.00b91a30@mail.wch.org.au> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <3.0.6.32.20060419101738.00b91a30@mail.wch.org.au> Message-ID: <44465ECD.8040208@billings.lib.mt.us> lib wrote: > hi Lynne, > > to get horizontal centering on an element, use: > margin:0 auto; > > of course that won't work in IE, you will need to use text-align:center; on > the element's container (and reset it to left on the element itself if > necessary). > > http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement > http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/csslayout.html#centering > > v. > Thanks, V! I'll be learning from both those links. I still have my problem, though - I don't want to center the div, JUST the image - it's inside the div with the content already. Looks like another CSS class to my list coming up. See http://www.billings.lib.mt.us/kids.html to see what I'm trying to do. That one's done with style margins, and it's only actually centered in some browsers. I'm trying to do the impossible, I suppose. Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Apr 19 12:08:39 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed Apr 19 12:18:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <44465B6C.6080106@billings.lib.mt.us> References: <00be01c66310$65117fb0$2600005a@webmaster> <444571C2.7050409@billings.lib.mt.us> <4445779F.6040409@rsproductions.net> <44465B6C.6080106@billings.lib.mt.us> Message-ID: <44466087.6080807@ohiolink.edu> You're working too hard at this. CSS does not require you to count pixels, and you only have to figure out margin stuff if you're trying to locate one block element within another, not if you're trying to align the contents of a block element. There's more than one way to do this, but here's a simple solution. Problem #1 here is that is an inline element, and there are a number of CSS properties that only apply to block elements, including horizontal alignment. So you need to stick the image inside a block element--

or

, for example. Once you've done that, center the inline contents of the block element (somewhat misleadingly for your purposes, the directive is called "text-align"):

Summer Reading Registration starts 5 June!

for quick definitions of block and inline elements. Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu On 4/19/2006 11:46 AM, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Check out http://www.billings.lib.mt.us/kids.html > The dog-image is supposed to be centered. I used style margins, but that > only works if a) I get the number of pixels correct and b) everybody who > looks at it has the same screen resolution I do. If I put the image in a > separate div, that messes up the text flow. The div it's already in has > to float left to fit the layout. I have been suffering from this > delusion that CSS was supposed to make layout easier, so why is a simple > image-centering so difficult? > I do appreciate your suggestion, but it's just like the old days of > centering a paragraph in order to center a table or image inside the > paragraph, and I thought that was supposed to go away. > > Lynne From TPlumb at uwyo.edu Wed Apr 19 12:21:35 2006 From: TPlumb at uwyo.edu (Tawnya Plumb) Date: Wed Apr 19 12:23:45 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Macromedia Captivate (formerly RoboDemo) Message-ID: Hello friends, Thank you for all your comments on Macromedia Captivate. I appreciate all the leads, reviews, and suggestions for alternative software. Librarians rock! Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper Law Library College of Law, University of Wyoming tplumb@uwyo.edu From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Wed Apr 19 13:09:20 2006 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Wed Apr 19 13:09:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <7DFCFF4D7D728742B3EC03BB1216C48A01B3B1DF@UNRX.unr.edu> References: <7DFCFF4D7D728742B3EC03BB1216C48A01B3B1DF@UNRX.unr.edu> Message-ID: <44466EC0.405@billings.lib.mt.us> Araby Y Greene wrote: > This displayed centered in IE6 and Firefox, with your doctype: > > Summer Reading Registration starts 5 June! > > -araby > > __________________________ > Araby Greene Araby - Oh, wow! now I see what you meant! Thanks! I can do that...nothing like a clue to illuminate the blank mind. Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From jtgorman at uiuc.edu Wed Apr 19 13:47:33 2006 From: jtgorman at uiuc.edu (Jonathan Gorman) Date: Wed Apr 19 13:47:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HTML question In-Reply-To: <44466EC0.405@billings.lib.mt.us> References: <7DFCFF4D7D728742B3EC03BB1216C48A01B3B1DF@UNRX.unr.edu> <44466EC0.405@billings.lib.mt.us> Message-ID: Hi Lynne, Just wanted to make a few quick comments about this entire thread. > do I have to add yet another class to my already innumerable CSS classes? This here is a warning sign to me that you're not using CSS in a way that's entirely efficient. A quick glance at the page you post later down in the line confirms this. I don't have time right now to try to offer any detailed suggestions, but some general pointers. 1) Remember CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets. This means two things. First, multiple rules can be applied to one element. For example: p {font-weight:bold} .cool {color: green} will turn

  • Hello

    • bold. Setting a font family to the body element means that font will be used all the way down the tree. 2) Try to come up with semantic names for things. It looks like right now you're taking one effect and making a class out of it, ie you'd do .red {color: red}. There's a drawback to this approach. Imagine we decide there are warnings (we'll be closed on a particular day) and also rules (can't run with pointy things). We have several webpages and we mark both of these class red. Now administration decides to be less imposing all rules should be in green. You now need to modify the html by hand. If you had done the classes warning and rule, you could just change: warning {color:red} rule {color: red} to warning {color:red} rule {color:green} This is one of the largest advantages to CSS. Typically to you'll find if you can identify semantic names there ends up being fewer classes overall. 3) Make sure you're applying the rules to the right place. Instead of having every element in a div be something like class left, just make the parent left. 4) One great advantage to having classes with semantic meaning is that it allows for better JavaScript. It's difficult to demonstrate this, but say you had a quiz. Questions could be in a class "quest" and answers in "answ". You then just go over the elements and manipulate any with the right className. > I have been suffering from this delusion that CSS was supposed to > make layout easier, so why is a simple image-centering so difficult? Layout is actually considered a difficult and tricky part to CSS. Part of the problem is the standard is a bit vague in places and tricky to follow. It also wasn't implemented before it was finalized. The other part is of course IE doesn't follow some of the actual rules very well, leading to layout nightmares. However, the advantages of a good layout with CSS far outweigh any problems. Sorry for going on long here, just glad to see someone else moving towards better html practices. Hopefully I'll get some time to look closer at your pages and make specific recommendations Jonathan T. Gorman Visiting Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana 216 Main Library - MC522 1408 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 244-4688 On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Araby Y Greene wrote: >> This displayed centered in IE6 and Firefox, with your doctype: >> >> > alt="Summer Reading Registration starts 5 June!" title="Summer Reading >> Registration starts 5 June!" src="dogcolor3.jpg"> >> >> -araby >> >> __________________________ >> Araby Greene > Araby - > Oh, wow! now I see what you meant! Thanks! > I can do that...nothing like a clue to illuminate the blank mind. > Lynne > -- > L. E. Puckett > Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian > Parmly Billings Library > 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 > http://www.billings.lib.mt.us > Ph: 406-657-8258 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From julie.nye at fdusa.com Wed Apr 19 14:29:20 2006 From: julie.nye at fdusa.com (Julie Blume Nye) Date: Wed Apr 19 14:29:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Reviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <44451955.1040506@ksu.edu> Message-ID: <016201c663df$2db43740$0400a8c0@BOWIE> > one of the core weaknesses of > federated searching, i.e.- it can't do a better job than (or even as > good of a job as) any given database's native interface. Unless the Not necessarily true -- if the targets don't support a feature, the federated search software may be able to implement it on the client side. For example, Fretwell Downing's ZPORTAL limits to peer reviewed journals by comparing results received from each database against a 'master' list of peer-reviewed journals. (The comparison is on ISSN, not journal title.) This allows the peer reviewed limit to applied to results from many more databases since most databases include ISSNs in their results, while relatively few support peer-reviewed limiting at present. Either Openly.Informatics' UHF data or Bowker's Ulrich's dataset can be used as the master list of peer-reviewed journals. This is also the approach ZPORTAL has taken for other features that many targets don't support (or don't support in comparable ways) -- e.g. date limiting. --------------------------------------- Julie Blume Nye Senior Product Designer -- Fretwell-Downing, Inc. 407 River Trace Dr. Rougemont, NC 27572 Phone: 336-364-2607 Fax: 336-364-4224 E-mail: mailto:julie.nye@fdusa.com Website: www.fdusa.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DISCLAIMER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The information transmitted in this electronic mail message may contain confidential and or privileged materials. For full details and restrictions see http://www.fdgroup.com/emaildisclaimer.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale Askey [mailto:daskey@ksu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:53 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full > Text/Peer Reviewlimiting > > Jonathan, > > I think your question gets at the heart of one of the core > weaknesses of > federated searching, i.e.- it can't do a better job than (or even as > good of a job as) any given database's native interface. Unless the > native interface allows limiting to full text or > peer-reviewed articles, > there's at best dim hope that you could get the former to work, and > practically none for the latter. Now I know a few of you > highly-skilled > programmer types are just looking to prove me wrong, and for a few > limited database targets you might succeed, but let's be > realistic. With > a remotely-hosted service, you're never going to have such > control over > the search behavior, and with locally-hosted, you'd need some > very, very > talented folk (read: large budget or blind luck) to get a fed search > engine to do this. It may have less to do with the technical aspects, > frankly, and more to do with the potpourri of data that the > targets return. > > Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text > results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that > problem is largely solved. > > Dale > > > > quoted message: > > Our library is considering adding a federated search product, > and we've > got a question for those of you now using them. > > In your experience, have Federated Search programs been able > to reliably > limit to Full Text and/or Peer Reviewed articles? We're especially > interested in those programs that are hosted remotely rather than > locally. > > > -- > Dale Askey > Web Development Librarian > KSU Libraries > 118 Hale Library > Manhattan, KS 66506 > (785) 532-7672 > > From dfiander at uwo.ca Wed Apr 19 15:00:05 2006 From: dfiander at uwo.ca (David J. Fiander) Date: Wed Apr 19 15:01:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication In-Reply-To: <001001c663c0$6a2491d0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> References: <001001c663c0$6a2491d0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> Message-ID: <444688B5.2060007@uwo.ca> John Bodfish wrote: > I second the suggestion of NCIP, and for more recent information on the > standard and its implementation see http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/ (The > State Library of Colorado is the Maintenance Agency for the NCIP standard.) John, I'm glad to hear that there are finally NCIP server products available for David to connect his self-service booking client to. Could you point me to them, since I know of some other institutions that continue to think that products aren't going to be available for several more months at least. - David From Ryan.Wick at oregonstate.edu Wed Apr 19 15:21:49 2006 From: Ryan.Wick at oregonstate.edu (Wick, Ryan) Date: Wed Apr 19 15:21:52 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: Where to find discography info (Lars Aronsson) Message-ID: Two other sites to try for release information and discographies. http://discogs.com - http://reggae.discogs.com/artist/Joe+Gibbs http://freedb.org Admittedly freedb doesn't have much past usual ID3 tag metadata, so it wouldn't mention producer. Ryan Wick Information Technology Consultant Special Collections - OSU Libraries Oregon State University From jbodfish at fdusa.com Wed Apr 19 16:31:11 2006 From: jbodfish at fdusa.com (John Bodfish) Date: Wed Apr 19 16:31:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication In-Reply-To: <444688B5.2060007@uwo.ca> Message-ID: <003101c663f0$328f49b0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> David: The implementation group is assembling a report on the status of its member's implementations and it should be posted on the NCIP-IG list soon; I'll let this list know when it's been posted. (I'd rather not answer based on my own knowledge as my interest is in the NCIP Application Areas of Circ/ILL and Direct Consortial Borrowing, rather than Patron Self-Service. Therefore I'd likely give an incomplete answer that might slight one or another vendor.) John -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of David J. Fiander Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:00 PM To: 'Web4Lib' Subject: Re: [Web4lib] sip authentication John Bodfish wrote: > I second the suggestion of NCIP, and for more recent information on the > standard and its implementation see http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/ (The > State Library of Colorado is the Maintenance Agency for the NCIP standard.) John, I'm glad to hear that there are finally NCIP server products available for David to connect his self-service booking client to. Could you point me to them, since I know of some other institutions that continue to think that products aren't going to be available for several more months at least. - David _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From dmattison at shaw.ca Thu Apr 20 01:34:44 2006 From: dmattison at shaw.ca (DH MATTISON) Date: Thu Apr 20 01:35:19 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: [DIGLIB] Social Software Web Sites Project Message-ID: <7f9eebf7fa18fc.7fa18fc7f9eebf@shaw.ca> And taking a page from Barbara Blummer's post, I cloned Library Reviews and created the Archives Reviews site on Ning at http://archivesreviews.ning.com. Feel free to register and contribute. David Mattison dmattison@shaw.ca http://www.davidmattison.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Blummer Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:28 am Subject: [DIGLIB] Social Software Web Sites Project > Please excuse the cross postings. > > To evaluate the usefulness of social software web sites to > libraries, I > created an account on Ning and on Google Groups titled "Library > Reviews." These sites discuss the content and services available > on > various public, academic and special library web sites. They are > open to > the public for comments. I would appreciate any comments from my > colleagues on "Library Reviews" in Ning or Google Groups (or > both). > Please respond to the site and not through email. > Thanks! > Barbara Blummer > Librarian > Center for Computing Sciences > > Ning http://libraryreviews.ning.com/ > Google Groups > http://groups.google.com/group/Library- > Reviews/browse_thread/thread/e4d92c9c9706bcb8?hl=en From markrcosta at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 10:46:17 2006 From: markrcosta at gmail.com (Mark Costa) Date: Thu Apr 20 10:46:20 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds In-Reply-To: <23BA0C0672598744AEA9709676791023C73236@lawsrvr.law.arizona.edu> References: <23BA0C0672598744AEA9709676791023C73236@lawsrvr.law.arizona.edu> Message-ID: I just wanted to thank everyone for their input. I got some great suggestions, although much to my dismay, it seems that I will need some type of server side scripting in order to do this effectively. Many thanks mark costa On 4/19/06, Erica DeFrain wrote: > > One recommendation about using the Feed2JS site to create your scripts: > make sure to run them using one of the mirrored sites or else you risk > really slowing down the load time of your pages. If you do use a mirror > site, however, there's always the risk that it will disappear > unannounced, as happened to me. > > Erica > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gorman > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:15 AM > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] RSS feeds > > > > I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS > feeds > > from your website. > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Mark R. Costa, MLS Librarian U.S. Army War College Library, Reference and Information Services 122 Forbes Avenue Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013-5220 717.245.4260 / 717.245.3323 (fax) "What is possible is not independent of what we believe to be possible. The possibility of such developments in the practical world depends upon their being grasped imaginatively by the people who make the practical world work" -Neil MacCormick From gambrellcb at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 10:50:05 2006 From: gambrellcb at gmail.com (Charles Gambrell) Date: Thu Apr 20 10:49:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? Thanks for any help you can give. From CAGimon at mplib.org Thu Apr 20 11:00:27 2006 From: CAGimon at mplib.org (Gimon, Charles A) Date: Thu Apr 20 11:01:02 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages Message-ID: <7004EEA23644D84183003AE7B2A53EC301C1F6AF@alpha.mpls.lib.mn.us> Print style sheets -- they're great! List two style sheets, one with media=screen, the other with media=print, like so: It does help if your original markup is more semantic/structural and less "presentational". You can also make use of display: none; to rid printed pages of a variety of visual cruft. --Charles Gimon Web Coordinator Minneapolis Public Library -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Charles Gambrell Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:50 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? Thanks for any help you can give. _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From michele.haytko at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 11:01:09 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Thu Apr 20 11:01:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> Message-ID: <15e475fa0604200801u2018833dw6012a5c7eb705c9b@mail.gmail.com> If it is as framed website, then click in the frame and select "print only current frame". If it isnt framed, the easiest thing, I've found, is to adjust all the margins to .25. It's a pain, but it is the only measure I've found to consistently work. You could always change the page setup to Landscape, but that usually results in additional pages (i.e. what is 3 portraits is 5 landscapes). We have the same problems. ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Thu Apr 20 11:01:05 2006 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Thu Apr 20 11:03:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds and iBistro Message-ID: <44804.66.100.26.82.1145545265.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> I know that SirsiDynix is incorporating RSS feeds into their Enterprise Portal product. However, I was wondering if any coders out there have already managed to hack together feeds using content from iBistro? If you have, can you drop me a line or point me to examples if you've seen them in the real world? Thanks! Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI From bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us Thu Apr 20 11:04:20 2006 From: bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us (Bill Teschek) Date: Thu Apr 20 11:07:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> Message-ID: <44476AB4.2567.16487A21@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> First look for a "Printable View" (or some similar) button on the web page. If there is none, try using the cursor to select the items you want to print and then check the "Selection" button in the print dialog box to print just what you had selected. If neither of these works, and the on screen display all fits on one screen, you might try installing a utility such as PrimoPDF that will allow you to print to a pdf file, which you can then open in Adobe and print from there. Bill Teschek bteschek@hampton.lib.nh.us Charles Gambrell wrote: > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our > customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? > > Thanks for any help you can give. > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From maurice.york at emory.edu Thu Apr 20 11:15:07 2006 From: maurice.york at emory.edu (Maurice York) Date: Thu Apr 20 11:15:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication In-Reply-To: <003101c663f0$328f49b0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> References: <444688B5.2060007@uwo.ca> <003101c663f0$328f49b0$6601a8c0@JBLaptop> Message-ID: <3c95db40604200815k6c081550p7168420cde4fd413@mail.gmail.com> I'm not certain about a full list of vendors who support NCIP either, but I can say that several major ILS vendors have functioning NCIP servers. I haven't yet seen one who has implemented the fulll protocol , but I know of several who have partial implementations of the basic/essential functions. The list in my head includes ILS vendors with servers as well as a number of third-party vendors who have built clients, including some vendors of PC-reservation systems as well as print management. Without any attempt at giving a complete list, and meaning no slight to anyone, SirsiDynix and Endeavor both have NCIP servers, and SirsiDynix has an NCIP Partner certification program (similar to their SIP2 certification program) that has several third-party vendors with clients listed (just Google "NCIP library vendors"). Some companies who shall remain nameless have predicted the death of NCIP and the impossibility of it ever being adopted, but the existence of several live implementations in both academic and public libraries I think puts that statement in doubt. NCIP is also one of the top technologies for the VIEWS consortium of vendors interested in promoting new web services and technologies (http://www.views-consortia.org/), which just got its start (last year?) and seems to be moving on increasing momentum (slowly but surely). -Maurice On 4/19/06, John Bodfish wrote: > > David: > > The implementation group is assembling a report on the status of its > member's implementations and it should be posted on the NCIP-IG list soon; > I'll let this list know when it's been posted. > > (I'd rather not answer based on my own knowledge as my interest is in the > NCIP Application Areas of Circ/ILL and Direct Consortial Borrowing, rather > than Patron Self-Service. Therefore I'd likely give an incomplete answer > that might slight one or another vendor.) > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of David J. Fiander > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:00 PM > To: 'Web4Lib' > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] sip authentication > > John Bodfish wrote: > > > I second the suggestion of NCIP, and for more recent information on the > > standard and its implementation see http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/(The > > State Library of Colorado is the Maintenance Agency for the NCIP > standard.) > > > John, I'm glad to hear that there are finally NCIP server products > available for David to connect his self-service booking client to. Could > you point me to them, since I know of some other institutions that > continue > to think that products aren't going to be available for several more > months > at least. > > - David > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- ************************************ Maurice York Team Leader, Circulation and Reserves Woodruff Library Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 mcyork@emory.edu From mark.ellis at yourlibrary.ca Thu Apr 20 12:03:47 2006 From: mark.ellis at yourlibrary.ca (Mark Ellis) Date: Thu Apr 20 12:09:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication Message-ID: <179ED821C9E81A45A575004FF401C00803AA69F4@ara.yourlibrary.ca> The VIEWS site doesn't indicate to me that there's been much activity. The last general meeting was on Dec, 12, 2004 and the last post on the public list was in Sept. 2005. I'm not privy to what's going on behind the scenes, but I'd really like to hear there's some progress because the kind of interoperability and openness the initiative promises were needed years ago. Can anyone reassure me? Mark Ellis Manager, Reference and Information Services Richmond Public Library (BC) 604-231-6410 www.yourlibrary.ca -----Original Message----- From: Maurice York [mailto:maurice.york@emory.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:15 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] sip authentication I'm not certain about a full list of vendors who support NCIP either, but I can say that several major ILS vendors have functioning NCIP servers. I haven't yet seen one who has implemented the fulll protocol , but I know of several who have partial implementations of the basic/essential functions. The list in my head includes ILS vendors with servers as well as a number of third-party vendors who have built clients, including some vendors of PC-reservation systems as well as print management. Without any attempt at giving a complete list, and meaning no slight to anyone, SirsiDynix and Endeavor both have NCIP servers, and SirsiDynix has an NCIP Partner certification program (similar to their SIP2 certification program) that has several third-party vendors with clients listed (just Google "NCIP library vendors"). Some companies who shall remain nameless have predicted the death of NCIP and the impossibility of it ever being adopted, but the existence of several live implementations in both academic and public libraries I think puts that statement in doubt. NCIP is also one of the top technologies for the VIEWS consortium of vendors interested in promoting new web services and technologies (http://www.views-consortia.org/), which just got its start (last year?) and seems to be moving on increasing momentum (slowly but surely). -Maurice On 4/19/06, John Bodfish wrote: > > David: > > The implementation group is assembling a report on the status of its > member's implementations and it should be posted on the NCIP-IG list > soon; I'll let this list know when it's been posted. > > (I'd rather not answer based on my own knowledge as my interest is in > the NCIP Application Areas of Circ/ILL and Direct Consortial > Borrowing, rather than Patron Self-Service. Therefore I'd likely give > an incomplete answer that might slight one or another vendor.) > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of David J. Fiander > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:00 PM > To: 'Web4Lib' > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] sip authentication > > John Bodfish wrote: > > > I second the suggestion of NCIP, and for more recent information on > > the standard and its implementation see > > http://www.cde.state.co.us/ncip/(The > > State Library of Colorado is the Maintenance Agency for the NCIP > standard.) > > > John, I'm glad to hear that there are finally NCIP server products > available for David to connect his self-service booking client to. > Could you point me to them, since I know of some other institutions > that continue to think that products aren't going to be available for > several more months at least. > > - David > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- ************************************ Maurice York Team Leader, Circulation and Reserves Woodruff Library Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 mcyork@emory.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From popp at indiana.edu Thu Apr 20 12:13:19 2006 From: popp at indiana.edu (Popp, Mary Pagliero) Date: Thu Apr 20 12:16:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Metadata for Library Web Pages? Message-ID: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> Hi! We are working hard to add more metadata to our web pages so that they are more easily found by our own and other search engines. I am writing to ask all of you two questions: 1. Do any of you have guidelines for metadata/metatags on HTML pages? If so, are you willing to share them? 2. Are there any Content Management systems out there that create metadata automatically from the contents of data included in web pages? Many thanks! Mary ---------------------------------------------- Mary Pagliero Popp Public Services Librarian, Library Information Technology Indiana University Libraries, Wells Library E456 1320 E. 10th Street Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-8170 FAX: 812-856-7949 popp@indiana.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Apr 20 12:29:01 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Thu Apr 20 12:29:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Metadata for Library Web Pages? In-Reply-To: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> References: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4447B6CD.50901@ohiolink.edu> On 4/20/2006 12:13 PM, Popp, Mary Pagliero wrote: > Hi! We are working hard to add more metadata to our web pages so that > they are more easily found by our own and other search engines. I am > writing to ask all of you two questions: > I understood that the commercial search engines ignore inline metadata because they has been so frequently abused for index spamming. Can anyone confirm? If so, your search engine is probably the only one that will make use of it (which is still valuable!), so it may not be important to match anyone else's standards. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From pnoerr at MuseGlobal.com Thu Apr 20 12:28:55 2006 From: pnoerr at MuseGlobal.com (Peter Noerr) Date: Thu Apr 20 12:33:30 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] sip authentication Message-ID: <74F79D902B0ADC489E945A59704F9369136478@MG-XCH-01.MuseGlobal.local> The VIEWS work has been taken over by a NISO working group to do the actual work and an interest group (which anyone can join) to keep an eye on what they are doing. - have a look at http://www.niso.org/committees/Services/Services_comm.html If you want to get the latest from them or get involved you can contact Candy Zemon at candy.zemon _AT_ polarislibrary.com Peter Noerr CTO, MuseGlobal > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Mark Ellis > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:04 AM > To: Web4Lib > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] sip authentication > > The VIEWS site doesn't indicate to me that there's been much > activity. The last general meeting was on Dec, 12, 2004 and > the last post on the public list was in Sept. 2005. I'm not > privy to what's going on behind the scenes, but I'd really > like to hear there's some progress because the kind of > interoperability and openness the initiative promises were > needed years ago. > > Can anyone reassure me? > > Mark Ellis > Manager, Reference and Information Services Richmond Public > Library (BC) 604-231-6410 www.yourlibrary.ca From Bret.Parker at ci.stockton.ca.us Thu Apr 20 13:07:15 2006 From: Bret.Parker at ci.stockton.ca.us (Bret Parker) Date: Thu Apr 20 13:08:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Metadata for Library Web Pages? Message-ID: I know that when we looked into using Verity Ultraseek engine as our own site indexing software there were ways to tune it to our liking using Dublin Core metadata. Not having pursued that path any further I cannot tell you much more than that. We continue to use Google to search our site. Not having made a scientific study of search results, I cannot confirm what Google is or isn't doing with our meta tags. But having adopted the Dublin Core metadata habit, in this sort of way, I can say that I like it. I would add that I have plans for leveraging it in the future. As you can see from the samples below that this is a sincere attempt to attract search engines (or our own indexing engine when we get one), but it is not a cataloger's attempt to apply a controlled vocabulary to the metadata on our web pages. Even the use of the 'language' metadata term might have an application since in the future we will be adding more Spanish pages than the very few we currently have. (Compare samples 1-3 with sample 4.) Sample 1, for this page: http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us/calendars/fair/fcafe.htm Sample 2, for this page: http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us/collection/findart.htm Sample 3, for this page: http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us/newspapr.htm Sample 4, for this page: http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us/hispanic.htm Comments on this approach are welcome, including pointing out any errors you might see with this. Bret Parker, Senior Applications Programmer Analyst (MLIS) Stockton-San Joaquin County Public Library City of Stockton (California) bret.parker@ci.stockton.ca.us (209) 937-7148 http://www.stockton.lib.ca.us >>> Thomas Dowling 4/20/2006 9:29 AM >>> On 4/20/2006 12:13 PM, Popp, Mary Pagliero wrote: > Hi! We are working hard to add more metadata to our web pages so that > they are more easily found by our own and other search engines. I am > writing to ask all of you two questions: > I understood that the commercial search engines ignore inline metadata because they has been so frequently abused for index spamming. Can anyone confirm? If so, your search engine is probably the only one that will make use of it (which is still valuable!), so it may not be important to match anyone else's standards. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com Thu Apr 20 12:29:38 2006 From: Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com (Louise Alcorn) Date: Thu Apr 20 13:10:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages Message-ID: <9361FF6DA66FD34FB64CD5C6589BFD0C031AA5CC@citp1mx03.city.wdm.loc> Very easy solution: Have them print in landscape. We train our users to do a Print Preview first. From Preview you can go to Page Setup and quickly change it to landscape format. Keep in mind the next person who sits down may have to change it back... It's a web design issue, and it drives me crazy that designers don't think of how their pages will print. Someone else mentioned the 'printable view' option--we're also working to train our patrons to look for anything like this, especially with emails and online articles (NY Times, etc.). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Charles Gambrell Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:50 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? Thanks for any help you can give. From CorsonG at gwm.sc.edu Thu Apr 20 13:13:27 2006 From: CorsonG at gwm.sc.edu (Gerri Corson) Date: Thu Apr 20 13:14:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] WebFeat and Science Direct Message-ID: We're still spectators in the sport of federated searching, but keeping a close eye on the players, particularly in academic research libraries. I'm just looking for some broad feedback...generally speaking: Is it living up to the hype? Does it translate well with Science Direct? Has anyone considered WebFeat and then selected a different f/s product? Many thanks for any input! Gerri Corson Reference Librarian Thomas Cooper Library University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803) 777-2956 corsong@gwm.sc.edu From Elena_OMalley at emerson.edu Thu Apr 20 14:12:09 2006 From: Elena_OMalley at emerson.edu (Elena OMalley) Date: Thu Apr 20 14:12:12 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D0C004848@mail.emerson.edu> I'm not sure whether you mean your own pages or customers using your computers (or asking for your expertise) to print other sites' pages. If it's your equipment but external sites...we disabled the print command in the dropdown menu in the browser and made the print preview both prominent (on the browser toolbar) and the only way to get to the print button on our public research machines. Control+p still works, but not everyone knows keyboard shortcuts. The user at least theoretically sees what it's going to look like and has a chance to make adjustments before sending the print job. (Change margins, switch to landscape, or whatever.) Some folks get frustrated because the print command isn't where they expect. And some don't look at the print preview window or don't think it's accurately showing what will print. As with anything, this method has its good and bad points. Elena O'Malley __ Head of Library Computer and Internet Services Emerson College Library, Boston, MA 02116 > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:50:05 -0500 > From: Charles Gambrell > Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages > > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our > customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? > > Thanks for any help you can give. From mgilman at dallaslibrary.org Thu Apr 20 14:21:29 2006 From: mgilman at dallaslibrary.org (Mark Gilman) Date: Thu Apr 20 14:21:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages Message-ID: IE7 promises to deliver better printing functionality. See this thread for details: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/31/445778.aspx I second the idea of using CSS to invoke a separate style sheet. Eric Meyer's site has good, basic info: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/articles/webrev/200001.html What would be useful is if IE7 would support generated content so that one could choose to have the full path URL display in parentheses after the link using the the attr() function. For more info, see: http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/advanced/generated_ content.html Opera handles it well. Regards, Mark Gilman Municipal Reference Librarian Urban Information Center Dallas Public Library 1515 Young St., 6th floor. Dallas, TX 75201 214-670-1482 http://dallaslibrary.org/cgi/cui.htm -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [ mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Charles Gambrell Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:50 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? Thanks for any help you can give. From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Thu Apr 20 14:22:30 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Thu Apr 20 14:22:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Metadata for Library Web Pages? In-Reply-To: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> References: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> Message-ID: <23b83f160604201122o5a23b616hfa7c24b1ffb18f70@mail.gmail.com> Another possibility (and community) to get involved in would be Microformats. This marks up semantics in the HTML of the page to be machine readable. The advantage there is that meta tags only exist in the head, so it's difficult (and unwieldly) to associate them with all the specific items on the page (instead, think of "collection level" metadata). Microformats would be like marking up the item (and would probably be easier to integrate into a CMS). Check out: http://www.microformats.org/ -Ross. On 4/20/06, Popp, Mary Pagliero wrote: > > Hi! We are working hard to add more metadata to our web pages so that > they are more easily found by our own and other search engines. I am > writing to ask all of you two questions: > > 1. Do any of you have guidelines for metadata/metatags on HTML > pages? If so, are you willing to share them? > > 2. Are there any Content Management systems out there that > create metadata automatically from the contents of data included in web > pages? > > Many thanks! > > Mary > ---------------------------------------------- > Mary Pagliero Popp > Public Services Librarian, Library Information Technology > Indiana University Libraries, Wells Library E456 > 1320 E. 10th Street > Bloomington, IN 47405 > 812-855-8170 FAX: 812-856-7949 popp@indiana.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From ijastram at carleton.edu Thu Apr 20 13:58:23 2006 From: ijastram at carleton.edu (Iris Jastram) Date: Thu Apr 20 15:02:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Metadata for Library Web Pages? Message-ID: <4447CBBF.3040303@carleton.edu> > > > I understood that the commercial search engines ignore inline metadata > because they has been so frequently abused for index spamming. > This is not quite correct, though it may have been the case before the search engines became savvier about distinguishing "good" from "bad" metadata. Recent studies have shown that search engines *do* favor pages that have title, subject/keyword, and description tags as long as the words in those tags don't repeat too often (I believe three times is the cut-off point for repetition). They place these pages higher in the result lists and may index them slightly faster. If I remember correctly, there's some difference between search engines and the way they handle html META tags vs. Dublin Core with some favoring one and some favoring the other. When I was doing my research into the types of metadata that show up in pages currently indexed by search engines, I found that between 6 and 8 percent of pages had Dublin Core, and many of these doubled up by also having META tags. Well over half of the pages I sampled had html META tags. (When I get home tonight I can look in to the specific breakdown of the distributions if anyone's interested.) There are several papers published that explore which tags help and which don't and how much they help or hurt based on appearance and ranking in many of the major search engines and subject directories. Three of these are by Jin Zhang and Alexandra Dimitroff, but I could only find one of them online. The citations are: Zhang and Dimitroff. "The impact of webpage content characteristics on webpage visibility in search engine results (Part I)." Information Processing and Management. 41.3 (2005): 665-690. Zhang and Dimitroff. "The impact of metadata implementation on webpage visibility in search engine results (Part II)." Information Processing and Management. 41.3 (2005): 697-715. (This is the paper I could find online at http://mmlab.ceid.upatras.gr/courses/AIS_SITE/files/3%5CThe%20impact%20of%20metadata%20implementation%20on%20webpage%20visibility%20.pdf) Zhang and Dimitroff. "Internet search engines' response to metadata Dublin Core implementation." Journal of Information Science. 30.4 (2004): 310-320. Yours, Iris -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Iris Jastram Reference and Instruction Librarian Gould Library, Carleton College ijastram@carleton.edu 507-646-7105 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From yinzhang at rci.rutgers.edu Thu Apr 20 15:48:52 2006 From: yinzhang at rci.rutgers.edu (Ying Zhang) Date: Thu Apr 20 15:45:59 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Help my research while getting chance of winning a laptop? In-Reply-To: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> References: <2FB6F3120B9BF3408205AE900C12FC9849ADEB@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4447E5A4.4090301@rci.rutgers.edu> Hello there, Will you please do me a favor? For my dissertations, I am conducting an online survey with people?s opinions on (1) what should and/or can be digital library evaluation criteria, and (2) how significant each of these criteria is for assessing digital library performance. Your perspectives are very important in helping me in developing a generic model for digital library evaluation. To help me out, just simply go to http://www.scils.rutgers.edu/surveys/dlec/ and follow the instruction to complete the survey. The survey will take about 30 minutes. As my special appreciation to your support, I?ll send a special Thank-Your gift ($3 value) to each of the first 100 respondents and will send the winner of the Thank-You Drawing a brand new Toshiba Satellite laptop ($700 value). The research has been approved by IRB (Investigation Review Board) at Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey. All your input will be used only for the research purpose and the researcher will take the responsibility of securing their confidentiality. Your name will be collected only if you want to receive the Thank-You gift and/or participate in the drawing for the laptop. Thank you very many in advances for your sincere time and help. Yours Sincerely, Ying Zhang, Ph.D. Candidate School of Communication, Information and Library Studies Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey 4 Huntington Street, New Brunswick NJ 08901 Email: yzhang@scils.rutgers.edu From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Thu Apr 20 17:06:49 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Thu Apr 20 17:06:54 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update References: Message-ID: Anurag Acharya of Google Scholar has announced some changes to Google Scholar as of last night: o 24 new domains - 20 spanish speaking countries and 4 german speaking countries. o Quite a few more articles in many languages (including spanish, german, french and english) o An additional mode to search for "recent articles". This is not a sort-by-date. Rather it tries to approximate how researchers select new papers to read by taking into account reputation of the authors, the journals, how long the paper has been published and the number of citations. o Six more national union catalogs for Library Search o Citation export in EndNote, RefWorks, Refman and Bibtex formats. Roy From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Apr 20 17:37:59 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Apr 20 17:38:10 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002501c664c2$b2171cd0$6401a8c0@venus> > o Citation export in EndNote, RefWorks, Refman and Bibtex formats. > > Roy I take it the citation export is for institutional accounts only? I have an individual account, and I ust tried Google Scholar with Refworks. Even after logging in I couldn't do it, and because there's no "record view" or "email" or some other way to give myself the citation in raw form, I couldn't even force my way around it. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From duncanr at lafayette.edu Thu Apr 20 18:02:42 2006 From: duncanr at lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Thu Apr 20 18:02:48 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update In-Reply-To: <002501c664c2$b2171cd0$6401a8c0@venus> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20060420175932.02c34ac0@incoming.lafayette.edu> At 02:37 PM 04/20/2006 -0700, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > o Citation export in EndNote, RefWorks, Refman and Bibtex formats. > > > > Roy > >I take it the citation export is for institutional accounts only? I have an >individual account, and I ust tried Google Scholar with Refworks. Even >after logging in I couldn't do it, and because there's no "record view" or >"email" or some other way to give myself the citation in raw form, I >couldn't even force my way around it. I don't see any export options anywhere in GS. Bob Duncan ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Robert E. Duncan Systems Librarian Editor of IT Communications Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.library.lafayette.edu/ From ifrank at lib.usf.edu Thu Apr 20 18:10:47 2006 From: ifrank at lib.usf.edu (Frank, Ilene) Date: Thu Apr 20 18:12:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update - citation export Message-ID: <83A7D9F74602294EB7FF81AB36D7F57B0111FA2A@tiki.fastmail.usf.edu> Exporting citations from Google Scholar: If you go to "scholar preferences" in Google Scholar, you can click off "Show links to import citations into [bibliographic manager of choice] You might have to scroll down the screen to see it. Sincerely, Ilene Frank, ifrank@lib.usf.edu Tampa Library, Reference Department University of South Florida (813) 974-2483 http://www.lib.usf.edu/ref/ifrank/ ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Roy Tennant Sent: Thu 4/20/2006 5:06 PM To: Web4Lib Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update Anurag Acharya of Google Scholar has announced some changes to Google Scholar as of last night: o 24 new domains - 20 spanish speaking countries and 4 german speaking countries. o Quite a few more articles in many languages (including spanish, german, french and english) o An additional mode to search for "recent articles". This is not a sort-by-date. Rather it tries to approximate how researchers select new papers to read by taking into account reputation of the authors, the journals, how long the paper has been published and the number of citations. o Six more national union catalogs for Library Search o Citation export in EndNote, RefWorks, Refman and Bibtex formats. Roy _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From afbailey at vt.edu Thu Apr 20 18:23:56 2006 From: afbailey at vt.edu (Annette Bailey) Date: Thu Apr 20 18:23:59 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20060420175932.02c34ac0@incoming.lafayette.edu> References: <002501c664c2$b2171cd0$6401a8c0@venus> <5.2.0.9.0.20060420175932.02c34ac0@incoming.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <3a7f075a0604201523je011f23u578c1de615c145b@mail.gmail.com> To view citation export options you have to select the radio button on the Google Scholar Preferences page (where you set your library). http://scholar.google.com/scholar_preferences?hl=en&lr=&output=search There is a Bibliography Manager at the end of the list of Preferences. The default setting seems to be to not display any "citation import links." Annette On 4/20/06, Bob Duncan wrote: > At 02:37 PM 04/20/2006 -0700, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > > o Citation export in EndNote, RefWorks, Refman and Bibtex formats. > > > > > > Roy > > > >I take it the citation export is for institutional accounts only? I have an > >individual account, and I ust tried Google Scholar with Refworks. Even > >after logging in I couldn't do it, and because there's no "record view" or > >"email" or some other way to give myself the citation in raw form, I > >couldn't even force my way around it. > > I don't see any export options anywhere in GS. > > Bob Duncan > > > ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ > Robert E. Duncan > Systems Librarian > Editor of IT Communications > Lafayette College > Easton, PA 18042 > duncanr@lafayette.edu > http://www.library.lafayette.edu/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Annette Bailey Digital Assets Librarian Newman Library Virginia Tech University Libraries Blacksburg, Virginia PH: (540) 231-9266 From duncanr at lafayette.edu Thu Apr 20 18:30:23 2006 From: duncanr at lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Thu Apr 20 18:30:26 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update In-Reply-To: <3a7f075a0604201523je011f23u578c1de615c145b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20060420175932.02c34ac0@incoming.lafayette.edu> <002501c664c2$b2171cd0$6401a8c0@venus> <5.2.0.9.0.20060420175932.02c34ac0@incoming.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20060420182926.00c50420@incoming.lafayette.edu> At 06:23 PM 04/20/2006 -0400, Annette Bailey wrote: >To view citation export options you have to select the radio button on >the Google Scholar Preferences page (where you set your library). > >http://scholar.google.com/scholar_preferences?hl=en&lr=&output=search > >There is a Bibliography Manager at the end of the list of Preferences. > The default setting seems to be to not display any "citation import >links." Thanks. Who woulda thunk to look in "preferences" for an option! Bob Duncan ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Robert E. Duncan Systems Librarian Editor of IT Communications Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.library.lafayette.edu/ From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Apr 20 19:32:36 2006 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Apr 20 19:32:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Google Scholar update In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20060420182926.00c50420@incoming.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <003f01c664d2$b5286130$6401a8c0@venus> > >There is a Bibliography Manager at the end of the list of Preferences. > > The default setting seems to be to not display any "citation import > >links." > > > Thanks. Who woulda thunk to look in "preferences" for an option! > > Bob Duncan Well, ok, in addition to not being able to export, and not even being able to force an export (raw records etc.), I thought that was dumb, too. :-) Kind of like a feature that doesn't want to be found... Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From rcmason at rsproductions.net Thu Apr 20 20:36:21 2006 From: rcmason at rsproductions.net (Rick Mason) Date: Thu Apr 20 20:35:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> Message-ID: <44482905.8090208@rsproductions.net> Hi Charles, If your customers are printing from your on-site computers, I would recommend installing the Mozilla Firefox browser... it seems to handle most (though not all) of those "off the right side of the page" print jobs better than Internet Explorer. If it is your own web pages that are not printing well, I will second the suggestion of creating a print style sheet. If you are unfamiliar with CSS, there are many good resources out there. One book that has a good section on print style sheets, as well as many other aspects of CSS, is "The CSS anthology : 101 essential tips, tricks & hacks" by Rachel Andrew. http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/oclc/57144293 Hope this helps! Rick Charles Gambrell wrote: > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our > customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? > > Thanks for any help you can give. From jola.prinsen at uvt.nl Fri Apr 21 05:47:37 2006 From: jola.prinsen at uvt.nl (Jola Prinsen) Date: Fri Apr 21 05:47:43 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] summer school on the digital library Message-ID: This message is posted on several lists. My appologies for any duplication. --------------------------------------------------------- Digital Libraries a la Carte: New Choices for the Future --------------------------------------------------------- Modular, International Digital Library Course Tilburg University, The Netherlands, 22-25 August 2006 The International Ticer School (known for its former International Summer School on the Digital Library) offers a new, modular course for librarians and publishers: "Digital Libraries a la Carte: New Choices for the Future". The course will be held at Tilburg University, the Netherlands, 22-25 August 2006. Modules ------- >From its 'menu' of four one-day modules, you can pick your choice: * technological developments, relevant to libraries (lectures) * Library 2.0 technologies to reach out to the customer (hands-on in a computer room) * libraries supporting research and Open Access * libraries and teaching and learning Subjects covered ---------------- * digital paper * interoperability between repositories * institutional portals and the role of the library * developments in search/search engines * blogs/RSS * instant messaging in libraries * Library 2.0 * eScience * virtual research environments and digital libraries * Open Access and the role of the library * the role of the library in teaching and learning * learning technology * the application of gaming in libraries and education * library impact measurement Speakers --------- Top speakers will present their views. Below is a selection. * Malcolm Atkinson is Director of the National e-Science Centre and the new UK e-Science Envoy * Carl Grant is President & COO of VTLS, Inc. * John Willinksy wrote 'The Access Principle: The Case for Open Access to Research and Scholarship' * Paul Miller is Senior Manager and Technology Evangelist at Talis * Michael Stephen's blog 'Tame the Web' is read worldwide by librarians * Philip Payne is an expert on measuring the library's impact on learning and teaching * John Kirriemuir has extensively researched and published on gaming in learning/teaching * Herbert Van de Sompel is a driving force behind the Open Archives Initiative * Sue Roberts co-authored 'Developing the New Learning Environment' * Michael Fraser is the director of the Humbul Humanities Hub To guarantee a highly interactive programme, the number of participants is limited to 45 per module, lectures contain an nteractive component, and one module consists of hands-on sessions in a computer room. The course is recommended by JISC, DEFF - Denmark's Electronic Research Library, the Swiss National Library, Helsinki University Library, and FinELib (Finnish National Electronic Library), part of the National Library of Finland. The course website can be found at www.ticer.nl/06carte/. On the website you can find the full programme, the complete list of 16 lecturers with short bios, abstracts of most presentations and practical information about course fee and registration. If you register before 1 June 2006, you will get a 150 euro discount. -------------------------------------------------------- Do you want a quick update in just one to four days? Then Tilburg is the place to be this summer! -------------------------------------------- Further information ------------------- Ms Jola Prinsen Course Manager Ticer B.V. P.O. Box 4191 5004 JD Tilburg The Netherlands tel. +31 13 466 8310 fax +31 13 466 8383 e-mail jola.prinsen@uvt.nl www.ticer.nl/06carte/ From pwillett at umich.edu Fri Apr 21 08:54:20 2006 From: pwillett at umich.edu (Perry Willett) Date: Fri Apr 21 08:54:27 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Position announcement: Digital Conversion Production Manager Message-ID: <000f01c66542$b570e700$922bd38d@CLUBSODA> The University of Michigan Digital Library Production Service (DLPS) is seeking a Digital Conversion Production Manager (2-year term appointment) to manage the DLPS Digital Conversion Unit (DCU). The DCU is responsible for digital conversion of library collections working with monograph, serial, newspaper, photograph, and manuscript collections. The DCU converts on average 5,000 volumes per year, and is committed to high-volume, efficient digitization. The DCU also works closely with the Scholarly Publishing Office (SPO) on digitizing materials to be published by SPO, and the DCU staff work closely with library selectors, archivists and special collections librarians in developing cost estimates for digitization projects. The Digital Conversion Production Manager supervises a unit of 7 professionals, and part-time workers and student assistants, including technicians for digital capture and conversion of textual materials and continuous tone images. The incumbent is responsible for establishing departmental priorities and long-range unit planning. The Digital Conversion Production Manager develops and maintains a productive and cost effective processing operation which is responsive to the needs of other library units and library users. The workflow for digital conversion needs to be reevaluated due to several factors: the University Library's partnership with Google; changes in the organizational structure of the DCU; and the DLPS's commitment to the principles expressed in the Trusted Digital Repository report issued by RLG and OCLC. Quality control should be strengthened with more automated processes, and documentation and vendor specifications need to be rewritten in response to these factors. More information is available at: Perry Willett Head, Digital Library Production Service 300 Hatcher North University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 Ph: 734-764-8074 Fax: 734-647-6897 Email: pwillett@umich.edu From michele.haytko at gmail.com Fri Apr 21 11:32:40 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Fri Apr 21 11:32:44 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: [Publib] Patron Media In-Reply-To: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E2017EC360@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> References: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E2017EC360@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> Message-ID: <15e475fa0604210832x61cf94a8m1b4aa3a955efbf35@mail.gmail.com> I most certainly will, as soon as it is complete! Thanks, Michele -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From daskey at ksu.edu Fri Apr 21 11:58:59 2006 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Fri Apr 21 11:59:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Federated search products and Full Text/Peer Reviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <016201c663df$2db43740$0400a8c0@BOWIE> References: <016201c663df$2db43740$0400a8c0@BOWIE> Message-ID: <44490143.6070700@ksu.edu> Can't just leave Julie's response unrebutted ... Your comment is what I hear every time I bring up the deficiencies of fed searching within earshot of a fed searching vendor. Yes, in theory it is possible to do all sorts of fun things with inbound data on the client side. I nearly blinded myself writing elegant regular expressions to get a federated search product to morph the incoming data into shape to do all sorts of things. My point is that there's a gap between the "anything is possible" theory and library reality. Any large research library has scores, if not hundreds, of databases that they offer which do not lend themselves to convenient federated searching. Vendors tend to ignore these (once you've purchased the product, that is), so you're on your own to write parsing programs and extra features to get them to work. It's hard and tedious work, and unless you've got a bunch of bored programmers--most libraries don't--then lights out on that. If you can't federate it, things like filters for peer-reviewed articles don't really mean a whole lot. It's not a question of the possible, it's about the doable, and given the iconoclastic nature of some database vendors, well, it's more about lobbying than any technical issue. Dale Julie Blume Nye wrote: >> one of the core weaknesses of >> federated searching, i.e.- it can't do a better job than (or even as >> good of a job as) any given database's native interface. Unless the > > Not necessarily true -- if the targets don't support a feature, the > federated search software may be able to implement it on the client side. > > For example, Fretwell Downing's ZPORTAL limits to peer reviewed journals by > comparing results received from each database against a 'master' list of > peer-reviewed journals. (The comparison is on ISSN, not journal title.) > This allows the peer reviewed limit to applied to results from many more > databases since most databases include ISSNs in their results, while > relatively few support peer-reviewed limiting at present. > Either Openly.Informatics' UHF data or Bowker's Ulrich's dataset can be used > as the master list of peer-reviewed journals. > > This is also the approach ZPORTAL has taken for other features that many > targets don't support (or don't support in comparable ways) -- e.g. date > limiting. > > --------------------------------------- > Julie Blume Nye > Senior Product Designer -- Fretwell-Downing, Inc. > 407 River Trace Dr. > Rougemont, NC 27572 > Phone: 336-364-2607 Fax: 336-364-4224 > E-mail: mailto:julie.nye@fdusa.com > Website: www.fdusa.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DISCLAIMER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The information transmitted in this electronic mail message may contain > confidential and or privileged materials. For full details and restrictions > see http://www.fdgroup.com/emaildisclaimer.html > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dale Askey [mailto:daskey@ksu.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:53 PM >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >> Subject: re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full >> Text/Peer Reviewlimiting >> >> Jonathan, >> >> I think your question gets at the heart of one of the core >> weaknesses of >> federated searching, i.e.- it can't do a better job than (or even as >> good of a job as) any given database's native interface. Unless the >> native interface allows limiting to full text or >> peer-reviewed articles, >> there's at best dim hope that you could get the former to work, and >> practically none for the latter. Now I know a few of you >> highly-skilled >> programmer types are just looking to prove me wrong, and for a few >> limited database targets you might succeed, but let's be >> realistic. With >> a remotely-hosted service, you're never going to have such >> control over >> the search behavior, and with locally-hosted, you'd need some >> very, very >> talented folk (read: large budget or blind luck) to get a fed search >> engine to do this. It may have less to do with the technical aspects, >> frankly, and more to do with the potpourri of data that the >> targets return. >> >> Besides, if you have a good link resolver, why limit to full text >> results? Just slap a link resolver button on each result, and that >> problem is largely solved. >> >> Dale >> >> >> >> quoted message: >> >> Our library is considering adding a federated search product, >> and we've >> got a question for those of you now using them. >> >> In your experience, have Federated Search programs been able >> to reliably >> limit to Full Text and/or Peer Reviewed articles? We're especially >> interested in those programs that are hosted remotely rather than >> locally. >> >> >> -- >> Dale Askey >> Web Development Librarian >> KSU Libraries >> 118 Hale Library >> Manhattan, KS 66506 >> (785) 532-7672 >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From daskey at ksu.edu Fri Apr 21 12:05:16 2006 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Fri Apr 21 12:13:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting In-Reply-To: <6F4AB8A4-73D7-4D14-90DD-396CC1B95276@ucop.edu> References: <6F4AB8A4-73D7-4D14-90DD-396CC1B95276@ucop.edu> Message-ID: <444902BC.8020401@ksu.edu> People certainly had fun with my suggestion to slap a link resolver button on federated search results. A couple of comments: 1 - Hey, in many instances, it would be an improvement over offering nothing. I agree with everyone's criticisms, particularly Ross's arguments about blind alleys, but one has to start somewhere. 2 - Unless talented library programmers/developers such as Ross and David Walker can clone themselves, or unless we're all suddenly blessed with the development capacities of the CDL, the more exotic features you're describing need to be a whole lot easier to implement (say, integrated into the vendor's product, ideally). There's a reason why the rest of us salivate when we see Cal State San Marco's SFX installation, but it's not something that libraries of all sizes can just do without a lot of assistance. To that end, I would ask who out there has documented their extensions and modifications to a link resolver to do some of the things described in this thread. If we're going to declare a service standard, we need to share the love, don't we? Dale Roy Tennant wrote: > On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:27 PM, Karen Harker wrote: > >> My conclusion then is, if we can let the user know the exact status of >> obtaining each citation at the exact point of need, their experience >> with the Library would improve. > > Bingo. > >> Which leads me to what I was originally going to ask Roy: more >> details (about their project), please.... > > What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to accept > multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup before sending > search results to the user interface. Since we haven't been able to get > this to work yet, we are presently trying a work-around in which we send > multiple requests. This is of course not optimal, but until we get a fix > it will have to do. Luckily, our initial load should be relatively > slight to begin with. I do not have anything publicly available to show > yet, although we are getting close to an early alpha prototype. > Roy > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From nina.mchale at cudenver.edu Fri Apr 21 12:05:28 2006 From: nina.mchale at cudenver.edu (McHale, Nina) Date: Fri Apr 21 12:13:59 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] More on Firefox and printing Message-ID: <38B838B2210D8749B82E5914B5E3FA5E039228B7@kelso.cudenver.edu> (Whoops, sent this to just Charles yesterday--more on using Firefox for printing follows for anyone interested...) Hi, Charles, Our subject guides are this way, and I do plan on integrating print CSS into them, as Charles Gimon suggested, but here's a super short term solution: in Mozilla and Firefox, if you choose Print Preview, there is a "Scale" option on the top center of the screen where to can select "Shrink to Fit." Do so, and the info on the screen, in most cases, scales down nicely to an 8.5 x 11 printout. Also, if you don't want the page title, URL, page number, and date and time in the four corners of the printout, select "Page Setup" in Print Preview (to the left of the "Scale" option) and then click the "Margins & Header/Footer" tab. You can set them to "blank" in the drop down menus if you want to make a master copy that doesn't have those four bits of info in the page corners. (Or, you can change these around if you like; for example, if you want the URL at the bottom right of the printout as a reference, you can set it to print the URL there.) Hope this helps, Nina Nina McHale, MA/MSLS Web Services Librarian Auraria Library Serving the University of Colorado at Denver and Health Sciences Center-Downtown Campus, Metropolitan State College and the Community College of Denver 1100 Lawrence Street Denver, Colorado 80204 303-556-4729 nina.mchale@cudenver.edu Nina McHale, MA/MSLS Web Services Librarian Auraria Library Serving the University of Colorado at Denver and Health Sciences Center-Downtown Campus, Metropolitan State College and the Community College of Denver 1100 Lawrence Street Denver, Colorado 80204 303-556-4729 nina.mchale@cudenver.edu From ras at anzio.com Fri Apr 21 12:22:25 2006 From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Fri Apr 21 12:23:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Charles Gambrell wrote: > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our customers > want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? Of all the printing problems I've tackled, that's the one I haven't conquered. I could've made millions... The following focuses mostly on printing web pages, not designing web pages. The short answer is that IE7 has made a good stab at fixing the problem. It is available in beta now, and is pretty stable. It solves the problem by defaulting to shrink-to-fit mode. Also, in Print Preview it allows dynamically moving the margins. Apart from IE7, the only solution seems to be to set your margins wide enough, and/or set the orientation to landscape. The problem as I understand it: Many web pages are designed within a table (or frame) structure, in which the width of the table is FIXED, in order to make the pictures (and/or ads) look right. You can tell this is the case if you resize your browser window and the layout doesn't change. The width of the table is in (screen) pixels. When IE goes to print this, it must scale this somehow to fit the page. My experimentation suggests that it is using a factor of 96 screen pixels per inch (of paper). Thus a CNN.COM news story with a 770 pixel table width prints just over 8 inches wide. True to form, I must switch to landscape to see it all (including the ads :-) ). This 96DPI figure does not seem to be configurable anywhere. I wish I had an answer for this... Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com From vishwam.annam at wright.edu Fri Apr 21 15:28:49 2006 From: vishwam.annam at wright.edu (Vishwam Annam) Date: Fri Apr 21 15:28:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060420094750.0373aaf0@mplonline.org> Message-ID: <44493271.8040001@wright.edu> > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? If you have any tables or nested tables set their width to 100%, as rather than having
