[WEB4LIB] RE: 99.9% of web sites obsolete?

Andrew I. Mutch amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us
Thu Sep 12 08:35:03 EDT 2002 

James,

This really has nothing to do with Fair Use. This has to do with the
policy of the list. The policy of the list is not to distribute materials
in this matter. The same information could have been conveyed by
including a summary of the article and a link to the URL. I think most
everyone here shares your opinions on Fair Use. If push came to shove, a
judge might agree with your interpretation of Fair Use. But none of that
allows listmembers to disregard the rules of the list.

Andrew Mutch
Library Systems Technician
Waterford Township Public Library
Waterford, MI



On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Robertson, James wrote:

> All,
> 
>   Two things:
> 
>   First, without doing any research, I am skeptical about the $200,000 fine.
> Who imposed this?  Cite me the case law.  I have not heard of any such
> thing.
> 
>   Second, why isn't Paul's actions covered by his Fair Use rights under the
> copyright law?
> 
>    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is
> of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit;
> 
>    This is a nonprofit listserv for people who, for the most part, work in
> non-profit, educational settings.  Favors Fair Use.
> 
>   (2) the nature of the copyrighted work
> 
>    The fact that is was a published, factual work (as opposed to an
> unpublished or highly creative or fictionaly work) favors a Fair Use
> arguement.
> 
>    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
> copyrighted work as a whole;
> 
>    If I understand this, it was a dozen or so paragraphs out of a whole
> book.  This favors a Fair Use arguement.
> 
>    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
> copyrighted work. 
> 
>    I doubt any person on this listserv did NOT buy the book because they
> read the exceprt.  He properly cited the source.  In fact, I printed it off
> and put it in a pile of books to order.  Paul's distribution probably helped
> PROMOTE the potential market of the book.  This favors a Fair Use arguement.
> 
>    Lastly, Section 504(c)(2) of the Copyright Act says that employees of
> nonprofit educational institutions who are found by the court to violate
> copyright cannot be help liable for statutory damages if the court believes
> the employee had made a reasonable good faith decision that their use of the
> material was coverd under Fair Use.
> 
>    Anyway ... my two cents.  Fair Use is our right.  If we don't use it, it
> will atrophy.
> 
>    I found nothing wrong with Paul's distribution.  I found it helpful, and
> it advanced my scholarship.  Which, is -- after all -- the genesis of the
> copyright law to begin with:
> 
> The Congress shall have the Power . . . To promote the Progress of Science
> and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the
> exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
> 
>  -- U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8
> 
>    Naturally, these are my own opinions.  I am not a lawyer.  They do not
> represent my library's official policies or practices.  Blah, blah.
> 
>    As I said recently on another listserv, I am sure there are many other
> views of this, but I nonetheless think a credible Fair Use position could be
> argued.
> 
>           --Jim Robertson, NJIT Library
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shwical at acsu.buffalo.edu
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Sent: 9/11/02 10:58 PM
> Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: 99.9% of web sites obsolete?
> 
> I'm glad this issue came up.  Many of my peers are not aware that
> cutting and pasting from websites (and not just sending the link) can be
> very expensive for employers.  A figure I was given in the special library
> where  I last worked was $200,000 per copyright violation.  (This times the
> number of people receiving the material in question.)  Perhaps this figure
> was invented to put fear in me.  I don't know.  "When in doubt, send the
> URL" is my motto.
> 
> Stephanie
> 
> 
> --On Wednesday, September 11, 2002 5:05 PM -0700 Paul Taylor 
> <ptaylor at tln.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> 
> > I excerpted the excerpt, necessarilly removing certain images and text
> > for  editorial reasons. Next time I'll just post the URL so discussion
> > stays on  topic. I thought I would be inviting sniper fire, but I
> > considered that some  people might want the text immediately without
> > having to click through to it.  My apologies.
> > -Paul
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday 11 September 2002 07:38 pm, Sloan, Bernie wrote:
> >> Point #5 of the Web4Lib posting policy reads:
> >>
> >> "All postings must be free of copyright restrictions that limit
> >> distribution. For example, posting a significant amount of a
> copyrighted
> >> work verbatim requires the permission of the copyright holder. To
> verify
> >> that such permission was obtained, all postings of this nature must
> >> include a statement that this is the case."
> >>
> >> See: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web4Lib/#Policy
> >>
> >> Bernie Sloan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Shirl Kennedy [mailto:sdk at cesmail.net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:29 PM
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: 99.9% of web sites obsolete?
> >>
> >> Speaking of posting guidelines...
> >>
> >> I don't think it's kosher to post the full text of copyrighted
> documents
> >> without obtaining the permission of the copyright holder.
> >>
> >> Shirl Kennedy
> >> IP Nerd
> >> http://home.tampabay.rr.com/hooboy/
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: web4lib at webjunction.org
> >> > [mailto:web4lib at webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Paul Taylor
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:12 PM
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> > Subject: [WEB4LIB] 99.9% of web sites obsolete?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dredged from Slashdot--an excerpt from "Forward Compatability:
> >> > Designing and
> >> > Building with Standards"
> >> >
> >> > Here's the URL:
> >> > http://www.digital-web.com/features/feature_2002-09.shtml
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > And here's the text:
> >> >
> >> > 99.9% of Websites Are Obsolete
> >> >
> >> > An excerpt from Forward Compatibility: Designing & Building With
> >> > Standards By Jeffrey Zeldman
> >> >
> >> > An equal opportunity disease afflicts nearly every site now on
> >> > the Web, from
> >> > the humblest personal homepages to the multi-million-dollar sites
> of
> >> > corporate giants. Cunning and insidious, the disease goes largely
> >> > unrecognized because it is based on industry norms. Though their
> >> > owners and
> >> > managers may not know it yet, 99.9% of all websites are obsolete.
> >>
> >> -----snip-----
> >>
> >> > Excerpted from Forward Compatibility: Designing & Building With
> >> > Standards by
> >> > Jeffrey Zeldman, to be published by New Riders in early 2003.
> Copyright
> >>
> >> (c)
> >>
> >> > 2002-2003 by New Riders and Jeffrey Zeldman. Used by permission of
> New
> >> > Riders.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Paul Taylor
> >> > Computer Coordinator
> >> > Salem-South Lyon District Library
> >> > 9800 Pontiac Trail
> >> > South Lyon, MI 48178
> >> >
> >> > 248-437-6431 phone
> >> > 248-437-6593 fax
> >> > http://south-lyon.lib.mi.us
> >
> > --
> > Paul Taylor
> > Computer Coordinator
> > Salem-South Lyon District Library
> > 9800 Pontiac Trail
> > South Lyon, MI 48178
> >
> > 248-437-6431 phone
> > 248-437-6593 fax
> > http://south-lyon.lib.mi.us
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>

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