Blocking email, the complaint
Dan Lester
dan at riverofdata.com
Mon Jul 9 13:56:42 EDT 2001
Well, I've received a bushel of request for the messages between
csimo.com and me regarding their appearance on the blacklist. So, here
is the thread. Naturally, you'll have to start reading at the bottom,
and for those not interested, use your delete key. It is an
interesting issue and fairly well related to the whole filtering issue
in libraries.
My comments to these folks don't represent my best writing, but since
I was in my brother's basement with five kids romping around, to say
nothing of adults partying, for all of my "thinking and writing" on
this, at least I have an excuse.
Any comments, to the list or private, appreciated. I'll advise if
they're happy when the list is changed tomorrow (can't do it today due
to logistical problems).
dan
This is a forwarded message
From: dan <dan at riverofdata.com>
To: dan at riverofdata.com <dan at riverofdata.com>
Date: Friday, July 06, 2001, 12:37:19 PM
Subject: Complaint againt your customer...
===8<==============Original message text===============
Well, since you consider this such a big deal, I will remove
your company's name from the list on the web at the earliest
possible opportunity. That will be next Monday when I return
home from the trip I'm currently on. Unfortunately, I only
have access to email from my current location, and have no
way of maintaining anything on the website. I assure you
that it will be removed on Monday.
I'll also advise other librarians of your complaint. I wonder
if you've also checked to see if you're blocked on one of the
many other lists similar to mine? There are a number of
companies that maintain such lists for profit, rather than
as a public service. Do you also forbid Yahoo, Excite, and
other services from referring to your name?
Also, Boise State University has nothing to do with my websites,
as they are personally maintained on my own time. In addition,
no profit is derived from them, either by me or any other
person I know of.
Also, the purpose of the list is EXACTLY what it claims to
be. The web mail or web chat servers on the list were ones
that were used in one of the many libraries that contribute
to the list. For all I know, the name of your company may
have been contributed by a library in North Dakota, Texas,
Hong Kong, or anywhere else, as dozens have contributed to
the list. I have no record of who contributed which servers,
as the list is nothing but the servers blocked by a proxy
server. As you point out, there are many more mail servers
than are on the list. However, only the ones that have been
contributed by libraries have been put on the list. Apparently
others have not been used in libraries, or have not been
reported to me.
If the folks in North Dakota thought my list was one of "bad
sites", they also had not read the information about the list,
which has been widely discussed on a number of mailing lists
relating to library technology, as well as being explicitly
stated on the website. As I'm sure you realize, what is "bad"
is in the eye of the beholder. Some libraries block pornography,
some block KKK materials, some block stock quotes, and so
forth, just as do many companies to keep the employees from
spending all day checking stocks or football pools. My employer
blocks email, chat, and game playing, but does not block
anything by subject matter. Nothing is blocked but those three
functions, regardless of whether those functions relate to God,
Country, pornography, sports, or any other topic.
Also, you should be aware that under new federal laws libraries
are required to block certain sites. At the moment that doesn't
appear to include email sites or chat sites, but libraries
certainly have the legal right to block any and all sites that
don't relate to their mission and goals, as approved by their
appropriate governing authorities. Many libraries don't allow
use by those that haven't paid taxes in their communities,
haven't enrolled in their college, and so forth. Others restrict
certain types of behavior, such as not permitting cell phones to
be used. And, of course, all sorts of behaviors that are
detrimental to the majority of users are forbidden. In some
libraries that includes use of chat or email. In others that
means a limit of fifteen minutes per user on the computers.
Anyone who can't use email in a library always has other
alternatives. No one has a constitutional or other right to use
email or chat in libraries.
Finally, please remember that ONLY the mail.csimo.com name was
blocked. Users could still purchase computers and do other things
with you. Thus, any loss of sales or other income is highly unlikely.
Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions. Your
domain's mail server will be removed from the list on Monday.
dan
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
Reply-To: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:40:02 -0500
>Dear Mr. Lester,
NO, that is not satisfactory at all. On June 28th we were notified that our
mail server was blocked in a public library in Bismarck, ND. That library
has informed us that this block was due to your list, and further notified
us that they believed only "bad" sites were on this list. They have no
specific policy against web mail services.
That one single "block" directly caused by you resulted in many thousands of
dollars of damage to our company. We believe there are significant
additional damages caused by you that we have not yet discovered. We
consider your inclusion of our server on your list as damage in itself as
you have no authority to include or use our domain name in any way. As a
matter of fact we have specifically denied your use of our domain name in
any way, and you should consider this and our previous message as a demand
to Cease and Desist.