    where X is a number. This allows your web page to scale 100% of the paper, but in case if you have big pictures or form filds like big text boxes .. etc this doesn't help. Vishwam Vishwam Annam Web Developer Wright State University Libraries 120 Paul Laurence Dunbar Library 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. Dayton, OH 45435 Office: 937-775-3262 FAX 937-775-2356 Charles Gambrell wrote: > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our > customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? > > Thanks for any help you can give. > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From Sadie.Honey at library.ucsf.edu Fri Apr 21 16:45:56 2006 From: Sadie.Honey at library.ucsf.edu (Sadie Honey) Date: Fri Apr 21 16:46:08 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Software to manage Email/Web form based reference questions Message-ID: <006401c66584$99cff8f0$ec0fda80@libraria.ucsf.edu> Hello, The UCSF Library is looking for software applications that can be used to manage email/Web form based reference questions. We are looking for something that will enable us to collect, assign, and answer questions from a central location. Other features would include the ability to track progress of a question, draw on similar questions that have been answered before, and report on question activity. Do any of you have experience using Customer Relationship Management (CRM), Email tracking & Routing, or Web Contact Center type software to manage electronic questions from patrons? If so, what are you using and how does it work? Any other advice on your experience using this type of software for inquiry tracking would also be greatly appreciated. I will summarize answers to this question for the list. Thank you. Sadie Honey Information & Web Services Librarian Kalmanovitz Library & Center for Knowledge Management - UCSF 530 Parnassus Avenue University of California, San Francisco San Francisco, Ca 94143-0840 415/514-0697 sadie.honey@library.ucsf.edu From kayiwa at uic.edu Fri Apr 21 17:16:21 2006 From: kayiwa at uic.edu (Francis Kayiwa) Date: Fri Apr 21 17:16:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Software to manage Email/Web form based reference questions In-Reply-To: <006401c66584$99cff8f0$ec0fda80@libraria.ucsf.edu> References: <006401c66584$99cff8f0$ec0fda80@libraria.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <9963CD18-FE6B-4CAB-ACE1-05C16C73AF13@uic.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 21, 2006, at 3:45 PM, Sadie Honey wrote: > Hello, > > > > The UCSF Library is looking for software applications that can be > used to > manage email/Web form based reference questions. We are looking for > something that will enable us to collect, assign, and answer > questions from > a central location. Other features would include the ability to track > progress of a question, draw on similar questions that have been > answered > before, and report on question activity. > > > > Do any of you have experience using Customer Relationship > Management (CRM), > Email tracking & Routing, or Web Contact Center type software to > manage > electronic questions from patrons? If so, what are you using and > how does > it work? Any other advice on your experience using this type of > software > for inquiry tracking would also be greatly appreciated. > > > > I will summarize answers to this question for the list. Thank you. We use. Request Tracker and RTFM (no really :-)) http://www.bestpractical.com/products.html I only recently learned about. http://otrs.org/ Find Demo(s) here: http://otrs.org/demo/ All these require "some assembly" but the developers of the software are happy to visit you and help you set it up if you do not have the expertise. They can do everything you have asked for above. They only require PERL and any RDBMS compliant database backend and will scale up really well. I can answer specifics about RT but not OTRS. There's also the venerable bugzilla. Also some assembly required but to my knowledge you will there are no "resellers" of bugzilla. I stand only to be corrected on that. http://www.bugzilla.org/ and the shiny new TRAC http://www.edgewall.com/trac/ regards, ./fxk =============== Francis Kayiwa Library Systems Team 4-180, MC 234 T: +1.312.996.2716 W: http://www.uic.edu/~kayiwa Key: http://tigger.uic.edu/~kayiwa/kayiwa.gpg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFESUulN+YGKSXdLhkRAhP2AJ9HGIxdWT1uvWK5fiShov4SG34BXwCfVKTP 8ry4IchzCDX71OfKqLgbKUg= =RNJY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dwalker at csusm.edu Fri Apr 21 17:16:27 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Fri Apr 21 17:16:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB568@priority.csusm.edu> Roy said: >> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability >> of SFX to accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving >> request to do a lookup before sending search results >> to the user interface. Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has done at Elsevier with "image-based linking." Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), and then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images to load in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our SFX Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're downloading a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX Knowledgebase, storing that info in a local Oracle database, and querying that (and caching results in memory). That loads much, much faster than trying to resolve a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and also keeps our SFX server from getting swamped with requests. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Fri Apr 21 17:44:14 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Fri Apr 21 17:44:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReview limiting In-Reply-To: <444902BC.8020401@ksu.edu> References: <6F4AB8A4-73D7-4D14-90DD-396CC1B95276@ucop.edu> <444902BC.8020401@ksu.edu> Message-ID: <23b83f160604211444y7d5033d9i284c1f11603a0e8e@mail.gmail.com> On 4/21/06, Dale Askey wrote: > 2 - Unless talented library programmers/developers such as Ross and > David Walker can clone themselves, I think I can speak for David as well as myself when I say "be careful what you wish for". > or unless we're all suddenly blessed > with the development capacities of the CDL, the more exotic features > you're describing need to be a whole lot easier to implement (say, > integrated into the vendor's product, ideally). There's a reason why the > rest of us salivate when we see Cal State San Marco's SFX installation, > but it's not something that libraries of all sizes can just do without a > lot of assistance. I cannot agree with this more. This is a /huge/ problem with our current slate of software options. > > To that end, I would ask who out there has documented their extensions > and modifications to a link resolver to do some of the things described > in this thread. If we're going to declare a service standard, we need to > share the love, don't we? This is a good point, and, Dale, I'd be willing to work with you on such an endeavor. In fact, in a presentation I'm going to give in 40 minutes, I'll mention how I've been horribly remiss at contributing /any/ documentation for what I'm talking about (despite complaining about the lack of documentation available). Is this something appropriate for the Library Success Wiki (or whatever it is)? Also, in regards to link resolvers in general... I would like to suggest that we build a microformat for the link resolver results menu. Not everyone has a link resolver that outputs XML, but with a microformat, that wouldn't be necessary and it would allow people to include the output of their resolver menu in other places. -Ross. ps. due to flaky internet connectivity, that presentation was actually about 2 hours ago. And, yeah, I mentioned just this. > > Dale > > Roy Tennant wrote: > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:27 PM, Karen Harker wrote: > > > >> My conclusion then is, if we can let the user know the exact status of > >> obtaining each citation at the exact point of need, their experience > >> with the Library would improve. > > > > Bingo. > > > >> Which leads me to what I was originally going to ask Roy: more > >> details (about their project), please.... > > > > What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to accept > > multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup before sending > > search results to the user interface. Since we haven't been able to get > > this to work yet, we are presently trying a work-around in which we send > > multiple requests. This is of course not optimal, but until we get a fix > > it will have to do. Luckily, our initial load should be relatively > > slight to begin with. I do not have anything publicly available to show > > yet, although we are getting close to an early alpha prototype. > > Roy > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > -- > Dale Askey > Web Development Librarian > KSU Libraries > 118 Hale Library > Manhattan, KS 66506 > (785) 532-7672 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri Apr 21 22:23:53 2006 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Fri Apr 21 22:23:57 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] HW Wilson: "the Google of the 20th century"? Message-ID: Interesting: http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?&aid=58824 Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From Pilkinton.10 at nd.edu Sun Apr 23 12:20:38 2006 From: Pilkinton.10 at nd.edu (Carole Pilkinton) Date: Sun Apr 23 12:20:44 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library statistics/assessment websites Message-ID: <444BA956.1070602@nd.edu> Colleagues, Our library is in the early stages of planning a website which will pull together the various statisitical reports produced by departments that may be buried in department reports or spread across a variety of department and committee webpages, including summary collection and expenditure trends, etc. User surveys regarding library services and collections would also be good candidates for such a project. I'm aware of two such websites by university libraries--U Virginia,the gold standard, and also a very nice site (actually two) by U Maryland Libraries. University of Virginia http://www.lib.virginia.edu/mis/ <>University of Maryland Libraries MIS Dept http://www.lib.umd.edu/CLMD/SERIALS/aboutjnlstats.html http://www.lib.umd.edu/PASD/MIS/index.html I've seen several other libraries which post LibQual survey results and analyses. Has your library produced a similar statistics for collections/services website? If so, can you share the link, or is it available only on an Intranet? Following that thought--I'm hoping you can share your thinking about making these statistics and reports publicly available rather than limiting access to the university or even the library. We are currently trying to decide whether there are any convincing reasons to lock down these statistics. Some of them are a bit sensitive since they include groups of expenditures, but these are often available to others through ARL, ACRL and other reporting organizations anyway. Of course it will be a policy decision by library management in the end, but they might well be interested in how others have thought about this. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this--or pointing me to articles that may have discussed this kind of project, or other websites you may know about. Carole -- Carole Pilkinton Electronic Resources Librarian pilkinton.10@nd.edu 574-631-8405 205 Hesburgh Library University of Notre Dame Notre Dame IN 46556 From pierrenault at gmail.com Sun Apr 23 13:28:41 2006 From: pierrenault at gmail.com (Pierre Nault) Date: Sun Apr 23 13:28:44 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Printing Web Pages (Mark Gilman) Message-ID: Hi Charles, I'm working on a XML project where one of my responsibilities was to create a printable version of a research guide. I used CSS to do the job : you can create a whole new version of your document with a CSS stylesheet dedicated for the print media. And it work fine with IE6 and Firefox (sometimes you need to do some tricks for IE). You cans see an exemple at ( http://wwt.bibliotheques.uqam.ca/recherche/thematiques/projetxml/reference.xml ). See this resource ( http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/cssmediatypes.html) Pierre Nault Biblioth?caire de r?f?rence Bibioth?que centrale de l'UQAM -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > > [ > mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Charles Gambrell > > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:50 AM > > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > > Subject: [Web4lib] Printing Web Pages > > > > We seem to encounter more and more pages that fail to print as our > > customers want. The right side of the web page is not printed. > > Does anyone have a fairly easy solution for this problem? > > Thanks for any help you can give. > > From eric at openly.com Mon Apr 24 00:10:23 2006 From: eric at openly.com (Eric Hellman) Date: Mon Apr 24 00:10:26 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB568@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB568@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based linking mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos is an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information at point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 ServiceType is used to trigger image serving, then the same mechanism can be used in a wide variety of library applications. For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below http://derby.1cate.com/?rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:journal http://derby.1cate.com/?rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:journal It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server application that can handle image serving load without bogging down, as David Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this engineering from their vendors! Eric >Roy said: > >>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability >>> of SFX to accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving >>> request to do a lookup before sending search results >>> to the user interface. > >Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has done >at Elsevier with "image-based linking." > >Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), and >then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images to load >in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our SFX >Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. > >Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're downloading >a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX Knowledgebase, storing >that info in a local Oracle database, and querying that (and caching >results in memory). That loads much, much faster than trying to resolve >a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and also keeps our SFX server from >getting swamped with requests. > >--Dave > >========================= >David Walker >Web Development Librarian >Library, Cal State San Marcos >760-750-4379 >http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker -- Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly Informatics Division eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., Suite 208 tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything From jonathan at dnil.net Mon Apr 24 00:35:24 2006 From: jonathan at dnil.net (Jonathan Rochkind) Date: Mon Apr 24 00:35:11 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB568@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: For modern browsers, this could be done using AJAX-type techniques to load text on an as-available basis, accomplishing the same thing as you are suggesting using images instead of text to accomplish. That would seem preferable to me, although I'm not sure I have a good reason for it; at first I wanted to say it was more 'accessible', but I'm not sure that's true. --Jonathan At 12:10 AM -0400 4/24/06, Eric Hellman wrote: >From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based >linking mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several >link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos >is an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information >at point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 >ServiceType is used to trigger image serving, then the same >mechanism can be used in a wide variety of library applications. > >For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below >http://derby.1cate.com/?rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > >http://derby.1cate.com/?rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > >It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server application >that can handle image serving load without bogging down, as David >Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this engineering from >their vendors! > >Eric > >>Roy said: >> >>>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability >>>> of SFX to accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving >>>> request to do a lookup before sending search results >>>> to the user interface. >> >>Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >>San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has done >>at Elsevier with "image-based linking." >> >>Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >>results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), and >>then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images to load >>in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our SFX >>Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >>full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. >> >>Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're downloading >>a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX Knowledgebase, storing >>that info in a local Oracle database, and querying that (and caching >>results in memory). That loads much, much faster than trying to resolve >>a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and also keeps our SFX server from >>getting swamped with requests. >> >>--Dave >> >>========================= >>David Walker >>Web Development Librarian >>Library, Cal State San Marcos >>760-750-4379 >>http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > >-- > >Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly >Informatics Division >eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., Suite 208 >tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 >http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From nengard at jenkinslaw.org Mon Apr 24 09:24:06 2006 From: nengard at jenkinslaw.org (Nicole Engard) Date: Mon Apr 24 09:24:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Polls Message-ID: We used Advanced Poll from: http://proxy2.de/scripts.php It requires some PHP knowledge - but it was pretty easy to customize to fit right into our Intranet. That way we didn't have to use another site. Hope that helps, Nicole C. Engard http://www.jenkinslaw.org http://web2learning.net -----Original Message----- From: Sue Baldwin [mailto:sbaldwin@nngov.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 12:57 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Polls Hi, I have been thinking about adding a poll to our website for different occasions, mainly tied to some of our programming. For example, during National Poetry Month we could ask for your favorite poet. I read about another public library doing this (I forget which) and thought it sounded like a neat idea. Can anyone recommend a FREE polling site we can use that does not have huge ads?? Anyone know of other public libraries that do this?? Good idea?? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Sue Sue Baldwin Senior Librarian, Technology & Electronic Access Newport News Public Library System 700 Town Center Drive Suite 300 Newport News, VA 23606 757-926-1350 voice 757-926-1365 fax sbaldwin@nngov.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com Mon Apr 24 09:34:41 2006 From: bibliophile_kg at yahoo.com (Kelly Green) Date: Mon Apr 24 09:52:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS feeds In-Reply-To: <23BA0C0672598744AEA9709676791023C73236@lawsrvr.law.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <20060424133441.17591.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> One of the blogs I read in my bloglines is A Zulu in Silicon Valley. The writer covers a lot of web 2.0 technology from a business/practicality perspective. Anyway, he shares a new app called Publish that is supposed to generate RSS feeds for your site -- and they are throw away feeds at that. http://saulweiner.blogspot.com/2006/04/publish-is-great-for-non-bloggers.html I have no experience with this application, but it does look interesting. Would this help those who want to generate RSS from their library sites? Saul also hits the target with his wish that this app would easily connect to structured data. Just imagine using something this easy and inexpensive to extend an OPAC... Kelly Green -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gorman Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:15 AM Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] RSS feeds > I recently read somewhere that you can use Javascript to set up RSS feeds > from your website. --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Apr 24 10:24:08 2006 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Apr 24 10:24:09 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB568@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: As intrigued as I am about this technique, the one downside I see is that when you resolve OpenURLs this way, you cannot provide a link directly to the full-text. That is, the user will still need to click through the OpenURL resolver window, since the link on the page will have already been constructed and delivered to the user BEFORE the OpenURL is resolved. So that for me is an interesting trade-off: either you resolve before you put the results up for the user, and potentially get rid of an additional click and a resolver menu for the user to puzzle over, but suffer any speed consequences there may be, or you put the results up faster but then force the user to go through the resolver menu. The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available without putting up a resolver menu. We are not presently doing this, and I'm not sure who is. So, apparently we must pick our poison, which is becoming a common refrain for those of us involved with constructing metasearch services. Roy On Apr 23, 2006, at 9:10 PM, Eric Hellman wrote: > From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based > linking mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several > link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos > is an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information > at point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 > ServiceType is used to trigger image serving, then the same > mechanism can be used in a wide variety of library applications. > > For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server > application that can handle image serving load without bogging > down, as David Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this > engineering from their vendors! > > Eric > >> Roy said: >> >>>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability >>>> of SFX to accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving >>>> request to do a lookup before sending search results >>>> to the user interface. >> >> Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >> San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has >> done >> at Elsevier with "image-based linking." >> >> Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >> results, we're displaying the results first (so they load >> quickly), and >> then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images >> to load >> in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our SFX >> Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >> full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. >> >> Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're >> downloading >> a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX Knowledgebase, >> storing >> that info in a local Oracle database, and querying that (and caching >> results in memory). That loads much, much faster than trying to >> resolve >> a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and also keeps our SFX server >> from >> getting swamped with requests. >> >> --Dave >> >> ========================= >> David Walker >> Web Development Librarian >> Library, Cal State San Marcos >> 760-750-4379 >> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > > -- > > Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly > Informatics Division > eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., > Suite 208 > tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ > 07003 > http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From ras at anzio.com Mon Apr 24 10:49:19 2006 From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Mon Apr 24 10:49:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Printing Web Pages (Mark Gilman) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Apr 2006, Pierre Nault wrote: > Hi Charles, > > I'm working on a XML project where one of my responsibilities was to > create a printable version of a research guide. I used CSS to do the job : > you can create a whole new version of your document with a CSS stylesheet > dedicated for the print media. And it work fine with IE6 and Firefox > (sometimes you need to do some tricks for IE). You cans see an exemple at ( > http://wwt.bibliotheques.uqam.ca/recherche/thematiques/projetxml/reference.xml > ). It would appear that the correct URL is http://www.bibliotheques.uqam.ca/recherche/thematiques/projetxml/reference.xml Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com From dwalker at csusm.edu Mon Apr 24 10:59:39 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Mon Apr 24 10:59:39 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB5F2@priority.csusm.edu> >> The only way around this I can see is if >> your OpenURL resolver would automatically >> route the user to full-text if it's available >> without putting up a resolver menu. Which is what I'd like to do here. I'm thinking of something along the lines of GUF at Rochester, which not only sends the user directly to the full-text, but also does some pre-checking of the target to see if it is alive, and some additional drilling-down to the article level. I'm just nervous (unnecessarily so?) about trying to do too much processing up-front, particularly in a production environment. So I'm looking for every opportunity to push the heavier processing until point-of-need. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:24 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting As intrigued as I am about this technique, the one downside I see is that when you resolve OpenURLs this way, you cannot provide a link directly to the full-text. That is, the user will still need to click through the OpenURL resolver window, since the link on the page will have already been constructed and delivered to the user BEFORE the OpenURL is resolved. So that for me is an interesting trade-off: either you resolve before you put the results up for the user, and potentially get rid of an additional click and a resolver menu for the user to puzzle over, but suffer any speed consequences there may be, or you put the results up faster but then force the user to go through the resolver menu. The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available without putting up a resolver menu. We are not presently doing this, and I'm not sure who is. So, apparently we must pick our poison, which is becoming a common refrain for those of us involved with constructing metasearch services. Roy From mjordan at sfu.ca Mon Apr 24 11:30:52 2006 From: mjordan at sfu.ca (Mark Jordan) Date: Mon Apr 24 11:30:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB5F2@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB5F2@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <444CEF2C.9030902@sfu.ca> David Walker wrote: >>> The only way around this I can see is if >>> your OpenURL resolver would automatically >>> route the user to full-text if it's available >>> without putting up a resolver menu. > > Which is what I'd like to do here. > > I'm thinking of something along the lines of GUF at Rochester, which not > only sends the user directly to the full-text, but also does some > pre-checking of the target to see if it is alive, and some additional > drilling-down to the article level. > I'd be interested to know how direct-to-document resolvers handle the appropriate cop(ies) problem -- what text does the Rochester resolver present to the user when the library has multiple versions of the same article from different vendors? Does it favor certain vendors? Just a question... Mark Mark Jordan Head of Library Systems W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ From Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca Mon Apr 24 11:37:18 2006 From: Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca (Binkley, Peter) Date: Mon Apr 24 11:36:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: <908893006339C0409519E4065DF3B249015711C3@mailserver.ualibrary.ualberta.ca> Routing direct to full-text is an option in SFX (it chooses the first full-text option based on the priorities you've configured), and we're thinking of trying it. The downside is that if the link fails, there's no safety net: the user never sees the other options that a menu might offer. I like Eric's image-based system, though it does raise an accessibility problem: users who don't see the images won't have any way to benefit from the pre-resolution. But perhaps a bit of AJAX could take care of that. Peter -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:24 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting As intrigued as I am about this technique, the one downside I see is that when you resolve OpenURLs this way, you cannot provide a link directly to the full-text. That is, the user will still need to click through the OpenURL resolver window, since the link on the page will have already been constructed and delivered to the user BEFORE the OpenURL is resolved. So that for me is an interesting trade-off: either you resolve before you put the results up for the user, and potentially get rid of an additional click and a resolver menu for the user to puzzle over, but suffer any speed consequences there may be, or you put the results up faster but then force the user to go through the resolver menu. The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available without putting up a resolver menu. We are not presently doing this, and I'm not sure who is. So, apparently we must pick our poison, which is becoming a common refrain for those of us involved with constructing metasearch services. Roy On Apr 23, 2006, at 9:10 PM, Eric Hellman wrote: > From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based linking > mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several > link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos is > an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information at > point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 ServiceType is > used to trigger image serving, then the same mechanism can be used in > a wide variety of library applications. > > For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server application > that can handle image serving load without bogging down, as David > Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this engineering from their > vendors! > > Eric > >> Roy said: >> >>>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to >>>> accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup >>>> before sending search results to the user interface. >> >> Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >> San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has >> done at Elsevier with "image-based linking." >> >> Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >> results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), >> and then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images >> to load in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our >> SFX Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >> full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. >> >> Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're >> downloading a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX >> Knowledgebase, storing that info in a local Oracle database, and >> querying that (and caching results in memory). That loads much, much >> faster than trying to resolve a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and >> also keeps our SFX server from getting swamped with requests. >> >> --Dave >> >> ========================= >> David Walker >> Web Development Librarian >> Library, Cal State San Marcos >> 760-750-4379 >> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > > -- > > Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly > Informatics Division > eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., > Suite 208 > tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ > 07003 > http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From eric at openly.com Mon Apr 24 12:22:29 2006 From: eric at openly.com (Eric Hellman) Date: Mon Apr 24 12:22:45 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <444CEF2C.9030902@sfu.ca> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB5F2@priority.csusm.edu> <444CEF2C.9030902@sfu.ca> Message-ID: In our system, there are 3 modes configurable by the library autoredirect=off --- always show the link-server page autoredirect=single --- this means redirect if there is one and only one 'best' link autoredirect=best --- redirect to the first 'best' link found even if there are multiple high quality links; links can be ordered by preferred providers I believe that Endeavor's LinkFinderPlus was the first commercial OpenURL resolver that touted this sort of capability. Eric At 8:30 AM -0700 4/24/06, Mark Jordan wrote: >David Walker wrote: >>>>The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver >>>>would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available >>>>without putting up a resolver menu. >> >>Which is what I'd like to do here. >> >>I'm thinking of something along the lines of GUF at Rochester, which not >>only sends the user directly to the full-text, but also does some >>pre-checking of the target to see if it is alive, and some additional >>drilling-down to the article level. >> > >I'd be interested to know how direct-to-document resolvers handle >the appropriate cop(ies) problem -- what text does the Rochester >resolver present to the user when the library has multiple versions >of the same article from different vendors? Does it favor certain >vendors? Just a question... > >Mark > > >Mark Jordan >Head of Library Systems >W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University >Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada >Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 >mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ -- Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly Informatics Division eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., Suite 208 tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything From aalakos at library.ucla.edu Mon Apr 24 12:24:12 2006 From: aalakos at library.ucla.edu (Amos Lakos) Date: Mon Apr 24 12:24:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library statistics/assessment websites In-Reply-To: <444BA956.1070602@nd.edu> References: <444BA956.1070602@nd.edu> Message-ID: <1273661.1145870652@LIBRARY-08.DDNSUserTracking> Carole - at least two come to mind - University of Pennsylvania Library's Data Farm - and University of Washington's site - There may be some more. Amos --On Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:20 PM -0400 Carole Pilkinton wrote: > Colleagues, > > Our library is in the early stages of planning a website which will pull > together the various statisitical reports produced by departments that > may be buried in department reports or spread across a variety of > department and committee webpages, including summary collection and > expenditure trends, etc. User surveys regarding library services and > collections would also be good candidates for such a project. > > I'm aware of two such websites by university libraries--U Virginia,the > gold standard, and also a very nice site (actually two) by U Maryland > Libraries. > University of Virginia > http://www.lib.virginia.edu/mis/ > <>University of Maryland Libraries MIS Dept > http://www.lib.umd.edu/CLMD/SERIALS/aboutjnlstats.html > http://www.lib.umd.edu/PASD/MIS/index.html > > I've seen several other libraries which post LibQual survey results and > analyses. > > Has your library produced a similar statistics for collections/services > website? If so, can you share the link, or is it available only on an > Intranet? > Following that thought--I'm hoping you can share your thinking about > making these statistics and reports publicly available rather than > limiting access to the university or even the library. We are currently > trying to decide whether there are any convincing reasons to lock down > these statistics. Some of them are a bit sensitive since they include > groups of expenditures, but these are often available to others through > ARL, ACRL and other reporting organizations anyway. Of course it will be > a policy decision by library management in the end, but they might well > be interested in how others have thought about this. > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this--or pointing me to articles > that may have discussed this kind of project, or other websites you may > know about. > > Carole > > -- > Carole Pilkinton > Electronic Resources Librarian > pilkinton.10@nd.edu > 574-631-8405 > 205 Hesburgh Library > University of Notre Dame > Notre Dame IN 46556 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ Amos Lakos Librarian, Rosenfeld Management Library UCLA - Anderson School of Management 110 Westwood Plaza, Box 951460 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1460 Phone: (310) 794-4381 Fax: (310) 825-4835 E-mail: aalakos@library.ucla.edu Web: http://personal.anderson.ucla.edu/amos.lakos/index.html From abrin at brynmawr.edu Mon Apr 24 12:28:55 2006 From: abrin at brynmawr.edu (Adam Brin) Date: Mon Apr 24 12:29:58 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products andFullText/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <908893006339C0409519E4065DF3B249015711C3@mailserver.ualibrary.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <009001c667bc$312e0550$bfdc6aa5@DUSHARA> We actually have developed a work-around for this approach in SFX but take a different approach to Rochester as we don't have a metasearch tool. Like others, we wanted to ensure that users didn't have to choose between sources, but get taken directly to the full text. In a sense, we show a mini-menu... allowing the user to go to the full-text but get back to the Menu and a few other options. We use the SFX logic and sort rules to govern which targets are 'preferred'. You can see the result here: http://sfx.exlibrisgroup.com:9003/haverf?sid=google&auinit=G&aulast=Mazza&at itle=Absorption+of+anthocyanins+from+blueberries+and+serum+antioxidant+statu s+in+human+subjects&id=pmid:12475297 The Frame (one of the few places where it actually is a functionally useful thing) provides the context and a way to get back to the SFX Menu. - adam _____________________________________ Tri-Colleges Systems Coordinator Bryn Mawr | Haverford | Swarthmore 610.526.5294 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Binkley, Peter Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:37 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Federated search products andFullText/PeerReviewlimiting Routing direct to full-text is an option in SFX (it chooses the first full-text option based on the priorities you've configured), and we're thinking of trying it. The downside is that if the link fails, there's no safety net: the user never sees the other options that a menu might offer. I like Eric's image-based system, though it does raise an accessibility problem: users who don't see the images won't have any way to benefit from the pre-resolution. But perhaps a bit of AJAX could take care of that. Peter -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:24 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting As intrigued as I am about this technique, the one downside I see is that when you resolve OpenURLs this way, you cannot provide a link directly to the full-text. That is, the user will still need to click through the OpenURL resolver window, since the link on the page will have already been constructed and delivered to the user BEFORE the OpenURL is resolved. So that for me is an interesting trade-off: either you resolve before you put the results up for the user, and potentially get rid of an additional click and a resolver menu for the user to puzzle over, but suffer any speed consequences there may be, or you put the results up faster but then force the user to go through the resolver menu. The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available without putting up a resolver menu. We are not presently doing this, and I'm not sure who is. So, apparently we must pick our poison, which is becoming a common refrain for those of us involved with constructing metasearch services. Roy On Apr 23, 2006, at 9:10 PM, Eric Hellman wrote: > From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based linking > mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several > link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos is > an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information at > point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 ServiceType is > used to trigger image serving, then the same mechanism can be used in > a wide variety of library applications. > > For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server application > that can handle image serving load without bogging down, as David > Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this engineering from their > vendors! > > Eric > >> Roy said: >> >>>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to >>>> accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup >>>> before sending search results to the user interface. >> >> Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >> San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has >> done at Elsevier with "image-based linking." >> >> Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >> results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), >> and then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images >> to load in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our >> SFX Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >> full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. >> >> Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're >> downloading a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX >> Knowledgebase, storing that info in a local Oracle database, and >> querying that (and caching results in memory). That loads much, much >> faster than trying to resolve a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and >> also keeps our SFX server from getting swamped with requests. >> >> --Dave >> >> ========================= >> David Walker >> Web Development Librarian >> Library, Cal State San Marcos >> 760-750-4379 >> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > > -- > > Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly > Informatics Division > eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., > Suite 208 > tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ > 07003 > http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca Mon Apr 24 12:55:42 2006 From: lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca (Lisa Manax Skikos) Date: Mon Apr 24 12:56:16 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library From eduncan at bramlib.on.ca Mon Apr 24 13:16:07 2006 From: eduncan at bramlib.on.ca (Emma Duncan) Date: Mon Apr 24 13:14:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: <061988DC1B1A7140BC5C2403B7B15D6B91981E@chmail02.bramlib.on.ca> Hi, We do our e-newsletter in-house and it's a lot of work, so I'd be interested in hearing about which product you eventually go with. Dearreader.com, who we use for our Online Book club service, also has an e-newsletter service. We don't use them for this, but we are really happy with the online book clubs, so it might be worthwhile looking into. http://www.dearreader.com/service/newsletters.html Thanks, Emma Duncan Coordinator, Business & E-Services Brampton Library -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: April 24, 2006 12:56 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ ------------------------------ The content of this message is the confidential property of the Brampton Library and is intended for use by the individual or institution to which it is addressed. This message may not be copied, modified, retransmitted or used for any purpose except by the intended recipient with his/her organization. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies and notify us immediately. From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Mon Apr 24 13:15:51 2006 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Mon Apr 24 13:16:55 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: What's good about LFP is that it can be applied to vendor or even the title level, whereas with other link resolvers, it is an all-or-nothing setting. Some vendors are quite trustworthy and we can feel secure in sending the user directly to the full-text. Others are definitely not so, or LFP does not have the best configuration. I would highly recommend that all link resolvers make this feature available at the title or at least vendor level. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> Eric Hellman 4/24/2006 11:22 AM >>> In our system, there are 3 modes configurable by the library autoredirect=off --- always show the link-server page autoredirect=single --- this means redirect if there is one and only one 'best' link autoredirect=best --- redirect to the first 'best' link found even if there are multiple high quality links; links can be ordered by preferred providers I believe that Endeavor's LinkFinderPlus was the first commercial OpenURL resolver that touted this sort of capability. Eric At 8:30 AM -0700 4/24/06, Mark Jordan wrote: >David Walker wrote: >>>>The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver >>>>would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available >>>>without putting up a resolver menu. >> >>Which is what I'd like to do here. >> >>I'm thinking of something along the lines of GUF at Rochester, which not >>only sends the user directly to the full-text, but also does some >>pre-checking of the target to see if it is alive, and some additional >>drilling-down to the article level. >> > >I'd be interested to know how direct-to-document resolvers handle >the appropriate cop(ies) problem -- what text does the Rochester >resolver present to the user when the library has multiple versions >of the same article from different vendors? Does it favor certain >vendors? Just a question... > >Mark > > >Mark Jordan >Head of Library Systems >W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University >Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada >Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 >mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ -- Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly Informatics Division eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., Suite 208 tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com Mon Apr 24 13:14:53 2006 From: Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com (Louise Alcorn) Date: Mon Apr 24 13:20:45 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: <9361FF6DA66FD34FB64CD5C6589BFD0C031AA5F7@citp1mx03.city.wdm.loc> Our primary need for e-newsletters is for reader's advisory type queries. We are going with Book Page's "Bookletters" product (will launch May 1st, I hope). Patrons opt in for emails on a variety of topics (some created by Bookletters, some created by us), including genre fiction, nonfiction, **general library newsletters (we create and send out at our schedule), our **Teen Scene newsletter (again, we create and push out), our children's programming calendar, etc. Quite easy to use and reasonable priced. I've not used it extensively yet myself, but I demo'd the admin side and was impressed. I'll have no qualms setting other staff members free on it to create content and send it out, even the technically less proficient. There is absolutely NO support required by our IT department after initial setup (links through our website, all admin is web-based). I can add or delete patrons manually if I choose, but primarily they administer their own opt-in/opt-out. Other libraries in our area are using it to great effect (Ames (Iowa) Public Library is one). It's targeted to the public library market, obviously, as is *EBSCO's Next Reads* product (just released), which we also looked at. They are very comparable--we went with the Bookletters product largely for timing reasons. I hope this is helpful. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:56 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Mon Apr 24 13:21:27 2006 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Mon Apr 24 13:23:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From dwalker at csusm.edu Mon Apr 24 14:43:32 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Mon Apr 24 14:43:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products andFullText/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB6AE@priority.csusm.edu> >> it does raise an accessibility problem: >> users who don't see the images won't have >> any way to benefit from the pre-resolution. >> But perhaps a bit of AJAX could take care of >> that. Which brings us back to Jonathan's earlier comment about AJAX and his (and my) hesitancy to say that AJAX is more accessible. I've yet to read anything definitive on this. It appears that some screen readers can read content dynamically inserted into a browser's DOM, but if JavaScript is turned off or the user has an older browser, obviously AJAX will not provide us with an out. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Binkley, Peter Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:37 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Federated search products andFullText/PeerReviewlimiting Routing direct to full-text is an option in SFX (it chooses the first full-text option based on the priorities you've configured), and we're thinking of trying it. The downside is that if the link fails, there's no safety net: the user never sees the other options that a menu might offer. I like Eric's image-based system, though it does raise an accessibility problem: users who don't see the images won't have any way to benefit from the pre-resolution. But perhaps a bit of AJAX could take care of that. Peter -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:24 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting As intrigued as I am about this technique, the one downside I see is that when you resolve OpenURLs this way, you cannot provide a link directly to the full-text. That is, the user will still need to click through the OpenURL resolver window, since the link on the page will have already been constructed and delivered to the user BEFORE the OpenURL is resolved. So that for me is an interesting trade-off: either you resolve before you put the results up for the user, and potentially get rid of an additional click and a resolver menu for the user to puzzle over, but suffer any speed consequences there may be, or you put the results up faster but then force the user to go through the resolver menu. The only way around this I can see is if your OpenURL resolver would automatically route the user to full-text if it's available without putting up a resolver menu. We are not presently doing this, and I'm not sure who is. So, apparently we must pick our poison, which is becoming a common refrain for those of us involved with constructing metasearch services. Roy On Apr 23, 2006, at 9:10 PM, Eric Hellman wrote: > From an architectural standpoint, I think that the image-based linking > mechanism implemented in Scopus in cooperation with several > link-server vendors and being experimented with at Cal State Marcos is > an excellent way for link servers to expose holdings information at > point-of-click. The neat thing is that if a OpenURL 1.0 ServiceType is > used to trigger image serving, then the same mechanism can be used in > a wide variety of library applications. > > For an example of how this works, try the two OpenURL links below > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0954-6820&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > http://derby.1cate.com/? > rft.issn=0022-510X&svc_id=img&url_ver=Z39.88-2004&&rft_val_fmt=info:of > i/fmt:kev:mtx:journal > > It is not difficult to engineer and deploy a link server application > that can handle image serving load without bogging down, as David > Walker is finding. Libraries should demand this engineering from their > vendors! > > Eric > >> Roy said: >> >>>> What we are attempting to do is to use the ability of SFX to >>>> accept multiple OpenURLs in one resolving request to do a lookup >>>> before sending search results to the user interface. >> >> Karen, we're experimenting with a somewhat different approach here at >> San Marcos, inspired in large part by the work Rolf Kwakkelaar has >> done at Elsevier with "image-based linking." >> >> Rather than send requests to SFX in advance of displaying search >> results, we're displaying the results first (so they load quickly), >> and then using the browser's inherent asynchronous loading of images >> to load in a full-text or non-full text image based on a query of our >> SFX Knowledgebase -- unless, that is, the database itself has native >> full-text, in which case this processes is skipped. >> >> Also, rather then query SFX directly for availability, we're >> downloading a slimmed down set of information out of the SFX >> Knowledgebase, storing that info in a local Oracle database, and >> querying that (and caching results in memory). That loads much, much >> faster than trying to resolve a full OpenURL against the SFX API, and >> also keeps our SFX server from getting swamped with requests. >> >> --Dave >> >> ========================= >> David Walker >> Web Development Librarian >> Library, Cal State San Marcos >> 760-750-4379 >> http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker > > -- > > Eric Hellman, Director OCLC Openly > Informatics Division > eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., > Suite 208 > tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ > 07003 > http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Mon Apr 24 15:24:08 2006 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Mon Apr 24 15:24:11 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products andFullText/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB6AE@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB6AE@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <23b83f160604241224i5eb15f53hf7e21be99cc7be7@mail.gmail.com> On 4/24/06, David Walker wrote: > > > DOM, but if JavaScript is turned off or the user has an older browser, > obviously AJAX will not provide us with an out. Of course, this user is going to have issues with vast swaths of the web, anyway... I think they'd be used to a lack of functionality at this point. I would be more concerned about the effect of AJAX on screen readers than older browsers, and, honestly, this can depricate gracefully... Link to the resolver menu until the results come back cleanly (and if they don't, no harm no foul... the user just has to walk through another step). -Ross. From arhyno at uwindsor.ca Mon Apr 24 16:49:38 2006 From: arhyno at uwindsor.ca (arhyno@uwindsor.ca) Date: Mon Apr 24 16:51:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Way back on April 18, Roy Tennant wrote: >Even better would be to have the ability to limit search results to >full-text resources, but as has been said here that is still >difficult and often out of our hands (vendors need to support it). So >no, the problem is far from solved, at least from the perspective of >good user service. Ever the consistent and insightful scribe, Roy documented the advantages of this kind of limit function brilliantly a few years ago in "The Trouble with Online" , and I have been hung up on it ever since Roy's article and grimacing through a particular rash of comments in a survey here around the same time that included zingers like "don't show it to me unless you can deliver it NOW". The "full text" status workarounds involving images and so on that have emerged on this thread are well worth pursuing, and are a big step forward from the "click and hope" model that resolvers seem to represent now. But the idea of scoping results based on availability might conceivably be powered by a common index format. There's an interesting example in the book "Lucene in Action" for combining indexes at remote sites using Lucene, and I wonder if the appearance of open source and network savvy indexers makes limiting feasible in real time across different systems. Imagine if you indexed your resolver data with Lucene and a content provider made an index of holdings available using the same tool. Or maybe you want to use a subset of what's in the knowledge base, or use some other source for identifying accessible material. Lucene seems to be very efficient at combining indexes, and then limiting based on the process, and there are probably other systems that can jump through similar hoops. It would be interesting to take a service with publically available citation data and combine it with an indexed rendering of resolver content to see how efficient this could be made to function. art --- Art Rhyno Systems Librarian http://librarycog.uwindsor.ca From Pilkinton.10 at nd.edu Mon Apr 24 17:41:19 2006 From: Pilkinton.10 at nd.edu (Carole Pilkinton) Date: Mon Apr 24 17:41:30 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Library statistics/assessment websites In-Reply-To: <20060423152136.sb6ookgkwksc0ko4@www.email.arizona.edu> References: <444BA956.1070602@nd.edu> <441b56370604231518g6c133e97y2c3f83ef4e779607@mail.gmail.com> <20060423152136.sb6ookgkwksc0ko4@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <444D45FF.4000607@nd.edu> Everyone, Several of you suggested Joe Zucca's Data Farm...which I'm familiar with and can't believe I overlooked. The 'Dashboard' page for obtaining ejournal and database usage statistics suggests a wonderful database driven technique for getting the usage numbers sliced to order. Most of the site functionality is limited to Penn users, but the 'Penn Library Facts' link includes a very nice report for many key statistics. I've heard Joe speak a couple of times, and his Data Farm is truly an amazing achievement. A couple of PPs of his that I know about are available at http://www.libqual.org/documents/admin/ZUCCAalcts05.ppt http://www.arl.org/stats/newmeas/ala02/zucca.ppt Thanks Paul, Amos, Danianne... Carole On 4/23/2006 6:21 PM Paul Bracke wrote the following: > Carole, > I'd highly recommend taking a look at Penn's Data Farm, at > http://metrics.library.upenn.edu/prototype/datafarm/. I believe that > Joe Zucca > has published an article or two about this project. > Paul > >> From: Carole Pilkinton Date: Apr 23, 2006 9:20 AM >> Subject: [Web4lib] Library statistics/assessment websites >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >> >> Colleagues, >> >> Our library is in the early stages of planning a website which will >> pull together the various statisitical reports produced by >> departments that >> may be buried in department reports or spread across a variety of >> department and committee webpages, including summary collection and >> expenditure trends, etc. User surveys regarding library services and >> collections would also be good candidates for such a project. >> >> I'm aware of two such websites by university libraries--U Virginia,the >> gold standard, and also a very nice site (actually two) by U Maryland >> Libraries. >> University of Virginia >> http://www.lib.virginia.edu/mis/ >> University of Maryland Libraries MIS Dept >> http://www.lib.umd.edu/CLMD/SERIALS/aboutjnlstats.html >> http://www.lib.umd.edu/PASD/MIS/index.html >> >> I've seen several other libraries which post LibQual survey results >> and >> analyses. >> >> Has your library produced a similar statistics for >> collections/services >> website? If so, can you share the link, or is it available only on an >> Intranet? >> Following that thought--I'm hoping you can share your thinking about >> making these statistics and reports publicly available rather than >> limiting access to the university or even the library. We are >> currently trying to decide whether there are any convincing reasons >> to lock >> down >> these statistics. Some of them are a bit sensitive since they include >> groups of expenditures, but these are often available to others >> through ARL, ACRL and other reporting organizations anyway. Of course it >> will >> be a policy decision by library management in the end, but they might >> well be interested in how others have thought about this. >> >> Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this--or pointing me to >> articles that may have discussed this kind of project, or other >> websites you >> may know about. >> >> Carole >> >> -- >> Carole Pilkinton >> Electronic Resources Librarian >> pilkinton.10@nd.edu >> 574-631-8405 >> 205 Hesburgh Library >> University of Notre Dame >> Notre Dame IN 46556 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > -- Carole Pilkinton Electronic Resources Librarian pilkinton.10@nd.edu 574-631-8405 205 Hesburgh Library University of Notre Dame Notre Dame IN 46556 From mjordan at sfu.ca Mon Apr 24 23:19:06 2006 From: mjordan at sfu.ca (Mark Jordan) Date: Mon Apr 24 23:20:17 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Drupalib: a place for library druplers Message-ID: <444D952A.3050301@sfu.ca> Hi, I've set up a website for people who are implementing, or who are considering implementing, the Drupal Content Management System in libraries. Drupalib (http://drupalib.interoperating.info/) is intended as a place for Drupal implementors to share ideas, configurations, themes, and maybe even to incubate the development of some modules that allow commonly desired functionality in library websites. It's based roughly on drupaled (http://drupaled.org/), and features a blog, a forum, and a listing of drupal sites implemented by libraries. Mark Mark Jordan Head of Library Systems W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ From jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie Tue Apr 25 08:59:10 2006 From: jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie (John Fitzgibbon) Date: Tue Apr 25 09:00:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] putting one printer on two Local Area Networks Message-ID: Hi, In each of our libraries, we have two networks, one for the public and one for staff. The public network is connected to the Internet via a DSL line. Each network has a printer with a network card. We are now about to replace these printers. Is it possible to acquire a printer with two network cards and put it on both networks or is this a bad idea? Alternatively, is it possible to assign two IP addresses to the network card of the printer? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Regards John ******************************************************************* Tá eolas atá príobháideach agus rúnda sa ríomhphost seo agus aon iatán a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amháin a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. Mura seolaí thú, níl tú údaraithe an ríomhphost nó aon iatán a ghabhann leis a léamh, a chóipáil ná a úsáid. Má tá an ríomhphost seo faighte agat trí dhearmad, cuir an seoltóir ar an eolas thrí aischur ríomhphoist agus scrios ansin é le do thoil. This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. ********************************************************************* From lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca Tue Apr 25 09:21:51 2006 From: lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca (Lisa Manax Skikos) Date: Tue Apr 25 09:22:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: Unfortunately timelines for this project are extremely tight with little IT support available so I think blogging software is out, although I am looking at implementing blogs this summer for book clubs. The right enewsletter software will have a database that connects to our web site for subscriber addresses so patrons can subscribe/unsubscribe from our web site. thanks, Lisa >>> "Karen Harker" 04/24/06 01:21PM >>> Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From cmurdock at ccfls.org Tue Apr 25 09:25:08 2006 From: cmurdock at ccfls.org (Cindy Murdock) Date: Tue Apr 25 09:25:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] putting one printer on two Local Area Networks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <444E2334.1080905@ccfls.org> Hello John, Perhaps you could use a DMZ, and put your printers inside it. Then you could use firewall rules that redirect traffic from your inside network or your public network. Potentially complicated but doable. For example, we have a Soekris Net4501 running OpenBSD that allows access to servers in our DMZ from either our library network or the Internet at large. The DMZ servers have IP addresses in the 192.168.20.x range, and the firewall (pf) redirects traffic to them from both the internal network and outside. HTH, _________________________ Cindy Murdock Network Administrator Meadville Public Library | Crawford County Federated Library System meadvillelibrary.org | ccfls.org John Fitzgibbon wrote: > Hi, > > In each of our libraries, we have two networks, one for the public and > one for staff. The public network is connected to the Internet via a DSL > line. Each network has a printer with a network card. We are now about > to replace these printers. Is it possible to acquire a printer with two > network cards and put it on both networks or is this a bad idea? > Alternatively, is it possible to assign two IP addresses to the network > card of the printer? > > Any suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Regards > John > > ******************************************************************* > T? eolas at? pr?obh?ideach agus r?nda sa r?omhphost seo > agus aon iat?n a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine > sin amh?in a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. > Mura seola? th?, n?l t? ?daraithe an r?omhphost n? aon iat?n > a ghabhann leis a l?amh, a ch?ip?il n? a ?s?id. > M? t? an r?omhphost seo faighte agat tr? dhearmad, > cuir an seolt?ir ar an eolas thr? aischur r?omhphoist > agus scrios ansin ? le do thoil. > > This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is > private and confidential and is intended for the addressee > only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised > to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. > If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify > the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. > ********************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- From ealyt at wtcpl.lib.oh.us Tue Apr 25 09:35:26 2006 From: ealyt at wtcpl.lib.oh.us (Tyra Ealy) Date: Tue Apr 25 09:37:46 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: <01250F374238C54087B9B6597F769539051607A2@wtcpl1.wtcpl.lib.oh.us> Have you checked out 'bookletters'? I don't know much about it, but have heard of other libraries using it. We're also investigating its potential. http://www.bookletters.com Tyra L. Ealy Computer Systems Manager Warren-Trumbull County Public Library 444 Mahoning Ave. NW Warren, OH 44483 330-399-8807, ext. 140 http://www.wtcpl.lib.oh.us/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:22 AM To: Karen.Harker@UTSouthwestern.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Unfortunately timelines for this project are extremely tight with little IT support available so I think blogging software is out, although I am looking at implementing blogs this summer for book clubs. The right enewsletter software will have a database that connects to our web site for subscriber addresses so patrons can subscribe/unsubscribe from our web site. thanks, Lisa >>> "Karen Harker" 04/24/06 01:21PM >>> >>> Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From campbell at virginia.edu Tue Apr 25 09:50:18 2006 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Tue Apr 25 09:49:42 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and Full Text/PeerReviewlimiting In-Reply-To: <444902BC.8020401@ksu.edu> Message-ID: <010501c6686f$305a4a40$f6c58f80@library.virginia.edu> I've been away and am just catching up on this interesting thread. One added point to the issue of links to titles that aren't available. It would be nice if the stats packages from the resolver vendors included a list of unavailable journals with data on how often they were requested and what years were needed. That would give libraries a chance to do something about the turnaways. Given that resolver use will never be a complete picture of journal use, data on what's not found really would be more useful than the data most resolvers now provide on what was found, though adding that useful feature would make life harder for the salespeople who could no longer just say "and of course we're fully COUNTER compliant" and go on to something more interesting. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu From lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca Tue Apr 25 09:59:44 2006 From: lisa.manax.skikos at lpl.london.on.ca (Lisa Manax Skikos) Date: Tue Apr 25 10:00:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: Thanks Tyra. Many people have mentioned bookletters and I am looking into that as well. What a staff timesaver it appears to be! Just need to clarify who is storing the patron email addresses - bookletters or the library - anyone know? Many other newsletter services store your patron email addresses on their servers and I'm thinking that may conflict with our patron confidentiality and privacy policies. Lisa >>> "Tyra Ealy" 04/25/06 09:35AM >>> Have you checked out 'bookletters'? I don't know much about it, but have heard of other libraries using it. We're also investigating its potential. http://www.bookletters.com Tyra L. Ealy Computer Systems Manager Warren-Trumbull County Public Library 444 Mahoning Ave. NW Warren, OH 44483 330-399-8807, ext. 140 http://www.wtcpl.lib.oh.us/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:22 AM To: Karen.Harker@UTSouthwestern.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Unfortunately timelines for this project are extremely tight with little IT support available so I think blogging software is out, although I am looking at implementing blogs this summer for book clubs. The right enewsletter software will have a database that connects to our web site for subscriber addresses so patrons can subscribe/unsubscribe from our web site. thanks, Lisa >>> "Karen Harker" 04/24/06 01:21PM >>> >>> Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From dwalker at csusm.edu Tue Apr 25 10:39:41 2006 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Tue Apr 25 10:39:44 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB7ED@priority.csusm.edu> Hey Jim, SFX tracks journals that did not resolve to full-text or print. That can be a very handy collection development tool. One of my colleagues here at Cal State San Marcos published an article on that very topic: Mark Stengel (2004) "Using SFX to Identify Unexpressed User Needs," Collection Management. Vol. 29 Issue 2, p7-14. --Dave ========================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library, Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 http://public.csusm.edu/dwalker ========================= -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Campbell Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:50 AM To: 'Web4Lib' Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Federated search products and FullText/PeerReviewlimiting I've been away and am just catching up on this interesting thread. One added point to the issue of links to titles that aren't available. It would be nice if the stats packages from the resolver vendors included a list of unavailable journals with data on how often they were requested and what years were needed. That would give libraries a chance to do something about the turnaways. Given that resolver use will never be a complete picture of journal use, data on what's not found really would be more useful than the data most resolvers now provide on what was found, though adding that useful feature would make life harder for the salespeople who could no longer just say "and of course we're fully COUNTER compliant" and go on to something more interesting. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From bollingers at cadl.org Tue Apr 25 10:52:30 2006 From: bollingers at cadl.org (Bollinger,Stephen) Date: Tue Apr 25 10:52:36 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: They do indeed store the patrons' e-mail addresses on their server. Since it is an opt-in service where the patron must knowingly subscribe on their own, this did not violate our privacy policy. The convenience and quality of the service would probably outweigh the inconvenience of amending your policy, if you indeed have to. Yours, -Steve Stephen Bollinger Internet Specialist CAPITAL AREA DISTRICT LIBRARY 401 South Capitol Avenue Lansing, MI 48901-7919 http://www.cadl.org/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:00 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org; ealyt@wtcpl.lib.oh.us Subject: RE: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Thanks Tyra. Many people have mentioned bookletters and I am looking into that as well. What a staff timesaver it appears to be! Just need to clarify who is storing the patron email addresses - bookletters or the library - anyone know? Many other newsletter services store your patron email addresses on their servers and I'm thinking that may conflict with our patron confidentiality and privacy policies. Lisa >>> "Tyra Ealy" 04/25/06 09:35AM >>> Have you checked out 'bookletters'? I don't know much about it, but have heard of other libraries using it. We're also investigating its potential. http://www.bookletters.com Tyra L. Ealy Computer Systems Manager Warren-Trumbull County Public Library 444 Mahoning Ave. NW Warren, OH 44483 330-399-8807, ext. 140 http://www.wtcpl.lib.oh.us/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:22 AM To: Karen.Harker@UTSouthwestern.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Unfortunately timelines for this project are extremely tight with little IT support available so I think blogging software is out, although I am looking at implementing blogs this summer for book clubs. The right enewsletter software will have a database that connects to our web site for subscriber addresses so patrons can subscribe/unsubscribe from our web site. thanks, Lisa >>> "Karen Harker" 04/24/06 01:21PM >>> >>> Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From MILLIKEL at neumann.edu Tue Apr 25 11:45:54 2006 From: MILLIKEL at neumann.edu (Lawrence Milliken) Date: Tue Apr 25 11:46:08 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Drupalib: a place for library druplers Message-ID: Thanks, Mark. I'll put this back on the list in case anyone else is interested. Plinkit looks great. Some similar ideas to those I'm working on. I have a very unoptimized very unofficial demo up at http://www.butterflysmack.com:9080/Plone . I'll have to see how Plinkit implemented their catalog search feature. Larry >>> Mark Jordan 04/25/06 11:11 AM >>> Hi Larry, I don't think this message went to the web4lib list... personally I don't know of any equivalent sites for plone. However, you may want to check out http://www.plinkit.org/, which is a plone implementation for a number of libraries in Oregon. Mark Lawrence Milliken wrote: > Hi All, > > This site looks really interesting. Does anyone know of something > similar for those of us working on Plone? > > Larry > > > > Larry Milliken > Reference Librarian > Neumann College Library > >>>> Mark Jordan 04/24/06 11:19 PM >>> > Hi, > > I've set up a website for people who are implementing, or who are > considering implementing, the Drupal Content Management System in > libraries. Drupalib (http://drupalib.interoperating.info/) is intended > > as a place for Drupal implementors to share ideas, configurations, > themes, and maybe even to incubate the development of some modules that > > allow commonly desired functionality in library websites. It's based > roughly on drupaled (http://drupaled.org/), and features a blog, a > forum, and a listing of drupal sites implemented by libraries. > > Mark > > Mark Jordan > Head of Library Systems > W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University > Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada > Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 > mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Lawrence Milliken > TEL;WORK:610-558-5541 > ORG:Neumann College;Library > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:MILLIKEL@neumann.edu > N:Milliken;Lawrence > TITLE:Reference Librarian > ADR;DOM;WORK;PARCEL;POSTAL:;;One Neumann Dr.;Aston;PA;19014 > LABEL;DOM;WORK;PARCEL;POSTAL;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:Lawrence Milliken=0A= > One Neumann Dr.=0A= > Aston, PA 19014 > END:VCARD > -- Mark Jordan Head of Library Systems W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada Phone (604) 291 5753 / Fax (604) 291 3023 mjordan@sfu.ca / http://www.sfu.ca/~mjordan/ From gsennema at wlu.ca Tue Apr 25 14:17:31 2006 From: gsennema at wlu.ca (Greg Sennema) Date: Tue Apr 25 14:17:47 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] opensource image software Message-ID: Whilst taking a look at Greenstone as a possible solution for a digital image collection, I realized that Flikr has some collaboration attributes that might be helpful to our project. Does anyone know of opensource software that would allow us to create and host an image database combining the metadata functionality of Greenstone or DSpace, the collaborative aspects of Flikr, and the customizability of WordPress? thanks greg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Greg Sennema / electronic services librarian Wilfrid Laurier University Library 75 University Ave. W. Waterloo, ON N2L 3C5 (p) 519-884-0710 x.2812 (f) 519-884-8023 (e) gsennema@wlu.ca http://library.wlu.ca/blogs/gsennema/ From daskey at ksu.edu Tue Apr 25 15:27:34 2006 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Tue Apr 25 15:27:38 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Keyword searching in Endeavor Voyager In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB7ED@priority.csusm.edu> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CDDB7ED@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <444E7826.3050001@ksu.edu> Delete this message if you don't use Endeavor Voyager for your ILS ... Heeding my own call for people to document what they're doing and share it around, I've posted instructions for fixing the keyword search in WebVoyage. Please take note of the origins of this script/fix, which was born at UCLA in 2004, modified thereafter by Yale, and again modified and extended by Harish Maringanti here at Kansas State. Instructions and code here: http://ksulib.typepad.com/did/2006/04/voyager_keyword.html A number of years ago, I heard Roy T give a speech on how nasty OPACs were (I'm sure many of us on this list have heard or read his excellent views on the subject), and the main thing that stuck with me was the post-processing of the query, i.e.- taking whatever the user has put in and using the intelligence of the system to make something coherent out of it. UCLA's work to fix the very deficient native Voyager keyword search was just such a thing. Dale -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com Tue Apr 25 16:30:21 2006 From: Louise.Alcorn at wdm-ia.com (Louise Alcorn) Date: Tue Apr 25 16:34:35 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Message-ID: <9361FF6DA66FD34FB64CD5C6589BFD0C031AA60C@citp1mx03.city.wdm.loc> As the patrons opt-in themselves, they are, to some extent, waiving the confidentiality they expect from the library. However, there is a disclaimer that they are given when they sign up, as I recall. Also, Bookletters' Privacy Policy is linked at the bottom of *every* email they get once they sign up. I can forward anyone a sample email, if they'd like to see. Louise =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Louise E. Alcorn Reference Technology Librarian West Des Moines Public Library 4000 Mills Civic Pkwy West Des Moines IA 50265 (515) 222-3573 louise.alcorn@wdm-ia.com http://www.wdmlibrary.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:00 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org; ealyt@wtcpl.lib.oh.us Subject: RE: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Thanks Tyra. Many people have mentioned bookletters and I am looking into that as well. What a staff timesaver it appears to be! Just need to clarify who is storing the patron email addresses - bookletters or the library - anyone know? Many other newsletter services store your patron email addresses on their servers and I'm thinking that may conflict with our patron confidentiality and privacy policies. Lisa >>> "Tyra Ealy" 04/25/06 09:35AM >>> Have you checked out 'bookletters'? I don't know much about it, but have heard of other libraries using it. We're also investigating its potential. http://www.bookletters.com Tyra L. Ealy Computer Systems Manager Warren-Trumbull County Public Library 444 Mahoning Ave. NW Warren, OH 44483 330-399-8807, ext. 140 http://www.wtcpl.lib.oh.us/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Manax Skikos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:22 AM To: Karen.Harker@UTSouthwestern.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] electronic library newsletter software Unfortunately timelines for this project are extremely tight with little IT support available so I think blogging software is out, although I am looking at implementing blogs this summer for book clubs. The right enewsletter software will have a database that connects to our web site for subscriber addresses so patrons can subscribe/unsubscribe from our web site. thanks, Lisa >>> "Karen Harker" 04/24/06 01:21PM >>> >>> Have you considered using blogging software (i.e. WordPress or MovableType)? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ >>> "Lisa Manax Skikos" 4/24/2006 11:55 AM >>> I am currently evaluating software options for our Public Library's new e-newsletters. We need a system that is easy-to-use, provides reports (# of emails opened, links clicked etc.), requires little IT dept. time and enables users to sign up from our web site. We were looking at RocketSales but people I've directly contacted are giving it mixed reviews. Does anyone else have experience with RocketSales or any other software? Any packages we should avoid? Thanks, Lisa Manax Skikos London Public Library _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From pferriby at muhlenberg.edu Wed Apr 26 11:05:55 2006 From: pferriby at muhlenberg.edu (Gavin Ferriby) Date: Wed Apr 26 11:13:55 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Systems & Electronic Resources position (Allentown, PA) Message-ID: Systems & Electronic Resources Librarian, Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA (Note: This is a good job in a good, reasonably affordable place to live.) *------------------------------------------------ The Systems Librarian guides and facilitates the automation activities of the library, and provides leadership in addressing the automation needs of both technical and public services. The incumbent provides overall administration of Innovative Interfaces, Inc's integrated library system (ILS), oversees the development and maintenance of the library's website, and provides support to library staff in the overall use of library automation, desktop applications, and WWW resources while participating in the library's decision-making process by contributing information, advice and expertise on emerging technologies. Characteristic Duties and Responsibilities: The span of responsibilities includes supporting and upgrading all modules of the ILS (III Millennium) as well as acting as liaison with III to solve problems and implement new services; supervising the loading and processing of electronic files such as those from Marcive, III, OCLC, SerialsSolutions and McNaughton; overseeing the development, maintenance and security of the library's website and assisting library staff in authoring, establishing and maintaining library webpages; collecting statistics on system and website usage; maintaining the government documents CD-ROM workstations; recommending and facilitating software and hardware upgrades, including those for OCLC's interlibrary loan and cataloging services and hardware upgrades to library PCs; maintaining an equipment inventory; and acting as the library's primary liaison with OCLC. The Systems Librarian will need to establish a collegial and productive working relationship with the Office of Information Technology (OIT). Qualifications: Graduate library degree from an ALA-accredited program, or equivalent. Minimum of 2 years post-MLS systems and automation experience in an academic library, or equivalent. Some knowledge of MARC21 format preferred. Experience with managing Innovative Interfaces, Inc., or other comparable automated library system, and knowledge of OCLC's products and services is essential. Familiarity with system architecture and database management. Knowledge of current versions of standard software applications such as Microsoft Office Suite and Novell networking. Demonstrated ability to communicate with a variety of constituents with varying degrees of automation expertise. Excellent written and oral communication skills. Other Elements: Additional preferred knowledge: awareness of PERL and Javascript enhancements to web pages, awareness of XML and current library metadata applications and evolving standards, awareness of Electronic Resource Management (ERM) applications, awareness of digital preservation issues. Knowledge of Linux. Experience with budgeting. Knowledge of the interdependent relationships of divisions within an academic library and the ability to provide guidance in selecting appropriate computer and electronic applications which will enhance the library's mission of providing reliable service to patrons and support the scholarly and research needs of the faculty and staff of the college. College: Muhlenberg College is a highly selective, private liberal arts college located on a beautiful campus at the end of Pennsylvania's third largest city. Close to a diverse downtown yet not far from the scenic countryside. Allentown is within easy driving distance of Philadelphia and New York City. Trexler Library houses a collection currently seeing a major shift from print storage to electronic access. The library, served by a staff of 16 employees, is an attractive, modern facility using Innovative Interfaces integrated library system. Visit our web page at . Classification: Manager. Full-time. Benefits as described in Muhlenberg College Trustees' Handbook for Managers. Salary: $48,000-$53,000 based on experience. Applications: Review of applications begins May 15. Address letter of interest to Martha Stevenson, Interim Library Director, Trexler Library, Muhlenberg College, 2400 Chew Street, Allentown, PA, 18104. Applications may be submitted electronically to msteven@muhlenberg.edu Muhlenberg College is an Equal Opportunity Employer. We encourage applications from candidates who can contribute to the diversity of our campus. From shipengj at oclc.org Wed Apr 26 12:44:16 2006 From: shipengj at oclc.org (Shipengrover,JD) Date: Wed Apr 26 12:45:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software Message-ID: Greg, I believe some folks are using Fedora Digital Repository System. This is a completely open source repository system, not to be confused with the Fedora Red Hat stuff. The URL is: http://www.fedora.info/ I know several groups are working on creating institutional repositories based on this system - it can take anything from images, to dissertations, to text files. You might want to take a look at what it has to offer. I have no personal knowledge of it, only second hand. Thought I would throw it out there as an idea. Good Luck -- JD Shipengrover ___________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:17:31 -0400 From: "Greg Sennema" Subject: [Web4lib] opensource image software To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Whilst taking a look at Greenstone as a possible solution for a digital image collection, I realized that Flikr has some collaboration attributes that might be helpful to our project. Does anyone know of opensource software that would allow us to create and host an image database combining the metadata functionality of Greenstone or DSpace, the collaborative aspects of Flikr, and the customizability of WordPress? thanks greg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Greg Sennema / electronic services librarian Wilfrid Laurier University Library 75 University Ave. W. Waterloo, ON N2L 3C5 (p) 519-884-0710 x.2812 (f) 519-884-8023 (e) gsennema@wlu.ca http://library.wlu.ca/blogs/gsennema/ From adam at media.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 26 13:47:49 2006 From: adam at media.berkeley.edu (Adam Hochman) Date: Wed Apr 26 13:47:58 2006 Subject: Fwd: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060426095739.0296f6b8@library.berkeley.edu> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060426095739.0296f6b8@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <444FB245.9020801@media.berkeley.edu> Hello, I am the product manager for bSpace Images, an image application for UC Berkeley's learning management system, bSpace, that will help users avoid recreating, rediscovering, redescribing, and reorganizing images many times over. Our initial focus is "personal collections" and will probably adopt some of the tagging concepts found in Flickr. We will use Fedora as our digital repository. bSpace Images long term goal is to offer the following features: course/lecture galleries, collection pools (like Flickr Groups), community sharing, slide show mechanism, federated search. ~Adam > > >> X-Original-To: web4lib@lists.webjunction.org >> Delivered-To: web4lib@lists.webjunction.org >> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:44:16 -0400 >> X-MS-Has-Attach: >> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: >> Thread-Topic: Open Source Image Repository Software >> Thread-Index: AcZpS3NC3eOubYWITqaTnLBJmomZpAABIIOQ >> From: "Shipengrover,JD" >> To: "web4lib" >> Cc: >> Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software >> X-BeenThere: web4lib@webjunction.org >> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >> List-Id: "An electronic discussion for library-based World-Wide Web >> managers." >> >> List-Unsubscribe: >> , >> >> List-Archive: >> List-Post: >> List-Help: >> List-Subscribe: , >> >> Sender: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by >> library.berkeley.edu id k3QGmQ33232464 >> >> Greg, >> >> I believe some folks are using Fedora Digital Repository System. >> This is a completely open source repository system, not to be confused >> with the Fedora Red Hat stuff. >> >> The URL is: http://www.fedora.info/ >> >> I know several groups are working on creating institutional repositories >> based on this system - it can take anything from images, to >> dissertations, to text files. >> >> You might want to take a look at what it has to offer. >> I have no personal knowledge of it, only second hand. >> Thought I would throw it out there as an idea. >> >> Good Luck >> -- JD Shipengrover >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:17:31 -0400 >> From: "Greg Sennema" >> Subject: [Web4lib] opensource image software >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> Whilst taking a look at Greenstone as a possible solution for a digital >> image collection, I realized that Flikr has some collaboration >> attributes that might be helpful to our project. Does anyone know of >> opensource software that would allow us to create and host an image >> database combining the metadata functionality of Greenstone or DSpace, >> the collaborative aspects of Flikr, and the customizability of >> WordPress? >> >> thanks >> greg >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Greg Sennema / electronic services librarian >> Wilfrid Laurier University Library >> 75 University Ave. W. Waterloo, ON N2L 3C5 >> (p) 519-884-0710 x.2812 >> (f) 519-884-8023 >> (e) gsennema@wlu.ca >> http://library.wlu.ca/blogs/gsennema/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > Karen Munro > E-Learning Librarian > University of California, Berkeley > Doe/Moffitt Libraries > Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 > kmunro@library.berkeley.edu > 510-643-1636 From pferriby at muhlenberg.edu Wed Apr 26 14:19:27 2006 From: pferriby at muhlenberg.edu (Gavin Ferriby) Date: Wed Apr 26 14:19:38 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Systems & Electronic Resources Librarian position (Allentown, PA) Message-ID: At: Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA (N.B. This is a good job in a reasonably affordable place good for raising children if you're so inclined.) ______________________________________________ The Systems Librarian guides and facilitates the automation activities of the library, and provides leadership in addressing the automation needs of both technical and public services. The incumbent provides overall administration of Innovative Interfaces, Inc's integrated library system (ILS), oversees the development and maintenance of the library's website, and provides support to library staff in the overall use of library automation, desktop applications, and WWW resources while participating in the library's decision-making process by contributing information, advice and expertise on emerging technologies. Characteristic Duties and Responsibilities: The span of responsibilities includes supporting and upgrading all modules of the ILS (III Millennium) as well as acting as liaison with III to solve problems and implement new services; supervising the loading and processing of electronic files such as those from Marcive, III, OCLC, SerialsSolutions and McNaughton; overseeing the development, maintenance and security of the library's website and assisting library staff in authoring, establishing and maintaining library webpages; collecting statistics on system and website usage; maintaining the government documents CD-ROM workstations; recommending and facilitating software and hardware upgrades, including those for OCLC's interlibrary loan and cataloging services and hardware upgrades to library PCs; maintaining an equipment inventory; and acting as the library's primary liaison with OCLC. The Systems Librarian will need to establish a collegial and productive working relationship with the Office of Information Technology (OIT). Qualifications: Graduate library degree from an ALA-accredited program, or equivalent. Minimum of 2 years post-MLS systems and automation experience in an academic library, or equivalent. Some knowledge of MARC21 format preferred. Experience with managing Innovative Interfaces, Inc., or other comparable automated library system, and knowledge of OCLC's products and services is essential. Familiarity with system architecture and database management. Knowledge of current versions of standard software applications such as Microsoft Office Suite and Novell networking. Demonstrated ability to communicate with a variety of constituents with varying degrees of automation expertise. Excellent written and oral communication skills. Other Elements: Additional preferred knowledge: awareness of PERL and Javascript enhancements to web pages, awareness of XML and current library metadata applications and evolving standards, awareness of Electronic Resource Management (ERM) applications, awareness of digital preservation issues. Knowledge of Linux. Experience with budgeting. Knowledge of the interdependent relationships of divisions within an academic library and the ability to provide guidance in selecting appropriate computer and electronic applications which will enhance the library's mission of providing reliable service to patrons and support the scholarly and research needs of the faculty and staff of the college. College: Muhlenberg College is a highly selective, private liberal arts college located on a beautiful campus at the end of Pennsylvania's third largest city. Close to a diverse downtown yet not far from the scenic countryside. Allentown is within easy driving distance of Philadelphia and New York City. Trexler Library houses a collection currently seeing a major shift from print storage to electronic access. The library, served by a staff of 16 employees, is an attractive, modern facility using Innovative Interfaces integrated library system. Visit our web page at . Classification: Manager. Full-time. Benefits as described in Muhlenberg College Trustees' Handbook for Managers. Salary: $48,000-$53,000 based on experience. Applications: Review of applications begins May 15. Address letter of interest to Martha Stevenson, Interim Library Director, Trexler Library, Muhlenberg College, 2400 Chew Street, Allentown, PA, 18104. Applications may be submitted electronically to msteven@muhlenberg.edu Muhlenberg College is an Equal Opportunity Employer. We encourage applications from candidates who can contribute to the diversity of our campus. From mgilman at dallaslibrary.org Wed Apr 26 15:39:06 2006 From: mgilman at dallaslibrary.org (Mark Gilman) Date: Wed Apr 26 15:39:03 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] putting flat files online.... Message-ID: I am currently researching means to enhance our library's web presence. Lack of a way to serve small databases, bedevils us. We have limited IT support and server access, which takes many an open source solution off the table (e.g. anything, such as Zope or Drupal that depend upon MySQL or PostGRE, etc.) If I could efficiently generate flat files as web pages linked together by subjects and other access points, that would suffice for many of our finding aids, such as this one: http://dallaslibrary.org/CHS/VideoFrame.htm I can imagine an application that would enable one to enter structured data and then export this as HTML or XML or something that would greatly speed the production of pages where the structure is simple. One could presumably figure a way to mimic a content management system by embedding the body of these pages within headers and footers created using server side includes or something along that line. Having said that, our web pages are mostly served from a Unix box, without support for Microsoft proprietary extensions. I can access PERL, but that's about it. To summarize: I'm looking for a way to efficiently generate flat files that can be linked together in ways that mimic a database. Any thoughts on what direction I might look in? I can imagine using a similar solution to maintain pathfinders with annotated links, etc. Regards, Mark Gilman Municipal Reference Librarian Urban Information Center Dallas Public Library 1515 Young St., 6th floor. Dallas, TX 75201 214-670-1482 http://dallaslibrary.org/cgi/cui.htm From adam at media.