[Web4lib] More on Google's digitization efforts

[Mike Rylander]

On 9/12/05, Mark Costa <markrcosta at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure how to word this correctly, but theoretically, could a program
> be devised to take advantage of Google's ability to display excerpts from
> the material. What I am thinking is a distributed search engine that would
> submit automically generated queries to the Google servers that would, as a
> collective whole, retrieve an entire copyrighted work?

I'd imagine that the anti-circumvention clauses in the DMCA would be a
roadblock to any legitmate institution trying that.  In any case,
that's akin to the "camcorder in the theater" version of a blockbuster
DVD, though much easier to stop unless there is a /very/ widespread
network of proxy servers to query through.  Someone may try it, but
I'd be willing to bet that the expense of using that plan would
outweigh that of just scanning each page of a local copy and selling
the locally digitized version.


> 
> On 9/6/05, Walt.Crawford at rlg.org <Walt.Crawford at rlg.org> wrote:
> >
> > Well, that would be part of the court case if it goes to court. (Which it
> > probably won't.)
> >
> > As I understand the Michigan contract, Google is returning scanned copies
> > of the books to the libraries. It can't do that without keeping a copy,
> > although I suppose it could not keep its own copy.
> >
> > If this does go to court, it may be one of the more interesting fair-use
> > cases. I've seen very knowledgeable people come down on both sides...
> >
> > [And if publishers were sensible, they'd applaud Google's effort, since it
> > should lead to more sales. That's a whole other discussion, to be sure.]
> >
> > -wcc-
> >
> > web4lib-bounces at webjunction.org wrote on 09/06/2005 09:16:10 AM:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6 September 2005, Walt Crawford wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lars notes, re a Chicago Tribune article on Google Print...
> > > >
> > > > One lawyer says in the article that you need copyright permission
> > > > > to offer searches. Perhaps then you also need copyright
> > > > > permission to offer loans, catalog records, and what not?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know, I can compile an alphabetic index to someone
> > > > > else's book and publish it without asking permission from the
> > > > > copyright holders. In fact, I already did that,
> > > > > http://aronsson.se/funkybusiness.html
> > > > >
> > > > > How is my finding tool any different from Google Print?
> > > >
> > > > Lars probably knows the answer already: He didn't go out and scan
> > entire
> > > > books and serials that he did not purchase or own, keeping the scanned
> > > > copies, as part of compiling that index.
> > >
> > > Lars made an index. While he could have gone through the text writing
> > down
> > > note cards when he came across a term that he wanted to trace, he most
> > > probably made the index by scanning the text of the book, reading the
> > > scanned pages with an OCR, and compiling an index from the OCR'd text.
> > > What he preserved was not the scanned page but the index, a document
> > that
> > > simply states that each particular word occurs on a particular place on
> > a
> > > particular page, i.e., a simple fact. Facts are not copyrightable, at
> > > least under US law.
> > >
> > > I think if you read Google's description of what they are going to do
> > with
> > > respect to material still in copyright (see <
> > > http://print.google.com/googleprint/library.html>) that it very closely
> > > resembles my description of what Lars might have done. They will create
> > > digital indices of books. When you search for a term they will give you
> > a
> > > report that tells you how many times the term occurs in a particular
> > book
> > > and shows you three places in the book where the word occurs, together
> > with
> > > a amall amount of text on either side. This report could be produced
> > from
> > > the index, without using a copy of the book. It seems to me that what
> > > Google is doing is easily within the law as it currently exists.
> > >
> > > Nick Finke
> > >
> > > ************************************************************************
> > > Nicholas D. Finke Ph:513-333-7528
> > > Librarian
> > > National Underground Railroad Freedom Center
> > > 50 East Freedom Way
> > > Cincinnati, OH 45202
> > > E-mail: nfinke at nurfc.org
> > > Web: http://www.freedomcenter.org
> > >
> > >
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> 
> 
> --
> Mark R. Costa
> Off-Campus Librarian, Eastern Region
> Central Michigan University
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-- 
Mike Rylander
mrylander at gmail.com
GPLS -- PINES Development
Database Developer
http://open-ils.org