There are over 165,000 known mail servers that provide web mail access. You
apparently do not list even a tiny fraction of those servers, so the purpose
of your list cannot be as you claim. Regardless, your choice to not include
many of the huge web mail services, and to include our small private server
is clear evidence of your intent to cause damage to CompuSystems, Inc.
Sir, this is not a joke. What makes you believe you have authority to make
such a list? You have been specifically notified that you have no authority
to publish our domain name in any way. It may be of interest to you to
examine what happened to the ORBS organization (http://www.orbs.org) after
they attempted to publish a list similar to your actions.
Since you apparently do not intend to cooperate we have no option other than
to take legal action against you, and I am authorizing our legal department
to take such action. We will additionally investigate to determine if your
actions were all or in part as a result of your employment with the Boise
State University for possible inclusion in such legal action.
Sincerely,
Joe Wolf, President
CompuSystems, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dan" <dan at riverofdata.com>
To: <webmaster at csimo.com>; <abuse at adaptive.net>; <dan at riverofdata.com>;
<legal at csimo.com>; <hostmaster at adaptive.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Complaint againt your customer...
> There is an apparent misunderstanding. The blacklist, as explained in the
introductory text, is not for any purpose except use by libraries to
prohibit access to web based email. Many libraries, particularly academic
libraries, do not permit students to access web email from the library, as
it ties up the computers from use for research. That means that NO email is
permitted, whether from adaptive.net, yourmail.com, yahoomail, religious
email, porn email, or any other type.
>
> Absolutely NOTHING is being said against any company or email provider.
For that matter, we block email hosted by the Boise State University, my
employer.
>
> I trust that this explanation, plus, perhaps, a review of the explanation
provided on the website, will make this clear that there is no harm to
anyone on the list.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dan Lester
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: <hostmaster at adaptive.net>
> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:52:55 -0400
>
> >Dan at riverofdata.com,
>
> Please reply to this situation. Please keep all recipients informed. We
do
> not wish to get involved in disputes or act as a liaison for arguments.
If
> this is a legal matter, either party should forward all documentation and
> filings to Adaptive.net, 512 S Washington, Royal Oak MI 48067
>
>
>
> --
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CompuSystems / Joe Wolf" <webmaster at csimo.com>
> To: <hostmaster at ADAPTIVE.NET>; <abuse at adaptive.net>;
<dan at riverofdata.com>;
> <legal at csimo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 10:35 PM
> Subject: Complaint againt your customer...
>
>
> Dear Hostmaster at Adaptive.net:
>
> Below you will find a copy of a message we sent to one of your customers.
> Your company apparently provides web hosting services for Mr. Dan Lester
and
> his site www.riverofdata.com
>
> Mr. Lester is publishing slanderous and derogatory information regarding
our
> corporation and a mail server on one of our domains. We consider this
> situation very serious, and ask that you immediately investigate this
> situation and remove his site from your service until this matter is
> resolved.
>
> Additionally we will ask ICANN to remove all entries for riverofdata.com
> from the Root DNS servers.
>
> We understand that you may not have been aware of this information Mr. Dan
> Lester has been providing via your service, and we will greatly appreciate
> your cooperation.
>
> If you knowingly continue to allow such information to be distributed we
> will have no choice but to consider you a willing party to the actions of
> Mr. Dan Lester.
>
> Thank you for your time and consideration regarding this serious matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Joe Wolf, President
> CompuSystems, Inc
> 1035 Washington Sq.
> Washington, MO 63090
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CompuSystems / Joe Wolf
> To: dan at riverofdata.com
> Cc: legal at csimo.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 9:20 PM
> Subject: Why on list?
>
>
> ATTN: Mr.Dan Lester
> 3577 East Pecan
> Boise, ID 83716-7115
>
>
> Dear Mr. Lester:
>
> You have one of our mail servers on your list, and I'd like to know why!
> The server is mail.csimo.com and is used by our employees all over the
> world. We have been informed that you have listed this server for some
> reason, and it has caused inconvenience to our employees and customers.
> This is a private server, and is not open to the public. We do not allow
> any type of relay. There is no "adult" content on our site, and we do not
> allow spam to be sent from our servers.
>
> I respectfully request that you remove mail.csimo.com from your list
> immediately. A letter of apology would be a good gesture on your part.
>
> We will be forced to take additional action if your error is not corrected
> within 10 days, and we sincerely hope that will not be necessary, but we
> will not hesitate. Remove mail.csimo.com from you list today!
>
> Sincerely,
> Joe Wolf, President
> CompuSystems, Inc.
> 1035 Washington Sq.
> Washington, MO 63090
>
>
>
>
===8<===========End of original message text===========
--
Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan at RiverOfData.com
3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA
www.riverofdata.com www.postcard.org www.gailndan.com
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