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 26 16:37:41 2006 From: adam at media.berkeley.edu (Adam Hochman) Date: Wed Apr 26 16:37:47 2006 Subject: Fwd: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software In-Reply-To: <20060426200115.90205.qmail@web52814.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060426200115.90205.qmail@web52814.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <444FDA15.5010300@media.berkeley.edu> Our site is public. http://confluence.media.berkeley.edu/confluence/display/BSPI/Home we have a *tentative* roadmap and timeline here http://confluence.media.berkeley.edu/confluence/display/BSPI/Road+Map http://confluence.media.berkeley.edu/confluence/display/BSPI/bSpace+Images+Pilot+Version+1.0 Kelly Green wrote: > Adam, > This sounds like a promising application -- I went to the ETS site for > UC Berkeley and was unable to find anything more than information for > instructors. > Where are you likely to share your progress with this program? > Thanks, > Kelly Green > > */Adam Hochman /* wrote: > > Hello, > I am the product manager for bSpace Images, an image application > for UC > Berkeley's learning management system, bSpace, that will help users > avoid recreating, rediscovering, redescribing, and reorganizing > images > many times over. Our initial focus is "personal collections" and will > probably adopt some of the tagging concepts found in Flickr. We will > use Fedora as our digital repository. bSpace Images long term goal is > to offer the following features: course/lecture galleries, collection > pools (like Flickr Groups), community sharing, slide show mechanism, > federated search. > ~Adam > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > > to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From tomkeays at gmail.com Wed Apr 26 20:22:20 2006 From: tomkeays at gmail.com (Tom Keays) Date: Wed Apr 26 20:22:22 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: putting flat files online.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60a2c0c00604261722s50b9fa3bq8b12032a2bf1067e@mail.gmail.com> If you can do cgi, then try out EZscripting's CSVread program. It reads data from a comma separated values text file and passes the results of searches (or filters as they call it) to the user via an html template. It works surprisingly well. http://www.ezscripting.com/csvread/ On 4/26/06, Mark Gilman wrote: > To summarize: I'm looking for a way to efficiently generate flat files that > can be linked together in ways that mimic a database. Any thoughts on what > direction I might look in? From carynlanderson at yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 01:14:05 2006 From: carynlanderson at yahoo.com (carynlanderson@yahoo.com) Date: Thu Apr 27 01:14:15 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Registration Open! - NEASIS&T Awards Dinner with PeterMorville Message-ID: Please excuse cross-postings REGISTRATION NOW OPEN! http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20060511.html NEASIS&T Awards Dinner with special guest Peter Morville "Ambient Findability" May 11 2006, 6-9pm MIT Faculty Club, 50 Memorial Drive (Building E52), Cambridge, MA Join us for a fabulous night of fine dining and fascinating discussion with Peter Morville, President and Founder of Semantic Studios, author of "Ambient Findability" and co-author of "Information Architecture and the World Wide Web." Peter will speak on Ambient Findability: "At the crossroads of ubiquitous computing and the Internet, the user experience is out of control, and findability is the real story. Access changes the game. We can select our sources and choose our news. We can find who and what we need, when and where we want. As society shifts from push to pull, findability shapes who we trust, how we learn, and where we go. In this cyberspace safari, Peter Morville explores the future present in search algorithms, embedded metadata, ontologies, folksonomies, mobile devices, findable objects, evolutionary psychology, and the long tail of the sociosemantic web." Presentation followed by discussion. Register now! Space is limited and prices increase after May 1. $40 for Non-members ($50 after May 1) $30 for ASIS&T members and significant others ($40 after May 1) $20 for students/retirees/between jobs ($30 after May 1) Price includes: Reception (1 cocktail included in price) Three-course gourmet dinner Awards ceremony Peter Morville presentation and discussion * Space is limited and there is no "talk only" registration available. REGISTER NOW: http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20060511.html Subscribe to the RSS feed from the NEASIST Events Blog for updates: http://www.neasist.org/events/ -- Caryn Anderson Program Coordinator PhD in Managerial Leadership in the Information Professions GSLIS, Simmons College 300 The Fenway, P-204E Boston, MA 02115 caryn.anderson@simmons.edu 617.521.2829 http://www.simmons.edu/gslis/phdmlip __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:93EA620C3839387350417FE2D8147001 From arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu Thu Apr 27 08:39:12 2006 From: arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu (Arjun Sabharwal) Date: Thu Apr 27 08:39:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] FW: Thanks for helping to save the Internet Message-ID: Hello, My apologies for cross-posting. -- Arjun Sabharwal ******************************************************** Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:24:10 -0600 From: Christopher Schipper Subject: FW: Thanks for helping to save the Internet! Subject: Congress is selling out the Internet Hi, Do you buy books online, use Google, or download to an Ipod? These activities will be hurt if Congress passes a radical law that gives giant corporations more control over the Internet. Internet providers like AT&T and Verizon are lobbying Congress hard to gut Network Neutrality, the Internet's First Amendment. Net Neutrality prevents AT&T from choosing which websites open most easily for you based on which site pays AT&T more. Amazon.com doesn't have to outbid Barnes & Noble for the right to work more properly on your computer. Politicians don't think we are paying attention to this issue. Many of them take campaign checks from big telecom companies and are on the verge of selling out to people like AT&T's CEO, who openly says, "The internet can't be free." The free and open Internet is under seige--can you sign this petition letting your member of Congress know you support preserving Network Neutrality? Click here: http://www.civic.moveon.org/save_the_internet A list of all the ways you might be affected by Net Neutrality is located on the bottom of this link: http://civic.moveon.org/alerts/savetheinternet.html Thanks!=20 From leo at leoklein.com Thu Apr 27 10:01:43 2006 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Thu Apr 27 10:01:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] FW: Thanks for helping to save the Internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4450CEC7.7070805@leoklein.com> Basically this is about all content being treated equally and no preference given to one source over the other. If they want to speed up video, fine. If they just want to speed up video from Disney or the Home Shopping Network, then they've got another thing coming. In such a Brave New World of content discrimination, you can just imagine how Libraries would fare. On the House side the bill just got voted out of Committee with the "Net Neutrality" Amendment being voted down unfortunately. The focus now is shifting to the floor of the House and the equivalent Bill making its way through the Senate. Some good sites on this are: http://www.savetheinternet.com/ http://freepress.net/ http://www.publicknowledge.org/ LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com Arjun Sabharwal wrote: > Hello, > > My apologies for cross-posting. > > -- Arjun Sabharwal > ******************************************************** > Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:24:10 -0600 > From: Christopher Schipper > Subject: FW: Thanks for helping to save the Internet! > > Subject: Congress is selling out the Internet > > Hi, > > Do you buy books online, use Google, or download to an Ipod? > These > activities will be hurt if Congress passes a radical law > that gives > giant corporations more control over the Internet. > From brad.eden at unlv.edu Thu Apr 27 10:05:15 2006 From: brad.eden at unlv.edu (brad.eden@unlv.edu) Date: Thu Apr 27 10:04:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Book on FRBR: information, research, case studies wanted Message-ID: Sorry for duplicate postings. Please forward to related lists and interested colleagues. I will be writing a _Library Technology Report_ due in September on the Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records, or FRBR. I have done quite a bit of research and study for this, and am now asking the library community to help in making sure that I am able to include as much as possible on current information, research, and case studies of implementations that have incorporated or use the FRBR model. I would appreciate any and all assistance in this. Please send this information to me at the email address below; please do not reply to this email message. Thanks. Brad Eden, Ph.D. Associate University Librarian for Technical Services and Scholarly Communication University of California, Santa Barbara eden@library.ucsb.edu From Walt.Crawford at rlg.org Thu Apr 27 10:32:21 2006 From: Walt.Crawford at rlg.org (Walt.Crawford@rlg.org) Date: Thu Apr 27 10:36:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Cites & Insights 6:7 available Message-ID: Cites & Insights vol. 6 no. 7, May 2006, is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ6i7.pdf The 22-page issue (PDF as usual, but each section is downloadable in HTML from the home page, cites.boisestate.edu/) includes: * Perspective: Books, Blogs & Style - some notes (mine and others') on how books and blogs do and don't work together, including "blooks." * Following Up and Feedback * Trends, Quick Takes & Good Stuff - five trends, two quicker takes, and two article comments. * Bibs & Blather - tweaking the sections, YBP Academia & C&I, two resources you should be aware of, and tentative plans for the next four issues. * Library Access to Scholarship - almost half the issue, covering six months. * Perspective: You Just Can't Comprehend - possibly off-topic, possibly not. From R.Brownlee at library.usyd.edu.au Thu Apr 27 17:19:57 2006 From: R.Brownlee at library.usyd.edu.au (Rowan Brownlee) Date: Thu Apr 27 17:20:08 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software Message-ID: <1146172797.4451357dcd0be@www-mail.usyd.edu.au> No - but if you might be interested in aspects of the iSpheres project - developed at the University of Sydney. http://www.ispheres.org/ "ISpheres provide a distributed interoperable solution to serving a range of data - from images, sound, video and text to databases and GIS datasets. Each ISphere can manage several heterogeneous collections of digital objects, translate metadata specific to each collection into a common interoperable format, and serve digital objects transformed as required by the requesting application. ISpheres include their own web services, so they can be installed on any Internet-connected computer with the Java runtime, making their digital object collections discoverable, searchable, transformable and downloadable. Individual ISpheres are registered with a global directory at www.ispheres.org, making them and their collections discoverable. Any ISphere can search and retrieve data from any other ISphere (subject to authorisation) and present the results in an integrated list of resources, as well as serving data on-demand to client applications. Communication with an iSphere is through SOAP/XML." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Greg Sennema gsennema at wlu.ca Tue Apr 25 14:17:31 EDT 2006 Whilst taking a look at Greenstone as a possible solution for a digital image collection, I realized that Flikr has some collaboration attributes that might be helpful to our project. Does anyone know of opensource software that would allow us to create and host an image database combining the metadata functionality of Greenstone or DSpace, the collaborative aspects of Flikr, and the customizability of WordPress? thanks greg -- Rowan Brownlee Digital Repository Project Analyst Innovation and Development Unit Level 4, Fisher Library Camperdown Campus University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia Phone +61 2 9036 6450 Fax +61 2 9351 3689 Email r.brownlee@library.usyd.edu.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie Fri Apr 28 05:06:25 2006 From: jfitzgibbon at Galwaylibrary.ie (John Fitzgibbon) Date: Fri Apr 28 05:06:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public Message-ID: Hi, We have received a grant from the government to install colour laser printers on the networks for the public. In our libraries, we charge for printing. Heretofore, we only provided black and white copies. Now that we have the option of colour the issue of charging different rates arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, yellow, and black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as for a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white printing? We are only interested in recovering the cost of printing, not the cost of the printer. Secondly, when a user clicks on print, we would like them to be given the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any software that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go into properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always remember to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for this oversight. In many of our libraries, the printer is at the circulation desk. The user goes to the circulation desk to receive their copies. This means that we do not need a print server solution. In our larger libraries we use LPT1. Is there cheap software that will simply prompt the user to choose colour or black and white copies? Regards John ******************************************************************* Tá eolas atá príobháideach agus rúnda sa ríomhphost seo agus aon iatán a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amháin a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. Mura seolaí thú, níl tú údaraithe an ríomhphost nó aon iatán a ghabhann leis a léamh, a chóipáil ná a úsáid. Má tá an ríomhphost seo faighte agat trí dhearmad, cuir an seoltóir ar an eolas thrí aischur ríomhphoist agus scrios ansin é le do thoil. This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. ********************************************************************* From pshapiro at his.com Fri Apr 28 09:09:09 2006 From: pshapiro at his.com (Phil Shapiro) Date: Fri Apr 28 09:09:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] what would an ideal library look like? Message-ID: <1146229749.445213f5b3c9c@webmail.his.com> hi everyone - when google released the free version of sketchup, a 3D modeling program, i couldn't help but think this might be an excellent tool for youth and adults to describe the ideal library they would like to use. what shape would this library be in? and what services would be offered in the different rooms of the library? http://sketchup.google.com what could we as library practioners learn from the imaginations of those who use our libraries? and how would the people who use our libraries feel about themselves if we asked them for their ideas? phil shapiro washington dc see also http://www.his.com/pshapiro/communitycontent.html i'm thrilled to see that google has created a 3D Warehouse for 3D sketchup images to reside. will the library community be one of the first communities to populate that warehouse? is our community a creative leader or a follower? -- Phil Shapiro pshapiro@his.com http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/pshapiro http://philsrssfeed.blogspot.com http://www.his.com/pshapiro/stories.menu.html "Wisdom starts with wonder." - Socrates "Learning happens through gentleness." From bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us Fri Apr 28 09:44:39 2006 From: bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us (Bill Teschek) Date: Fri Apr 28 09:44:54 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4451E407.483.68E6FCF@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> John, One solution would be to have two printers available for printing -- one being your new color printer and the other being a plain B&W. Make the B&W the default printer, but have the color also available so that people wanting to use it can select it from the print dialog box. That way you are less likely to have people printing in color by mistake. You can even put the price of the copies in the printer name so that they will know what they are getting into when they select a printer. We charge 10 cents for B&W copies and 25 for color at our library, but have never done any kind of cost study. I'd be interested to learn if someone has. Bill Teschek Assistant Director Lane Memorial Library 2 Academy Ave. Hampton, NH 03842 603.926.3368 bteschek@hampton.lib.nh.us John Fitzgibbon wrote: > Hi, > > We have received a grant from the government to install colour laser > printers on the networks for the public. In our libraries, we charge for > printing. Heretofore, we only provided black and white copies. Now that > we have the option of colour the issue of charging different rates > arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, yellow, and > black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This > presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the > use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. > We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as for > a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour > printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white > printing? We are only interested in recovering the cost of printing, not > the cost of the printer. > > Secondly, when a user clicks on print, we would like them to be given > the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any software > that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go into > properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always remember > to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for this > oversight. In many of our libraries, the printer is at the circulation > desk. The user goes to the circulation desk to receive their copies. > This means that we do not need a print server solution. In our larger > libraries we use LPT1. Is there cheap software that will simply prompt > the user to choose colour or black and white copies? > > Regards > John > > ******************************************************************* > T eolas at probhideach agus rnda sa romhphost seo > agus aon iatn a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine > sin amhin a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. > Mura seola th, nl t daraithe an romhphost n aon iatn > a ghabhann leis a lamh, a chipil n a sid. > M t an romhphost seo faighte agat tr dhearmad, > cuir an seoltir ar an eolas thr aischur romhphoist > agus scrios ansin le do thoil. > > This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is > private and confidential and is intended for the addressee > only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised > to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. > If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify > the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. > ********************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From michele.haytko at gmail.com Fri Apr 28 10:32:14 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Fri Apr 28 10:32:19 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public In-Reply-To: <4451E407.483.68E6FCF@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> References: <4451E407.483.68E6FCF@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> Message-ID: <15e475fa0604280732tbdf1d05od9f366f3472bd7b@mail.gmail.com> While we only have a B/W printer, a few months back, I posted a similiar "what do you charge" question and remember being amazed at the costs. B/W averaged 10-20c a page, but colors averaged $1-$1.50 a page. I remember someone replied that their colors were $3 per page! Hope this helps, ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Fri Apr 28 11:35:58 2006 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri Apr 28 11:36:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public In-Reply-To: <4451E407.483.68E6FCF@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> Message-ID: <000801c66ad9$724b9000$3856df80@library.uoregon.edu> Our campus recently looked a bit at charges for printing across campus labs. We found that on our own campus there is a very wide range of charges, from free to quite expensive. Correspondingly there is a range of reasons given for the chosen charges, from cost recovery to saving trees to subsidizing particular instructional uses of printing or using low cost printing as a way to attract users to other services. Those units who use cost recovery as a criterion report widely different prices, suggesting that the details of what printer you choose, what your volume is, how you account for maintenance and support, and how you manage the service can have a big impact on your actual costs. Costs for b&w printing have been fairly stable for several years, but the cost of color printing and copying is falling quite quickly, mostly due to economies of scale and reductions in fixed costs rather than cost per page. Note that if you are doing color printing you may also want to consider various specialized color printing services (large formats, transparencies, glossy stock, etc.) which often have wildly different costs. Also, toner costs vary widely depending on type of print job -- a web page with 5% spot color is very different from a full page photo. You might also look at commercial providers for insight. Our local Kinko's charges $.08 for single sided b&w on 8.5"x11" plain paper, and $.89 for single sided color. I believe that most universities can get their actual costs down substantially below that for color, but I suspect the differential between mono and color is currently more like 5x than the proposed 3x. JQ Johnson, Director Office: 115F Knight Library Center for Educational Technologies mailto:jqj@uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon phone: 1-541-346-1746; -3485 fax Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj/ From cbailey at uh.edu Fri Apr 28 11:41:59 2006 From: cbailey at uh.edu (Charles W. Bailey, Jr.) Date: Fri Apr 28 11:42:07 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Version 62, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography Message-ID: <445237C7.4020309@uh.edu> Version 62 of the Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography is now available. This selective bibliography presents over 2,680 articles, books, and other printed and electronic sources that are useful in understanding scholarly electronic publishing efforts on the Internet. http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepb.html http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepb.pdf The Open Access Bibliography: Liberating Scholarly Literature with E-Prints and Open Access Journals, by the same author, provides much more in-depth coverage of the open access movement and related topics (e.g., disciplinary archives, e-prints, institutional repositories, open access journals, and the Open Archives Initiative) than SEPB does. http://www.digital-scholarship.com/oab/oab.htm The Open Access Webliography (with Ho) complements the OAB, providing access to a number of Websites related to open access topics. http://www.digital-scholarship.com/cwb/oaw.htm Changes in This Version The bibliography has the following sections (revised sections are marked with an asterisk): Table of Contents 1 Economic Issues 2 Electronic Books and Texts 2.1 Case Studies and History* 2.2 General Works* 2.3 Library Issues 3 Electronic Serials 3.1 Case Studies and History* 3.2 Critiques 3.3 Electronic Distribution of Printed Journals* 3.4 General Works 3.5 Library Issues* 3.6 Research* 4 General Works* 5 Legal Issues 5.1 Intellectual Property Rights* 5.2 License Agreements 5.3 Other Legal Issues 6 Library Issues 6.1 Cataloging, Identifiers, Linking, and Metadata* 6.2 Digital Libraries* 6.3 General Works* 6.4 Information Integrity and Preservation* 7 New Publishing Models* 8 Publisher Issues* 8.1 Digital Rights Management* 9 Repositories, E-Prints, and OAI* Appendix A. Related Bibliographies Appendix B. About the Author Appendix C. SEPB Use Statistics* Scholarly Electronic Publishing Resources includes the following sections: Cataloging, Identifiers, Linking, and Metadata Digital Libraries Electronic Books and Texts Electronic Serials* General Electronic Publishing* Images* Legal Preservation Publishers Repositories, E-Prints, and OAI* SGML and Related Standards Further Information about SEPB The HTML version of SEPB is designed for interactive use. Each major section is a separate file. There are links to sources that are freely available on the Internet. It can be can be searched using Boolean operators. The HTML document includes three sections not found in the Acrobat file: (1) Scholarly Electronic Publishing Weblog (biweekly list of new resources; also available by mailing list--see second URL--and RSS Feed--see third URL) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepw.htm http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepwlist.htm http://feeds.feedburner.com/ScholarlyElectronicPublishingWeblogrss (2) Scholarly Electronic Publishing Resources (directory of over 270 related Web sites) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepr.htm (3) Archive (prior versions of the bibliography) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/archive/sepa.htm The Acrobat file is designed for printing. The printed bibliography is over 220 pages long. The Acrobat file is over 580 KB. Related Article An article about the bibliography has been published in The Journal of Electronic Publishing: http://www.press.umich.edu/jep/07-02/bailey.html -- Best Regards, Charles Charles W. Bailey, Jr., Assistant Dean for Digital Library Planning and Development, University of Houston Libraries E-Mail: cbailey@digital-scholarship.com Publications: http://www.digital-scholarship.com/ (Provides access to DigitalKoans, Open Access Bibliography, Open Access Webliography, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Weblog, and others) From stetter at mpc.edu Fri Apr 28 13:25:30 2006 From: stetter at mpc.edu (Stephanie Tetter) Date: Fri Apr 28 13:28:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 24[Scanned] Message-ID: We charge 10 cents per page for B/W - we don't provide color printing in the library but it is available downstairs in the English & Study Skills Center for 50 cents per page. We charge the same for B/W and color photocopies. We use GoPrint and use the same cards for both Xerox copy machines and printers. GoPrint can be used with different prices at different printers... http:/www.goprint.com Stephanie Tetter Electronic Resources/Instruction Librarian Monterey Peninsula College 831.646.4082 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of web4lib-request@webjunction.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:00 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 24[Scanned] Send Web4lib mailing list submissions to web4lib@webjunction.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.webjunction.org/mailman/listinfo/web4lib or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to web4lib-request@webjunction.org You can reach the person managing the list at web4lib-owner@webjunction.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Web4lib digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Open Source Image Repository Software (Rowan Brownlee) 2. managing colour printing by the public (John Fitzgibbon) 3. what would an ideal library look like? (Phil Shapiro) 4. Re: managing colour printing by the public (Bill Teschek) 5. Re: managing colour printing by the public (Michele Haytko) 6. RE: managing colour printing by the public (jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu) 7. Version 62, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography (Charles W. Bailey, Jr.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:19:57 +1000 From: Rowan Brownlee Subject: [Web4lib] RE: Open Source Image Repository Software To: web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: <1146172797.4451357dcd0be@www-mail.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 No - but if you might be interested in aspects of the iSpheres project - developed at the University of Sydney. http://www.ispheres.org/ "ISpheres provide a distributed interoperable solution to serving a range of data - from images, sound, video and text to databases and GIS datasets. Each ISphere can manage several heterogeneous collections of digital objects, translate metadata specific to each collection into a common interoperable format, and serve digital objects transformed as required by the requesting application. ISpheres include their own web services, so they can be installed on any Internet-connected computer with the Java runtime, making their digital object collections discoverable, searchable, transformable and downloadable. Individual ISpheres are registered with a global directory at www.ispheres.org, making them and their collections discoverable. Any ISphere can search and retrieve data from any other ISphere (subject to authorisation) and present the results in an integrated list of resources, as well as serving data on-demand to client applications. Communication with an iSphere is through SOAP/XML." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Greg Sennema gsennema at wlu.ca Tue Apr 25 14:17:31 EDT 2006 Whilst taking a look at Greenstone as a possible solution for a digital image collection, I realized that Flikr has some collaboration attributes that might be helpful to our project. Does anyone know of opensource software that would allow us to create and host an image database combining the metadata functionality of Greenstone or DSpace, the collaborative aspects of Flikr, and the customizability of WordPress? thanks greg -- Rowan Brownlee Digital Repository Project Analyst Innovation and Development Unit Level 4, Fisher Library Camperdown Campus University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia Phone +61 2 9036 6450 Fax +61 2 9351 3689 Email r.brownlee@library.usyd.edu.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:06:25 +0100 From: John Fitzgibbon Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public To: web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, We have received a grant from the government to install colour laser printers on the networks for the public. In our libraries, we charge for printing. Heretofore, we only provided black and white copies. Now that we have the option of colour the issue of charging different rates arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, yellow, and black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as for a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white printing? We are only interested in recovering the cost of printing, not the cost of the printer. Secondly, when a user clicks on print, we would like them to be given the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any software that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go into properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always remember to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for this oversight. In many of our libraries, the printer is at the circulation desk. The user goes to the circulation desk to receive their copies. This means that we do not need a print server solution. In our larger libraries we use LPT1. Is there cheap software that will simply prompt the user to choose colour or black and white copies? Regards John ******************************************************************* T? eolas at? pr?obh?ideach agus r?nda sa r?omhphost seo agus aon iat?n a ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amh?in a bhfuil siad seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. Mura seola? th?, n?l t? ?daraithe an r?omhphost n? aon iat?n a ghabhann leis a l?amh, a ch?ip?il n? a ?s?id. M? t? an r?omhphost seo faighte agat tr? dhearmad, cuir an seolt?ir ar an eolas thr? aischur r?omhphoist agus scrios ansin ? le do thoil. This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:09:09 -0400 From: Phil Shapiro Subject: [Web4lib] what would an ideal library look like? To: "" Message-ID: <1146229749.445213f5b3c9c@webmail.his.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hi everyone - when google released the free version of sketchup, a 3D modeling program, i couldn't help but think this might be an excellent tool for youth and adults to describe the ideal library they would like to use. what shape would this library be in? and what services would be offered in the different rooms of the library? http://sketchup.google.com what could we as library practioners learn from the imaginations of those who use our libraries? and how would the people who use our libraries feel about themselves if we asked them for their ideas? phil shapiro washington dc see also http://www.his.com/pshapiro/communitycontent.html i'm thrilled to see that google has created a 3D Warehouse for 3D sketchup images to reside. will the library community be one of the first communities to populate that warehouse? is our community a creative leader or a follower? -- Phil Shapiro pshapiro@his.com http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/pshapiro http://philsrssfeed.blogspot.com http://www.his.com/pshapiro/stories.menu.html "Wisdom starts with wonder." - Socrates "Learning happens through gentleness." ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:44:39 -0400 From: "Bill Teschek" Subject: Re: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public To: web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: <4451E407.483.68E6FCF@bteschek.hampton.lib.nh.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII John, One solution would be to have two printers available for printing -- one being your new color printer and the other being a plain B&W. Make the B&W the default printer, but have the color also available so that people wanting to use it can select it from the print dialog box. That way you are less likely to have people printing in color by mistake. You can even put the price of the copies in the printer name so that they will know what they are getting into when they select a printer. We charge 10 cents for B&W copies and 25 for color at our library, but have never done any kind of cost study. I'd be interested to learn if someone has. Bill Teschek Assistant Director Lane Memorial Library 2 Academy Ave. Hampton, NH 03842 603.926.3368 bteschek@hampton.lib.nh.us John Fitzgibbon wrote: > Hi, > > We have received a grant from the government to install colour laser > printers on the networks for the public. In our libraries, we charge > for printing. Heretofore, we only provided black and white copies. Now > that we have the option of colour the issue of charging different > rates arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, > yellow, and > black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This > presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the > use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. > We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as > for a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour > printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white > printing? We are only interested in recovering the cost of printing, > not the cost of the printer. > > Secondly, when a user clicks on print, we would like them to be given > the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any > software that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go > into properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always > remember to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for > this oversight. In many of our libraries, the printer is at the > circulation desk. The user goes to the circulation desk to receive their copies. > This means that we do not need a print server solution. In our larger > libraries we use LPT1. Is there cheap software that will simply prompt > the user to choose colour or black and white copies? > > Regards > John > > ******************************************************************* > T eolas at probhideach agus rnda sa romhphost seo agus aon iatn a > ghabhann leis agus is leis an duine/na daoine sin amhin a bhfuil siad > seolta chucu a bhaineann siad. > Mura seola th, nl t daraithe an romhphost n aon iatn a ghabhann leis a > lamh, a chipil n a sid. > M t an romhphost seo faighte agat tr dhearmad, cuir an seoltir ar an > eolas thr aischur romhphoist agus scrios ansin le do thoil. > > This e-mail and any attachment contains information which is private > and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are > not an addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the > e-mail or any attachment. > If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by > return e-mail and then destroy it. > ********************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:32:14 -0400 From: "Michele Haytko" Subject: Re: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public To: Web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: <15e475fa0604280732tbdf1d05od9f366f3472bd7b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed While we only have a B/W printer, a few months back, I posted a similiar "what do you charge" question and remember being amazed at the costs. B/W averaged 10-20c a page, but colors averaged $1-$1.50 a page. I remember someone replied that their colors were $3 per page! Hope this helps, ~michele~ -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:35:58 -0700 From: Subject: RE: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public To: Message-ID: <000801c66ad9$724b9000$3856df80@library.uoregon.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Our campus recently looked a bit at charges for printing across campus labs. We found that on our own campus there is a very wide range of charges, from free to quite expensive. Correspondingly there is a range of reasons given for the chosen charges, from cost recovery to saving trees to subsidizing particular instructional uses of printing or using low cost printing as a way to attract users to other services. Those units who use cost recovery as a criterion report widely different prices, suggesting that the details of what printer you choose, what your volume is, how you account for maintenance and support, and how you manage the service can have a big impact on your actual costs. Costs for b&w printing have been fairly stable for several years, but the cost of color printing and copying is falling quite quickly, mostly due to economies of scale and reductions in fixed costs rather than cost per page. Note that if you are doing color printing you may also want to consider various specialized color printing services (large formats, transparencies, glossy stock, etc.) which often have wildly different costs. Also, toner costs vary widely depending on type of print job -- a web page with 5% spot color is very different from a full page photo. You might also look at commercial providers for insight. Our local Kinko's charges $.08 for single sided b&w on 8.5"x11" plain paper, and $.89 for single sided color. I believe that most universities can get their actual costs down substantially below that for color, but I suspect the differential between mono and color is currently more like 5x than the proposed 3x. JQ Johnson, Director Office: 115F Knight Library Center for Educational Technologies mailto:jqj@uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon phone: 1-541-346-1746; -3485 fax Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj/ ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:41:59 -0500 From: "Charles W. Bailey, Jr." Subject: [Web4lib] Version 62, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography To: web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: <445237C7.4020309@uh.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Version 62 of the Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography is now available. This selective bibliography presents over 2,680 articles, books, and other printed and electronic sources that are useful in understanding scholarly electronic publishing efforts on the Internet. http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepb.html http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepb.pdf The Open Access Bibliography: Liberating Scholarly Literature with E-Prints and Open Access Journals, by the same author, provides much more in-depth coverage of the open access movement and related topics (e.g., disciplinary archives, e-prints, institutional repositories, open access journals, and the Open Archives Initiative) than SEPB does. http://www.digital-scholarship.com/oab/oab.htm The Open Access Webliography (with Ho) complements the OAB, providing access to a number of Websites related to open access topics. http://www.digital-scholarship.com/cwb/oaw.htm Changes in This Version The bibliography has the following sections (revised sections are marked with an asterisk): Table of Contents 1 Economic Issues 2 Electronic Books and Texts 2.1 Case Studies and History* 2.2 General Works* 2.3 Library Issues 3 Electronic Serials 3.1 Case Studies and History* 3.2 Critiques 3.3 Electronic Distribution of Printed Journals* 3.4 General Works 3.5 Library Issues* 3.6 Research* 4 General Works* 5 Legal Issues 5.1 Intellectual Property Rights* 5.2 License Agreements 5.3 Other Legal Issues 6 Library Issues 6.1 Cataloging, Identifiers, Linking, and Metadata* 6.2 Digital Libraries* 6.3 General Works* 6.4 Information Integrity and Preservation* 7 New Publishing Models* 8 Publisher Issues* 8.1 Digital Rights Management* 9 Repositories, E-Prints, and OAI* Appendix A. Related Bibliographies Appendix B. About the Author Appendix C. SEPB Use Statistics* Scholarly Electronic Publishing Resources includes the following sections: Cataloging, Identifiers, Linking, and Metadata Digital Libraries Electronic Books and Texts Electronic Serials* General Electronic Publishing* Images* Legal Preservation Publishers Repositories, E-Prints, and OAI* SGML and Related Standards Further Information about SEPB The HTML version of SEPB is designed for interactive use. Each major section is a separate file. There are links to sources that are freely available on the Internet. It can be can be searched using Boolean operators. The HTML document includes three sections not found in the Acrobat file: (1) Scholarly Electronic Publishing Weblog (biweekly list of new resources; also available by mailing list--see second URL--and RSS Feed--see third URL) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepw.htm http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepwlist.htm http://feeds.feedburner.com/ScholarlyElectronicPublishingWeblogrss (2) Scholarly Electronic Publishing Resources (directory of over 270 related Web sites) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepr.htm (3) Archive (prior versions of the bibliography) http://epress.lib.uh.edu/sepb/archive/sepa.htm The Acrobat file is designed for printing. The printed bibliography is over 220 pages long. The Acrobat file is over 580 KB. Related Article An article about the bibliography has been published in The Journal of Electronic Publishing: http://www.press.umich.edu/jep/07-02/bailey.html -- Best Regards, Charles Charles W. Bailey, Jr., Assistant Dean for Digital Library Planning and Development, University of Houston Libraries E-Mail: cbailey@digital-scholarship.com Publications: http://www.digital-scholarship.com/ (Provides access to DigitalKoans, Open Access Bibliography, Open Access Webliography, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Weblog, and others) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ End of Web4lib Digest, Vol 13, Issue 24 *************************************** From djones at scu.edu Fri Apr 28 13:49:38 2006 From: djones at scu.edu (David Jones) Date: Fri Apr 28 13:49:56 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public Message-ID: >>> "Bill Teschek" 4/28/2006 6:44 AM >>> We charge 10 cents for B&W copies and 25 for color at our library <<< We have the same setup - B&W by default, colour as an option. B&W are a mix of LJ4050 & LJ8150. Colour is a Dell 5100CN. They are clearly labeled in Windows XP as being either B&W or Color printers after their room names. Our charges, though, are 8 cents & 25 cents. We haven't had colour long enough for a cost comparison, but the colour toner cartridges are expensive enough to justify it, IMO. The black toner cartridges in the colour printer, though, are considerably less expensive than those in our B&W printers. Our students get $16 credits each quarter to cover the first 200 B&W, 64 colour or whatever mix. Photocopies are handled by the same ID card and are also 8 cents. We don't offer colour copiers. AFAIK, we have not broken even on printing when you factor in the systems, support & supplies. We really implemented this to cut down on waste, not to make money. We use Pharos Uniprint to control all of this... HTH, David _____________________________________________________________________ David Jones mailto:djones@scu.edu Library Systems Manager http://www.scu.edu/library/ University Library fax: 408-551-1805 Santa Clara University phone: 408-551-7167 500 El Camino Real Santa Clara CA 95053-0500 _____________________________________________________________________ Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick This message scanned for viruses and SPAM by GWGuardian at SCU (MGW1) From dan at riverofdata.com Fri Apr 28 14:17:07 2006 From: dan at riverofdata.com (dan@riverofdata.com) Date: Fri Apr 28 14:22:49 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public Message-ID: <20060428181707.13030.qmail@ns2.webmasters.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fitzgibbon jfitzgibbon@Galwaylibrary.ie > we have the option of colour the issue of charging different rates > arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, yellow, and > black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This > presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the > use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. Actually, it will use much MORE than four times the toner. Why? Many of the things they'll print in color are images which require toner to cover the whole paper. In typical black and white text it is about five percent coverage with toner. Also, almost all printing will require multiple colors. It would be rare indeed for many of the things to be printed to be exactly one of those four colors. Out of sixteen million colors, you've got only four of them there. Sure, an ocean picture will be mostly blue, but not JUST the one color of blue. > We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as for > a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour > printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white > printing? Check with your local printing businesses that do walkin copying or printing. My observations are that it is more like ten times the cost. On our campus the color printing is from fifty to seventy five cents, depending on what printer in what location. Regular laser printing is five cents per page, seven cents if printed duplex. > the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any software > that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go into > properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always remember > to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for this > oversight. Make it default to black and white, which should be a standard option in the printer setup. Then let the ones who want color make the change. dan (Boise State U, Boise ID) From cmurdock at ccfls.org Fri Apr 28 14:24:07 2006 From: cmurdock at ccfls.org (Cindy Murdock) Date: Fri Apr 28 14:24:25 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] managing colour printing by the public In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44525DC7.2050703@ccfls.org> Sometimes you can also have the same printer set up twice on each computer; configure the default printer as b&w, and the second instance of it as color, so that could be chosen if the patron so desires. Cindy -- _________________________ Cindy Murdock Network Administrator Meadville Public Library | Crawford County Federated Library System meadvillelibrary.org | ccfls.org From nsmith at email.unc.edu Fri Apr 28 14:27:37 2006 From: nsmith at email.unc.edu (Natasha Smith) Date: Fri Apr 28 14:30:01 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Position announcement: Head of the Carolina Digital Library Message-ID: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill seeks a skilled and energetic person to lead the Carolina Digital Library which includes significant efforts in institutional repositories, shared resources and objects as well as scientific databases and collections. The Head of the Carolina Digital Library will have the opportunity to lead in the creation of a major new library department composed of three units: the award-winning Documenting the American South (http://docsouth.unc.edu/), and two new units, Digital Publishing, and Digital Production Services. Reporting to the Associate University Librarian for Special Collections, the successful candidate will develop and lead a strategic digital library program that advances innovation in collections, services, scholarly communication, preservation, and education. The successful candidate will demonstrate vision, creativity, commitment to continuous service improvement, integration of access technologies for seamless presentation to users, and provide leadership to the digital library community. The new department will be instrumental in the Library's investigation and application of emerging digital library technologies For more information, see the entire job posting... http://www.lib.unc.edu/jobs/epa/carolina_digital_library.html From bstubbs at rci.rutgers.edu Fri Apr 28 15:00:27 2006 From: bstubbs at rci.rutgers.edu (Brian Stubbs) Date: Fri Apr 28 14:58:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <4452664B.1010608@rci.rutgers.edu> This article provides a way to do this, while still allowing the use of USB peripherals such as mouse, keyboard or scanner. This only disables the storage drivers. This could have uses in preventing users from copying data from the computer, or running un-approved software from a portable device. http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2006/04/disable-usb-drives.html -- Brian Stubbs Supervisor II, Alexander Library Access Services Dept, Rutgers University Libraries From travelinlibrarian.8248287 at bloglines.com Fri Apr 28 15:11:46 2006 From: travelinlibrarian.8248287 at bloglines.com (travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:11:50 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <1146251506.2518497491.3154.sendItem@bloglines.com> O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that you don't want someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I want to run my portable Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me. Never mind the fact that the file I need to work on using your public computer is probably on my USB drive so you've just stopped me from finishing the paper that's due tomorrow. Michael Sauers Internet Trainer, BCR --- Brian Stubbs USB peripherals such as mouse, keyboard or scanner. This only disables > the storage drivers. This could have uses in preventing users from > copying data from the computer, or running un-approved software from a > portable device. > > http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2006/04/disable-usb-drives.html > -- > Brian Stubbs > Supervisor II, Alexander Library > Access Services Dept, Rutgers University Libraries > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Apr 28 15:22:50 2006 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:23:23 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers In-Reply-To: <1146251506.2518497491.3154.sendItem@bloglines.com> References: <1146251506.2518497491.3154.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: <44526B8A.60700@ohiolink.edu> On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that you don't want > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I want to run my portable > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... Hear, hear! Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying a dollar a page for color printing... From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Apr 28 15:25:59 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:26:05 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51012B4E69@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own operating system so I could hack into your computer. Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: > > > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that > you don't want > > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I > want to run my portable > > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... > > Hear, hear! > Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying > a dollar a > page for color printing... > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From cshumar at munpl.org Fri Apr 28 15:28:32 2006 From: cshumar at munpl.org (Charles Shumar) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:28:39 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: Do the computers have CD-ROMs or Floppy drives? You could do this from both of those too - are they disabled? >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Drew, Bill >>>Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:26 PM >>>To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org >>>Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers >>> >>> >>>Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own >>>operating system so I could hack into your computer. >>> >>>Wilfred (Bill) Drew >>>E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu >>>AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 >>>"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >>>safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of >>>Thomas Dowling >>>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM >>>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers >>>> >>>> On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, >>>travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: >>>> >>>> > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that >>>> you don't want >>>> > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I >>>> want to run my portable >>>> > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... >>>> >>>> Hear, hear! >>>> Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying >>>> a dollar a >>>> page for color printing... >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Web4lib mailing list >>>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>> From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Fri Apr 28 15:34:02 2006 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (robin) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:34:06 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51012B4E69@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <039e01c66afa$b4a8afc0$2806010a@scplnet.lib.il.us> I submit that the answer is DeepFreeze (www.faronics.com) which, when the PC is rebooted, will restore it to whatever condition it was in when frozen - NO MATTER WHAT the user did to it in the meantime. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:26 PM To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own operating system so I could hack into your computer. Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: > > > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that > you don't want > > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I > want to run my portable > > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... > > Hear, hear! > Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying > a dollar a > page for color printing... > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From travelinlibrarian.8248287 at bloglines.com Fri Apr 28 15:36:13 2006 From: travelinlibrarian.8248287 at bloglines.com (travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:37:31 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <1146252973.31602083.22478.sendItem@bloglines.com> Bill, you could disable booting from the USB port (I'd be ok with that) without disabling the USB port completly. Michae Sauers --- Drew wrote: Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own > operating system so I could hack into your computer. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Apr 28 15:36:32 2006 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:37:33 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51012B4E77@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> Good answer! ;-) Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: robin [mailto:rboulton@linc.lib.il.us] > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:34 PM > To: Drew, Bill; 'Thomas Dowling'; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > I submit that the answer is DeepFreeze (www.faronics.com) > which, when the PC > is rebooted, will restore it to whatever condition it was in > when frozen - > NO MATTER WHAT the user did to it in the meantime. > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:26 PM > To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own > operating system so I could hack into your computer. > From DobbsA at apsu.edu Fri Apr 28 15:41:11 2006 From: DobbsA at apsu.edu (Dobbs, Aaron) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:43:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: Greetings fellow thread readers... The easy way to block the described hack (and the floppy and CD hacks, too) is to configure the machine's BIOS to only boot from the hard drive, or better yet the System partition only, and enable BIOS security which will require a password to change BIOS settings. Quick, easy, painless (but repetitive as each machine must be touched) If you would rather not allow executables to run from the removable drives/media there are a plethora of findable software packages or registry hacks to do so. Personally, I'd like to be able to run my Portable Firefox and Portable Thunderbird apps to browse the web in my environment and check my email on a public machine. If that's not possible, the least I would expect to be able to do is save files to my removable drive/media (thumb drive, CD-/+R(W), floppy, etc.) -Aaron :-)' Vis tecum sit! Aaron W. Dobbs, MSLS, MSM A+, MCDBA, MCSE+I, Network+ Network Services Librarian Austin Peay State University Box 4595 Clarksville, TN 37044-4595 (v) 931.221.6408 (f) 931.221.7296 http://library.apsu.edu/library/dobbsa -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:26 PM To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own operating system so I could hack into your computer. Wilfred (Bill) Drew E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: > > > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that > you don't want > > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I > want to run my portable > > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... > > Hear, hear! > Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying > a dollar a > page for color printing... > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Fri Apr 28 15:44:03 2006 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:46:14 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers In-Reply-To: <039e01c66afa$b4a8afc0$2806010a@scplnet.lib.il.us> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51012B4E69@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> <039e01c66afa$b4a8afc0$2806010a@scplnet.lib.il.us> Message-ID: <14102.198.111.163.210.1146253443.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Robin, I don't think this would address what Bill suggested. As far as I know, DeepFreeze only protects the computer at the OS level. That's not going to stop me if I can get into your computer at boot up before OS level protections can be enabled. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI > I submit that the answer is DeepFreeze (www.faronics.com) which, when the > PC > is rebooted, will restore it to whatever condition it was in when frozen - > NO MATTER WHAT the user did to it in the meantime. > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:26 PM > To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers > > Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own > operating system so I could hack into your computer. > > Wilfred (Bill) Drew > E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu > AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling >> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers >> >> On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: >> >> > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that >> you don't want >> > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I >> want to run my portable >> > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... >> >> Hear, hear! >> Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying >> a dollar a >> page for color printing... >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From bstubbs at rci.rutgers.edu Fri Apr 28 15:48:16 2006 From: bstubbs at rci.rutgers.edu (Brian Stubbs) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:46:18 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers Message-ID: <44527180.6010408@rci.rutgers.edu> I understand this, and that many libraries would not want to implement such a procedure because it would interfere with their own defined fair-use of their public workstations. However, I've been asked before on this listserve how to disable USB drives on public computers, so I thought I would pass this along for those who find it useful. Whether to use it or not, whether it fits your institution's policies, is for your institution to determine. Thanks, Brian Charles Shumar wrote: > Do the computers have CD-ROMs or Floppy drives? > You could do this from both of those too - are they disabled? > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Drew, Bill >>>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:26 PM >>>> To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers >>>> >>>> >>>> Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own >>>> operating system so I could hack into your computer. >>>> >>>> Wilfred (Bill) Drew >>>> E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu >>>> AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >>>> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Thomas Dowling >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM >>>>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers >>>>> >>>>> On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, >>>> travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: >>>>>> O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that >>>>> you don't want >>>>>> someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I >>>>> want to run my portable >>>>>> Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... >>>>> Hear, hear! >>>>> Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying a dollar a >>>>> page for color printing... >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Web4lib mailing list >>>> Web4lib@webjunction.org >>>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >>>> > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From mmcevoy at northvillelibrary.org Fri Apr 28 15:50:51 2006 From: mmcevoy at northvillelibrary.org (Michael McEvoy) Date: Fri Apr 28 15:53:40 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers In-Reply-To: <14102.198.111.163.210.1146253443.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51012B4E69@system14.csntprod.morrisville.edu> <039e01c66afa$b4a8afc0$2806010a@scplnet.lib.il.us> <14102.198.111.163.210.1146253443.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Message-ID: <2670.69.209.153.118.1146253851.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> This is true of the BIOS... if a person can boot off USB, erase any Deep Freeze elements from the system, they may actually disable Deep Freeze. The answer lies in the BIOS: password protect your BIOS and assign only C: as a bootable drive. On Fri, April 28, 2006 15:44, Andrew Mutch wrote: - > Robin, - > - > I don't think this would address what Bill suggested. As far as I know, - > DeepFreeze only protects the computer at the OS level. That's not going to - > stop me if I can get into your computer at boot up before OS level - > protections can be enabled. - > - > Andrew Mutch - > Library Systems Technician - > Waterford Township Public Library - > Waterford, MI - > - >> I submit that the answer is DeepFreeze (www.faronics.com) which, when - >> the - >> PC - >> is rebooted, will restore it to whatever condition it was in when frozen - >> - - >> NO MATTER WHAT the user did to it in the meantime. - >> - >> -----Original Message----- - >> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org - >> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill - >> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:26 PM - >> To: Thomas Dowling; web4lib@webjunction.org - >> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers - >> - >> Or I might want to reboot your computer from my USB drive with my own - >> operating system so I could hack into your computer. - >> - >> Wilfred (Bill) Drew - >> E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu - >> AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 - >> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary - >> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) - >> - >> - >>> -----Original Message----- - >>> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org - >>> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling - >>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:23 PM - >>> To: web4lib@webjunction.org - >>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Disable USB drives on public computers - >>> - >>> On 4/28/2006 3:11 PM, travelinlibrarian.8248287@bloglines.com wrote: - >>> - >>> > O.k. I'll bite. What do you have on a public computer that - >>> you don't want - >>> > someone copying to a USB drive. Further, as a patron, I - >>> want to run my portable - >>> > Firefox and would be suitably upset if you didn't let me... - >>> - >>> Hear, hear! - >>> Or maybe I just want to save my search results without paying - >>> a dollar a - >>> page for color printing... - >>> _______________________________________________ - >>> Web4lib mailing list - >>> Web4lib@webjunction.org - >>> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ - >>> - >> _______________________________________________ - >> Web4lib mailing list - >> Web4lib@webjunction.org - >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ - >> - >> _______________________________________________ - >> Web4lib mailing list - >> Web4lib@webjunction.org - >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ - >> - > - > _______________________________________________ - > Web4lib mailing list - > Web4lib@webjunction.org - > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ - > _<>_ / \ Michael McEvoy |==\==/==| mmcevoy@northvillelibrary.org | >< | Electronic Services Support ,-\ () /-. Northville District Library V( `-====-` )V http://www.northville.lib.mi.us (_____:|_____) ------------------------------- ---- ---- Webmaster - The Library Network Megabytes, http://tln.lib.mi.us Gigabytes, ------------------------------- Terabytes, All Powerful Guru Petabytes, http://www.spoo.net Exabytes, ------------------------------- Zetabytes, Chief Guru Officer Yottabytes, http://www.mcwebdesign.net Nonabytes, Doggabytes, & Mycatbites From michele.haytko at gmail.com Fri Apr 28 16:31:04 2006 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Fri Apr 28 16:31:13 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Patron Media Survey Results Message-ID: <15e475fa0604281331k6f3fb6d1t90b9c5726087d599@mail.gmail.com> Here are the results from our Patron Media survey. Thanks to all who participated! michele P.S. Sorry it is in text; the file wouldnt attach (or rather, it wouldn't send to the listservs). If you'd like a copy of the word file, please email me directly. ----- 1) Does your library currently have patron machines where saving to an outside media (disk, etc.) is an option? Yes 97 96.04% No 4 3.96% 0 Respondents Skipped question #1 101 Responses Total 100.00% 2) Do you allow the following media: 3 1/2 Floppy 97 97.98% Zip Disk 25 25.25% CD 52 52.53% USB Flash/Thumb/Jump Drive 93 93.94% 2 Respondents Skipped question #2 99 Responses Total 98.02% 3) Do you sell the following media: 3 1/2 Floppy 79 97.53% Zip Disk 4 4.94% CD 27 33.33% USB Flash/Thumb/Jump Drive 2 2.47% 20 Respondents Skipped question #3 81 Responses Total 80.20% 4) If you answered yes to any option in question 3, please explain (including pricing information). 19 Respondents Skipped question #4 82 Responses Total We charge $.50 per floppy disk. We have considered selling USB drives but feel it would case unneccessary work for staff. We sell used floppies for 50? and new ones for $1.00 CDs and Floppy disks are $1 each. Floopy $.50 CD $1 We charge one dollar for a 3 1/2 floppy. We hold them at the reference desk and patron's pay for the disks there. Both sell for $1.00 each 50 cents per disk. $1.00 for 3 1/2 inch diskettes. floppy $1 zip $10 - only for older Gates machines. rare to sell one. Floppy - $1.00 $1 for 3.5 disk 50 cents each $1 each We sell the 3.5 inch floppies for $1.00 each. Patrons bring their own CDs and flash drives. However, we have a flash drive to save patrons' work if necessary, such as when the floppy gets stuck in the drive. $1 per disk. We don't have enough call for the others as most of our computers don'thave zip drives or the ability to burn CD's. floppies and cds are available at the reference desk for $1 each - sold as cost recovery Floppies sell for $1. 50 cents per floppy, 50 cents per cd/r $1.00 per disk Floppy disk $1 50 cents I have a few extra thumb drives that were purchased for a class. Students can purchase them for $27, our cost. Floppies and CD's cost $.50. Our computer lab has CD burners, but no floppies. Our library has floppy drives but no CD burners. Thumb drives work on everything. we're a small library. we just keep a couple of boxes in a cupboard and sell 'em for $2 each (that's in Australian dollars) We sell for $1.00 each. We only have two computers that allow disk save/access. 3 1/2 floppy- free; buy in bulk Floppy disks available as a convenience. Price is $3.00/disk, which is a premium well beyond our purchase cost. floppy 1 dollar...cd 1 dollar The checkout desk sells the floppies (for $1.00) and has recently started selling (or will soon...) CD-R's (I am not sure of the price, although I suspect it will be for $1.00 as well) Blank, pre-formatted floppys are available for 50 cents each. Patrons buy the disks at the circulation desk -- $1 each. That said, there have been MANY problems with the firewall and burning CDs, so much so that we caution people that they may purchase the CD but it may not actually work. WE charge $.50 per CD We sell floppies for $1 The price for a 3 1/2 in. floppy is $1. $1.00 per floppy. We will probably sell CDs if we decide to do CD burners on all; with the technology changing so rapidly, this may not be necessary. $1 We sell floppies and CD-Rs for $1.00 each. We charge 40 cents for a floppy disc We sell the floppy for $1. Patrons can not bring in their own but must purchase one from us. Floppy disks - $1.00 Zip disks - originally $10 but we would probably sell them for less since they aren't in great demand $1.00/floppy $15.00/zip (we sell about 1 zip disk about every six months). We have also had a few patrons ask about purchasing USB drives recently. 50 cents for a 3 1/2 floppy and $2.00 for a writable CD $1/floppy We sell both floppies and CDs for $1 each. $1.00 / floppy $1 Floppy $0.50 CD $2.00 $1 each for either floppy or CD. We just bought a stack of 40 CD-R, plus envelopes to sell to anyone who wants to burn a CD at our public PCs. We always had formatted floppies (Mac and PC). CD-Rs and floppies are a buck each. The Friends of the Library sell the disks at our circ desk for $1.00 each. We charge $1.00. We sell each 3 1/2 inch disk for $1.00. Inexpensive resource that doesn't create a pricey inventory problem, the way flash drives would. $1 per disk Floppy disks available for $1.00 floppies $1 each We sell the disks for 50 cents each--I think that is pretty much close to cost. We sell only disks for $1.00 each. Our public computers do not have the CD-ROM drives installed and the patrons bring their own flash drives. We sell 3 1/2 Floppys for $1 each---in our system they are either provided by the Friends, and the Friends receive the profit, or provided by the system, with the monies going back to the system as general fees and fines. A local company installed a machine that vends formatted floppies for $1. / diskette $1 for a floppy We buy floppies and CD-Rs from a catalog and sell them for $1 each $1 for new floppy or cd Reformatted floppies free (with no guarantee) We sell either of the media at the same price - $1, this includes floppy, CDR, or CDRW. Reference sells floppy disks for 50 cents. 1.00 a floppy. If the computers had CD/RW drives we'd sell CDs too. Was interested to read here about inexpensive USB Flash drives. That may be next, but probably not until the price comes down. 3.5 disc is $1.00 each CD-R discs arer $2.00 each. We do not encourage sales. We used to offer zip disks on PC and sale them also. But we discontinued them last year due to lack of use. 1.00 per 3 1/2 disk fifty cents for a blank floppy we sell floppy disks for $0.50. $1 for floppies or CDs. We will sometimes reformat a floppy disk that was left at the library and not picked up for an extended period. We give these reformatted disks away for free. Floppies $1.00. Floppies and CD-R's are both $1.00 Sell floppies for $1. and CD's for $1.50 We have a vending machine. 128 MB thumb drives cost $20. We sell floppies and CDs for 50? each, and have a few spare Zips on hand that we sell at cost. We charge $1.00 for a floppy 3 1/2 disks are sold for $.50 plus sales tax. We purchase the floppy disks from our office supply vendor for and sell them for $.50. In our new library opening February 2007, we will probably use all of the above. We sell floppies for $1.00 and keep them here for patrons to use...they may not bring in discs from outside. We sell 3 1/2 floppy for .50 apiece. .50 + tax for the floppy. $1 per floppy disc. (I think that now that we have computers that will take the CDs and USB type devices we should sell at least the CDs. The others may be too expensive, I don't know I haven't ever bought one.) $1 a disk, for either 5) Do you store the media for the patron? Yes 8 8.00% No 92 92.00% 1 Respondent Skipped question #5 100 Responses Total 99.01% 6) Please explain why you do or do not store media for your patrons. Please include any problems that you have had with patrons based on your decision. 17 Respondents Skipped question #6 84 Responses Total 83.17% We have never considered storing media for patrons, and I doubt we would for privacy and liability reasons. We simply don't have the space or the staff to undertake such a project. We do not store media because of space and privacy issues. Media is the patron's property. We do not want to be responsible if anything happens to the media or the data on it. Biggest problem is patrons leaving their disks in the drive. are you kidding? we've never even considered it. just seems like a nightmare. tracking it all, potential loss, damage, theft, mixup... We don't simply becuase it doesn't come up. I don't ever remember being asked to store a disk or CD. Used to do it but space and patrons got to be a problem. We are a campus of over 20K students. It's not even an option. Not taking responsibility if any patron's stuff gets lost! We will store media for patrons, and in my time here (which, I should mention, is only a couple of months), we haven't had any problems. Of course, we are a tiny school/public library and serve a patron population of about 350 people, which does make it easier. It would be just one more thing to take care of. I can't imagine the patrons would want us to store their media as well. It has never been requested. I'm not sure what you mean by storing media. Can they save their work on the hard drive?--No. Do we save their work for them on the flash drive?-No. It's a matter of privacy. We are about to stop doing this. The former policy did not allow for outside media. The new policy allows for outside media for storing files. This has never come up. Not sure what you mean by storing the media for them. liability - what if we lose one? Never considered it. Sounds like more hassle than it is worth. It's never even occurred to me to do so. It's their media. I don't think I understand the question. "Store media"? You mean, do we store their disks for them? Why would we do that? Or do you mean offer centralized file storage on a server? Media doesn't belong to the Library. They take their media with them. Why would they leave it at the Library? Once they buy it, it belongs to the patron. Materials never picked up, space issues. No space. I have no place to keep it. storage, and who's going to look after it, and what happens if they don't come back to get for a long time. we just won't be drawn into solving any of these issues. Not enough storage/hardware Never came up, but no place to store. Not sure what you mean by "store media." If you mean do we file away their saved data on floppy, etc. till they come back and ask for it again, we don't have the space or the time to babysit their property in this way. Only temporary during the session they use the computer It really is the patrons own responsibility to maintain and keep their own media. The security measures that our IT staff use (centurion) makes it less of a concern what might come into the library on removable storage, therefore we feel it should be the patrons responsibility to keep track of their storage (just like a notebook or purse...) I'm not sure, but we get alot of traffic and it would take alot of staff time to manage this, I think. In our main building, the computers are available on different floors so that would also be something to coordinate. Frankly, it never occurred to me to offer that service. The risk of loss/damage/security seems too great. Sometimes we have to explain to them how to do it. I don't work in public services so I'm not sure the reason. I'm not sure anyone has asked about this. Our IT Department believes that almost any patron interaction with a computer is highly dangerous. No place to store ; have never had a problem with this decision. Not sure what you mean by question 5. Do we help patrons with the process of saving to outside media? Yes. Do we allow patrons to save to our hard drives? No. Do we physically keep their outside media in the library? No. We keep the floppies in the library so that a virus is transfered from outside computers to our computers via the floppy. Once the floppy leaves the library, the patron can not use it again in the library. We store it for them at the circulation desk. Patrons are not always happy with not using their outside floppy. Staff time and space are both limited I don't think we ever considered storing patron's media. Personally, I don't want the resposnibility of keeping track of it. We prefer they leave the floppies at the library so they do not have to be scanned each time they come in. We used to back in the day before good anti-virus protection, but haven't for probably about 5 years now. We would always end up with a big box of floppies that belonged to various people who never came back to use/claim them again. why make it our responsiblity for patron's data We have not attempted to store media for our patrons. We are actively promoting self service to free us from clerical tasks so we can redirect our staff/time/energy to higher level activities. (To date we've moved 4 positions from clerical to professional/paraprofessional.)Our users value their privacy and their time. Do not want to fill up hard drive, and also Deep Freeze will not allow it. Never even considered it. No storage room at our circ desk or anywhere else. We have never considered storing for patrons. I'm not sure why we would. Why would we want to store the media? We don't store eyeglasses, running shoes, purses, or other personal accouterments for our patrons. Makes no sense. Too hard to keep track It is the patron's responsibility to store their own documents. Not sure what you mean by "storing media" -- why would we hold onto the patrons' media devices, their property? We don't have the space or staff to look after patron's media We haven't received request for this kind of service other than CD-ROM. Because of the conflicts with our security software and the space requirements of such media led our system to decide against this type of service. We don't keep library cards either... Most patrons are working with multiple computers (school, home, library). I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "store media". Users can store documents in the My Documents folder which is not wiped out by reboot. we do not store disks or flash drives for patrons. No problems so far. Once they buy it, it is theirs to keep. We have never been asked to do this. If someone needed us to do it we would explore whether to provide this service. I am not at all sure they would *want* their content out of their hands. No one has ever asked us to store anything and we are not set up to do so. Patrons sometimes forget to take discs with them. We keep them in a box in case they come back for them. No. Patrons are rsponsible for their own personal property. The media use is too great for us to keep track of. Also we do keep it because of security and privacy issues. We have many computer labs on campus. Our students would rather take their data with them than leave it with us. Never considered it but if I had it would be that I don't want to be responsible for their media. No demand for it and there are libility and privacy issues we would not want to face. No room to store. Patrons are responsible for their own disks/CDs/flash. We do not store media for patrons -- do not have the resources for the volume of computer users. 7) Do you allow patrons to use media not purchased by you? Yes 92 91.09% No 9 8.91% 8) Please explain why you do or do not allow outside media. Please include any problems that you have had with patrons based on your decision. 23 Respondents Skipped question #8 78 Responses Total 77.23% We have numerous antivirus and security measures in place that elimiate threats from patron media. We were scanning all media for viruses, but have now stopped that. We use DeepFreeze to keep any changes from being made to the computers. We want to be as flexible and accomodating as possible. I really wish we didnt allow anything but usb flash drives, others, esp floppies are an unending headache. As often as I tell patron not to use floppies, I dont think they will stop until I remove the drives, thereby making it impossible to use floppies. If patrons want to bring their own floppies, we have no problem with that. We have virus scanners on all of the PCs and we will also manually scan disks if the patrons desire. we'd allow CD burning if we could figure out a way that Centurion Guard would permit it. If they want to use outside disks, they can be scanned for viruses. Of course, not everyone asks. More than viruses, we have had problems of people sticking worn out floppies into the A drive and getting them stuck. WIll unlock security if requested Never had a problem... we have a virus scan on as well as Centurian Guard so there's just not a problem We do require that we scan the media for viruses prior to their using outside media (flash drives). We do not allow outside floppies. Only if they can use it without downloading. We've not had any problems with outside media. I think at first there was reluctance from our IT people because of viruses, etc., but they have relented. Our IT department assures outside media will not affect our systems. Only files, not computer software, are allowed. Our C drives are disabled so the possibility of getting viruses, etc. is low so we allow it. have had no issues with viruses No reason not to allow outside media. We have security and anti-virus. This prevents any of the problems that we might encounter. We sure don't want to get in the business of providing media ourselves, especially flash drives. Students want to keep copies of their stuff on their own media. No reason not to. Anti Virus has advanced to the point we're not afraid of internal virus propogation, plus other network fixes work Why not? we're a medical library, ppl search medline for articles and sometimes want to take the results away with them. we are part of a teaching hospital, so students may want to work on their projects and bring/take their work with them. We have DeepFreeze, which erases all patron made changes on restart. People come in with files on disk or flash drive and expect to be able to use them. This is a small community. Major PR headache to say "no." We have no problem with outside media, but strongly encourage users to have USB flash drive. again Centurion makes it very difficult (I won't say impossible, but I don't think it has happened in the 8 years they have been using it) to change the machines... We have our anti-virus program to scan the media so we don't feel it is a risk. I should note that at this current moment we don't allow flash drives, but are waiting on our library board to approve the new policy to allow their use. We anticipate that the policy will be approved and USB extention cables (so patrons aren't messing with the back of the machine or those awkward placements on the Dells) to be in place and ready for roll out May 1. We have gotten numerous complaints from patrons not being able to use these devices. We've had to convience our IT department that they are not the security risk they imagine, espeically with the Gates Public Security Tool/Microsft Public Access Tool and Centurion Guard products. Occasionally the metal part of the floppy disk gets caught in the drive -- but that could happen with disks purchased from us, too. The usual problem is that the file that the patron is SURE was on the disk, isn't. Or that the computer can't read it. With all the security and virus control we have on the public stations, we haven't had a problem with infection, etc. Only a few minor problems. Many come with resumes and papers that they need to complete. Our county MIS department manages our pcs and network for us. For many years they didn't allow outside media. With newer and better security available they now allow floppies, CDs and flash drives to be used from the outside. I don't think that we have any pcs with the capability to save to CD, otherwise we would allow that option, too. See above, our IT Department, etc. Possibly they want our system as locked down as possible because they are genuinely understaffed and can't deal with even one more computer. It seems easier than keeping track of and ordering all the different types of media that patrons could want to use. We use Centurion Guard so supposedly any viruses etc will be wiped out by end of day We have had compatibility issues. Our thin clients only recognize USB drives that do not have security features, and does not recognize all brands. Personally, I own 1 flash drive that works and 1 that does not. The reference librarian has discovered this as well. Our machines do not have CD drives and this has been an ongoing problem. We allow patrons to use their own media, but we require that they bring it to us to be scanned for viruses first. Occasionally people will forget to get their disk scanned, but we've never had a virus problem. A bigger problem is that sometimes the patron's disk fails, they lose their data, and they naturally assume that the library is to blame. I wasn't here when this policy was implemented but I'm told it for the same reason as listed in # 6. Our computers do not have the capability to allow many of the newer technologies. We try to avoid viruses from outside sources. Outside media is fine - the only problems we have are patrons leaving their disks behind. We have machines that reboot after each patron and changes are erased after each reboot. We do regular virus and spyware scans and we really haven't had any problems with are machines becoming infected from patron media. Also, many times patrons are bringing in work that they started on a different computer, so it would be impractical to force them to use media that they purchased from us. We scan whatever they bring to the library so there aren't any surprises when they put it in the computer. Good virus protection and security software are beautiful things. USB Flash drives okay--realize security risk but we don't have the staff to sell/monitor The only problems we have enountered is floppy disk covers(metal) coming off in disk drive. Not a frequent occurrance . Hard to control and we do not supply flash drives so they must use their own. Patrons need to save the work they are doing. Our machines are locked down in different ways, so hopefully no harm would come to them. We got our Gates computers in 2001 and so far so good. We are part of county government, but now have a stand-alone server for our computer lab, so there is no longer any danger of viruses or possibility for crashing the operating system. We still have patrons complaining that we don't sell the newer media, only floppies. We encourage this. Computers are locked down so outside media could not be used to place a virus or change settings. Patrons have been using floppy disks for some time and know how to use them. They are also becoming more aware of flash and thumb drives, but are still relatively new in this community. We have virus protection on the public computers and run deep freeze every night to remove excess items. It's their responsibility to provide storage media if they need it. It is easier for patrons who need to print something and their home printer is on the fritz. We have had a number of people whose floppys were dirty which ended up ruining our drives. We have had very little problems with outside media and we have a good virus control/security software system installed. We've had the occasional disk that will not read, but other than that have had no problems. Occasionally we get old diskettes stuck in drives. We have enough security in place so that virus infection has not been an issue. Just to prevent file infection or issues with our filewalls. Our computer security is good enough that we are not afraid of viruses brought in on foreign floppies. But we see many, many problems with both saving and retrieving data from floppies and CDs brought from home. We see problems with the ones we sell, but not as many. Because our public computers are completely reset with each reboot, we see no reason not to. We do, however, include active anti-virus software on each computer, and it will scan the external media and alert the user if it finds a virus. We use Symantec AV and Deepfreeze so reckon that any viruses, downloads etc will disappear upon reboot. Our Centurion Guard and Antivirus software protect our computers from issues we might have with allowing patrons to work between our computers and any others they might have access to. The only outside media we allow are floppy disks and flash drives. We allow them so the patrons can take their work with them. We occasionaly have problems with unformated disks, or MAC formated disks, but have not had any problems with flash drives so far. 9) Do you have any type of hardrive security on your machines? No 16 16.84% Centurion Guard 16 16.84% Other 26 27.37% Other (with written-in responses, see below) 46 48.42% 6 Respondents Skipped question #9 95 Responses Total 94.06% DriveShield DeepFreeze symantic Antivirus Deep Freeze Fortres, Policy Editor Microsoft Shared Computer Toolkit on some Deep Freeze and something else (I'm not in Systems) Websense Our IT people would know, but I'm not sure what we have. I know that they are very security conscious, so it's probably something very secure. ? blocks access to hard drive DeepFreeze DeepFreeze Fortres user profiles Fortress Faronics Deepfreeze DeepFreeze -- by far the best in our experience Centurion Guard's upgrade - Cornerstone I'm not sure what -- the MIS folks take care of it. Everything is on the County's system. I have no idea what they have. We filter the children's department Internet but not the adult department computers. WYSE thin clients Only our antivirus Gates configuration, Windows profiles DeepFreeze DeepFreeze Deep freeze Deep Freeze Deep Freeze I don't know Not sure Fortress I am not sure what brand it is deep freeze not sure Comprise SAM security software currently homegrown but looking at third party Clean Sweep, Public Web Browser PCSecure, Active Directory, Citadel Secure PC (I think that's the name) Deep Freeze Deepfreeze Symantec Yes, but I don't know the specifics. Deep Freeze deepfreeze Deep Freeze -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From miriambobkoff at yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 17:11:21 2006 From: miriambobkoff at yahoo.com (Miriam Bobkoff) Date: Fri Apr 28 17:11:24 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Position Announcement: Services, Santa Fe, New Mexico Message-ID: <20060428211121.6271.qmail@web30009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Librarian. The City of Santa Fe has an opening for a Librarian, assigned to Cataloging/Technical Services. Position catalogs materials in a variety of formats using MARC, AACR2, DDC22, LCSH, and Bibliographic Formats and Standards. Oversees authority control processing. Works with the Library Technical Services Director on outsourcing projects, re-class projects, retrospective conversion, and catalog database cleanup. Works at Reference Desk and/or assists with Interlibrary Loans for 10 hours per week. Experience with the Library?s Innovative Interfaces Inc. system and OCLC are desirable. Requirements: High School Diploma or equivalent plus five (5) years of experience in library functions and operations such as cataloging, reference, interlibrary loan, media services. One (1) year of experience in area of assignment. General knowledge of computers and the ability to type. Relevant education may be substituted for experience on a year for year basis. MLS preferred. For further information, please see the web site at http://www.santafenm.gov. Submit a completed City of Santa Fe application to the Human Resources Department, City of Santa Fe, 200 Lincoln, or mail to P.O. Box 909, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-0909. A copy of your HS/GED or college transcript must be attached to each application. Pre-placement physical exams are required. Position closes 05/03/06 at 5 pm. Full official City of Santa Fe posting at http://snipurl.com/psrz Application form at http://www.santafenm.gov/human-resources/index.asp#application Miriam Bobkoff personal: mbobkoff@cybermesa.com Santa Fe Public Library work: mkbobkoff@ci.santa-fe.nm.us 145 Washington Avenue Santa Fe, NM 87501 The Library's Page: (505) 955-6832 http://www.santafelibrary.org Icarus... the SFPL Blog http://santafelibrary.blogspot.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From glenn at engagedpatrons.org Sat Apr 29 10:08:04 2006 From: glenn at engagedpatrons.org (Glenn Peterson) Date: Sat Apr 29 10:08:58 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Introducing EngagedPatrons.org - website services for public libraries Message-ID: <007201c66b96$55ed0160$6501a8c0@petersons> EngagedPatrons.org offers a variety of website services for public libraries. Services are free to small- and medium-size libraries and available at a small fee for larger libraries. Using EP, libraries can offer their users a more engaging and interactive web presence, no programming or software installation required. Services currently offered include library events listings (with online registration), custom blogs, RSS feeds, "contact us" forms and more. Services can be embedded in the look-and-feel of your existing site. Read the FAQ at: http://engagedpatrons.org/FAQ.cfm and what bloggers are saying about EP at: http://www.technorati.com/search/engagedpatrons.org Glenn Peterson EngagedPatrons.org From dirving at sailsinc.org Sat Apr 29 10:56:17 2006 From: dirving at sailsinc.org (Dale Irving) Date: Sat Apr 29 10:56:39 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Color printing Message-ID: I can't directly answer John's query regarding the cost of color printing, but I can tell him one way to find the information. He can access supplies cost information from the printer mfg website as well as expected consumption rates (it does vary per color) and compare this to the list prices for the supplies (and expected consumption) for his b&w printer. Also, we provide color printing (HP4600) in the public library I work at, charging .50 per page (5 times b&w rate - an arbitrary figure) We also use Envisionware's LPT1 product to control printing costs. Its a bit expensive but works very well - requiring patrons to accept the print job and clearly stated cost before the job is sent to the printer. Jobs are release either at a staff print station or, optionally, at a public release station. A coin kiosk can also be used. Dale From bernies at uillinois.edu Sat Apr 29 16:02:36 2006 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Sat Apr 29 16:02:51 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] CARLI debuts its digital library service Message-ID: The Consortium of Academic and Research Libraries in Illinois (CARLI) announces the launch of the CARLI Digital Collections, a digital library powered by CONTENTdm. The first offering of the CARLI Digital Collections is the Saskia digital image archive from Scholars Resource. This archive is available to the 180 consortium member libraries at no direct cost to the library. CARLI's Saskia collection contains 30,000 digital images of paintings, sculpture and architecture, including images from many important collections: the Prado, the Kunsthistorisches Museum, the Uffizi, and the Louvre as well as archaeological sites in Greece, Italy, Turkey and Egypt. The images are displayed in both high resolution and thumbnail format. Additionally, the descriptive data about the images includes references to the occurrences of these images in 19 major art history texts. CARLI, a new academic library consortium in its first year of operation, was formed by the consolidation of three Illinois academic library consortia. For more details about CARLI's programs and services see: http://www.carli.illinois.edu/ For more information about the Saskia archive: http://www.saskia.com/ For more information about CONTENTdm: http://contentdm.com/ http://www.oclc.org/contentdm/ Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From dmyershyatt at yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 19:31:33 2006 From: dmyershyatt at yahoo.com (Diana Myers Hyatt) Date: Sun Apr 30 19:31:37 2006 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: managing colour printing by the public Message-ID: <20060430233133.3845.qmail@web60222.mail.yahoo.com> Hi John, Just a comment on the colors of the toner -- cyan, magenta, yellow and black -- or CMYK as it's known in printers circles. Any color printing will usually involve all four colors, which combine to create all possible colors on the printer. Except for black, patrons will not be printing just magenta, cyan or yellow, unless they're making color separations. Diana Myers Hyatt Riverside Public Library John Fitzgibbon wrote: > Hi, > > We have received a grant from the government to install colour laser > printers on the networks for the public. In our libraries, we charge for > printing. Heretofore, we only provided black and white copies. Now that > we have the option of colour the issue of charging different rates > arises. The colour printer uses four toners (cyan, magenta, yellow, and > black) whereas the black and white printer uses one toner. This > presumably will not quadruple the cost. Few colours will require the > use of all four toners and four popular colours require only one toner. > We are thinking of charging three times as much for a colour copy as for > a black and white copy. Are our assumptions correct? Does colour > printing cost approximately three times as much as black and white > printing? We are only interested in recovering the cost of printing, not > the cost of the printer. > > Secondly, when a user clicks on print, we would like them to be given > the option of choosing colour or black and white. Is there any software > that will do this for us? At the moment the user has to go into > properties and make the change here. It is difficult to always remember > to do this and it is somewhat unfair to penalize someone for this > oversight. In many of our libraries, the printer is at the circulation > desk. The user goes to the circulation desk to receive their copies. > This means that we do not need a print server solution. In our larger > libraries we use LPT1. Is there cheap software that will simply prompt > the user to choose colour or black and white copies? > > Regards > John --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates.