From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Sat Nov 1 12:02:30 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:01 2005 Subject: Locking in IP addresses with Netscape Navigator In-Reply-To: <9709318783.AA878323104@smtpgwy.isinet.com> Message-ID: For those of you who are looking for a cheap and easy way to restrict Netscape Navigator to selected web addresses, I have created several web pages that explain how to do this. They can be found at: http://northville.lib.mi.us/tech/lockin.htm These pages deal specifically with the FirstSearch and SearchBank on-line databases but the method can be adapted to to other sites as well. BTW, a big Thanks! to Glen Davies (GLEN@rimu.cce.ac.nz) who first posted this solution to this list. Andrew Mutch Northville District Library Northville, MI From NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Sat Nov 1 14:28:44 1997 From: NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA (Alain Vaillancourt) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:01 2005 Subject: Electronic libraries. and paperless office Message-ID: <199711011936.OAA09129@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> > I would have to say that my office is not paperless. However if all of my > purely electronic communication (email, documents, memos) was replaced with > paper copies then I would be swimming in a sea of paper. My feeling is that > we are already in the paper-less office era, but not paper free! > > Cheers > > Peter > Yes, and imagine how much more paper still, if we had to do without telephones. There would be thousands of little slips of telegrams on our desks. Au revoir! Alain Vaillancourt Montreal ndgmtlcd@gslis.lan.mcgill.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------- From darganm at iren.net Sat Nov 1 18:00:27 1997 From: darganm at iren.net (Michael Dargan) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Great Book! Message-ID: I've just finished the book _@Large: The Strange Case of the World's Biggest Internet Invasion_ (by David H. Freedmand and Charles C. Mann). Anyone who has a connection to the Internet would do well to read it. (Pretty scary!) Favorite quote: "The typical computer network isn't like a house with windows, doors, and locks. It's more like a gauze tent encircled by a band of drunk teenagers with lit matches." --- Michael J. Dargan office: 319 291 4496 Technical Systems Administrator fax: 319 291 6736 Waterloo and Cedar Falls Public Libraries Waterloo, IA 50701 From tull at acs.ucalgary.ca Sat Nov 1 19:00:34 1997 From: tull at acs.ucalgary.ca (C Eric Tull) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Need assistance diagnosing web problem In-Reply-To: ; from "web4lib@library.berkeley.edu" at Oct 31, 1997 1:24 pm Message-ID: <9711020000.AA84126@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> We have the same problem, but at the other end. We subscribe to two databases from Research Library Group (Anthropological Literature and Avery Index). We recently switched at the University of Calgary Library to Netscape 3. When we try to access these databases, we get into the database and then there is a long pause. Finally the message below appears on our screens. "Your browser sent a message that this server could not understand" We talked with RLG and they said that their system had trouble with a certain version of Netscape 3. We have had the same problem with other versions of Netscape 3, but Netscape 2.01 works fine. RLG did not indicate that they were correcting the problem. Since their system does not provide access if you use Internet Explorer or lynx, they are really limiting access to their subscribers. As we need to provide access to these databases, we are advising our users to use the telnet gateway. Are others having this problem with RLG databases? Does anyone have any insight as to what causes the problem? Two other housekeeping queries: 1. Does anyone have an easy method of responding to a particular Web4Lib message when you receive your messages in digest form? We use elm on AIX for e-mail. 2. Recently I have often received 2 or 3 copies of the digested messages. Are others experiencing this or is the problem local to my system. It's hard enough staying awake throgh one reading of the filtering messages, let alone 2 or 3. :) Eric Tull University of Calgary Library > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:59:59 -0500 > From: mack@janus.swem.wm.edu (Mack Lundy) > To: > Subject: Need assistance diagnosing web problem > Message-ID: <01bce626$ce121ad0$2a09ef80@macksdesk> > > Our library automation vedor is Sirsi. We are using Netscape's Enterprise > Server on a Sun 2000 server (Solaris 2.04) to access WebCat, sirsi's > front-end to the catalog. > > We are getting a significant number of calls from patrons having a problem > searching on WebCat. On the browser side, the user gets this message: > > "Your browser sent a message that this server could not understand" > > Here is the corresponding message from the error log that seems relevant: > > [28/Oct/1997:14:46:02] warning: for host 128.239.207.191, > http-parse-request > reports: while scanning HTTP headers, name without value: got line "post > /uhtbin/cgisirsi/61/5 http/1.0" > > The latest to complain is using the Netscape Gold v.3.03 browser. > > We can't reproduce the problem in the office. Monday, we will make an > office call to see the problem occur first-hand. In the meantime, I would > appreciate help on the cause and the solution to this problem. > > Thanks > > Mack > ----- > Mack A. Lundy III, Library Systems Manager > College of William and Mary, Swem Library > voice: 757.221.3114 fax: 757.221.2635 > email: mack@janus.swem.wm.edu > > From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Sun Nov 2 01:55:11 1997 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: FWD: SUMMARY: Distance Learning Questions (fwd) Message-ID: Posted by request. Roy -------------------------------------------------------- From: NAME: Deb Robertson FUNC: Library/Resource Center TEL: (402)644-0515 Subject: SUMMARY: Distance Learning Questions Date: 01-Nov-1997 Posted-date: 01-Nov-1997 Precedence: 1 To: NAME: Remote Addressee Hello: The following is a summary of the responses I have received after posting my questions regarding a distance education liaison librarian service and statistics showing the effectiveness of web based instruction. I would like to thank everyone who offered advice, and I am happy to respond with this summary. 1. Statistical Analysis Report: Distance Education in Higher Education http://nces.ed.gov/pubs98/distance/index.html 2. Distance Learning Instruction Librarian and Faculty Liaison Position open until November 7, 1997 http://www.lib.umn.edu/about/liaison.html 3. Article from LibraryLine Vol. 8, no. 4 "From the Margins To The Mainstream: Developing Library Support for Distance Learning" http://www.lib.umn.edu/pubs/LibLine/LLvol8no4.html 4. Doctoral Paper titled "The Effectiveness of CMC in Higher Education about three-fourths of the way through there is a section that deals with the effectiveness of on-line instruction http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~haythorn/cmc_bs.htm 5. Article from OnLine, Sept/Oct issue "Distance Learning Educating In Cyberspace" Requires a free subscription registration before access is allowed http://www.online-magazine.com/ 6. Article "Asking the Right Questions: What Does Research Tell Us About Technology and Higher Learning" http://www.aahe.org/technology/tltr-ch2.htm 7. Subscribe to listserv for Distance Education Librarians (OFFCAMP) To subscribe send the command: SUB OFFCAMP YOUR NAME to - listserv@wayne.edu To post send messages to: offcamp@lists.wayne.edu A few of the messages I recieved made reference to seeing my posting on a list called BI-L. I do not belong to this list, nor do I know who they are or how to post to them. If you forwarded my first posting maybe you would like to forward this one also. THANK YOU:-) ________________________________________________________________________________ Debora Robertson Email - debr@alpha.necc.cc.ne.us Library/Resource Center Phone - 402-644-0619 Northeast Community College FAX - 402-644-0555 801 East Benjamin Avenue PO Box 469 Norfolk, NE 68702-0469 From hgrady at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Tue Nov 4 08:51:01 1997 From: hgrady at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Heather Grady) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: University of Illinois uses SSN for this same identification. It allows patrons to e-mail their search results to their accounts. The number is not a necessary entry to use the database, one can login as a guest, but then lose the ability to email the records. I'm not sure of the legality of all that (although I assume it is legal since U of I is doing it). U of I also uses SSNs as the student id number. So, there is not another number that could be used for this identification. If you really reach a dead end in your search, I could put you in contact with people in the know! Heather Grady <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> Heather A. Grady Graduate Student in Library Science, University of Illinois Graduate Student Assistant--Applied Life Studies Library Http://www.library.uiuc.edu/alx/ (ALS Page) HGrady@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> From rhenning at fsc.follett.com Tue Nov 4 08:25:23 1997 From: rhenning at fsc.follett.com (Russell Henning) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: SSNs and User Authentication Message-ID: <9710048786.AA878660694@fsc.follett.com> Kathy writes: "...three librarians mentioned that they thought it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user authentication." It's not illegal, otherwise the insurance companies, credit card companies, etc., couldn't ask you for it. However, if you're interested in protecting your patrons' privacy (and I know you are), you won't use 'em. Credit card fraud is exploding. All that's needed is a name, SSN, and some other bits of info and you're somebody else. I'm sure you've all heard the horror stories regarding how long it takes the Credit Bureau-crats to clear up a wrongfully-sullied credit record. Don't give your SSN to any non-government, non-work-related entity; likewise don't ask anyone for it. Russ rhenning@fsc.follett.com From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Tue Nov 4 09:54:22 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication Message-ID: <01bce931$89786790$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Mcgreevy To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 9:13 PM Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication > >Our campus Computing Services Department is currently working on the user >authentication process that will validate our users for remote access >to IAC's SearchBank. They've proposed that people's >social security numbers be used as their login ID to the College's >online authentication process, i.e. a user will key in his/her SSN, a >computer on campus will check it to verify that s/he is currently enrolled >or employed here, and s/he'll be cleared for access to whatever we want >them to have access to. > >At a recent workshop, three librarians mentioned that they thought >it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user >authentication. (Not to mention that few people will want to anyway.) >Does anyone know anything about the legality of using SSNs for >authentication? (Haven't found anything in the archives of this list.) > Approx. 90 seconds of searching the web got me to http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10002.html and: "...Just as having a Social Security number is no longer a symbol of adulthood, the number's use is no longer confined to working and paying taxes. In ever increasing numbers, government agencies, schools, and businesses rely on Social Security numbers to identify people in their computer systems. Everyone seems to want your Social Security number. "The Social Security Administration (SSA) is aware of concerns about the increasing uses of the Social Security number for client identification and recordkeeping purposes. You should not use your Social Security card as an identification card..." IOW, SSA expects people to use the *number* for various purposes, but you should not/cannot use the actual card as ID. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From doylej at liberty.uc.wlu.edu Tue Nov 4 09:55:18 1997 From: doylej at liberty.uc.wlu.edu (John Doyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: look at http://cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/ssn.faq.html On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Kathy Mcgreevy wrote: > > Our campus Computing Services Department is currently working on the user > authentication process that will validate our users for remote access > to IAC's SearchBank. They've proposed that people's > social security numbers be used as their login ID to the College's > online authentication process, i.e. a user will key in his/her SSN, a > computer on campus will check it to verify that s/he is currently enrolled > or employed here, and s/he'll be cleared for access to whatever we want > them to have access to. > > At a recent workshop, three librarians mentioned that they thought > it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user > authentication. (Not to mention that few people will want to anyway.) > Does anyone know anything about the legality of using SSNs for > authentication? (Haven't found anything in the archives of this list.) > > Thanks for any info you can provide! > > ................................................................. > Kathy McGreevy kathy@floyd.santarosa.edu > Ref. Librarian, Electronic kathy@sonic.net > Network Services http://www.santarosa.edu/~kathy > > Santa Rosa Junior College voice: 1-707-527-4547 > Santa Rosa, CA 95401 fax: 1-707-527-4545 > ................................................................. > From msauers at bcr.org Tue Nov 4 09:56:13 1997 From: msauers at bcr.org (Michael Sauers) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication Message-ID: <01bce931$cbc6bd40$50912dc7@bcr.org.bcr.org> >At a recent workshop, three librarians mentioned that they thought >it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user >authentication. (Not to mention that few people will want to anyway.) >Does anyone know anything about the legality of using SSNs for >authentication? (Haven't found anything in the archives of this list.) This is my understanding of the SSN issue: You SSN is only for the purpose of identifying you the the Social Security Administration (SSA). However, over the years many institutions (govt. and private) and companies have found it convienent to use a person's SSN as an identification number. (The more this happens the more privacy advocates start to cringe). If a person (a student in your case) requests of the university that his/her SSN not be used as their ID number, that is well within their rights and the university must assign them another number. Schools tend to cringe at this since it means extra paperwork but they must. Although I personally don't like you requiring the students to use their SSNs to access the computers, if that is their student ID I don't see a "legal" problem with it. If someone complains you should send them along to andmissions and/or administration to deal with the issue. Michael Sauers msauers@bcr.org Internet Trainer (me)www.llv.com/~msauers/ Bibliographic Center for Research (BCR) (BCR)www.bcr.org All opinions expressed are just my own unless otherwise noted From jacques at olsn.on.ca Tue Nov 4 10:02:11 1997 From: jacques at olsn.on.ca (Jacques Presseault) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times References: <2.2.32.19971103134644.013679f0@pop3.service.emory.edu> Message-ID: <345F38F2.B8982128@olsn.on.ca> Bob Craigmile wrote: > Great little story about how useful libraries on the web are. Free of charge ... provided you are in the United States. :-I Thank you NY Times! :-o > > > http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/sites/110397sites.html > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ > Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian > Pitts Theology Library, Emory University > librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html > 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) -- Jacques Presseault jacques@olsn.on.ca Ontario Library Service - North (Sudbury) 334 Regent, Sudbury, Ont., P3C 4E2 http://www.library.on.ca/index.html Tel.: (705) 675-6433 Fax: (705) 671-2441 From jrervin at uncg.edu Tue Nov 4 10:19:38 1997 From: jrervin at uncg.edu (Justin R Ervin) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Web support pages for students In-Reply-To: <199711031600.QAA06493@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk> Message-ID: > I'm about to write a web page, for students, giving some help/advice > on using the internet in their studies, [...] > which will cover things like what is the internet, how to search it, > tips of most effective use in your studies, etc.. Jenny: Though I've not done exactly what you're planning to do, I have put together a few resources that are of a similar nature. "What's this thing called the Word-Wide Web?" is a very basic introduction to what the WWW is and how it works; http://www.uncg.edu/lib/eir/citi/help/web.html. I've also put together some course-specific pages for use during BI for a couple classes; they don't go into a lot of detail, but they do integrate the WWW into the research strategy that I suggest. http://www.uncg.edu/lib/eir/bi/. I hope that this helps! =================Justin R Ervin================== Computing Support Technician I Jackson Library Electronic Information Resources, UNCG jrervin@uncg.edu http://www.uncg.edu/~jrervin/ From dierauer at libofmich.lib.mi.us Tue Nov 4 10:30:37 1997 From: dierauer at libofmich.lib.mi.us (Beth Dierauer) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: SSNs and User Authentication In-Reply-To: <9710048786.AA878660694@fsc.follett.com> Message-ID: For more on the uses of SSNs, check out the federal publication "Your Social Security Number" at: http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/fed_prog/ssnumber.txt -Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------- Beth Dierauer, Reference Librarian dierauer@libofmich.lib.mi.us Library of Michigan, PO Box 30007, 717 W. Allegan, Lansing MI 48909 http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/ 517-373-1384 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Tue Nov 4 11:02:20 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Kathy Mcgreevy wrote: > At a recent workshop, three librarians mentioned that they thought > it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user > authentication. (Not to mention that few people will want to anyway.) > Does anyone know anything about the legality of using SSNs for > authentication? (Haven't found anything in the archives of this list.) Several institutions, including CUNY, use "SSN" (note the quotes) authentification for access to a variety of services, from paid databases to online student information. It's hard to imagine that with such widespread use that the practice would be illegal. We'd have heard about it with certainty by now. The potential illegality surrounding SSNs (and here I am not speaking as a lawyer, but as a librarian who has dealt with the issue in the past and as an educated citizen...laws and/or procedures may have changed since my last encounter) has to do with requiring someone to give the number to the institution in the first place when there is no proven necessity for it (e.g., a student receiving no Federal or Federally-assisted financial aid). It does not have to do with its use as a unique identification number once provided. And here is why I used the quotes above. From the scenario given: > online authentication process, i.e. a user will key in his/her SSN, a > computer on campus will check it to verify that s/he is currently enrolled > or employed here, and s/he'll be cleared for access to whatever we want > them to have access to. ...it looks like what you're planning to do is use a *student/employee number* for authentification and not specifically a SSN. If you have foreign students, many of them probably don't have a SSN and were assigned a number in the 3-2-4 format -- often beginning with 999- or 998- -- by the College (it's also possible that a domestic student with objections to giving out the SSN could have a similar assignment). This is the number that would be used for verification in such a case, correct? Requiring an actual SSN when not everyone even has one might also present legal problems. As for everyone else, the College already has the SSN, is using it for identification purposes, and presumably has made the students/staff are aware of this (if not, someone official might want to make it known). If this is the case, perhaps your Computing Department should call it by the "official" name, "student/employee number", and avoid double controversy that way. A possibility for placating those who might not want to use their SSN even if the College already has it would be using a "dummy" number as listed above. If your College already has a separate unique identification number (in the same format for students and staff) that is not equivalent to the SSN, perhaps Computing should consider using that number instead. You're not providing access to sensitive information (like student records) so a number which is supposed to be kept confidential (though in a past job, students would just hand over their SSN's to another for access to certain things without thinking..."Would you check my overdue books for me while you're at the computing center? My ID number is...") isn't strictly necessary. All you probably need to meet your license agreement is a way of verification (perhaps a method could be devised to block out a specific ID once it is in use...this would reduce fraudulent use from someone handing out his/her ID to anyone around the world, and it would allow use of a non-SSN identifier). Again, I'm not a lawyer, just practical. Byron Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Tue Nov 4 11:25:46 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: [FYI] An example of an emerging electronic "book" technology. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971104112546.00995780@nlc-bnc.ca> Hello gentle subscribers, A recent thread on Web4Lib about electronic libraries and paperless offices brought up a couple of questions regarding future technologies for electronic books. A recent article in the IBM Systems Journal describes a project at MIT which is working on "e-ink" and other technologies that "reinvent" the display of electronic text. The article provides an intriguing look at a very cool future technology. This development is, to my mind, still some distance from a marketable and affordable product that will match the current interface advantages and cost efficiencies of paper. But the article is also notable for its clear, short articulation of the advantages the book format has and a recognition that the objective is to enhance this display technology, not necessarily replace it. A very interesting article. For further information, see: J. Jacobson, C. Turner, J. Albert, and P. Tsao, "The last book," IBM Systems Journal, Vol 36, No. 3 1997. "In this paper we describe our efforts at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Laboratory toward realizing an electronic book comprised of hundreds of electronically addressable display pages printed on real paper substrates. Such pages may be typeset in situ, thus giving such a book the capability to be any book. We outline the technology we are developing to bring this about and describe a number of applications that such a device enables." The article is available online at: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/journal/sj/363/jacobson.html Enjoy. -terry --------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Terry Kuny Home Office: 819-776-6602 XIST Inc./ Email: terry.kuny@xist.com Global Village Research URL: http://xist.com/kuny/ Snail: Box 1141, St. B, Hull, Quebec, Canada --------------------------------------------------------------- From wendywu at med.wayne.edu Tue Nov 4 11:33:52 1997 From: wendywu at med.wayne.edu (Wendy Wu) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: How to add MIME mapping to NT server 4? Message-ID: <345F4E6F.8DDEE2A7@med.wayne.edu> Dear Friends, We try to put a PowerPoint Animation file (.ppz) on our NT server. We have NT server 4.0 and installed IIS (Internet Information Server). We followed the instruction downloaded from Microsoft about how to add PowerPoint Animation support to the Web server. Unfortunately it only work for Internet Explore browser, not Netscape. Could you give us a clue to make it work for both browsers? TIA. -- Wendy Wu Shiffman Medical Library 313-577-0586 Wayne State University Fax: 313-577-0706 4325 Brush Street wendywu@med.wayne.edu Detroit, MI USA 48201 From cbearden at sparc.hpl.lib.tx.us Tue Nov 4 07:09:56 1997 From: cbearden at sparc.hpl.lib.tx.us (Chuck Bearden) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Proxy autoconfig & choice of filtering or not Message-ID: <199711041802.MAA15192@sparc.hpl.lib.tx.us> I have just discovered the wonderful world of proxy autoconfig files. I understand the basics of writing and serving them, but I would like advice on a more advanced application. Can I create a pair of Javascript buttons in a browser window, one for filtered access and one for non-filtered access, such that clicking on the one for filtered access will automatically set the browser to go through our filtering proxy, and such that clicking on the one for non-filtered access will undo any proxy settings that may have been set? We're running Netscape 3.0x at the moment. I can imagine this being accomplished in two ways. In the first, Javascript embedded in the page in question evaluates the user's action (which of two buttons are clicked) modifies the browser's behavior accordingly. I would perhaps make this page or section retrievable only by workstations whose IP addresses are in our ranges (conditional includes or MultiViews or something). This possibility scares me a little bit, because it suggests that anyone could write a clever Javascript to hijack an unwitting browser's connections to pass through an arbitrary proxy that may well rewrite subsequent URLs, or even page content. I also suspect that Netscape calls the FindProxyForURL function internally, as it prepares to retrieve a URL, and won't pay attention to its value generated on the web page. The second way I imagine is to write a proxy autoconfig file in such a way that it can take values passed to it from a Javascript embedded in the page with the buttons, and act conditionally on those values to return PROXY or DIRECT instructions to the browser. I.e., there are two pieces: the Javascript event handler in the page, which sets up the buttons, evaluates the user's actions, and passes the results to the proxy autoconfig, and the proxy autoconfig itself, that has to be written in such a way as to be able to receive values from the Javascript event handler embedded in the page and set proxying behavior accordingly. This method seems better to me. I have tried retrieving a .pac file through a link in a web page, but Netscape rejects proxy autoconfig files retrieved in this manner. Any ideas? I do plan to work my way through Netscape's tutorials on Javascript bit by bit, but it will take a while to do that. Thanks in advance. Chuck Bearden Network Services Librarian Houston Public Library Houston, TX 77002 713/247-2264 (voice) 713/247-1182 (fax) cbearden@hpl.lib.tx.us From jsarber at statelib.lib.in.us Tue Nov 4 08:24:04 1997 From: jsarber at statelib.lib.in.us (Jennifer Sarber) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Staff directories References: Message-ID: <345F21F1.6B36905@statelib.lib.in.us> Greetings Christopher: I felt that as a whole the State Library of Indiana should have a staff listing by division. I was out voted. However one of our divisions, Library Development Office, wanted to do it for their own division, so they have: http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/WWW/LDO/LDOPRO.HTML It list name, job title, description of job, and phone number. Their names are linked to e-mail. This division felt because of their duties and they mail out fliers every quarter with this same information it would not pose problems. Other divisions felt they did not want any information published about themselves. Another reason of concern is will it lead to an overload of incoming (e-mail and phone) request of both serious and bogus matters. In Library Development Office this is not the case. Would it be if our Reference Division or other public service area listed their staff members? The issue of continually updating the list as staff or job description changes was also an important factor. Not that we have a high turn over rate, or our job descriptions continues to change! I think how it really went at our library is: we discussed it, nobody except Library Development Office wanted to commit. The matter was dropped I hope that we bring it up again in the future. One more comment I would like to make: I once had my name and number listed on a web page I created, I did get a lot of calls about information on that particular page. I do not know if people were more apt to call because my name and number were there or if they would have tried to follow up with the library for more information anyway. I hope this helps. Jennifer > I'm looking for feedback/opinions on the issue of staff directories on a > public library website. We intend to create one, probably giving the job > title, department, and email address of all staff members. > > How many of you in public libraries have something similar? Were staff > concerned about their privacy? What sort of information do you provide? > If you have such a directory, we'd love to take a look. -- Jennifer Sarber Indiana State Library Management Information Services jsarber@statelib.lib.in.us http://www.statelib.lib.in.us From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Tue Nov 4 12:50:04 1997 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: CLA Internet Booth Volunteers needed Message-ID: I apologize for the short notice but am desperately seeking volunteers for the CLA Internet Booth which is sponsored by the CLA Information Technology Committee. Here is the information that I received from Vickie Johnson (IT President): >The Internet Booth is open when the exhibits are open-- >12:00 - 5:00 Saturday >9:00 - 4:00 Sunday >9:00 - 2:00 Monday > >According to Tom Smorch "Volunteers in the INTERNET Booth >need: to know a little about the INTERNET; how to free a stuck >machine; how to get into email; encourage people to take any >handouts; help with searches etc. >Shifts have usually been 1-1 1/2 hours. The schedule will be at the >booth for people to check when they are signed up and so they will >know who their replacements are." The booth is open 17 hours so we probably need at least 17 people, the more the better! Please respond to me (Linda Hyman) at lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu or (619) 594-4414 if you are interested and tell me the hours that you are willing to take. This can be alot of fun and a great way to meet old friends and new people. Please help. Thanks alot. Linda Woods Hyman Pacific Bell Education First Dept. of Educational Technology San Diego State University San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Tue Nov 4 13:41:10 1997 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Web support pages for students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> I'm about to write a web page, for students, giving some help/advice >> on using the internet in their studies, You didn't say what age the students were but please take a look at some of the sites that have been developed at San Diego State University's Department of Educational Technology: "Doing the WebQuest" (http://edweb.sdsu.edu/edfirst/courses/) which contains numerous activities and links that can easily be adapted for classroom and library use including: 1. "The Web for Educators" (http://edweb.sdsu.edu/edfirst/courses/web_for_ed.html) integrating technology into the classroom 2. "Surf, Stumble, Search and Lurch" (http://edweb.sdsu.edu/courses/EDTEC572/search.html) searching activity 3. "Filamentality" (http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/fil) allows students to create hotlists, treasure hunts, electronic samplers, webquests) For specific applications that students can do see these Pacific Bell Education First sites: 1. Searching for China (http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/China/index.html) 2. Eyes on Art http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/art/art.html 3. Donner Online http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/donner/index.html 4. Black History Past and Present http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/BHM/AfroAm.html Finally, take a look at Kathy Schrock's Guide for Educators http://www.capecod.net/schrockguide/eval.htm to help students evaluate the materials that they find. Can also be adapted for other information resources to teach information literacy skills. Linda Woods Hyman Pacific Bell Education First Dept. of Educational Technology San Diego State University San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired From day at indiana.edu Tue Nov 4 14:57:10 1997 From: day at indiana.edu (Dorothy Day) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times In-Reply-To: <345F38F2.B8982128@olsn.on.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Jacques Presseault wrote: > Bob Craigmile wrote: > >> Great little story about how useful libraries on the web are. > > Free of charge ... provided you are in the United States. :-I > > Thank you NY Times! :-o While it's good to have high-profile recognition of the value of library services on the web, I do hope UC Berkeley has prepared a response to Dvorak's statement: Unfortunately, there are some disappointments. The University of California at Berkeley went online too early and saddled itself with an old-fashioned, teletype-oriented system. This system is vastly outdated, as is the similar Orion system at the University of California at Los Angeles. In libraries, what is "too early?" Should Berkeley and UCLA have waited for 1997 developments to roll out the slick web site that Dvorak seems to have missed? If they had waited and watched (like a prudent business trying to gauge profit from web enterprise), where would all of us be now? Castigated by pundits like Dvorak for being hopelessly unprepared for the information age, that's where. ***** Dorothy Day School of Library and Information Science Indiana University day@indiana.edu ***** "He also surfs who only sits and waits." From palsson at rohan.sdsu.edu Tue Nov 4 18:30:08 1997 From: palsson at rohan.sdsu.edu (Jerry Palsson) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:02 2005 Subject: Position Announcement -- SDSU Library Dean Message-ID: <199711042330.PAA19992@rohan.sdsu.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3053 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971104/652587a9/attachment.bat From dbarclay at Bayou.UH.EDU Fri Nov 7 08:41:38 1997 From: dbarclay at Bayou.UH.EDU (Donald Barclay) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: phrase needed In-Reply-To: <3462A13C.322F@fuse.net> Message-ID: I've heard such searches called "nested searches," but this may not be the universally accepted term. Could there be a term from algebra that describes such searches? Donald A. Barclay Coordinator of Electronic Services always the beautiful answer University of Houston Libraries who asks a more beautiful question dbarclay@uh.edu --e.e. cummings www.uh.edu/~dbarclay On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, bruce pomerantz wrote: > Dear Web4Libers, > > Hope you take the adage, "The only dumb question is the one unasked" to > heart as I ask: > > In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you > use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: > > (Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) > > Thanks for not laughing. > > Bruce Pomerantz > On Sabbatical in Cincinnati > From tj662 at cnsvax.albany.edu Fri Nov 7 08:47:53 1997 From: tj662 at cnsvax.albany.edu (Trudi Jacobson) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Vacancy: Networked Resources Education Librarian, U. at Albany Message-ID: VACANCY NOTICE POSITION: Networked Resources Education Librarian RESPONSIBILITIES: Under the direction of the Coordinator of User Education Programs, the Networked Resources Education Librarian is responsible for designing and implementing library instructional services for a networked information environment where user self-sufficiency is vital and remote access is increasingly the norm. The librarian will develop and teach classes covering a variety of networked resources and tools and will design and implement instructional materials (tutorials, help screens, etc.) for use in a Web-based Library Wide Information System. The librarian will actively promote and market library programs and services to a diverse university community and participate in providing general reference services, including evening and weekend hours. Reports to the Head, Reference Services Department. Research, publication and service to the Libraries, university and profession are expected to satisfy criteria for continuing appointment and promotion. QUALIFICATIONS: Required: A master's degree accredited by the American Library Association or the equivalent library professional degree accredited by an appropriate foreign association; one year public service experience in an academic or large public library; demonstrated expertise in producing print, web-based, and other electronic user resources; knowledge of HTML and other Web protocols; ability to plan and implement new programs and services; and strong oral, written communication and interpersonal skills. Preferred: Instructional design experience. SALARY: Commensurate with education and experience. Salary minimum for Assistant Librarian $28,000; Senior Assistant Librarian $32,000. TERMS & BENEFITS: Twelve month appointment; sick leave and annual leave @ 1.25 days each per month; dental; vision; health insurance, major medical or Health Maintenance Organization. Social Security coverage. TIAA/CREF or New York State Teachers Retirement available (employee contribution rate = 3%). CAMPUS & COMMUNITY: The University at Albany is the oldest state chartered public institution of higher education in New York. Established in 1844, Albany celebrated its sesquicentennial in 1994. Designated as a University Center of the State University of New York, Albany has a broad mission of undergraduate and graduate education, research and public service. More than 16,000 students are enrolled in the eight degree-granting schools and colleges of the University, which is noted for its achievement of both diversity and excellence. The Albany area provides a wide range of cultural and recreational opportunities. The University is located in New York's Capital Region, 150 miles north of New York City, 150 miles west of Boston. The Capital Region has a population of approximately 750,000. APPLY TO: Christine M. Travis, Library Personnel Officer University Libraries - UL-112 University at Albany State University of New York 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, New York 12222 DEADLINE: Review of letters of application and resumes will begin December 20, 1997. Please include the names, addresses, and phone numbers of three references that may be contacted. THE UNIVERSITY AT ALBANY IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY/AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER. From emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com Fri Nov 7 09:06:00 1997 From: emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com (emiller@smtpgwy.isinet.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: phrase needed Message-ID: <9710078789.AA878922558@smtpgwy.isinet.com> According the "Effective Online Searching: A Basic Text" (by Borgman, Moghdam and Corbett, this would be referred to as a "compound" or a "multiple concept" search strategy. Hope this helps. Elisa Miller "Whatever you can do or Institute for Scientific Information dream you can, begin it. 3501 Market Street Boldness has genius, power Philadelphia, Pa 19104 and magic in it." (215)386-0100 x 1395 Goethe emiller@isinet.com URL - http://www.isinet.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: phrase needed Author: brucep@fuse.net at INTERNET Date: 11/6/97 9:37 PM Dear Web4Libers, Hope you take the adage, "The only dumb question is the one unasked" to heart as I ask: In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: (Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) Thanks for not laughing. Bruce Pomerantz On Sabbatical in Cincinnati From courtois at aztec.lib.utk.edu Fri Nov 7 09:16:09 1997 From: courtois at aztec.lib.utk.edu (Martin Courtois) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: <199711062343.SAA17063@script.lib.indiana.edu> Message-ID: Much of the exchange on this topic centers around the fact that we know very little about how search engines operate. Compared to our knowledge of bibliographic database systems, such as DIALOG, OCLC, SilverPlatter, etc., we are very much in the dark. We're used to extensive documentation from and frequent dialogue with bibliographic database vendors, two things that just haven't happened with search engine producers. It seems likely that if search engine producers provided more documentation on their retrieval schemes, it would only be misused by spammers. Or, maybe new anti-spamming techniques would be found. But I still think we need to push for more exchange with search engine producers and let them know they have an academic/research market. I see some evidence that we're headed in this direction: HotBot's presence at ACRL and ALA conferences (where are the other producers???), and librarians and search engine producers on the same program at Internet Librarian. The "Authoritative Guide to Web Search Engines" is a terrific guide to the basic underpinnings of search engines, but we really won't have an "authoritative" guide until we get more information from the true "authorities," the search engine producers. ********************************************************* Martin Courtois Biological Sciences Reference Librarian Hodges Library University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 37996-1000 423-974-8693 mcourtois@utk.edu ********************************************************* From TOMAIUOLON at CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU Fri Nov 7 09:26:10 1997 From: TOMAIUOLON at CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU (N. TOMAIUOLO, INSTRUCTION LIBRARIAN, CCSU) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <971107092610.20240159@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Colleagues, For the past couple of days we have been discussing the gross inconsistencies of www search engines. Erroneous results from "top" engines for subjects including "date rape" and "roman sites" were reported. One colleague said (tongue not so firmly in cheek) as much as "then you cannot search for date rape". Explanations were profferedthat some search words are "concealed" (i.e., date and sites in the above examples). Furthermore, it was mentioned that the concealed "stopwords" could change with every "crawl". This type of news is unsettling for the professional searcher, the librarian who tries to teach about engines, and should be very alarming to the end-user. If search engines do not a) work as they should per the engine's own help pages or b) work inconsistently, there is the *theoretical* point of why bothering to have them at all. LookSmart, Excite, and Yahoo could be relied on for hierarchical directory type searches. The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products, I'm wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy with the web. "The Web made simple" book, and "Search Engine Secrets ofthe Pros" (PC World article) nothwithstanding -- these engines including AltaVista, Lycos, InfoSeek, et al, do not perform as they should on a consistent basis. Is this vexing anyone besides me? Nicholas G. Tomaiuolo, MLS Bibliographic Instruction Librarian Central Connecticut State University Library Reference Department New Britain, CT 06050 http://library.ccsu.ctstateu.edu/~bibman email= tomaiuolon@ccsu.ctstateu.edu phone= (860) 832-2068 fax= (860) 832-3409 From KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU Fri Nov 7 09:27:44 1997 From: KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply Message-ID: Along similar lines, has anyone been able to view all of the results from a search (over 500 hits)? I did a search for medical residency sites which yielded over 10,000 hits. Over a period of several days, I viewed these results, 10 or 20 at a time (I think it was Excite), bookmarking the last page I visited at the end of the day. When I got to the 500th result and hit the 'next' button, the same 490-500 were displayed. I could go no further. I tried the search a couple of times, but still could go no further than 500. Is this common with all search engines? Is there a trick around it? I know that viewing more than a few sites will not usually be necessary, but my concerns go deeper than that. I would like to do some research on web sites, and would like to be able to pull up thousands of sites, not just the first 500. I know that research has been done, but I don't know how they succeeded if the search engine stops at 500. Any ideas? Karen R. Harker, Information Resources Center Web Developer UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75235 214-648-2001, fax: 214-648-3007 http://www.swmed.edu/home_pages/library/ From wfeidt at nal.usda.gov Fri Nov 7 09:38:35 1997 From: wfeidt at nal.usda.gov (Bill Feidt) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: phrase needed Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971107093842.096f1836@nal.usda.gov> These are normally called "compound" search statements, I believe. A good Web page covering the concepts is: http://www.lib.ua.edu/boolean.htm Bill Feidt NAL wfeidt@nal.usda.gov At 06:11 AM 11/7/97 -0800, Donald Barclay wrote: >I've heard such searches called "nested searches," but this may not be the >universally accepted term. Could there be a term from algebra that >describes such searches? >On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, bruce pomerantz wrote: >> Hope you take the adage, "The only dumb question is the one unasked" to >> heart as I ask: >> >> In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you >> use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: >> >> (Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) >> >> Thanks for not laughing. >> >> Bruce Pomerantz >> On Sabbatical in Cincinnati From L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 7 10:07:21 1997 From: L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk (Leonard Will) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: phrase needed In-Reply-To: <3462A13C.322F@fuse.net> Message-ID: In article <3462A13C.322F@fuse.net>, bruce pomerantz writes > >In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you >use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: > >(Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) > I've heard these called "Chinese menu" searches, presumably on the principle that you ask for (boiled rice OR fried rice OR special fried rice) AND (sweet & sour pork OR sweet & sour chicken) AND (braised cabbage OR steamed broccoli OR etc...) I think that Elisa Miller's suggestion of a "multiple concept" search is clearest, because what you are looking for is the intersection of several concepts, each of which may be expressed as one or more terms. I find that almost every search I want to do is of this type, and I find it very frustrating that so few WWW search engines allow me to express it in this way. The worst ones are those which say "Just type your enquiry in this box in your own words" without giving any control over how the words will be processed. I don't think that this should be called a "nested search", as Donald Barclay suggested: it would be better to keep that term to cases where there are two levels of parentheses, one within the other, e.g. rice AND (chicken OR (chestnuts AND pork)) Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- From wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca Fri Nov 7 10:44:42 1997 From: wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca (Wayne Daniels) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance -Reply Message-ID: Yes it is vexing, but unsurprising. I think that as long as users have a distorted idea of what can and cannot be done with a search engine, they are apt to experience frustration. I read with sympathy and interest of attempts to make engines more efficient, perhaps more truly representative of the knowledge-seeking behaviour of users. The trouble with the latter aim is that it tends to work best at a level of some sophistication. Most users are, I suspect, at the level of average persons who approach the reference desk of a library. They have difficulty formulating the precise nature of what they require and, even if they *have* hit upon a phrase they think describes it, find it hard to map that expression against another set of linguistic coordinates that would more likely result in a successful search. This is not news. People in libraries, even quite intelligent ones, tend not to want to know how the librarian found the material. How much less likely are such people to be successful without an intermediary. That's why I am particularly interested (and have been involved) in exploring the possibilities of a classified approach to knowledge management. But that is another topic. Best, Wayne Daniels Metro Toronto Reference Library wdaniels@gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca >>> "N. TOMAIUOLO, INSTRUCTION LIBRARIAN, CCSU" 11/7/97, 10:03am >>> Colleagues, For the past couple of days we have been discussing the gross inconsistencies of www search engines. Erroneous results from "top" engines for subjects including "date rape" and "roman sites" were reported. One colleague said (tongue not so firmly in cheek) as much as "then you cannot search for date rape". Explanations were profferedthat some search words are "concealed" (i.e., date and sites in the above examples). Furthermore, it was mentioned that the concealed "stopwords" could change with every "crawl". This type of news is unsettling for the professional searcher, the librarian who tries to teach about engines, and should be very alarming to the end-user. If search engines do not a) work as they should per the engine's own help pages or b) work inconsistently, there is the *theoretical* point of why bothering to have them at all. LookSmart, Excite, and Yahoo could be relied on for hierarchical directory type searches. The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products, I'm wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy with the web. "The Web made simple" book, and "Search Engine Secrets ofthe Pros" (PC World article) nothwithstanding -- these engines including AltaVista, Lycos, InfoSeek, et al, do not perform as they should on a consistent basis. Is this vexing anyone besides me? Nicholas G. Tomaiuolo, MLS Bibliographic Instruction Librarian Central Connecticut State University Library Reference Department New Britain, CT 06050 http://library.ccsu.ctstateu.edu/~bibman email= tomaiuolon@ccsu.ctstateu.edu phone= (860) 832-2068 fax= (860) 832-3409 From stew at library.umass.edu Fri Nov 7 10:53:50 1997 From: stew at library.umass.edu (Barbara Stewart) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, Karen Harker wrote: > page I visited at the end of the day. When I got to the 500th result and hit > the 'next' button, the same 490-500 were displayed. I could go no > further. I tried the search a couple of times, but still could go no further > than 500. > > Is this common with all search engines? Is there a trick around it? Yes, there's a trick around it, at least in Alta Vista (which only displays 200 hits, many of them duplicated). When I approach the end of the first 200 hits, or see that there is maximum duplication, I usually take a section of the URL in the duplicated messages and add a minus sign, and redo the search. Say cornell is in the URL for a search on "technical services". I would repeat the search like this: +"technical services" -cornell I think about 5 or 6 minuses can be used per search. Barbara Stewart Latin American Cataloger, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Amherst, MA 01003 (413) 545-2728 stew@library.umass.edu - From Rible at sou.edu Fri Nov 7 11:41:56 1997 From: Rible at sou.edu (Jim Rible) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace Message-ID: I was wondering what others experiences have been like with "globally" (i.e. across many files all at once) replacing text in HTML documents. I have used Sitemill and it placed an "A" with an umlaut at the bottom of every page. Fortunately I only did this across six files so I could easily delete them. I have also used the site manager that came with Corel's Webmaster suite. This little "gem" left extra HTML codes at the bottom of every page. Unfortunately I did this across several hundred files and there is no way to clean it up since evey page has a different set of codes left at the bottom.. I finally have found a good tool in Coast Software's Webmaster 2.0 (the first version of which was included with Corel's suite). Coast Webmaster seems to work just fine. Any other horror stories? Jim Rible Southern Oregon University rible@sou.edu From narnett at verity.com Fri Nov 7 09:29:42 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: "Classified" approach to KM? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971107142942.00c0deac@verity.com> At 08:22 AM 11/7/97 -0800, Wayne Daniels wrote: >That's why I am particularly interested (and have been >involved) in exploring the possibilities of a classified approach to >knowledge management. But that is another topic. I'm intrigued. What do you mean by this? Nick Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Fri Nov 7 12:39:03 1997 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim Rible writes: >I was wondering what others experiences have been like with "globally" (i.e. >across many files all at once) replacing text in HTML documents. I do this fairly often with BBEdit (sorry, Mac only), both Lite and Pro, across hundreds of files simultaneously. I have never had any problems with it aside from occasional RAM cram. It also searches recursively through subdirectories if you tell it to, and has several options for reporting, saving, and verifying replacements. >Any other horror stories? Aw, why focus on the negative? Let's hear what *works*. I'd like to be able to recommend something to my poor benighted Windows colleagues! PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman University of Wisconsin General Library System Automation Services pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu (608) 265-5291 From perez at opac.osl.state.or.us Fri Nov 7 12:43:25 1997 From: perez at opac.osl.state.or.us (Ernest Perez) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance References: <971107092610.20240159@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Message-ID: <3463533D.92197359@opac.osl.state.or.us> Nicholas G. Tomaiuolo, MLS wrote: > The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of > powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products, I'm > wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy with the web. > "The Web made simple" book, and "Search Engine Secrets ofthe Pros" (PC World > article) nothwithstanding -- these engines including AltaVista, Lycos, InfoSeek, > et al, do not perform as they should on a consistent basis. Is this vexing > anyone besides me? Although I understand the irritation arising from the inconsistencies of the search engines, I think we're really beating the subject to death. I'd like to make some observations: ** Yes, there are inconsistencies in the indexing algorithms and search syntax/vocabulary. Just like there are lots of different brands of word processors or spreadsheets or automobiles. "That's the American way," or more broadly just the way of humans who think they have a better idea. Why not pick the one that appears to satisfy you best and leave it at that? Free market choice, etc. ** Yes, these search engines are not as predictable and controlled as the old commercial database products. They are also products of a new information access paradigm. They use software-intensive methods, not human-intensive judgment and expense. On the other hand, the search engine index surrogate is based upon the full content of source docs, and is NOT dependent upon a human's subjective judgment and a bizarre controlled vocabulary. ** We can quibble about Search Engine X getting 22,000 hits vs. Search Engine Y getting 14,000 hits. So what, do you plan on examining all of them? These systems operate on presentation ranking algorithms, and they attempt to present relevant items first. _I'm_ certainly not going to look at item #4,763, and I presume you aren't going to either. ** Another part of the new paradigm is that the search engines are supported by advertising and software sales, and they are free (gasp) to end users. Not $nn per hour, or per hit, or $nnnn per year. Can anyone say that about "Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products"? (Or even newspapers, magazines, etc.) Given this shift in producer profit motive, which sources might you say are going to be more used by you, me, and the (wo)man on the street? I haven't got a spare $20 or $60 to use to satisfy every information need! ** Some of the comments seem to question, "How can we stand to use these shoddy products?" My own reason for using them is that they tend to find me the information I want, quickly and easily and cheaply. I agree, they ain't perfect. I use one or another, depending upon my whim, or which link is closer at hand. I am most comfortable and expert with Alta Vista. But, if I want to do an "exhaustive" scan, I use one of the "agent" tools, which searches multiple search engines, and tries to give you a synthesis of the resulting information retrieval sets. Finally, I attach below text taken from a recent message from John Creech, passed along to me by a colleague who I believe found it on another list. It's really more on the topic of the "new model" of library information. But it also applies very much to this "inconsistencies" discussion that's been raging of late. Cheers, -ernest Ernest Perez, Ph.D.//Oregon State Library//perez@opac.osl.state.or.us --------------------------------------------------------------------- A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn. > ... People don't want "all the > information that exists in the library." Perennial patron behavior + free > choice = I want 1 book, 2 journal articles, 1 magazine and I want to get > the hell out of here. > > I came here recently from 2 years at Cal. State U., Monterey Bay, where we > were charged by Chancellor to stand this old educational paradigm on its > head. We were ordered to deliver information electronically whenever > possible, and only to supplement with paper. The intention from the > get-go was for students to retrieve full text from anywhere, to search > full text databases, to search cite and abs. databases, copy and paste the > citation into an electronic doc. delivery form, and send via Web page to > library ILL. Patron might have to come into lib. only to pick up > photocopies and books to check out. > > While we have much larger print collections here, we're moving (albeit > more slowly) in similar directions. It is not my job to make miniature > librarians out of students who come in. If they want to learn more about > conducting comprehensive research, I'm here, willing...yea even eager, > to help. That's a key part of my job. > > But I do not believe for a minute that I'm not doing my job if I don't > show them everything that's in the library - bibliographies, NUC, Lib. of > Am. Civilization, etc. > > John Creech > Electronic Resources Librarian & Asst. Head of Reference | Central Washington > University Library | 400 E. 8th Ave. | Ellensburg, WA 98926 | 509-963-1081 | > jcreech@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu | From mpollard at calstate.edu Fri Nov 7 13:04:11 1997 From: mpollard at calstate.edu (Marvin E. Pollard, Jr.) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance References: <971107092610.20240159@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Message-ID: <3463580C.30A1B54C@calstate.edu> I was following the discussion about Web search engines and came across a comment about being not being able to search for "date rape." I tried this search on my favorite search engine; Northern Light , and got, what I consider to be, very useful results. Perhaps the short term solution is to switch rather than fight, that is, vote with your index finger and choose a search engine that offers more precise searching. Northern Light Search Results: Your search returned 24,145 items which we have organized into the following Custom Search Folders: Date rape Personal pages Educational sites Rape & sexual assault Epidemics Sexual abuse website-1.com College & university student affairs Toxicology (medical specialty) Feminism all others... Patent Pending 1. Researching the "Rape Culture" of America 92% - Articles & General info: Researching the "Rape Culture" of America The Real Issue Researching the "Rape Culture" of America An Investigation of Feminist Claims about Rape By Christina Hoff... Date Not Available Commercial site: http://www.leaderu.com /real/ri9502 /sommers.html 2. Understanding Date Rape 91% - Articles & General info: Understanding Date Rape Understanding Date Rape Carol was so excited when Dave asked her out. They had a great time at dinner and a movie,... 11/20/96 Educational site: http://www.messiah.edu /campserv /cservice/DR.HTM 3. Valencia West LRC--Date Rape 91% - Directories & Lists: Valencia West LRC--Date Rape Date Rape Pathfinder July 1996 SCOPE: Dire warnings about date rape together with the specter of AIDS have cast a grim... 05/06/97 Educational site: http://valencia.cc.fl.us /lrcwest /daterape.html 4. How do date rape and acquaintance rape differ? 89% - Articles & General info: How do date rape and acquaintance rape differ? Many people use the terms "date rape" and "acquaintance rape" interchangeably.... The similarity is that the perpetrator... 06/08/95 Educational site: http://linear.chsra.wisc.edu /chsra /chess/CHEN-FU /sa-11.htm 5. CDC Issues Warning on Date Rape Drug (4/4) 89% - Articles & General info: CDC Issues Warning on Date Rape Drug (4/4) CND ARTICLE CDC Issues Warning on Date Rape Drug (4/4) By M.... Date Not Available Commercial site: http://nytsyn.com /live/Week/094_040497_154221_21210.html 6. Date Rape 89% - Directories & Lists: Date Rape Date Rape-The Ultimate Violation of Trust This powerful video presents the viewer with the facts about date rape. The 20-minute video explores this... 05/13/97 Commercial site: http://www.hartinc.com /siv/rape.htm 7. National Clearinghouse on Marital and Date Rape 88% - Articles & General info: National Clearinghouse on Marital and Date Rape Previous group * Next group * Top of A Bay Area Progressive Directory National Clearinghouse on Marital and... 01/22/97 Personal page: http://www.divtech.com /~cheetham /gnaope-1.html 8. Date Rape's Other Victim 88% - Articles & General info: Date Rape's Other Victim [Overview] [Options] [Search] [New] [Disclaimer] [Mailing List] [Contents] [People] [Issues] [Library] [Reviews] [HMV] [Web] [Contact] [Overview] [Options] [Power Search] [What's New]... Date Not Available Commercial site: http://cycad.com /cgi-bin/Upstream /Issues/fem /roiphe-nyt.html 9. Date rape drug incidents increase 87% - Articles & General info: Date rape drug incidents increase ... 05/14/97 Commercial site: http://www.green-river.com /3415512p3.htm 10. Roofies; Date Rape Drug of Choice 87% - Articles & General info: Roofies; Date Rape Drug of Choice FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: 15:00CST-01/06/9... 'Roofies', The New "Date Rape" Drug of Choice By Clark Staten, ERRI Executive Director Chicago,... 08/18/97 Commercial site: http://emernet.emergency.com /roofies.htm 11. Date Rape's Other Victim 86% - Articles & General info: Date Rape's Other Victim [Overview] [Options] [Search] [New] [Disclaimer] [Mailing List] [Contents] [People] [Issues] [Library] [Reviews] [HMV] [Web] [Contact] [Overview] [Options] [Power Search] [What's New]... Date Not Available Commercial site: http://www.cycad.com /cgi-bin/Upstream /Issues /fem/roiphe-nyt.html 12. ROBERT CROWN CENTER FOR HEALTH EDUCATION'S DATE RAPE PREVENTION PROGRAM 86% - Articles & General info: ROBERT CROWN CENTER FOR HEALTH EDUCATION'S DATE RAPE PREVENTION PROGRAM RED LIGHT/GREEN LIGHT: THE DATING GAME This program is aimed at students who are sophomores... 08/05/97 Personal page: http://www.anet-chi.com /~rcche /date.html 13. The Brazos County Rape Crisis Center, Inc. 85% - Articles & General info: The Brazos County Rape Crisis Center, Inc. Date Rape: THE BRAZOS COUNTY RAPE CRISIS CENTER, INC. in Bryan, Texas is an organization of concerned women... 05/09/97 Commercial site: http://rapecrisis.txcyber.com /date-rape.html 14. Texas A&M International Slates Talk On Date Rape Sept. 85% - Articles & General info: Texas A&M International Slates Talk On Date Rape Sept. 10 Texas A&M International Slates Talk On Date Rape Sept. 10 Texas A&M International University will... 01/01/96 Educational site: http://www.tamiu.edu /newsinfo /nrelease/1996 /sep/sep4/article4.htm 15. Assault Robbery CRIME VIOLENCE RAPE MURDER Cons Abuse Burglary 84% - Directories & Lists: Assault Robbery CRIME VIOLENCE RAPE MURDER Cons Abuse Burglary Assault? CRIME-DETECTIVES... SCIENTIFIC SPECIALISTS... Researchers, Developers, & Publishers... offer: Amazing New TruthsAbout Your Emotions !! Welcome!... Date Not Available Commercial site: http://website-1.com /goto-88.html -- Marvin E. Pollard, Jr. mpollard@calstate.edu Project Manager Unified Information Access System California State University 562 985-9492 P.O. Box 3842 FAX 562 985-9414 Seal Beach, Ca 90740-7842 http://uias.calstate.edu From petworth at suba.com Fri Nov 7 13:21:27 1997 From: petworth at suba.com (Bill Thayer) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Along similar lines, has anyone been able to view all of the results from > a search (over 500 hits)? I occasionally go past 500 hits on some common term, out of curiosity; in Hotbot and Altavista, this works. OTOH the usual best tactic is to narrow your search - > Is this common with all search engines? Dunno, but Excite is extremely quirky; not the best engine to be using! > Any ideas? If for some reason you want to extend a search past the apparent limit, try locating the number of the starting term in the long string forming the URL; and incrementing it manually. This works with Altavista and Hotbot and several others (possibly including Excite; engines I use less frequently, at any rate, so I don't remember which). With Altavista, although you can't search for something like "Roman" (too many), you *can* enter it in the "WITH" space and get useful results. Bill Thayer RomanSites http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/RomanSites* From scramer at davenport.edu Fri Nov 7 13:21:55 1997 From: scramer at davenport.edu (Steve Cramer) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply Message-ID: >>> Martin Courtois November 7, 1997 10:00 am >>> "It seems likely that if search engine producers provided more documentation on their retrieval schemes, it would only be misused by spammers. Or, maybe new anti-spamming techniques would be found." ------------------------------------------------- That may be part of the answer. However, I think the main reason search engines don't provide much documentation on their bots and ranking software is that bots and ranking software are the basis of their business. In such a highly competitive market (and search engines are where most of the advertising revenue goes, too), AltaVista, HotBot, and the others are not going to give away their Reasons for Being, anymore than Glaxo is going to publish the specifications and molecular models of their best-selling drugs. The lack of documentation, however, gives us librarians an opportunity to show off our skills. So here's a vote for more obfuscation and secrecy from the search engines! (haha) Steve Cramer Davenport College Holland, Michigan USA scramer@davenport.edu From khartman at mwcgw.mwc.edu Fri Nov 7 13:53:21 1997 From: khartman at mwcgw.mwc.edu (karen hartman) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: default printing in Adobe Acrobat Message-ID: Our library recently decided to allow users to print from our public workstations with Internet access. Among the more popular sources our students like to print from are college course descriptions available in PDF format through a subscription to CollegeSource Online. Usually the students are interested in printing individual course descriptions to determine if they are able to transfer credit from another institution to ours. We would like to know if anyone is aware of a way to change the DEFAULT print range setting in Adobe Acrobat Reader from the entire document to the current page only. Our public workstations use Netscape 4.03 and Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.01. Additionally, we are attempting to do this as inexpensively as possible. We would prefer not to purchase a product like Fortress or Ikiosk. Thank you very much for your thought in this matter. Karen Hartman Mary Washington College From kfattig at polar.bowdoin.edu Fri Nov 7 14:10:01 1997 From: kfattig at polar.bowdoin.edu (Karl Fattig) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971107141001.007dcc20@polar.bowdoin.edu> At 08:51 AM 11/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >I was wondering what others experiences have been like with "globally" (i.e. >across many files all at once) replacing text in HTML documents. ... > >Any other horror stories? > >Jim Rible Jim, No horror stories, but I have used Hot Dog Pro's "Multi File Find and Replace" option with a great deal of success. Hot Dog Pro doesn't seem to add any control coding of its own, and the nice thing is that it works across multiple files and across directories. And the files don't have to be open. I still find Hot Dog Pro to be too slow on startup and opening files to use regularly, but I do like that Multi-File find and replace tool. Mostly we use Arachnophilia to edit our pages. Karl Fattig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karl Fattig, Catalog Librarian / Webmaster | Bowdoin College Library kfattig@polar.bowdoin.edu | 3000 College Station http://www.bowdoin.edu/~kfattig/ | Brunswick, ME 04011-8421 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- __ Cheap __ Fast __ Good [Pick two] | 207.725.3027 (v) From judy at hotwired.com Fri Nov 7 14:09:17 1997 From: judy at hotwired.com (j. y. c h e n) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Along similar lines, has anyone been able to view all of the results from a >search (over 500 hits)? I did a search for medical residency sites which >yielded over 10,000 hits. Over a period of several days, I viewed these >results, 10 or 20 at a time (I think it was Excite), bookmarking the last >page I visited at the end of the day. When I got to the 500th result and hit >the 'next' button, the same 490-500 were displayed. I could go no >further. I tried the search a couple of times, but still could go no further >than 500. > >Is this common with all search engines? Is there a trick around it? I >know that viewing more than a few sites will not usually be necessary, >but my concerns go deeper than that. I would like to do some research >on web sites, and would like to be able to pull up thousands of sites, not >just the first 500. I know that research has been done, but I don't know >how they succeeded if the search engine stops at 500. > >Any ideas? HotBot displays the first 1100 hits of your search results (which is only 11 pages to click through since you have the option to display 100 hits per page). I would suggest that you revise your search to pull up a more manageable number of hits, since the relevancy decreases the further down the list you go. personally, in terms of search strategy, I find that brute numbers do not necessarily mean better hits. as you've stated, there is usually no need to view more than the first page of results, and sometimes that handful of top sites will also be a goldmine of references and links to other sites, one of the great advantages of the non-linearity of hypertext. information seeking behavior is always informed by such serendipitous finds. ___________________________________ j. y. chen | hotbot tutor | WIRED d i g i t a l (v) 415. 276 .8464 | (f) 415. 276. 8499 http://www.hotbot.com The beatings will continue until morale improves! From stephanie at friendcalib.org Fri Nov 7 14:13:37 1997 From: stephanie at friendcalib.org (Stephanie Stokes) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Library Hot Links With Dressing & Pumpkin Pie Message-ID: <199711071913.LAA01517@proxy4.ba.best.com> Library Hot Links With Dressing & Pumpkin Pie The Greater Bay Area Library Council invites you to step up to the table and talk turkey at The Online Thanksgiving Resources - At The Library Page at http://www.gbalc.org/thanksgiving.htm. This page has links for library patrons hungry for a holiday feast from the likes of 'butterball.com' (the turkey folks) and 'Epicurious Magazine' (the good food folks) with holiday recipes and party tips. Bon Appetite and pass the cranberry sauce. # # # Stephanie Stokes http://www.sign.com/librarypr 415-749-0130 - fax 415-749-0735 stephanie@ssdesign.com From AGAROU at LIB1.Lan.McGill.CA Fri Nov 7 14:21:38 1997 From: AGAROU at LIB1.Lan.McGill.CA (Anna Garoufalis) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Call for Papers: QLA Conference Message-ID: <199711071930.OAA15828@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Hello, This message was given to me to post to several discussion groups. Please excuse any duplication. > ABQLA ANNUAL CONFERENCE MONTREAL QUEBEC. MAY 7,8,9 1998. > > ARE YOU A DYNAMIC AND WITTY SPEAKER? CAN YOU ENTHRALL > YOUR AUDIENCE AND LEAVE THEM WISHING FOR MORE? aRE ANY > OF THE FOLLOWING, SUGGESTED TOPICS IN YOUR FIELD? > > - BUDGET CUTS? MAKING YOU AND YOUR JLIBRARY INDISPENSABLE. > > - BREAKING INTO THE MARKET : CAREER DO'S AND DON'TS > > - THE CHANGING FACE OF THE LIBRARY AND SURVIVAL TECHNIQUES > > - WHAT MAKES A GREAT LIBRARY GREAT? > > - CREATIVITY MANAGEMENT FOR THE MILLENIUM > > - COMPUTERIZATION AND THE MILLENIUM "BUG" - STRATEGIES > > - LIBRARIES AND THE CHAOS THEORY > > IF THE ANSWER IS YES AND YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING > IN THE CONFERENCE WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. FOR MORE > INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT:- > > JENNIFER REEVES > CONFERENCE CHAIRMAN > QUEBEC LIBRARY ASSOCIATION > > TEL. (514) 684-1498 > > FAX. (514) 684-9184 > Since no email addresss is provided for Jennifer Reeves, interested parties may send a message to the QLA President at anneh@baldwin.qc.ca Thank you. From muraskit at UWSTOUT.EDU Fri Nov 7 14:26:17 1997 From: muraskit at UWSTOUT.EDU (Terri Muraski) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Public access printing Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971107132617.006ed374@uwstout.edu> Has anyone had any experience setting up public access networking of printers using Windows NT in conjunction with ATT/Harco card readers. We would like to network our PC's to print to a group of "print stations" and our campus is already using the ATT units as their charging mechanism. Thanks, Terri Muraski Serials Librarian University of Wisconsin-Stout Menomonie, WI 54751 muraskit@uwstout.edu From wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca Fri Nov 7 14:41:06 1997 From: wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca (Wayne Daniels) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: "Classified" approach to KM? -Reply Message-ID: Well, I'll try not to rehash my presentation at the NEM Online cataloging workshop. What interests me is the power that classification schemes have to create useful collocations of subject matter at various levels of specificity. Yahoo carries out a general categorization of materials, which has proved to be, faute de mieux, a highly popular resource. What I tried to do with the "Expanding Universe" site was to carry out the idea with more precision in respect of one subject area: astronomy. By extending the classification number as appropriate, it becomes possible fully to characterize the specificity of the materials, at least as regards the subject area to which they belong. Compare these collocations to a search set. The pre-determined subject hierarchy gives the user a built-in pathway for pursuing the material he/she is after, moving in a coherent sequence from broader to narrower ideas. Once he/she arrives at the right "shelf" the payoff is the homogeneity of its contents. What won't it do? Well, it won't support a topic-driven search, unless the topic happens to coincide with the subject. Someone after material on, say, black holes, will find a page of links devoted to this at our site. But topics can be just about anything, of course, often ephemeral and crossing boundries at will. The "date rape" example neatly illustrates this. But suppose someone were to mount the portion of a classification scheme (e.g., Dewey or LC) that dealt with women's issues, and to draw together links much as we have done at our site, including some that addressed the question of date rape. Then the material might be found in the manner I describe. More work to begin with, perhaps, but with a high degree of relevance in the material found as a reward. Suppose, further, that a network of such developped sections of the classification scheme were to be created. It would then be entirely possible to support searches, at one site or another, that were based upon a classification of material. What's more, it should be possible to enrich the sort of thing I have in mind. Our site was a pilot, done on a shoestring with minimal resources. But I should like to include a search engine in future ones, able to search from pull-dowm menus of controlled terms. Well, but this has gone too long. Quite possibly it's not as interesting as you'd hoped. Nevertheless, I believe there is some promise here, a belief I hope to be able to put to the test. Best, Wayne Daniels Metro Toronto Reference Library wdaniels@gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca >>> Nick Arnett 11/7/97, 09:29am >>> At 08:22 AM 11/7/97 -0800, Wayne Daniels wrote: >That's why I am particularly interested (and have been >involved) in exploring the possibilities of a classified approach to >knowledge management. But that is another topic. I'm intrigued. What do you mean by this? Nick Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From dwhelan at mail.smu.edu Fri Nov 7 14:57:02 1997 From: dwhelan at mail.smu.edu (David Whelan) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace References: Message-ID: <3463728E.CD477186@mail.smu.edu> Hot Dog Pro (http://www.sausage.com) also does this quite well, tho' I often have to remember exactly how to specify the files/directories to which I want the replacements to occur. Can't blame software for my flakiness! David. __________________________________________________________________ David P. Whelan Underwood Law Library Electronic Services Librarian Southern Methodist University School of Law Dallas, Texas 75275-0354 E-mail: dwhelan@mail.smu.edu (V) 214.768.1820 Home Page: http://www.smu.edu/~dwhelan (F) 214.768.4330 __________________________________________________________________ From walterg at YorkU.CA Fri Nov 7 10:05:04 1997 From: walterg at YorkU.CA (Walter W. Giesbrecht) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199711072005.PAA10332@sungod.ccs.yorku.ca> On 7 Nov 97 at 11:32, Peter C. Gorman wrote: > Aw, why focus on the negative? Let's hear what *works*. I'd like to be able > to recommend something to my poor benighted Windows colleagues! I've had good luck with Search and Replace for 95 (freeware) from Ellipse Data Systems. You can get it direct from the vendor at or from ZDNet at It only works on files in the same directory, but it does the job reasonably well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Walter W. Giesbrecht walterg@yorku.ca York University Libraries (416) 736-5639 ext. 77551 North York, Ontario, Canada From Alan_Boyd at qmgate.cc.oberlin.edu Fri Nov 7 15:05:29 1997 From: Alan_Boyd at qmgate.cc.oberlin.edu (Alan Boyd) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: launching *.exe application Message-ID: We would like to try to standardize on a web interface for library public (Win 95) workstations, but several of our machines also need to run standalone CD-ROM applications (e.g. specialized Art and Science databases). Right now we just have the Windows desktop plastered with icons for each of the CD products as well as the Netscape icon. I'd be nice to actually be able to bypass the desktop icons on these specific workstations and launch numerous different Windows applications from URLs embedded in some HTML text. We could then do a better job of explaining what each product does and just say "insert the CD and click here to search the database". We don't know of any way for Netscape helper applications to differentiate launching "aaa.exe" or "bbb.exe". Has anybody found a way to work around this?  Alan Boyd Associate Director of Libraries Oberlin College Library Oberlin, OH 44074 (216) 775-8285 x229 (216) 775-8739 (fax) Alan.Boyd@oberlin.edu From c478923 at showme.missouri.edu Fri Nov 7 15:13:38 1997 From: c478923 at showme.missouri.edu (c478923@showme.missouri.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <3463533D.92197359@opac.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: To say that Web search engines are free may be true in the sense that you need not pay money to use them. But you or perhaps your employer do pay, time being money. Jim Borwick "Brevity is the soul of lingerie" -Dorothy Parker On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, Ernest Perez wrote: > Nicholas G. Tomaiuolo, MLS wrote: > > The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of > > powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products, I'm > > wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy with the web. > > "The Web made simple" book, and "Search Engine Secrets ofthe Pros" (PC World > > article) nothwithstanding -- these engines including AltaVista, Lycos, InfoSeek, > > et al, do not perform as they should on a consistent basis. Is this vexing > > anyone besides me? > > Although I understand the irritation arising from the inconsistencies of > the search engines, I think we're really beating the subject to death. > > I'd like to make some observations: > > ** Yes, there are inconsistencies in the indexing algorithms and > search syntax/vocabulary. Just like there are lots of different brands > of word processors or spreadsheets or automobiles. "That's the American > way," or more broadly just the way of humans who think they have a > better idea. Why not pick the one that appears to satisfy you best and > leave it at that? Free market choice, etc. > > ** Yes, these search engines are not as predictable and controlled as > the old commercial database products. They are also products of a new > information access paradigm. They use software-intensive methods, not > human-intensive judgment and expense. On the other hand, the search > engine index surrogate is based upon the full content of source docs, > and is NOT dependent upon a human's subjective judgment and a bizarre > controlled vocabulary. > > ** We can quibble about Search Engine X getting 22,000 hits vs. Search > Engine Y getting 14,000 hits. So what, do you plan on examining all of > them? These systems operate on presentation ranking algorithms, and they > attempt to present relevant items first. _I'm_ certainly not going to > look at item #4,763, and I presume you aren't going to either. > > ** Another part of the new paradigm is that the search engines are > supported by advertising and software sales, and they are free (gasp) to > end users. Not $nn per hour, or per hit, or $nnnn per year. Can anyone > say that about "Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products"? (Or even > newspapers, magazines, etc.) Given this shift in producer profit motive, > which sources might you say are going to be more used by you, me, and > the (wo)man on the street? I haven't got a spare $20 or $60 to use to > satisfy every information need! > > ** Some of the comments seem to question, "How can we stand to use > these shoddy products?" My own reason for using them is that they tend > to find me the information I want, quickly and easily and cheaply. I > agree, they ain't perfect. I use one or another, depending upon my whim, > or which link is closer at hand. I am most comfortable and expert with > Alta Vista. But, if I want to do an "exhaustive" scan, I use one of the > "agent" tools, which searches multiple search engines, and tries to give > you a synthesis of the resulting information retrieval sets. > > Finally, I attach below text taken from a recent message from John > Creech, passed along to me by a colleague who I believe found it on > another list. It's really more on the topic of the "new model" of > library information. But it also applies very much to this > "inconsistencies" discussion that's been raging of late. > > Cheers, > -ernest > > Ernest Perez, Ph.D.//Oregon State Library//perez@opac.osl.state.or.us > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn. > > > > > ... People don't want "all the > > information that exists in the library." Perennial patron behavior + free > > choice = I want 1 book, 2 journal articles, 1 magazine and I want to get > > the hell out of here. > > > > I came here recently from 2 years at Cal. State U., Monterey Bay, where we > > were charged by Chancellor to stand this old educational paradigm on its > > head. We were ordered to deliver information electronically whenever > > possible, and only to supplement with paper. The intention from the > > get-go was for students to retrieve full text from anywhere, to search > > full text databases, to search cite and abs. databases, copy and paste the > > citation into an electronic doc. delivery form, and send via Web page to > > library ILL. Patron might have to come into lib. only to pick up > > photocopies and books to check out. > > > > While we have much larger print collections here, we're moving (albeit > > more slowly) in similar directions. It is not my job to make miniature > > librarians out of students who come in. If they want to learn more about > > conducting comprehensive research, I'm here, willing...yea even eager, > > to help. That's a key part of my job. > > > > But I do not believe for a minute that I'm not doing my job if I don't > > show them everything that's in the library - bibliographies, NUC, Lib. of > > Am. Civilization, etc. > > > > John Creech > > Electronic Resources Librarian & Asst. Head of Reference | Central > Washington > > University Library | 400 E. 8th Ave. | Ellensburg, WA 98926 | 509-963-1081 | > > jcreech@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu | > From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Nov 7 15:49:08 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <3463533D.92197359@opac.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971107154908.0076e9f8@panix.com> Very interesting thread. As for the concept of controlled vocabulary, in its defense, a vocabulary that could teach itself would be extremely useful. Imho, the problem with controlled vocabularies--what makes them idiosyncratic--is that they are not associated with an intelligent mechanism that can reason, as the human brain does, "water closet = toilet" or "smile is near grin," then pocket that information for further use. I realize there are some tools that associate patterns and groups of words, but I don't know of a tool that can make software independently build its vocabulary without assistance from a human. Or perhaps there is, and I'm just behind the ball curve... ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From riddle at is.rice.edu Fri Nov 7 16:00:56 1997 From: riddle at is.rice.edu (Prentiss Riddle) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting Message-ID: <199711072100.PAA21939@is.rice.edu> I'm sure this is a frequently asked question, but I haven't found a FAQ that encapsulates a satisfactory answer. (Pardon the crossposting to UWEBDB and Web4Lib.) I'm investigating online chat with the possibility of supporting it here at Rice. The history is that we have never supported chat before because of a lack of faculty interest, because the models we'd seen were all recreational in nature, and because known chat implementations (IRC, MUDs) were resource-intensive and/or insecure. Now we have some faculty interest and it's time to revisit the issue. So my question comes in two parts: (1) Do you know of examples of chat being used for serious instructional, scholarly or administrative work in a university setting? Where, and how? (2) Do you have recommendations of specific chat software? As a partial answer to (2), I'll mention a few resources I've found: PCMag article on chat software http://www8.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/chatserver/_open.htm Yahoo lists of chat software and web chat software http://www.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Companies/Computers/Software/Internet/Chat/ http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Chat/Software/ I've started a cursory review of ichat Rooms (www.ichat.com) and Volano Chat (www.volano.com). ichat is more powerful but more complicated and much more expensive; Volano is a very simple chat implementation in Java but may not do everything one wants for a particular application. Feel free to reply to the lists if your answer would be of general interest. Thanks. -- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") riddle@rice.edu -- Webmaster, Rice University / http://is.rice.edu/~riddle -- Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. From kfurlong at maine.maine.edu Fri Nov 7 16:10:43 1997 From: kfurlong at maine.maine.edu (Katherine Furlong) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: phrase needed Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971107211043.00673408@maine.maine.edu> Another good web page on Boolean concepts (complete with Venn Diagrams, ohh, ahh) is Laurie Cohen's for the University at Albany's libraries: http://www.albany.edu/library/internet/boolean.html It's long, but I like it because it includes not only how Boolean searching is *supposed* to work, but how it *actually* works in some of the major WWW Search Engines... >These are normally called "compound" search statements, I believe. > >A good Web page covering the concepts is: > > http://www.lib.ua.edu/boolean.htm > >Bill Feidt >NAL >wfeidt@nal.usda.gov > >At 06:11 AM 11/7/97 -0800, Donald Barclay wrote: >>I've heard such searches called "nested searches," but this may not be the >>universally accepted term. Could there be a term from algebra that >>describes such searches? > > <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> Katherine Furlong <> Mantor Library, 41 High St. User Education and <> Farmington, ME 04938 Electronic Resources Librarian <> kfurlong@maine.maine.edu University of Maine - Farmington <> 207-778-7224 <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> From mark.ellis at rpl.richmond.bc.ca Fri Nov 7 16:30:46 1997 From: mark.ellis at rpl.richmond.bc.ca (Mark Ellis) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace Message-ID: Peter Gorman said: >Aw, why focus on the negative? Let's hear what *works*. I'd like to be able >to recommend something to my poor benighted Windows colleagues! > There's Windows program called, oddly enough, "Search and Replace" which can be found at www.shareware.com. You can also use Perl, which might be more flexible in some circumstances. (see below) And remember: (choose best answer for this context) [ ] Make a backup. [ ] Use a condom. [ ] Say "please". # replace.pl # 02-04-96 Mark Ellis # Searches and replaces text in .html files in a specified directory and all sub-directories. # Set the substitution using following two variables. # If no directory arguement is given, the program will start in the current directory. ######################################################################### $to_replace = "\xd0"; # evil dash $replace_with = "-"; # regular dash ######################################################################### $dir = $ARGV[0]; if ($dir eq "") { $dir = "."; } &DoDir($dir); sub DoDir { chdir(@_[0]) || die "Can't change to @_[0] directory\n"; opendir(DIR, ".") || die "Can't open @_[0]\n"; local(@filenames) = grep(!/^\.\.?$/, readdir(DIR)); # grep to avoid "." and ".." closedir(DIR); foreach $filename (@filenames) { if ($filename =~ /\.html$/) { # print "HTML file: ", "$filename\n"; #debug &Replace($filename); } if (-d $filename) { # print "Directory: ", "$filename\n"; #debug &DoDir($filename); } } chdir(".."); } sub Replace { $input_file = @_[0]; $output_file = "changed.tmp"; open( INPUTFILE, $input_file) || die "Can't open $input_file $!\n"; open( OUTPUTFILE, ">>$output_file") || die "Can't open $output_file $!\n"; while ( ) { s/$to_replace/$replace_with/g; # Perform global substitution. print OUTPUTFILE; } close(OUTPUTFILE); close(INPUTFILE); # Delete input file and replace it with the output file # unlink $input_file || die "Can't delete input file: $input_file\n"; rename( $output_file, $input_file ) || die "Can't rename $output_file to $input_file\n"; } ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ellis Network Support Analyst Phone: (604) 231-6410 Richmond Public Library Email: mark.ellis@rpl.richmond.bc.ca Richmond, British Columbia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhterry at RBSE.Mountain.Net Fri Nov 7 17:04:38 1997 From: rhterry at RBSE.Mountain.Net (rhterry@RBSE.Mountain.Net) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Had to get into this, what is needed for WWW technology would be the best Topical and Typing of resources by qualified domain experts (as documentating and created by qualified librarians). It should include all easily (standard) browsing and searcing functionalities. That and platform/software independencies is mandatory. We have and are working towards such a tool. Hope to offer an affordable answer soon. Bob Terry MOREplus Product Manager 304-594-9075 x18 From narnett at verity.com Fri Nov 7 14:22:26 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971107192226.00ba0568@verity.com> At 01:45 PM 11/7/97 -0800, Prentiss Riddle wrote: >I'm investigating online chat with the possibility of supporting it >here at Rice. The history is that we have never supported chat before >because of a lack of faculty interest, because the models we'd seen >were all recreational in nature, and because known chat implementations >(IRC, MUDs) were resource-intensive and/or insecure. Now we have some >faculty interest and it's time to revisit the issue. I've been looking at chat lately, trying to figure out if there's a general need for chat that is associated with on-line resources. We think there might be a call for threaded commentary on the resources that we index and organize. I'd be curious if you or others see a need for this. On-line services have often had at least a loose correspondence between discussion and file libraries, which led us in this direction. Nick Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From Bigwood at lpi.jsc.nasa.gov Fri Nov 7 18:10:42 1997 From: Bigwood at lpi.jsc.nasa.gov (Bigwood, David) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the Scorpion project at OCLC, so I'll jump in. It automatically assigns subjects using the Dewey Classification to free text. It looks very promising. I heard Keith speak on it yesterday and his excitement is contagious. It turns out Dewey concepts are very intelligent having been refined and worked on for many years by people trained in information searching and retrieval. So the vocabulary does not need to be built. LCSH and LC class schemes are some other possibilities. Check it out at: http://purl.oclc.org/scorpion Sincerely, David Bigwood bigwood@lpi.jsc.nasa.gov Lunar & Planetary Institute >---------- >From: Karen G. Schneider[SMTP:kgs@bluehighways.com] >Sent: Friday, November 07, 1997 3:33 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: inconsistencies web search performance > >Very interesting thread. As for the concept of controlled vocabulary, in >its defense, a vocabulary that could teach itself would be extremely >useful. Imho, the problem with controlled vocabularies--what makes them >idiosyncratic--is that they are not associated with an intelligent >mechanism that can reason, as the human brain does, "water closet = toilet" >or "smile is near grin," then pocket that information for further use. I >realize there are some tools that associate patterns and groups of words, >but I don't know of a tool that can make software independently build its >vocabulary without assistance from a human. Or perhaps there is, and I'm >just behind the ball curve... > > >______________________________________________ >Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com >Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI >Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association >The Internet Filter Assessment Project: > http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ >Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters >(Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) >Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- > From dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu Fri Nov 7 18:20:49 1997 From: dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu (Sheryl Dwinell) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971107172049.007a0100@vms.csd.mu.edu> >Aw, why focus on the negative? Let's hear what *works*. I'd like to be able >to recommend something to my poor benighted Windows colleagues! Ha ha, very funny. :) Well, Homesite is a wonderful HTML editor (text, not WYSIWIG) that allows global find & replace in web pages. I love it! You have the option of making backups of the files that you change in case you screw up. You can also limit to specified directories & subdirectories. It works very quickly, and I've never had a problem with 'extraneous' markup getting inserted. I think this is because it's a text editor, rather than a WYSIWIG editor. I've also used FrontPage to do global changes to text on pages and to fix links. But, Homesite allows you change bits and pieces of HTML markup, which FrontPage doesn't. Sheryl Dwinell * Cataloger/DBM Librarian/Webmaster Memorial Library * Marquette University P.O. Box 3141 * Milwaukee, WI 53201-3141 414-288-3406 * dwinells@vms.csd.mu.edu From judy at hotwired.com Fri Nov 7 18:34:54 1997 From: judy at hotwired.com (j. y. c h e n) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <3463533D.92197359@opac.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: well said, ernest! I agree with nicholas that there is a vast gulf between information and its seekers, exacerbated by inconsistent search tools and inexperienced users. what we should keep in mind, though, is that there are 2 different issues involved: the cognitive information seeking behavior of users on the one hand, and the development of databases/indexes on the other. speaking from a search engine's perspective, what HotBot is trying to develop is search tool that is powerful as well as easy to use. it is true that we are embarking on a new paradigm; we recognize that we are not and cannot be a virtual library or even a commercial database. the medium is too dynamic and the technology does not allow it at this point. compounded is the fact that there is no bibliographic control on the web - any type of standardization must be implemented top down by the governing bodies of the web. we are only the middle man in this venture. the best we can do is to catalog what we are given. until that time, we can try to devise new and inventive ways to search, to sharpen a rather blunt tool, so to speak, such as searching by page type. we do employ a librarian (myself), solicit feedback from librarians in our tutorial program, and user test our interface extensively. we are also in contact with the Task Force for Standardizing Search Commands, so we are making an effort at control and consistency. in the end, it is ultimately up to the user to decide what is useful or relevant to him/her and whether a search engine is the appropriate tool. >I'd like to make some observations: > > ** Yes, there are inconsistencies in the indexing algorithms and >search syntax/vocabulary. Just like there are lots of different brands >of word processors or spreadsheets or automobiles. "That's the American >way," or more broadly just the way of humans who think they have a >better idea. Why not pick the one that appears to satisfy you best and >leave it at that? Free market choice, etc. > > ** Yes, these search engines are not as predictable and controlled as >the old commercial database products. They are also products of a new >information access paradigm. They use software-intensive methods, not >human-intensive judgment and expense. On the other hand, the search >engine index surrogate is based upon the full content of source docs, >and is NOT dependent upon a human's subjective judgment and a bizarre >controlled vocabulary. > > ** We can quibble about Search Engine X getting 22,000 hits vs. Search >Engine Y getting 14,000 hits. So what, do you plan on examining all of >them? These systems operate on presentation ranking algorithms, and they >attempt to present relevant items first. _I'm_ certainly not going to >look at item #4,763, and I presume you aren't going to either. > > ** Another part of the new paradigm is that the search engines are >supported by advertising and software sales, and they are free (gasp) to >end users. Not $nn per hour, or per hit, or $nnnn per year. Can anyone >say that about "Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products"? (Or even >newspapers, magazines, etc.) Given this shift in producer profit motive, >which sources might you say are going to be more used by you, me, and >the (wo)man on the street? I haven't got a spare $20 or $60 to use to >satisfy every information need! > > ** Some of the comments seem to question, "How can we stand to use >these shoddy products?" My own reason for using them is that they tend >to find me the information I want, quickly and easily and cheaply. I >agree, they ain't perfect. I use one or another, depending upon my whim, >or which link is closer at hand. I am most comfortable and expert with >Alta Vista. But, if I want to do an "exhaustive" scan, I use one of the >"agent" tools, which searches multiple search engines, and tries to give >you a synthesis of the resulting information retrieval sets. > >Finally, I attach below text taken from a recent message from John >Creech, passed along to me by a colleague who I believe found it on >another list. It's really more on the topic of the "new model" of >library information. But it also applies very much to this >"inconsistencies" discussion that's been raging of late. > >Cheers, >-ernest > >Ernest Perez, Ph.D.//Oregon State Library//perez@opac.osl.state.or.us >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn. > > > >> ... People don't want "all the >> information that exists in the library." Perennial patron behavior + free >> choice = I want 1 book, 2 journal articles, 1 magazine and I want to get >> the hell out of here. >> >> I came here recently from 2 years at Cal. State U., Monterey Bay, where we >> were charged by Chancellor to stand this old educational paradigm on its >> head. We were ordered to deliver information electronically whenever >> possible, and only to supplement with paper. The intention from the >> get-go was for students to retrieve full text from anywhere, to search >> full text databases, to search cite and abs. databases, copy and paste the >> citation into an electronic doc. delivery form, and send via Web page to >> library ILL. Patron might have to come into lib. only to pick up >> photocopies and books to check out. >> >> While we have much larger print collections here, we're moving (albeit >> more slowly) in similar directions. It is not my job to make miniature >> librarians out of students who come in. If they want to learn more about >> conducting comprehensive research, I'm here, willing...yea even eager, >> to help. That's a key part of my job. >> >> But I do not believe for a minute that I'm not doing my job if I don't >> show them everything that's in the library - bibliographies, NUC, Lib. of >> Am. Civilization, etc. >> >> John Creech >> Electronic Resources Librarian & Asst. Head of Reference | Central >Washington >> University Library | 400 E. 8th Ave. | Ellensburg, WA 98926 | 509-963-1081 | >> jcreech@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu | ___________________________________ j. y. chen | hotbot tutor | WIRED d i g i t a l (v) 415. 276 .8464 | (f) 415. 276. 8499 http://www.hotbot.com The beatings will continue until morale improves! From ras at nimbus.anzio.com Fri Nov 7 18:37:11 1997 From: ras at nimbus.anzio.com (Robert Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: launching *.exe application In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Although I don't have personal experience with it, I know that some libraries are making good use of a program called "w3launch" to launch a variety of Windows and DOS programs from a web page. I believe it uses a "rules file" so you can differentiate programs to be run. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From bennettt at am.appstate.edu Fri Nov 7 20:27:28 1997 From: bennettt at am.appstate.edu (Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: launching *.exe application References: Message-ID: <3463BFFE.153D5F35@am.appstate.edu> We are using a Merridian 28CD CDROM Tower. They have a new software product, CD Intranet, which is advertised to "access any kind of CD or DVD title from within Web browsers on intrantnets, including traditional Windows and DOS CDs, or media containing graphics or HTML files." I think there is a demo copy available from their web site at www.meridian.com. Only one time was I able to launch a batchfile from a WEB link. I associated .bat with command.com as the helper program. The only problem was I gave the executable a wrong name in the batch file and netscape would no longer go to dos from a link to a batch file after that. Thomas Bennett Alan Boyd wrote: > We would like to try to standardize on a web interface for library > public (Win > 95) workstations, but several of our machines also need to run > standalone > CD-ROM applications (e.g. specialized Art and Science databases). > Right now > we just have the Windows desktop plastered with icons for each of the > CD > products as well as the Netscape icon. I'd be nice to actually be > able to > bypass the desktop icons on these specific workstations and launch > numerous > different Windows applications from URLs embedded in some HTML text. > We > could then do a better job of explaining what each product does and > just say > "insert the CD and click here to search the database". We don't know > of any > way for Netscape helper applications to differentiate launching > "aaa.exe" or > "bbb.exe". Has anybody found a way to work around this? > >  > Alan Boyd > Associate Director of Libraries > Oberlin College Library > Oberlin, OH 44074 > (216) 775-8285 x229 > (216) 775-8739 (fax) > Alan.Boyd@oberlin.edu -- ;/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ ;/* */ ;/* Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University */ ;/* bennettt@am.appstate.edu Belk Library */ ;/* bennetttm@appstate.edu Systems And Automation Team */ ;/* bennett@wncln200.lib.unca.edu Computer Consultant II */ ;/* Office: 704 262 2795 Cellular: 704 266 3743 */ ;/* http://Whitewolf.library.appstate.edu */ ;/* */ ;/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ If it works, don't fix it! From day at indiana.edu Fri Nov 7 22:00:57 1997 From: day at indiana.edu (Dorothy Day) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:04 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <971107092610.20240159@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, N. TOMAIUOLO, INSTRUCTION LIBRARIAN, CCSU wrote: > > The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of > powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CDROM products, > I'm wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy > with the web. > "The Web made simple" book, and "Search Engine Secrets ofthe Pros" (PC World > article) nothwithstanding -- these engines including AltaVista, Lycos, > InfoSeek, et al, do not perform as they should on a consistent basis. > Is this vexing anyone besides me? > Most of the postings along this line seem to be comparing controlled-vocabulary searching on commercial databases with the full-text searching common to most web search engines, a rather dubious approach. It would make more sense to compare a free-text search of full-text items in a (say) Dialog database with a similar search on the web. Many of the same problems arise--and many of the same attempts are made at solving them: relevance ranking schemes, use of WITHIN and NEAR operators, ways to indicate phrase terms, etc. Nowhere has full-text searching allowed the same control as one can get searching controlled vocabulary in specified fields, but searchers still use the former to extend the richness of the search beyond the limited range of indexed terms. Yes it would be nice to have more controlled vocabulary tools available for web-indexed resources, but someone will have to pay to have that done, and it won't come cheap. With the volume of material added daily, I wonder what kind of automated indexing could keep up and generate the kind of indexing we get in much smaller databases of more even quality and limited range of coverage. Nothing available to date, I don't think. ***** Dorothy Day School of Library and Information Science Indiana University day@indiana.edu ***** "He also surfs who only sits and waits." From ttripp at inforamp.net Sun Nov 9 12:05:18 1997 From: ttripp at inforamp.net (Tim Tripp) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:05 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace References: <3.0.2.32.19971107172049.007a0100@vms.csd.mu.edu> Message-ID: <3465ED49.7A29@inforamp.net> Sheryl Dwinell wrote: > > >Aw, why focus on the negative? Let's hear what *works*. I'd like to be able > >to recommend something to my poor benighted Windows colleagues! > > Ha ha, very funny. :) Well, Homesite is a wonderful HTML editor (text, not > WYSIWIG) that allows global find & replace in web pages. I love it! You > have the option of making backups of the files that you change in case you > screw up. You can also limit to specified directories & subdirectories. It > works very quickly, and I've never had a problem with 'extraneous' markup > getting inserted. I think this is because it's a text editor, rather than a > WYSIWIG editor. I've also used FrontPage to do global changes to text on > pages and to fix links. But, Homesite allows you change bits and pieces of > HTML markup, which FrontPage doesn't. I have to second Sheryl's recommendation of Homesite. I'd only heard about it after reading the documentation from O'Reilly & Associates on their WebBoard web based conferencing software , which I had set up on our intranet recently. WebBoard uses a number of unique "WebBoard Tags" in it's html pages, and they recommended Homesite as it doesn't change these non-standard tags. In fact, it doesn't seem to add any extraneous coding either. I downloaded the limited demo version to do some modification on the WebBoard pages, and I loved it so much that I forked out the $90.00 this week to register it. It's the best text based editor I've come across (for either Windows or Macintosh). You can check it out at . As for WYSIWIG editors, I'm still a big fan of Adobe Pagemill . I started using the Mac version when it came out, and was thrilled when they released the Windows version this year. As far as WYSIWIG editors go, it has the lowest extraneous tag insertion quotient that I've seen, and I love it for page design. Tim -- Tim Tripp, Library Supervisor Spar Space Systems (Brampton) Spar Aerospace Ltd. 9445 Airport Road Brampton, Ontario, Canada L6S 4J3 http://www.spar.ca/ Tel:(905) 790-2800 ext. 4108 Fax:(905) 790-4423 Work: ttripp@spar.ca Home: ttripp@inforamp.net From R.Missingham at dwe.csiro.au Sun Nov 9 21:22:13 1997 From: R.Missingham at dwe.csiro.au (Roxanne Missingham) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:05 2005 Subject: Web search engines/indexes Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971110203429.096fa10e@artemis> Thanks for the interesting comments on web search engines - when giving any training session I also suggest "think before you press" for the most successful result. I think it's useful to remember that the contents of any web search tool is not the same as a database on Dialog or a traditional indexing/abstracting service - which does make it hard to figure out which search tool is best for any individual search - every time I compare with a search across engines (yes including Hotbot) the results vary hugely by search tool - very rarely is there much more than a 30% duplication rate between search tools. The other thing to remember when searching is that every string can be indexed - this can cause some confusion in interpreting results - for example a search of Alta Vista last year for "koala" revealed the most relevant item as the AMP home page (AMP is an insurance company). The page included the string "koala.gif" and there were very few few words in the page. It ranked highly as: * koala.gif occured near the top of the page * koala was one of a small number of strings! Controlled vocabulary would be wonderful but is a major task for us itnernationally - think of the cultural differences in the use of words and our interpretation of meaning - from wharf labourer, stevedore and longshoreman to points 9car, traffic, horse....) regards Roxanne ====================================================== Roxanne Missingham phone: (02) 6242 1659 Librarian fax: (02) 6241 3491 CSIRO Wildlife and Ecology email: r.missingham@dwe.csiro.au LIB "Librarians In Black" ====================================================== From absher at lclark.edu Sun Nov 9 23:55:00 1997 From: absher at lclark.edu (Linda Absher) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:05 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My two cents: I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were retrieved. Scary.... LInda -- Linda Ueki Absher absher@lclark.edu Reference Librarian (503) 768-7287 FAX: (503) 768-7282 Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 -- "You deserve a longer letter than this; but it is my unhappy fate seldom to treat people so well as they deserve." --Jane Austen From memort at netcom.com Mon Nov 10 01:09:54 1997 From: memort at netcom.com (Mary-Ellen Mort) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:05 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > retrieved. I wasn't going to bring this up. But Linda's experience gives me courage. Last week I taught a class and a student and I entered EXACTLY the same altavista search and got different results (I got something like 2,000 postings and she got something like 600) ...I checked carefully that the searches WERE identical--they were--and then I just had to shrug my shoulders and move on with the class. How often do we get a chance to do simultaneous duplicate searches? I have also had experiences with excite where, as I work through a long set of results, the number of matching sites changes wildly from page to page. As someone pointed out earlier, you get what you pay for. I guess we can ask for our money back. Mary-Ellen Mort JobSmart Project Director http://jobsmart.org From harter at indiana.edu Mon Nov 10 07:42:32 1997 From: harter at indiana.edu (Steve Harter) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > > retrieved. > > > I wasn't going to bring this up. But Linda's experience gives me courage. > Last week I taught a class and a student and I entered EXACTLY the same > altavista search and got different results (I got something like 2,000 > postings and she got something like 600) ...I checked carefully that the > searches WERE identical--they were--and then I just had to shrug my > shoulders and move on with the class. > I've done this too, many times, as part of a project designed to count the number of links to given URLs (a research project). Reliability of one's data is one of the most important considerations in research, and having several different results for identical searches conducted within minutes of one another gave me considerable pause. The project is currently in abeyance, but when it resumes I will probably use Hotbot, which did not exhibit this characteristic. Steve Stephen P. Harter, School of Library and Information Science Indiana University Voice: (812) 855-5113 Bloomington, IN 47405 Fax: (812) 855-6166 From dream at saturn.vcu.edu Mon Nov 10 08:57:04 1997 From: dream at saturn.vcu.edu (Dan Ream) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I too have had Linda's experience with repeated searches returning different results over a brief period of time. Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? Humorous replies welcome, as well as serious! --Dan Ream Head, Instruction & Outreach Services Virginia Commonwealth University Library Richmond, Virginia, USA On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > > My two cents: > > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > retrieved. > > Scary.... > > LInda From jrervin at uncg.edu Mon Nov 10 09:42:12 1997 From: jrervin at uncg.edu (Justin R Ervin) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: launching *.exe application In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 13:19:11 -0800 Alan Boyd wrote: [...] > It'd be nice to actually be able to bypass the desktop icons on these > specific workstations and launch numerous different Windows applications > from URLs embedded in some HTML text. [...] > We don't know of any way for Netscape helper applications to > differentiate launching "aaa.exe" or "bbb.exe". Has anybody found a > way to work around this? We had good luck with W3launch on our Win 3.1 computers running Netscape 3.x. However, our Win 95 computers running Netscape 4.x can launch .exe and .bat files quite seamlessly and without installing additional software. Just make sure that command.com is set up as your "helper app" for .exe and .bat files (Netscape 4.x should come that way.) and you're good to go! =================Justin R Ervin================== Computing Support Technician I Jackson Library Electronic Information Resources, UNCG jrervin@uncg.edu http://www.uncg.edu/~jrervin/ From lou at argus-inc.com Mon Nov 10 09:43:04 1997 From: lou at argus-inc.com (Louis Rosenfeld) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Dan Ream wrote: > > I too have had Linda's experience with repeated searches returning > different results over a brief period of time. > > Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your > students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? > > Humorous replies welcome, as well as serious! > > --Dan Ream > Head, Instruction & Outreach Services > Virginia Commonwealth University Library > Richmond, Virginia, USA The obvious reason is demo-itis. This sort of problem only happens in public situations, and is not reproducible in the privacy of one's own cubicle. Seriously, a (very wild) guess is that there are a number of servers that serve Alta Vista's database behind the scenes, and for various reasons these databases aren't fully synched. Perhaps you and your student were using different servers without realizing it. Not sure that this explanation is even technically possible, but it's worth a guess. Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Mon Nov 10 11:20:01 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: AltaVista and the worse search crime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Linda's comment below reveals a phenomenon I have long observed with A-V. The results can vary from zero to thousands with exactly the same search. When I teach searching of A-V I tell students to try at least three times every search in A-V and then use BACK to get to the highest result. I have e-mailed A-V for an explanation and got no reply. I have come up with the explanation that A-V must allow you a given time in their database and send you the results found -- whether partial or totally inaccurate. Their failure to document or admit this "feature" is the worst crime against search engines I've seen -- this long dialog on search engines has not mentioned anything quite so horrendous as to report no or partial results when the search is valid and documents exist. HAS ANYONE GOT A RATIONALE OR EXPLANATION ? Joe Barker The Teaching Library UC Berkeley On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > > My two cents: > > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > retrieved. > > Scary.... > > LInda > > -- > Linda Ueki Absher absher@lclark.edu > Reference Librarian (503) 768-7287 FAX: (503) 768-7282 > Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 > -- > "You deserve a longer letter than this; but it is my unhappy fate seldom > to treat people so well as they deserve." --Jane Austen > > From dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu Mon Nov 10 11:24:15 1997 From: dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu (Sheryl Dwinell) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971110102415.007a53a0@vms.csd.mu.edu> >Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your >students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? It's nice that someone has mentioned the patrons/students finally. I hate these sort of questions from users because I feel like I don't have a really good answer for them. I try to explain that it's a quirk of the engine and try to explain as best I can how the engines work. But, heck, I'm baffled sometimes by the results I get. In classes, it's particularly frustrating to have worked out some practice searches. Double checked them an hour before class time to make sure that what you tell the class will happen, does happen. Then get into the class and, surprise, several folks in different results with identical searches. If we as "experts" are frustrated with these products, imagine what patrons experience. In the classes we teach, lots of people come in with the expectation that we're going to give them the magic key that will unlock the secrets to searching the Web. They are either amused or chagrined to find out that even we are frustrated when searching the Web, that even with the most carefully constructed, well thought out search, we get bombarded with way too many results, or 15-20 of the top results and none satisfy your information needs. >From the feedback I've received, the most significant thing that class participants come away with is a better sense of how imperfect these tools are and that they are in no way like the library online catalog. Some people believe that the search engines function like the catalog and they can't figure out why they get so many irrelevant pages when they do a 'subject' search. Most people say they've never really looked at the instructions and have no clue about phrase searching, boolean sets, and other 'tricks'. Those are the ones who DO come to the class. It makes me wonder how many of our students are using the Web for research and are missing really good resources because they don't know how to construct a good query. Someone wrote to the list saying that we should sorta stop our belly-achin' and find the one that works best for us and go with it. Actually, I think what we're doing is not only sharing our frustration, but sharing information that can be useful to others on the list. I know that I've come away with some good stuff. If we don't complain or we don't care about how the engines perform, isn't it kind of giving in to what's available and yet again being force fed products to use in our library that we have little control over? I think it's great that Hotbot has a librarian on staff. Same with Yahoo. Maybe if we channel our frustration in a positive way, we might have a hand in designing better information retrieval products. There's so much good stuff on the Web, and it would be really great if we could help people find it consistently without having to beat their heads (our ours!) against a wall in the process! Sheryl Dwinell * Cataloger/DBM Librarian/Webmaster Memorial Library * Marquette University P.O. Box 3141 * Milwaukee, WI 53201-3141 414-288-3406 * dwinells@vms.csd.mu.edu From dan at 84.com Mon Nov 10 12:02:24 1997 From: dan at 84.com (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Tracking porn viewers Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971110100224.0069a0c4@dpop.micron.net> The following is a fascinating piece....a Michigan city councilman wants to make available all the names of those who view porn. There are obviously serious legal problems with this, in Michigan as well as in Idaho. Gee, maybe filtering isn't so bad after all. o-) dan Date: Mon, 03 Nov 97 05:36:19 EST From: steenburger@hotmail.com Subject: File 8--Warren Coucilman Wants Library Porn Surfers Names Made Public Computer Privacy Digest Mon, 03 Nov 97 Volume 11 : Issue: 017 Council Vice-President Chuck Busse offered an alternative to filtering: making the names of people who access porn via city libraries public. According to an article in the Detroit News: "under Busse's proposal, which was not acted on, pornography viewers' names could be published in newspapers, on the city Web site or made available to anyone who files a Freedom of Information request through the city attorney's office. The names would be gathered from city computer records and made available to the public. Only people who call up sex sites on library screens would be identified." I guess then the mob would know where to gather and whose house to burn down. A couple of (other) problems come to mind. One is that a login system would have to be set up so that files accessed could could be matched to the patron viewing them. Woe to the person who forgets to log off! Especially if the next person to use the terminal is one of the city's porn addicts or a neo-nazi. I hear the city has plenty of both. Of course all the sites accessed would show up in a log file, not just the porn sites (as if it would be easy to tell which were which), thus creating some of the biggest privacy violations in the history of the United States. Well, Warren city attorneys are used to being on the losing side of costly litigation. Was this a serious suggestion? Did he think a lot about this before hand or did he just blurt it out in haste so that Gloria Sankuer would not be the only one to get credit for saving our culture from decay? It looks as if Busse knows even less about the internet and libraries than Sankuer. That's probably why he wasn't one of the two council members appointed to work with the library board in search of an internet filter. That honor went to St. Pierre, and the council's internet expert Sankuer. http://members.aol.com/neofrant/index.html http://www.detnews.com/1997/macomb/9710/15/10150169.htm Dan Lester, 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA dan@84.com http://www.84.com/ http://www.lili.org/ http://library.idbsu.edu/ http://cyclops.idbsu.edu/ Albertsons Library at Boise State, the University for Idaho Sent me a postcard of a library yet? You'll get something nice in return. In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Erasmus, 1534 From lou at argus-inc.com Mon Nov 10 12:23:18 1997 From: lou at argus-inc.com (Louis Rosenfeld) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Job Posting: Information Architect/Classification and Indexing Specialist Message-ID: (apologies for cross-posting) Position Title Information Architect/Classification and Indexing Specialist Company Argus Associates, Inc. Location Ann Arbor, Michigan Company Profile Argus specializes in information architecture design for large, complex intranets and Web sites. We create organization, labeling, navigation, indexing, and classification systems that help users find the information they need. Since 1993, we have provided strategy consulting and information architecture services to some of the world's largest corporations, including AT&T, Borders Books & Music, Chrysler Corporation, and Encyclopaedia Britannica. In addition, Argus developed and manages the Argus Clearinghouse, the Internet's premier research library. Each of our consultants holds an advanced degree in information science and librarianship. As advocates for the importance of information architecture, we write and speak extensively on the topic. Position Description We are seeking a creative, team-oriented, entrepreneurial individual with a background in information and library science. To succeed in this position, this individual must understand the principles of information organization, indexing, classification, information management, and user interface design. Experience as a team member on Internet-based information system development projects is desired. Responsibilities may include: researching, creating, applying, and maintaining controlled vocabularies; repackaging content from traditional media for online use; and creating information architectures for Web sites, intranets, and other information systems. Since Argus is an entrepreneurial company, opportunities exist to be involved in a diverse array of projects which may include the development of innovative information services such as the Argus Clearinghouse, speaking at professional conferences, and writing articles and books. Argus offers a competitive salary, vacation, results-based bonus, medical benefits, training, and excellent career development potential. Requirements * Masters in Information and Library Studies. * Indexing experience. * Experience with classification systems. * Experience designing and developing Web sites. * Experience in cataloging and content modeling (desired by not required). How Do I Apply? As applications will be reviewed immediately upon receipt, quick turn-around improves chances of hiring. Final deadline is November 21, 1997. Please send the following materials by postal mail or fax as soon as possible to Louis Rosenfeld (no email submissions or phone calls please): * a resume; * a brief description of your relevant experience; * URLs for Web sites you have helped to develop; * a brief writing sample (article or college essay); * a note indicating where you heard about this opportunity; and * contact information including phone number and email address. Louis Rosenfeld Argus Associates, Inc. 109 Catherine Street Ann Arbor, MI 48104 Fax: 313.213.8082 For more information about Argus, please review our Web site at http://argus-inc.com/ From ras at nimbus.anzio.com Mon Nov 10 12:41:51 1997 From: ras at nimbus.anzio.com (Robert Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971110102415.007a53a0@vms.csd.mu.edu> Message-ID: I'll suggest an experiment to test the hypothesis that different searches on AltaVista, for instance, end up running on different machines. Do three identical searches. When the results come back, note and record the search URL that shows in your browser's URL slot. If the search results are different, are the URLs different? Does typing in the same URL result in the same data? I just tried this from a single PC, with a search for the problematic "date rape". Three times, I got the count of 22258 hits. Maybe the problem occurs only when different PCs try it ... ? Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From DILEWIS at IGSRGLIB01.ER.USGS.GOV Mon Nov 10 12:18:25 1997 From: DILEWIS at IGSRGLIB01.ER.USGS.GOV (Diane Lewis) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <19852C5248B@igsrglib01.er.usgs.gov> Sheryl Dwinell wrote: "It's nice that someone has mentioned the patrons/students finally... It makes me wonder how many of our students are using the Web for research and are missing really good resources because they don't know how to construct a good query. Someone wrote to the list saying that we should sorta stop our belly-achin' and find the one that works best for us and go with it. Actually, I think what we're doing is not only sharing our frustration, but sharing information that can be useful to others on the list. I know that I've come away with some good stuff. If we don't complain or we don't care about how the engines perform, isn't it kind of giving in to what's available and yet again being force fed products to use in our library that we have little control over? I think it's great that Hotbot has a librarian on staff. Same with Yahoo. Maybe if we channel our frustration in a positive way, we might have a hand in designing better information retrieval products. There's so much good stuff on the Web, and it would be really great if we could help people find it consistently without having to beat their heads (our ours!) against a wall in the process!" Brava! Sheryl has delineated exactly WHY we as librarians need to evaluate search engines on an ongoing basis. No other group has the ability or the motivation (dare I add responsibility?) to do so. Diane M. Lewis U.S. Geological Survey Library From narnett at verity.com Mon Nov 10 10:39:03 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971110153903.0126006c@verity.com> At 02:09 AM 11/8/97 -0800, Leonard Will wrote: >Rather than relying on machines to group terms on the basis of chance >co-occurrences, we should be developing a good thesaurus (or its big >brother, a semantic net). Search software should then either use this >automatically to find other terms to include in a search or should allow >a user to interact with it at search time, by asking questions such as: >"There's not much in the database on 'water closets'; would you like me >to search for 'toilets' too, or should I include all sorts of bathroom >fittings?" The Cyc project has been working on the semantic network of all things, but that's a rather large task... ;-) Maintenance is a huge issue; the number of new terms entering the language is astonishing -- new product names, buzzwords, etc. Automatically constructed semantic nets, like thesauruses, err heavily on the side of finding too much. But I think your suggestion of responding with choices about scope and context are right on the mark. You mention scope, but not context. Contextual disambiguation is one of the really hard problems in retrieval. A word such as "bank" can have many meanings; I'm not aware of any software that disambiguates such terms effectively. However, if you can return results that are sorted into useful categories, the user can then disambiguate. Nick Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From autolib at marauder.millersv.edu Mon Nov 10 12:10:03 1997 From: autolib at marauder.millersv.edu (Galen M. Charlton) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: launching *.exe application In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Justin R Ervin wrote: [snip] > > We had good luck with W3launch on our Win 3.1 computers running Netscape > 3.x. However, our Win 95 computers running Netscape 4.x can launch .exe > and .bat files quite seamlessly and without installing additional > software. Just make sure that command.com is set up as your "helper app" > for .exe and .bat files (Netscape 4.x should come that way.) and you're > good to go! > =================Justin R Ervin================== > Computing Support Technician I > Jackson Library Electronic Information Resources, UNCG > jrervin@uncg.edu http://www.uncg.edu/~jrervin/ [exiting lurk mode] I would like to respectfully point out that using command.com as a 'helper' application for .exe and .bat files creates a security hole - there is nothing prevent an arbitrary program from being downloaded and executed. Imagine the consequences of a patron downloading and running this batch file: evil.bat: C: CD \WINDOWS ECHO Y | DEL *.* IMHO, the fact that Netscape 4.x appears to be set up to run programs downloaded from the web by default is a mistake. However, at least it will prompt you before executing the program (assuming that this prompting is not turned off). One reason we use W3Launch is because it can only be used to launch programs that are on a pre-specified list of 'approved' applications - and presumably one is not likely to put evil.bat on that list. [re-entering lurk mode] ------------------------------------------------- Galen Charlton autolib@marauder.millersv.edu Student Library Automation Assistant Ganser Library, Millersville University of PA Voice: 717.872.3720 Fax: 717.872.3854 From narnett at verity.com Mon Nov 10 10:53:08 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971110155308.00c76658@verity.com> At 09:37 AM 11/10/97 -0800, Sheryl Dwinell wrote: >... Maybe if we channel our frustration in a positive way, we might >have a hand in designing better information retrieval products. There's so >much good stuff on the Web, and it would be really great if we could help >people find it consistently without having to beat their heads (our ours!) >against a wall in the process! Just in case it's not obvious, some of us in the business of developing information retrieval software are paying close attention to the points of view of library science professionals. For Verity, our involvement with library professionals over the last few years has led us to evolve our product line substantially. We expect to deliver the first relevant products early next year; they've been previewed at a few public functions. These products will add cataloging capabilities to our traditional strengths in concept-based retrieval, with our profiling tools as a accelerator for subject-based cataloging. Having said all that, I must add that we are not designing our products specifically for libraries and librarians, with the exception of corporate librarians who are looking for a way to organize intranet resources. Nick Arnett Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From GLEN at rimu.cce.ac.nz Mon Nov 10 15:47:46 1997 From: GLEN at rimu.cce.ac.nz (Glen Davies) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Alta Vista Web Search Engines "Made Confusing" Message-ID: <2272423767F@rimu.cce.ac.nz> At a guess I would say that AltaVista have set a time limit on searches. When the time limit expires the hits retrieved thus far are returned. If you hit search in a quiet period then more results are returned as the search will execute quicker. The developers of the web interface to the Library System at my previous position did the above, set a time limit on searches and returned only the hits gathered in that time, with no indication to the user that it was an incomplete search! They also set a maximum limit of 500 results per search without telling the user , very confusing for somebody who had been into the library and searched for nursing and got 12000 hits but when searching through the web interface from their office only get 500. The main reason they did it was because the web server ground to a halt if no limits were set and several people were doing complex searches, no doubt alta - vista would do the same. > > I too have had Linda's experience with repeated searches returning > different results over a brief period of time. > > Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your > students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? > > Humorous replies welcome, as well as serious! > > --Dan Ream > Head, Instruction & Outreach Services > Virginia Commonwealth University Library > Richmond, Virginia, USA > > > > On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > > > > > My two cents: > > > > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > > retrieved. > > > > Scary.... > > > > LInda > > *********************************************************** Glen Davies Information Technology Librarian Christchurch College of Education Christchurch New Zealand glen@rimu.cce.ac.nz 64-3-343 7737 ************************************************************ "I've been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library" F.Scott Fitzgerald The Great Gatsby, ch3 ************************************************************ From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Mon Nov 10 15:50:55 1997 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: telnet links Message-ID: <15218590.3088155055@stem.uoregon.edu> Bobert Rasmussen asked last week how to set up Netscape 4(Windows) to invoke a telnet session at a nondefault port. I don't have an elegant way to do it, but there's a workaround that some people on this list may not be aware of. Suppose, for example, you want to invoke TeraTerm Pro, which wants a command line such as c:\telnet\ttermpro.exe sunsite.berkeley.edu /p=25 (though why anyone would have a legitimate reason to telnet to the SMTP port on sunsite is beyond me) In Netscape 4, you can set preferences->netscape->applications for URL:Telnet Protocol to contain the telnet program you want invoked. But if you set the application string to the above value it just plain doesn't work. It appears to be a bug in Netscape 4. The workaround is to create a little batch file, say c:\telnet\telnet.bat, containing @echo off c:\telnet\ttermpro.exe %1 /p=%2 then setting the telnet URL in Netscape to be c:\telnet\telnet.bat %1 %2 However, this has the unfortunate side effect of temporarily popping up a useless DOS window for every telnet connection. Brief experimentation with MSIE 4 and Windows Explorer seems to indicate that this trick does not work there. JQ Johnson office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator e-mail: jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon voice: 1-541-346-1746 Eugene, OR 97403-1299 fax: 1-541-346-3485 From LORI at camden.lib.nj.us Mon Nov 10 16:04:14 1997 From: LORI at camden.lib.nj.us (Lori A. Schwabenbauer, Camden County Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: phrase needed Message-ID: <971110160414.5475@camden.lib.nj.us> There was something called a Venn diagram, but it was more visual - involved drawing intersecting circles and shading in the area you were searching for: A+B but not just A or B (just the overlapping part would be shaded), A or B (the whole of the 2 circles would be shaded), and so forth. *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** Lori A. Schwabenbauer 609-772-1636 x3336 Supervisor, Automation Services fax 609-772-6105 Camden County Library lori@camden.lib.nj.us 203 Laurel Road http://www.cyberenet.net/~ccl/ Voorhees, NJ 08043 USA Opinions/ideas/gripes are mine. *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** >From: SMTP%"dbarclay@Bayou.UH.EDU" 7-NOV-1997 08:57:51.84 >To: LORI >CC: >Subj: Re: phrase needed > >I've heard such searches called "nested searches," but this may not be the >universally accepted term. Could there be a term from algebra that >describes such searches? > >Donald A. Barclay >Coordinator of Electronic Services always the beautiful answer >University of Houston Libraries who asks a more beautiful question >dbarclay@uh.edu --e.e. cummings >www.uh.edu/~dbarclay > >On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, bruce pomerantz wrote: > >> Dear Web4Libers, >> >> Hope you take the adage, "The only dumb question is the one unasked" to >> heart as I ask: >> >> In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you >> use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: >> >> (Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) >> >> Thanks for not laughing. >> >> Bruce Pomerantz >> On Sabbatical in Cincinnati >> From cbooher at kcc.com Mon Nov 10 16:52:32 1997 From: cbooher at kcc.com (Booher, Craig) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <3D9072FC0F3CD111BFFF00805F157CD8046669@ustcax10.kcc.com> On November 7, Ernest Perez wrote: ** We can quibble about Search Engine X getting 22,000 hits vs. Search Engine Y getting 14,000 hits. So what, do you plan on examining all of them? These systems operate on presentation ranking algorithms, and they attempt to present relevant items first. _I'm_ certainly not going to look at item #4,763, and I presume you aren't going to either. Now we have reached the second conundrum faced by users of Internet search engines - relevancy ranking. While our knowledge of the search engine details may be unacceptable, we know even less about their relevancy ranking algorithms. With what confidence can we state that (using the example provided) item #4,763 is less relevant than previously presented items? If the search engine is not conducting the search using our syntax (based on our contextual understanding of our information needs) how can we rely on an unknown relevancy ranking algorithm to present the information most relevant to our needs in priority order? As we call for more complete disclosure of search engine operations, let's also include a request for more extensive descriptions of these relevancy ranking algorithms. From sxb553 at anu.edu.au Tue Nov 11 10:21:25 1997 From: sxb553 at anu.edu.au (Saroj Bhatia) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" References: Message-ID: <346877F5.E4703377@anu.edu.au> Hi all, Very interesting discussion about Web Search Engines. I use METACRAWLER Search Engine which search all engines and remove duplicates and give ncomprehansive results. Try http://www.metacrawler.com Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: > On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > > retrieved. > > I wasn't going to bring this up. But Linda's experience gives me courage. > Last week I taught a class and a student and I entered EXACTLY the same > altavista search and got different results (I got something like 2,000 > postings and she got something like 600) ...I checked carefully that the > searches WERE identical--they were--and then I just had to shrug my > shoulders and move on with the class. > > How often do we get a chance to do simultaneous duplicate searches? > > I have also had experiences with excite where, as I work through a long > set of results, the number of matching sites changes wildly from page to > page. > > As someone pointed out earlier, you get what you pay for. I guess we can > ask for our money back. > > Mary-Ellen Mort > JobSmart Project Director > http://jobsmart.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971111/85e7af1e/attachment.htm From kroe at bgsm.edu Mon Nov 10 23:02:00 1997 From: kroe at bgsm.edu (Kieran Roe) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" Message-ID: <3467D8B8.7BBD@bgsm.edu> I am a librarian who is new to my Information Technology Specialist role. I will be responsible for training internet users and providing assistance with information technologies (both hardware and software) to a network of special medical libraries. I will also be involved with web page design. With the ability to join but one of the major library associations, I would like to choose the "best" of these national associations for the purposes of networking and professional development in info technology. I find the kind of discussions that take place on this mailing list to be quite relevant and educational. So I am curious -- which of the professional library associations have the members of this list found most useful for their professional development as information technologists? ALA, SLA and MLA each have information technology sections. Are there important differences in their focuses (beyond the obvious distinctions among library types)? The Internet Library Association (http://www-org.usm.edu/~ila/) looks to fill a very useful niche! However, I would also like to join the info technology division of one of the established national associations. Where do you belong and why? Many thanks for your assistance! Kieran Roe | kroe@bgsm.edu NW Area Health Education Center Library Hickory, NC From MANTONEL at library.unt.edu Mon Nov 10 19:26:02 1997 From: MANTONEL at library.unt.edu (Monika Antonelli) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS The Research and Statistics Committee of the Management of Public Services Section of RUSA is sponsoring its fourth annual Reference Research Forum at the 1998 American Library Association Annual Meeting in Washington, D.C. This is an opportunity to present and discuss your research project covering the broad area of reference services. Both completed research and research in progress will be considered. All researchers, including reference practitioners from all types of libraries, library school faculty and students, and other interested individuals are encouraged to submit a proposal. Suggested areas of investigation include: * Organization Structure and Personnel * Electronic Services * User Behavior * Reference Effectiveness The Committee will utilize a "blind" review process to select a maximum of three (3) projects for 25-minute presentations, followed by open discussion. Criteria for selection are: * Significance of the study for improving the quality of reference service * Quality and creativity of the methodology * Potential of the research to fill a gap in reference knowledge or to build on previous studies * Previously published research or research accepted by December 1, 1997 for publication will not be acceptable. Please submit a one-page proposal by DECEMBER 1, 1997. Notification of acceptance will be made by March 15, 1998. Submission must consist of two pages. On the first page, please list your name(s), title(s), institutional affiliation, and address (including your mail address, FAX number, and e-mail address). The second page should NOT show your name or any personal information. Instead, include the title of your project, a problem statement, a description of the methodology, and an explanation of significance. Electronic submissions are acceptable and must also be delivered in two parts. Please send submission to: Diana D. Shonrock, Coordinator, General Reference Section Iowa State University Library 152 Parks Library Ames, Iowa 50011-2140 (515) 294-7866 (work number); (512) 294-5525 (fax number); shonrock@iastate.edu (e-mail) From gszczyrb at marauder.millersv.edu Mon Nov 10 21:13:25 1997 From: gszczyrb at marauder.millersv.edu (Gregory Szczyrbak) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" In-Reply-To: <3467D8B8.7BBD@bgsm.edu> Message-ID: > > Where do you belong and why? American Society for Information Science I am a new memeber, so I do not have a lot of information, however I can say that their publication "Journal of the American Society of Information Science" is chock full of information. It is sometimes very technical, but always very interesting. They have a Library Automation and Networks SIG. The ASIS web page is predictably located at http://www.asis.org/ Happy hunting. ******************************************************************************* Gregory Szczyrbak (717) 872-3645 DESK Millersville University (717) 872 3854 FAX Ganser Library - Periodicals gszczyrb@marauder.millersv.edu Millersville, PA 17551 http://marauder.millersv.edu/~serials/ ******************************************************************************* From matthew.dovey at las.ox.ac.uk Mon Nov 10 21:20:27 1997 From: matthew.dovey at las.ox.ac.uk (Matthew Dovey) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" Message-ID: <906C8A8D539DD0119EA700609755686328F5C9@mercury.olis.ox.ac.uk> I would recommend that ASIS (American Society of Information Science) is worth a look http://www.asis.org Matthew J. Dovey Client-Server Development Libraries Automation Service Oxford University 65 St Giles Oxford OX1 3LU United Kingdom Tel: +44 1865 278272 Fax: +44 1865 278175 E-Mail: Matthew.Dovey@las.ox.ac.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: Kieran Roe [SMTP:kroe@bgsm.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 1:28 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" > > I am a librarian who is new to my Information Technology Specialist > role. > I will be responsible for training internet users and providing > assistance with information technologies (both hardware and software) > to > a network of special medical libraries. I will also be involved with > web page design. > > With the ability to join but one of the major library associations, I > would like to choose the "best" of these national associations for the > purposes of networking and professional development in info > technology. > > I find the kind of discussions that take place on this mailing list to > be quite relevant and educational. So I am curious -- which of the > professional library associations have the members of this list found > most useful for their professional development as information > technologists? > > ALA, SLA and MLA each have information technology sections. Are there > important differences in their focuses (beyond the obvious > distinctions > among library types)? The Internet Library Association > (http://www-org.usm.edu/~ila/) looks to fill a very useful niche! > However, I would also like to join the info technology division of one > of the established national associations. > > Where do you belong and why? > > Many thanks for your assistance! > > Kieran Roe | kroe@bgsm.edu > NW Area Health Education Center Library > Hickory, NC > From ttripp at inforamp.net Mon Nov 10 21:58:53 1997 From: ttripp at inforamp.net (Tim Tripp) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" References: <3.0.2.32.19971110102415.007a53a0@vms.csd.mu.edu> Message-ID: <3467C9ED.3A4F@inforamp.net> > >Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your > >students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? I think I have a clue, and it only dawned on me after dozens of postings on this thread appearead in my in box. Due to the particular size settings I have at the moment for my Netscape mailbox, and how those settings truncate long subject lines, when I retrieved my mail tonight, I was confronted by what appeared to be a message from my in box: Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Re: Web Search Engines "Mad Coincidence? Or a message from the cyber-beyond? You be the judge ;-) Tim -- Tim Tripp, Librarian Spar Space Systems (Brampton) Spar Aerospace Ltd. 9445 Airport Road Brampton, Ontario, Canada L6S 4J3 http://www.spar.ca/ Tel:(905) 790-2800 ext. 4108 Fax:(905) 790-4423 Work: ttripp@spar.ca Home: ttripp@inforamp.net From his at virtuallibrarian.com Mon Nov 10 22:14:12 1997 From: his at virtuallibrarian.com (Hetherington Information Services) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" In-Reply-To: <906C8A8D539DD0119EA700609755686328F5C9@mercury.olis.ox.ac. uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971110221412.006aa560@mail.virtuallibrarian.com> Hi I just sent in my membership check to ASIS today. http://www.asis.org The NJ chapter, in conjunction with SLA, is having a program on PC/Internet security on Nov. 12th. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in so they appealed to me greatly. Unfortunately I've found NJLA greatly lacking, and ALA too distant. -- Cynthia Hetherington Technology Librarian mailto:cyn@virtuallibrarian.com ******ICQ# 1112086****** http://www.virtuallibrarian.com/ From Sallie at abs.net Mon Nov 10 22:24:27 1997 From: Sallie at abs.net (Sallie Becker) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: Best Professional Association for "Cybrarians" References: <3467D8B8.7BBD@bgsm.edu> Message-ID: <3467CFEB.5E7E@abs.net> I have also come fairly recently (over the past two years) to assume a primarily technology-centric role in my library - I do the system admin duties for our OPAC and CD-ROM network, manage the library's website on our intranet, and do the general planning and implementation of major library technology projects. I'm a member of SLA and ASIS, and have had some peripheral experience with ALA through a colleague who is a member. I have found SLA to be the most beneficial of these three for useful and applicable programs, workshops, continuing education courses in information technology topics. The SLA Education Conferences (usually in January) have been an extraordinarily valuable resource - past topics have included internet search engines, library webpage design, teaching the internet in 50 minutes, intranets, etc. I have high hopes for the inaugural Internet Librarian Conference, beginning this Sunday in California, from Information Today (www.infotoday.com) and SLA. So, if I could choose only one, I would go with SLA. It will be interesting to hear the experiences and opinions of others. Good luck. Sallie -- ______________________________________________________________________ Sallie A. Becker National Security Agency Digital Media Librarian 9800 Savage Rd. sallie@abs.net Ft. G. G. Meade, MD 20755-6319 301.688.7581 301.688.0011 (fax) Kieran Roe wrote: > > I am a librarian who is new to my Information Technology Specialist > role. > I will be responsible for training internet users and providing > assistance with information technologies (both hardware and software) to > a network of special medical libraries. I will also be involved with > web page design. > > With the ability to join but one of the major library associations, I > would like to choose the "best" of these national associations for the > purposes of networking and professional development in info technology. > > I find the kind of discussions that take place on this mailing list to > be quite relevant and educational. So I am curious -- which of the > professional library associations have the members of this list found > most useful for their professional development as information > technologists? > > ALA, SLA and MLA each have information technology sections. Are there > important differences in their focuses (beyond the obvious distinctions > among library types)? The Internet Library Association > (http://www-org.usm.edu/~ila/) looks to fill a very useful niche! > However, I would also like to join the info technology division of one > of the established national associations. > > Where do you belong and why? > > Many thanks for your assistance! > > Kieran Roe | kroe@bgsm.edu > NW Area Health Education Center Library > Hickory, NC From danny at calafia.com Tue Nov 11 16:18:57 1997 From: danny at calafia.com (Danny Sullivan) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:06 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: <2272423767F@rimu.cce.ac.nz> Message-ID: <199711110519.WAA03643@calafia.com> > At a guess I would say that AltaVista have set a time limit on > searches. When the time limit expires the hits retrieved thus far > are returned. If you hit search in a quiet period then more > results are returned as the search will execute quicker. Yes, this is exactly correct. It also seems to have been magnified recently by the expansion of the index from roughly 30 million to 100 million web pages. This is a particular problem when doing a popular url: or site: style search. These put more of a burden on the service. A solution can be to use one of AltaVista's mirror sites. They have exactly the same information, maybe only a few days old. But they have far less traffic, so your searches will get farther than they might during a busy US period. danny ----------------------------------- Danny Sullivan, Search Engine Watch http://searchenginewatch.com From kambitsch at DAYTON.LIB.OH.US Sun Nov 16 15:29:58 1997 From: kambitsch at DAYTON.LIB.OH.US (Tim Kambitsch) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:10 2005 Subject: Using Netscape 4.04 as an NT 4.0 Custom Shell Message-ID: <346F57BF.DA0CE596@dayton.lib.oh.us> We are a week away from deploying WinNT 4.0 workstations for use by the public. These will be using Netscape Navigator 4.04 Standalone version. Under Windows NT Policy editor you have the ability to define a custom shell. In my experiments, I've found while I can get Navigator to startup as the "Custom Shell", when users exit Netscape there is just a blank screen. There is no way to get back to the application. Does anyone know if there is a way to have the custom shell application restart after its been closed? From kgs at bluehighways.com Sat Nov 29 20:15:53 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:16:22 2005 Subject: Video of PICS conference available via ILL Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971129201553.0073e478@panix.com> "Content Selection, PICS and the Internet," a videotape of the 6/27/97 conference co-sponsored by ALA-OIF, OCLC Office of Research and the World Wide Web Consortium, is now available via Interlibrary Loan, according to the September/October OCLC Newsletter. The OCLC control # is 37609333. "Borrowed tapes may be duplicated for use by the borrowing organization." This was a very interesting preconference that offered our profession a first look at PICS, the technical platform informing Web rating schemes, as well as a tentative foray into discussions of Internet filtering. I had been hoping for an audiotape--this is even better! Getting the popcorn ready... ______________________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters *** Now Available! *** Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4, http://www.neal-schuman.com Information is hard work --------------------------------------------------------- From scramer at davenport.edu Sun Nov 2 13:35:11 1997 From: scramer at davenport.edu (Steve Cramer) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:53 2005 Subject: Electronic libraries (electronic ink) Message-ID: Charles P. Hobbs "That I'd like to see. How would such a system look like. (I'm envisioning something like an LCD screen, but I feel somewhat limited by my own imagination at this time)." _____________________________________ Joseph M. Jacobson, a professor of media arts and sciences at MIT, first proposed electronic ink (as far as I know). Basically, a thin layer of millions of tiny balls, black on one hemisphere and white on the other (there could be a pool of other colors, too) are manipulated by radio-transmissions emitted from a second layer of circuitry. Viewed against a layer a paper, the display looks like traditional ink on paper. Unlike LCD displays, however, power-use is minimal -- electronic ink requires no additional power to retain a display. There's more info at: "Electronic ink on a paper screen." by Jim Rosenberg. Editor & Publisher, August 9, 1997 v130 n32 p20 "Surfaces and Displays" by Nicholas Negroponte [Jacobson's boss], Wired, January 1997, p. 212 personally, I think this would pretty neat! Steve Cramer Davenport College Holland, Michigan USA scramer@davenport.edu From NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Sun Nov 2 17:19:00 1997 From: NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA (Alain Vaillancourt) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:53 2005 Subject: Electronic libraries, ultra flat screen "look" Message-ID: <199711022227.RAA26710@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> > Charles P. Hobbs > "That I'd like to see. How would such a system look like. > (I'm envisioning something like an LCD screen, but I feel > somewhat limited by my own imagination at this time)." If you just want to know how it would look like, in context, just rent out 2001 A space Odyssey. Take a look at the scenes inside the Discovery. The command and control screens are all high resolution color, but the astronauts also use ultra-thin (looks like less than 1/8 of an inch) black and white screens that seem to be completely portable. One of them is watching a BBC TV programme on it while eating, without seeming the least worried about geting food on its surface. You see those screens a few seconds only but it must have taken days of work by the effects and props crews to get everything just right to create the illusion of a flat screen, lying there, casually askance on the dinner table. The interesting thing is that the film was produced more than 30 years ago. Au revoir Alain Vaillancourt ndgmtlcd@gslsi.lan.mcgill.ca ====================================================================== From librlc at emory.edu Mon Nov 3 08:46:44 1997 From: librlc at emory.edu (Bob Craigmile) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971103134644.013679f0@pop3.service.emory.edu> Great little story about how useful libraries on the web are. http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/sites/110397sites.html +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian Pitts Theology Library, Emory University librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Mon Nov 3 09:57:38 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: [CFP] 1998 IATUL Annual Conference (June 1-7 1998: Pretoria, South Africa) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971103095737.00a41b60@nlc-bnc.ca> SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT and CALL FOR PAPERS NOVEMBER 1997 1998 IATUL ANNUAL CONFERENCE JUNE 1-7 1998 UNIVERSITY OF PRETORIA PRETORIA, SOUTH AFRICA The Challenge to be relevant in the 21st Century The 1998 IATUL Annual Conference, the first to be held in Africa, will provide a forum for representatives from developed and developing countries to: - share views - gain perspectives with regard to the challenges facing library and information services in the 21st century - promote the networking essential for developing countries as they strive to ensure access to the world-wide wealth of information. Whether you come from the developed or developing world, The Challenge to be Relevant in the 21st Century is important for your professional survival and well-being. Libraries are under threat to be bypassed by their clients. This conference may be a turning point in your own career and a landmark in the future of your library. The Board of the International Association of Technological University Libraries (IATUL) invites you to participate as speaker, panellist or delegate and look forward to meeting you in Pretoria. Please indicate your intention to contribute to the programme by completing and returning the Expression of Interest form. Full details of the conference will then be sent to you if necessary. Abstracts must be received by 15 January 1998. You will be notified of the results of your application by mid February 1998. Papers must be received by 1 May 1998. Contributions are invited in line with the following sub-themes: Linking up with megatrends The millennium trends of the nineties will influence and shape the important elements of our lives well into the 21st century. To make the most of these extraordinary times we must be aware of the changes that surround us and develop our plans for the future with them in mind. The following sub-topics for presentation and discussions are envisaged: * Megatrends (large social, economic, political and technological changes) which may alter the conditions of our lives * Consumer trends * The future of higher education, research and scholarly communication * The future of libraries Riding the technology wave In this century nothing has had such a profound influence on the information services sector as the advent of the information society. Whether we perceive it as a threat or a marvellous opportunity depends on our ability to use it to our advantage. Digital libraries and the Internet are gaining ground both inside and outside traditional libraries. The developing world runs the risk of being left behind. Sub-topics * Maturation of the information society * Digital libraries and information services * Internet: information source and marketing mechanism * The demise of power bases * Mainstreaming the developing world Doing more with less Universities and their libraries and information services are under severe scrutiny by governments, tax payers and clients. New money is just not forthcoming. This situation may provide us with the incentive to "reinvent ourselves". Sub-topics: * Strategic partnerships and alliances * How to avoid being bypassed * Oganizational solutions * Beating the competition * Services management * Selling information services * Alternative sources of funding * New teaching and learning models and their impact on information services * Electronic classrooms * Information services to remote users How to remain relevant and stay in business Transformation is inevitable. However, our plans and efforts will only be effective if they are placed in the right context and if the results are rigorously checked against the expectations and real needs of our clients. Sub-topics: * Our clients and their needs * Assessments of outcomes * Performance measurement * Inventing new roles for information services * Selling information and/or cost recovery * Serving the community: information literacy for all * Serving empowered consumers More information on the topics for presentation and discussion, the format of the papers and selection criteria is available on the home page of the 1998 IATUL Conference: http://www.up.ac.za/asservices/ais/iatul98/conf98.htm Acceptance or otherwise of your proposal will be at the discretion of the Programme subcommittee. The content of your proposal will be evaluated for relevance to the conference theme, clarity, originality, and timeliness. Proposals should be for original work that has not been presented elsewhere. Conference presenters will be required to: * register for and attend the conference * design and use high quality presentation materials * return all forms, releases, paper, etc. on time * grant copyright to IATUL for all papers and abstracts to be published * consent to electronic recording of presentations ______________________________________________________________ EXPRESSION OF INTEREST FORM I wish to contribute to the programme by Presenting a paper [ ] Panel discussion [ ] Poster [ ] Proposing a topic for roundtable discussions [ ] Please send me the latest information on the 1998 IATUL Annual Conference as it becomes available: By mail [ ] By e-mail [ ] Speakers interested in making a presentation must return this form together with a 250-500 word abstract by 15 January 1998. Applicants will be notified of the result of their applications by mid February 1998. Title of contribution _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ Name of speaker _______________________________________________________ Institution _______________________________________________________ Work Address _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ Fax _______________________________________________________ E-mail _______________________________________________________ Fax, e-mail or mail your proposal to: The Conference Secretary (Ria van der Spuy) Academic Information Services University of Pretoria Pretoria South Africa E-mail: iatul@acinfo.up.ac.za Tel.: +27 (12) 4203792 Fax: +27 (12) 3422453 Registration forms are available on the WWW or from the above- mentioned address Basic fee for full conference: $130.00 (Social events extra) From N.Bowskill at sheffield.ac.uk Mon Nov 3 10:04:05 1997 From: N.Bowskill at sheffield.ac.uk (N.Bowskill) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Teaching the Internet via the Internet Message-ID: [Apologies for cross posting] ****Announcing the 5th nls-forum guest speaker **** The NetLinkS project is pleased to announce the fifth event in a programme of discussions led by "guest speakers". Due to popular demand, these discussions have become a regular feature of our discussion list - nls-forum - and we would like to invite you to take part. We are delighted to welcome Walter Scales, Trainer for the Netskills Project at the University of Newcastle, who has very generously offered to lead a discussion for a period of 3 weeks from this Wednesday (5th November) on the topic of "Teaching the Internet via the Internet." We're sure Walter will be raising some challenging, not to say thorny, issues and we hope many of you will be keen to join in to share experience and views. So we hope you'll make the 5th a date for your virtual diaries :-) Those of you who didn't participate in our earlier conferences they are all archived on the NetLinkS Project Web Site at : http://netways.shef.ac.uk/discuss/arcintro.htm If you have not already joined nls-forum, here's what you need to do: HOW TO JOIN NLS-FORUM: To subscribe, send the following message: join nls-forum firstname lastname This should be the only text in the body of the message addressed to: mailbase@mailbase.ac.uk EXAMPLE: join nls-forum Josephine Bloggs (remembering to substitute your own name!) NetLinkS aim to make discussions of this kind a regular feature on the list, and to archive them at the NetLinkS Web site. Please do let us know if you have any suggestions for hot topics, or would like to lead a discussion yourself - we want to make the programme as relevant and interesting as possible, so your input is needed! NetLinkS is a Training and Awareness project supported by the Joint Information Systems Committee of the Higher Education Funding Council of England, as part of its Electronic Libraries programme. http://netways.shef.ac.uk/about/staff/nick.htm NetLinkS Project, Dept. of Information Studies, University of Sheffield, Western Bank, Sheffield S10 2TN Tel: +44-114-222-2653 Fax: +44-114-278-0300 From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Mon Nov 3 10:51:38 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: [CFP]Canadian Association for Information Science (June 3-5, 1998: Ottawa, Canada) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971103105137.00ab76b0@nlc-bnc.ca> ................................................................ Call for Participation 26th Annual Conference of the Canadian Association for Information Science/ Association canadienne des sciences de l'information 3-5 June 1998 Universite d'Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario Information Science at the Dawn of the Millennium For more than a quarter of century Canadian information scientists have met to discuss the access, retrieval, production, organization, distribution, value, use and management of information. From those early days of examining computational ways of manipulating information through to investigations of information as communication, CAIS has provided a forum for presentation, discussion and debate. CAIS/ACSI '98 continues this noteworthy tradition. CAIS/ACSI '98 will be held at the Universite d'Ottawa, in Canada's national capital, Ottawa, Ontario. CAIS will be meeting with the 1998 Congress of Social Sciences and Humanities which will offer exceptional opportunities for creative contacts and fruitful between CAIS delegates and members of the other 80 learned societies that will meet concurrently. We seek submissions related to any aspect of information science, particularly those which exemplify the leading edge of our discipline. Submissions must include a 500 word extended abstract of the proposed paper. The author(s) name, complete address, phone, fax and email should be included on a separate sheet. Abstracts will be refereed; final papers will be published in the proceedings and presented at the conference. Preference will be given to papers that report research or debate underlying methodological/philosophical issues, rather than those that report on plans yet to be implemented. Deadlines >>> for abstracts: January 15, 1998. >>> notification of acceptance: February 15, 1998. >>> for final papers (3,000-4,000 words) in electronic form: April 15, 1998. Doctoral candidates are especially invited to submit to the conference. CAIS will be awarding a full conference registration and one year membership to the best student submission. Student submissions must be single-authored. Please indicate student status on your submission. Initial submissions in print or electronic form (ASCII, Word or Wordperfect) should be sent to: Elaine Toms CAIS '98 Program Chair School of Library and Information Studies Dalhousie University Halifax, NS B3H 3J5 Voice: (902)494-2452 Fax: (902)494-2451 E-Mail: etoms@is.dal.ca CAIS '98 Programme Committee Jamshid Beheshti McGill University Pierrette Bergeron Universite de Montreal Joan Cherry University of Toronto Chun Wei Choo University of Toronto Ann Curry University of British Columbia Wendy Duff University of Toronto Bernd Frohmann University of Western Ontario Lynne Howarth University of Toronto Andrew Large McGill University Lynn Mackechnie University of Western Ontario Stephen Marsh NRC Institute for Information Technology Michael Nelson University of Western Ontario Hope Olson University of Alberta Yuri Quintana University of Western Ontario Alvin Schrader University of Alberta Michael Shepherd Dalhousie University Albert Tabah Universite de Montreal Elaine Toms, Chair Dalhousie University Margaret Wilkinson University of Western Ontario Elaine Toms ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ School of Library and Information Studies Voice: (902)494-2452 Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University Fax: (902)494-2451 Halifax, N.S. B3H 4H8 E-Mail: etoms@is.dal.ca From Jenny.Booker at newcastle.ac.uk Mon Nov 3 16:00:29 1997 From: Jenny.Booker at newcastle.ac.uk (JENNY BOOKER) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Web support pages for students Message-ID: <199711031600.QAA06493@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk> I'm about to write a web page, for students, giving some help/advice on using the internet in their studies, which will be a general support page that acdemics can link to if they are planning to use the web in their teaching, which will cover things like what is the internet, how to search it, tips of most effective use in your studies, etc.. As yet I haven't found any other examples of this type of page, but it would be useful to see some. So if anyone can point me to examples of similar types of pages, I'd be grateful. TIA Jenny ---------------------------------------------------------- Jenny Booker WWW Project Coordinator The Robinson Library University of Newcastle upon Tyne Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 4HQ Tel: 0191 2226688 email: Jenny.Booker@newcastle.ac.uk ---------------------------------------------------------- From ras at nimbus.anzio.com Mon Nov 3 12:17:06 1997 From: ras at nimbus.anzio.com (Robert Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: telnet links In-Reply-To: <37845272.3087297108@stem.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, JQ Johnson wrote: > ... > If your PC telnet program accepts switches, you can customize your Netscape > or MSIE settings to pass switches (including port number) to the program in > the format it expects. Details of how to set this up depend on browser > version. Since I'm a Mac user at the moment, I'll defer to a PC person to > describe the setup for Netscape 4, which is somewhat obscure. I have looked in vain for documentation from Netscape on how to customize this information. I've looked in published books, on their web site, and in their online help. I think they haven't published it, which makes it easier to change it every release! My solution has been to adapt our telnet (Anzio Lite) to work with the parameters that Netscape and IE send it, as well as possible. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Mon Nov 3 12:16:43 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: [DOC] ICA Publications on Electronic Records Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971103121643.00b3ae00@nlc-bnc.ca> The International Council on Archives (ICA) is pleased to announce the publication of three products prepared by the ICA Committee on Electronic Records. The mandate of the Committee, which was established in 1993 and concluded its work in 1997, was to undertake study and research, promote the exchange of experience and draft standards and directives concerning the creation and archival processing of electronic records. The first product is the Guide for Managing Electronic Records from an Archival Perspective. The Guide is designed to help archival institutions address the management of electronic records. Part I examines the technological, organizational and legal trends impacting on the ability of institutions (including archives) to manage these records, presents a discussion of the concepts of "record", "record keeping", "electronic record", and other related terms which were developed for the purposes of the Guide and proposes strategies for the management of electronic records. Part I concludes with some discussion about the implications for archives as they reposition themselves to manage electronic records of archival value. Part II of the Guide describes the first of a number of the tactics archives can use to implement the strategies described in Part 1. The second product of the Committee is the Electronic Records: A Literature Review. Based on an exhaustive review of the international literature on electronic records, Alf Erlandsson of the International Monetary Fund produced for the use of the Committee a substantial document that provided an excellent overview of the evolution that has taken place in the concepts and strategies related to the management of electronic records from an archival perspective. The Committee concluded that because the literature review could help archivists understand the broad context within which strategies such as those discussed in the Committee's draft Guide have been placed, it should be made available more broadly. It is hoped that the literature review will provide an important tool for use in education and training programs that focus on electronic records. The third product of the Committee is the Electronic Records Programs: Report on the 1994/95 Survey. The purpose of the survey, which was generously supported by the Centre des Archives contemporaines [Les Archives nationales de France] and the National Archives of Singapore, was to compile a directory of those archival institutions that have established or are planning to establish a program to manage electronic records. The directory is intended to facilitate information sharing and to highlight problem areas that the Committee should address. It is also intended to serve as a baseline upon which progress in establishing electronic records programs at the international level can be assessed through time. As well as a report on the findings of the survey, the product contains detailed tables describing information on the organizational and legal frameworks for electronic records programs, their program structures, and their technical specifications, information holdings, and access provisions. All three products are available in both electronic (WordPerfect 6.1) and hard copy form or by accessing the ICA web site at http://www.archives.ca/ica/p-er/english.html For additional information on the products of the Committee on Electronic Records please contact: Information Management Standards & Practices National Archives of Canada 395 Wellington Street Ottawa ON K1A ON3 Tel: (613) 947-1515 Fax: (613) 947-1500 Internet: IMSP@archives.ca The members of the Committee on Electronic Records are: Peter Anderson, Scottish Record Office; Niklaus Buetikofer, Federal Archives of Switzerland; Mich?le Conchon, National Archives of France; Ivar Fonnes, National Archives of Norway Hans Hofman, National Archives of the Netherlands; Gertrude Long, International Monetary Fund; John McDonald (Chair), National Archives of Canada; Steve Stuckey, Australian Archives; Ken Thibodeau (Secretary), U.S. National Archives and Records Administration; Pitt Kuan Wah, National Archives of Singapore. ****************************** John McDonald Director Information Management Standards & Practices National Archives of Canada 395 Wellington Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N3 tel: (613) 947-1510 fax: (613) 947-1500 e-mail: jmcdonald@archives.ca From peterso at busadm.cba.hawaii.edu Mon Nov 3 12:42:41 1997 From: peterso at busadm.cba.hawaii.edu (Peterson, Richard Einer) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Web support pages for students Message-ID: <47EC35B2828@busadm.cba.hawaii.edu> Jenny, The course I teach, BUS313 Economic and Financial Environment of International Business, is Internet-intensive and the students produce Student Web Reports on international companies. All relevant links are located at http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rpeterso/onestop.htm Best Regards, Richard Prof. Richard Einer Peterson College of Business Administration University of Hawaii Honolulu Hi USA email: rpeterso@hawaii.edu > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:20:32 -0800 > Reply-to: Jenny.Booker@newcastle.ac.uk > From: "JENNY BOOKER" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Web support pages for students > I'm about to write a web page, for students, giving some help/advice > on using the internet in their studies, which will be a general > support page that acdemics can link to if they are planning to use > the web in their teaching, which will cover things like what is the > internet, how to search it, tips of most effective use in your > studies, etc.. As yet I haven't found any other examples of this > type of page, but it would be useful to see some. So if anyone can > point me to examples of similar types of pages, I'd be grateful. > > TIA Jenny > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jenny Booker > WWW Project Coordinator > The Robinson Library > University of Newcastle upon Tyne > Newcastle upon Tyne > NE2 4HQ > Tel: 0191 2226688 > email: Jenny.Booker@newcastle.ac.uk > ---------------------------------------------------------- > From dmadriga at unix2.nysed.gov Mon Nov 3 13:16:44 1997 From: dmadriga at unix2.nysed.gov (Diane Madrigal) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: HTML question Message-ID: Thanks to all those who took the time to check out my site and make suggestions about the image that wasn't displaying correctly. Thomas Dowling's suggestion to check that all other code validates properly turned out to hold the answer. I ran the page through an on-line validator and found a problem with the table that occurs between the two lines. For some reason, fixing that problem fixed the problem with the lines as well - even though they aren't part of the table. Thanks again! Diane Madrigal New York State Library From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Nov 3 14:17:20 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Changes in Morrisville College's LibraryLinks Message-ID: <01bce88d$1b2e8e80$0853cc88@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu> I recently made several cosmetic changes to our LibraryLinks webpages. I am asking for input and for how they now display on different machines and browsers. I am experiementing with borderless tables using the bgcolor attribute to add emphasis and to make the pages more readable. Please reply to me directly and not to the list. Thanks. -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu IRC(irc.dal.net port 7000):#academiclibrarians (sysop/ops) ICQ:UIN#268569 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wilfred Drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971103/6e23d284/WilfredDrew.vcf From mhuber1 at umbc.edu Mon Nov 3 15:47:32 1997 From: mhuber1 at umbc.edu (Michael Huber) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Restricting users to a set of IP's/DNS names Message-ID: We are migrating from CD-Rom to Web based databases (many will no longer be available on CD-Rom). Hence; we need to replace our CD-Rom based workstations with web browers. The problem is restricting these machines to a certain set of IP addresses or DNS names to prevent users from using these machines for something other than database access. Has anyone ever used/heard of software that will meet this need? i.e. restricting URL's? Posted for: Steve Jones From msauers at bcr.org Mon Nov 3 16:23:49 1997 From: msauers at bcr.org (Michael Sauers) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Restricting users to a set of IP's/DNS names Message-ID: <01bce89e$c6b29380$50912dc7@bcr.org.bcr.org> >workstations with web browers. The problem is restricting these machines >to a certain set of IP addresses or DNS names to prevent users from using >these machines for something other than database access. Funny you should ask... I just received this this morning. It's sort of a kludge but it works. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew J. Mutch To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, November 01, 1997 10:23 AM Subject: Locking in IP addresses with Netscape Navigator >For those of you who are looking for a cheap and easy way to restrict >Netscape Navigator to selected web addresses, I have created several web >pages that explain how to do this. > >They can be found at: > >http://northville.lib.mi.us/tech/lockin.htm > >These pages deal specifically with the FirstSearch and SearchBank on-line >databases but the method can be adapted to to other sites as well. > >BTW, a big Thanks! to Glen Davies (GLEN@rimu.cce.ac.nz) who first posted >this solution to this list. > >Andrew Mutch >Northville District Library >Northville, MI > > From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Mon Nov 3 16:43:21 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Locking down Netscape Navigator - Part 2 Message-ID: Hi all, As promised, this is the second installment in creating a KIOSK-type browser. First, a couple of qualifiers. 1) This method does not restrict by IP address. Please see the directions on how to do this at: http://northville.lib.mi.us/tech/lockin.htm 2) This method does not disable CTRL and ALT keys. These keys can be disabled using javascript in NN 4.0 IF you use either a Signed Script or run the page on a SSL Server. Both methods involve processes I am not completely familiar with and I have not personally tested either method. What this will do is create a Browser window with only the ToolBar enabled. Users will not have any access to the file menus, preventing them from altering the preferences and other settings. As this kind of mischief is the cause of most of our problems, this should cut-out some of your headaches. Also, unlike 3rd party software, this method is FREE. HOW DOES IT WORK? The following code uses Javascript to open a new window to a specific page. It then closes the "start-up" window, leaving the "new" window by itself. IMPORTANT: You must set the page which contains this script as the "home" page which the browser opens to. Otherwise, you will recieve an Alert asking you whether you wish to confirm the closing of the window. This alert would allow a user to cancel the window closing and access the "unsecured" browser. The following is the HTML code to create this "log-in" page. Modify it as necessary to fit your library's standards. The only "required" parts are everything between the OK, once you have this page created, set it as your browser's "home page" and give it a whirl. BTW, if you have to change your browser's preferences, you'll have to change the page itself, removing the WinClose function, so that the initial window does not close. I know it's a hassle but hopefully, you won't have to do it too often. This method works with Navigator 3.0 and 4.0 and IE 4.0. Also, I'm working on web pages that explain this. Let me know how it works for you! Andrew Mutch Northville District Library Northville, MI From hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU Mon Nov 3 16:54:39 1997 From: hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU (Steve Hooley) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Halloween refernce Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971103165707.35bfe5da@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> My boss was stationed on Taiwan during his military days - he stated that there was a Day of the Dead, probably New Year but I'm not sure, in which food was brought to the cemetery for the ancestors and left outside the tombs. Firecrackers were also involved, which is why I think it might have been New Years. >At 11:24 AM 11/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Clemens Ruthner wrote: >> >>> In customs like Beggar's Night (mentioned by Lee Jennings) the actors >>> primarily represented the dead (gifts to the dead in ancient rituals), >>> not the poor. Christendom is as it seems responsible for those changes. >> >>Wasn't this carried over from the Druid tradition of making sacrifices to >>placate the dead? >> >> >>Lewis > > > That's debateable, and certainly such sacrifices weren't unique to >the druids. The Roman perspective on history is what gives us that >impression. I do think that leaving food out for the dead was probably a >pre-Christian custom and giving it to the poor was probably a later >adaptation of that custom. > > > K.A. Price > KPrice2@niu.edu > z979592@wheat.farm.niu.edu > > > > *+============================* | Stephen S. Hooley | Statesboro Ga | Romulan Tech Assistant | Home of the | Henderson Library | Statesboro |"It's Only a Job Description"| Blues | Georgia Southern University |www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/hooleyss +=============================+ Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? From jjones at lib.bsu.edu Mon Nov 3 17:36:36 1997 From: jjones at lib.bsu.edu (Jim Jones) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Death Threat Woes ---Revisited In-Reply-To: <199711031841.KAA27243@palos-verdes.lib.ca.us> from "Anna Trupiano" at Nov 3, 97 10:41:36 am Message-ID: <199711032236.RAA02910@lib.bsu.edu> Anna wrote: > > All of this is true, but I think the point is that through > hotmail, rocketmail, etc. the users MUST log into their own > account first (i.e. identify themselves as the person logging > in). From there, if they send "death threats," they are doing > so through an account they accessed at hotmail, rocketmail, etc. > Actually, that wasn't the point. There were wonderings about whether or not a message sent from a hotmail-type of account could be directly tied to a computer (which in turn means a building, or library in this discussion). I went ahead and signed up for a rocketmail account so that I could send myself a message and analyze the headers. In the header that I posted, you can clearly see (if not its pointed out for you) that the IP address of the machine is listed from which I accessed rocketmail and sent the message. Now to tackle your points. A person logging into a hotmail account is not necessarily traceable by the information that they used to get the account in the first place. My name may be Jim Jones, but I can get an account as Nancy Drew. Web-Mail services ask that you to not do this as part of their Terms of Service agreements, but the only punishment is removal of the offending account and the reservation of the right to deny present and future access to the service. There exists no authentication process so there exists no direct tie to one individual or another. By the way, the sending of threats or harassments from such accounts is also prohibited in the ToS. You note this somewhat below. > > It is also true that anyone can setup a second, or probably even > more accounts at these sites (hotmail, rocketmail, etc.), do their > "dirty deed" (even from a "library" computer) and then "skip-out" > so to speak. It's also possible to guess at passwords and borrow a > legitimate users' account, and do that "dirty deed" there. > So noted. No disagreement here. The darned things are pretty open to abuses of this sort. I think this is why people were asking about the ramifications of such in the first place. The thinking process has been: (1) This can be done. (2) Are we (libraries) liable for such abuses? (3) Can and should we do something about it? > Surely, libraries really cannot prevent anyone from accessing/using > their own e-mail accounts (especially since there is no software that > is setup on the individual library microcomputers). Certainly, all Actually, there exists the ability to prevent users from accessing their email accounts (both web-based and not). The question is should they and will they? Filtering software can filter specific web sites. We all know this. Web-based email requires visiting a specific site to get and send web-based email. Therefore libraries have the _ability_ to restrict access to web-based email by filtering web-based email sites. Will libraries do it? Should libraries do it? Those are the questions. Additionally, libraries can restrict access to non-web-based email by not providing software (i.e. Eudora, telnet) to access accounts with. Email can also be prohibited by library policies. Again, the two questions come up. > of these sites will (and do) keep track of who is accessing and from > where. > > The real question is what is hotmail, rocketmail, etc. going to do > about it? The service they provide is based on their belief that > access is not a "right"... abuse of that access will be subject to > revoking the user account. We (a library) provide the hardward; > they (e-mail providers) provide the software. I don't think we can > be held accountable, simply because the software is the "key" here. > Actually, the software issue is blurred in the case of web-based email. Since the web-sites are accessed with the client on the PC, they are part of the client software. The software running on the PC (both provided by the library) is needed to interpret the pages on the server (provided by the service) for the user. Software and "point-of-access" are the key here. Libraries provide both. If a user does not want the threatening message tied to a computer that is tied to him/her (home or work computers), the user just has to find an anonymous "point-of-access." That combined with relatively anonymous email (remember, no authentification) creates a situation where a person can harass or threaten someone else with little fear of reproach. Let's take this a step further. A patron who has access to the preferences of a World Wide Web browser does not even need a real email account to have the ability to harass or threaten anonymously. They can set the mail preferences to identfy them as anyone from any made-up account name. If libraries don't have any policies concerning email use they may be leaving themselves open for potential consequences. These are the main points that were being tossed around about this topic on web4lib. At least that is how I saw it. > Sure they may come back to us, and say that this workstation did > "such-and-so" on "XXX date and time" and ask "who was using it?" > But, are we obligated to keep records of usage? Are we obligated > to log users' ID's and time spect on each workstation? Are we > obligated to keep users "chained" to a particular workstation > "because that is where we logged you in?" None of that would work > either. > No one is obligated or few are assuming that obligation if it does exist. I think that it should be talked about though. Let me ask the net community, how would you feel as a human being if you found out that your hardware and software (put out in the public as instruments of learning, research and fun explorations) were used as a point of presence for someone to harass, embarass or threaten someone else? I know that I would feel very badly about this, especially if I had never conceived that it was a possibility. I would have appreciated the information before hand in order to make an informed decision. A lot of what we talk about is theoretical in many fields, organizations and careers. Sometimes we have to step into the problems that we toss solutions around for and look at them from every single angle, inside and out, and come to an informed decision about them. I'm not saying what is right or wrong, what I am saying is that I do not know and appreciate the perspective that dicussion brings. > People with malicious intent will find a way to accomplish what they > will. Most people, thankfully, are not like that. > True on both accounts. But some are. I can not tell you how many "fake" email addresses I have cleared from the preferences of my web browsers. Many of them didn't sound to friendly. > > > At 09:08 AM 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote: > >To settle some of the ponderings concerning whether or not > >net-based email can be traced to a machine, here's a copy of > >a rocketmail email header: > > > > > > > > > >Received: from web4.rocketmail.com ([205.180.57.78]) > > by gw (GroupWise SMTP/MIME daemon 4.1 v3) > > ; Thu, 30 Oct 97 11:02:11 INDIANA > >Message-ID: <19971030155546.13824.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> > > > > Here's the culprit! > >||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > >VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV > >Received: from [147.226.94.73] by web4; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:55:46 PST > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > > >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:55:46 -0800 (PST) > >From: Jim Jones > >Subject: Test of rocketmail headers > >To: jjones2@wp.bsu.edu > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > > > > >Right next to Received: above you find the originating "from" machine IP > address > >from where it originated. A simple InterNic lookup on the domain (147.226) > part > >of the IP address will produce the name and office number of the person to call > >if you run into issues from traffic originating from that domain. > > > >Quite simple internet sleuthing. > > > >I am sure that Hotmail and any others are the same way. > > > >Jim Jones > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Visit our Website.... http://muse.palos-verdes.lib.ca.us > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Anna Trupiano Palos Verdes Library District > Systems Administrator 701 Silver Spur Road > Phone: (310) 377-9584 X258 Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA 90274 > FAX: (310) 541-6807 > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > From jon at net.lut.ac.uk Mon Nov 3 17:43:15 1997 From: jon at net.lut.ac.uk (Jon Knight) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Locking down Netscape Navigator - Part 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Andrew J. Mutch wrote: > 2) This method does not disable CTRL and ALT keys. These keys can be > disabled using javascript in NN 4.0 IF you use either a Signed Script or > run the page on a SSL Server. Both methods involve processes I am not > completely familiar with and I have not personally tested either method. If you've got dedicated web browsing workstations (such as web opacs) one _very_ effective way to stop people screwing about with opening random URLs is to unsolder the CTRL keys on the keyboard. Works a treat in our library... :-) Tatty bye, Jim'll -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon "Jim'll" Knight, Researcher, Sysop and General Dogsbody, Dept. Computer Studies, Loughborough University of Technology, Leics., ENGLAND. LE11 3TU. * I've found I now dream in Perl. More worryingly, I enjoy those dreams. * From mark.ellis at rpl.richmond.bc.ca Mon Nov 3 17:53:54 1997 From: mark.ellis at rpl.richmond.bc.ca (Mark Ellis) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Public libraries in _Byte_ Message-ID: There's a small sidebar and pie graph on page 19 of the November '97 issue of _Byte_ which summarizes the results of some market research done by CommerceNet/Nielsen Media Research. 46% of those using "alternative points of access" to the Internet used public libraries for this service. ("alternative" being other than home, school or office) Public libraries' share of this market is 2.5 times of size of the next most frequently cited access point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ellis Network Support Analyst Phone: (604) 231-6410 Richmond Public Library Email: mark.ellis@rpl.richmond.bc.ca Richmond, British Columbia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From day at indiana.edu Mon Nov 3 18:39:25 1997 From: day at indiana.edu (Dorothy Day) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Halloween refernce In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971103165707.35bfe5da@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Steve Hooley wrote: > My boss was stationed on Taiwan during his military days - he stated > that there was a Day of the Dead, probably New Year but I'm not sure, in > which food was brought to the cemetery for the ancestors and left outside > the tombs. Firecrackers were also involved, which is why I think it might > have been New Years. Interesting thread, increasingly irrelevant to web4lib, but I'll add one more bit. The Chinese Feast of Souls is observed on the 15th of the 7th lunar month, which usually occurs in August. Offerings are made to "hungry ghosts" (probably a Hindu imported notion), who have no descendents to worship them, to give them peace. The food probably often ended up in the hands of the homeless. Very different from New Years (late January or early Febr.), when the household's own ancestors and gods are worshipped. There's also Tomb-sweeping on the 5th of April, when offerings are left on the family graves. And firecrackers go with all celebrations! ***** Dorothy Day School of Library and Information Science Indiana University day@indiana.edu ***** "He also surfs who only sits and waits." From kathy at floyd.santarosa.edu Mon Nov 3 19:10:04 1997 From: kathy at floyd.santarosa.edu (Kathy Mcgreevy) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:54 2005 Subject: Social Security Numbers and User Authentication Message-ID: Our campus Computing Services Department is currently working on the user authentication process that will validate our users for remote access to IAC's SearchBank. They've proposed that people's social security numbers be used as their login ID to the College's online authentication process, i.e. a user will key in his/her SSN, a computer on campus will check it to verify that s/he is currently enrolled or employed here, and s/he'll be cleared for access to whatever we want them to have access to. At a recent workshop, three librarians mentioned that they thought it was *illegal* to use the social security number for user authentication. (Not to mention that few people will want to anyway.) Does anyone know anything about the legality of using SSNs for authentication? (Haven't found anything in the archives of this list.) Thanks for any info you can provide! .................................................................. Kathy McGreevy kathy@floyd.santarosa.edu Ref. Librarian, Electronic kathy@sonic.net Network Services http://www.santarosa.edu/~kathy Santa Rosa Junior College voice: 1-707-527-4547 Santa Rosa, CA 95401 fax: 1-707-527-4545 .................................................................. From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Mon Nov 3 19:07:19 1997 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:55 2005 Subject: Halloween reference In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971103165707.35bfe5da@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> Message-ID: Not sure what's going on here; but this sounds like the Mexican holiday which occurs on Nov 1 (or Oct 31??). They do a variety of interesting things including firecrackers, flowers, special breads and candies shaped like skeletons, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the Philippines celebrated it since the Spanish were there too; but Taiwan??? > My boss was stationed on Taiwan during his military days - he stated >that there was a Day of the Dead, probably New Year but I'm not sure, in >which food was brought to the cemetery for the ancestors and left outside >the tombs. Firecrackers were also involved, which is why I think it might >have been New Years. >>At 11:24 AM 11/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Clemens Ruthner wrote: >>> >>>> In customs like Beggar's Night (mentioned by Lee Jennings) the actors >>>> primarily represented the dead (gifts to the dead in ancient rituals), >>>> not the poor. Christendom is as it seems responsible for those changes. >>> >>>Wasn't this carried over from the Druid tradition of making sacrifices to >>>placate the dead? >>> >>> >>>Lewis >> >> >> That's debateable, and certainly such sacrifices weren't unique to >>the druids. The Roman perspective on history is what gives us that >>impression. I do think that leaving food out for the dead was probably a >>pre-Christian custom and giving it to the poor was probably a later >>adaptation of that custom. >> >> >> K.A. Price >> KPrice2@niu.edu >> z979592@wheat.farm.niu.edu >> >> >> >> > >*+============================* >| Stephen S. Hooley | Statesboro Ga >| Romulan Tech Assistant | Home of the >| Henderson Library | Statesboro >|"It's Only a Job Description"| Blues >| Georgia Southern University |www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/hooleyss >+=============================+ > Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? Linda Woods Hyman Pacific Bell Education First Dept. of Educational Technology San Diego State University San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired From kwilson at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au Mon Nov 3 21:45:35 1997 From: kwilson at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Katie Wilson) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:55 2005 Subject: Seminar on Intranets and Knowledge Management (fwd) Message-ID: Seminar on Intranets and Knowledge Management, sponsored and organised by The Information Science Section, Australian Library and Information Association URL: http://www.acms.com.au/intranets.html Date: 13 November 1997, 9.00 - 5pm Location: Macquarie University, Graduate School of Management, North Ryde, Sydney, Australia Program: 8.30 - 9.20 Registration and coffee 9.20 - 9.30 Welcome 9.30 - 10.15 * Introduction to knowledge management via Intranets & Extranets Ramin Marzbani Principal of www.consult 10.15 - 11.00 * Technical considerations: what you should know when setting up Intranets Pauline Van Winsen Technical Consultant, Uniq Professional Services Pty Ltd 11.00 - 11.30 Morning tea 11.30 - 1.00 * Case studies presented by experts with hand-on experience in setting up intranets for their organisations: Macquarie University's Intranet - Peggy Havukainen, Co-ordinator, Web Management, Macquarie University A Secondary School's Intranet Experience - Janette Emmerson Abbotsleigh School's AbbNet intranet service Establishing the Corporate Intranet: an IP's Perspective - Leanne Windsor County NatWest Research Library (Involved in the establishment of intranets at the ASX and County Natwest) 1.00 - 2.15 Lunch 2.15 - 3.00 * Using the Intranet to facilitate Knowledge Management within an organisation: the experience at BHP Research Libraries Sherrey Quinn, Library Services Coordinator, BHP Research 3.00 - 3.45 * Human Skills needed to effectively utilize knowledge within an organisation - the role of the information professional Marion Nicolson, Managing Director, Library Locums 3.45 - 4.15 Afternoon tea 4.15 - 4.45 * Panel Session - focussing on intranets and knowledge management. Bring your questions and challenge the experts! 4.45 Closing remarks Registration details: $110 ALIA members, $130 non-members. Bookings: Wael Foda, ACMS, tel: +61-2-9332-4622, fax +61-2-9332-4066, email: whfoda@acms.com.au Enquiries: Katie Wilson, Macquarie University Library tel: +61-2-9850-7509, email: kwilson@library.mq.edu.au From arqinfo at shore.net Wed Nov 5 08:29:08 1997 From: arqinfo at shore.net (Arlene R. Quaratiello) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <346074A4.643E@shore.net> For quite some time I've been looking for a resource that would explain clearly what the differences are among the various Web search engines, when to use which one, and how to do it most effectively. I've finally found my sought after resource and felt compelled to share it with those of you who like me have experienced frustration and confusion when trying to find what you want on the Web. It's the "Authoritative Guide to Web Search Engines" by Susan Maze, David Moxley, and Donna Smith (published by Neal-Schuman, ISBN 1-55570-305-4). The bulk of the book describes and evaluates seven specific search engines: AltaVista, Excite, Hotbot, Infoseek, Lycos, Open Text, and WebCrawler, and provides details on how to use each one. Directories like Yahoo and Magellan are also discussed in a separate section. Although the authors acknowledge that these tools undergo constant change, they affirm that these changes are largely cosmetic and so the book will remain valuable for some time to come. As a librarian who searches the Web daily (often hourly!), I feel much more competant when helping patrons now that I have read this book. And I refer back to it often. Neal-Schuman has a website (http://www.neal-schuman.com) where you can get further information or even order the book online (choose the "Virtual Catalog" link). Best Wishes, Bernadette Frances From libwebml at willco.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 09:15:43 1997 From: libwebml at willco.demon.co.uk (Free Pint) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Free Pint Message-ID: I am writing about a new free newsletter which I think may well be of interest to colleagues on this list. The email newsletter is called Free Pint and offers tips, tricks and articles on how to find reliable, good quality information on the Internet. Free Pint is published every fortnight, and the first issue is going to be sent this week on Thursday (6th November). If you would like to find out more, or perhaps request your free fortnightly copy to be sent to your email address, then please see our Web site: http://www.freepint.co.uk/ Alternatively, simply send an email containing just the word "subscribe" in the message box (nothing in the Subject) to: freepint@listservice.net I am certain you will find Free Pint to be very useful. If you do, then please tell your friends and colleagues so that the increased support will ensure that Free Pint remains first-rate and free. Thank you for your time. Kind regards, William Hann, Editor PS: Free Pint is published by the London based information consultancy Willco (http://www.willco.co.uk/) and the publishers will NEVER make the subscriber list known to any other company or organisation. From cdelvecc at mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Wed Nov 5 11:28:13 1997 From: cdelvecc at mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us (Camille Del Vecchio) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Electronic libraries, ultra flat screen "look" In-Reply-To: <199711022227.RAA26710@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Message-ID: The thing that appeals to me about such a product/device is that it could be set for any size print to accommodate differences in visual acuity. "My method is to take the utmost trouble to find the right thing to say, and then to say it with the utmost levity." G.B. Shaw Camille DelVecchio Penfield Public Library 1985 Baird Road Penfield, NY 14526 716 383-0500 From webguru at gtu.edu Wed Nov 5 11:00:10 1997 From: webguru at gtu.edu (Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Remember Dvorrak is the man who for years said that Apple should allow Mac clones and as shortly after they did so said it was a stupid move. Pundits often are strangely clueless. The problem is that some decision makers listen to them. At 1:21 PM -0800 11/4/97, Dorothy Day wrote: >In libraries, what is "too early?" Should Berkeley and UCLA have waited >for 1997 developments to roll out the slick web site that Dvorak seems >to have missed? If they had waited and watched (like a prudent business >trying to gauge profit from web enterprise), where would all of us be >now? Castigated by pundits like Dvorak for being hopelessly unprepared >for the information age, that's where. Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator webguru@gtu.edu (currently Gilles Poitras gpoitras@gtu.edu) Graduate Theological Union Library 2400 Ridge Road Berkeley, California, USA http://www.gtu.edu/library/ From LORI at camden.lib.nj.us Wed Nov 5 12:02:29 1997 From: LORI at camden.lib.nj.us (Lori A. Schwabenbauer, Camden County Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Downloading exe/zip files to floppy disks Message-ID: <971105120229.2c10@camden.lib.nj.us> (This message cross-posted. For DRA readers, this is non-DRA, but may be of interest to the many DRA sites running Netscape for the public.) We're running Fortres 101 on our Internet PCs -- and following up on a user request to allow downloading programs to floppies, we're wondering if there's some way to do that without endangering the hard drive. We've found in Netscape, we can use "Move Archive" in Winzip to move (zipped?) executables to the a: drive - in other words, we *can* allow people to download via Winzip to floppies, even with all the protections set in Fortres. Does anyone see a downside to this, as long as "Move Archive" doesn't work with the C: drive? (It does, but only in "My Documents," where MS Word defaults.) Thanks in advance. *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** Lori A. Schwabenbauer 609-772-1636 x3336 Supervisor, Automation Services fax 609-772-6105 Camden County Library lori@camden.lib.nj.us 203 Laurel Road http://www.cyberenet.net/~ccl/ Voorhees, NJ 08043 USA Opinions/ideas/gripes are mine. *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** From tethomps at lorenzo.syr.fi.it Wed Nov 5 05:10:40 1997 From: tethomps at lorenzo.syr.fi.it (Timothy E. Thompson) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: JavaScript drag & drop Message-ID: Thanks to all the web wizards who made suggestions about my recent frames question. But now I'm wondering whether anybody has or knows of a JavaScript drag & drop script that will let me do this: Frame A displays a bulleted list of hyperlinks to images. This list is generated on the fly by a CGI program (actually a WebSTAR plugin). Let's call the links Link1, Link2, etc. I would like to be able to drag and drop any link from Frame A to either of two display frames (B and C). So, for instance, I might want to compare Link2 with Link5, so I drag Link2 down to Display B, then drag Link5 to Display C. Then I might want to compare Link4 with Link5 so I drag Link4 down to B. Any suggestions? Also, I recently purchased SUN's Jumping JavaScript book but are there any JavaScript books out there that folks particularly recommend? ----------------------- Timothy E. Thompson, Librarian Syracuse University Florence Piazza Savonarola #15 50132 Florence ITALY tel. 011-3955-571-376 fax 011-3955-500-0531 tethomps@syr.fi.it From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Nov 5 12:32:50 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times Message-ID: <01bcea10$d74daea0$0853cc88@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu> Dvorak has had readers of various PC magazines that he knows what he is talking about for many years. People who should know better actually think he is an expert. He just likes to stir things up and then sit back and watch what happens. -----Original Message----- From: Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Dvorak in NY Times >Remember Dvorrak is the man who for years said that Apple should allow Mac >clones and as shortly after they did so said it was a stupid move. > >Pundits often are strangely clueless. The problem is that some decision >makers listen to them. > -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu IRC(irc.dal.net port 7000):#academiclibrarians (sysop/ops) ICQ:UIN#268569 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wilfred Drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971105/012cd8c1/WilfredDrew.vcf From eroche at sisna.com Wed Nov 5 12:55:13 1997 From: eroche at sisna.com (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Knowledge Management List Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971105105456.006dbcb4@mail.sisna.com> I remember someone asking what the address for the Knowledge Management -l was, but I had a hard drive crash and total re-partition since then, so I lost their name. Here is the main address, not the subscribe address. For the life of me, I can't find the subscribe address. But if you are nice, maybe the moderator (Nick Arnett of Verity) will tell you how... Sorry for the delay. X-Sender: snipped Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:03:01 -0800 Reply-To: Knowledge Management discussion Sender: Knowledge Management discussion From: snipped Subject: snipped Comments: To: Knowledge Management discussion To: km@MCCMEDIA.COM Elisabeth Roche eroche@sisna.com serendipity RULES! From helpdesk at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu Wed Nov 5 12:52:37 1997 From: helpdesk at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu (Help Desk (KCC)) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: CSA posting Message-ID: CENTRAL WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMPUTER SUPPORT ANALYST II (LIBRARY SYSTEMS) POSTED: OCTOBER 28, 1997 CLOSING DATE: DECEMBER 1, 1997 The current vacancy in the Library is a full-time, regular work week position expected to begin as soon as possible. The list established by this recruitment will be used to fill vacancies which occur in the next six months. Anyone who meets the minimum qualifications stated below may apply. SALARY: Range 46: $2522 per month with periodic increments to $3225. GENERAL DUTIES: Diagnose and resolve hardware problems, including troubleshooting, parts testing and replacement. Work directly with Electronic Maintenance Services and equipment vendors. Diagnose and resolve software failures, incompatibilities, and performance problems. Provide technical support for library staff in use of software. Design, develop, write and maintain database software using Microsoft Access and Visual Basic. Includes periodic upgrading, maintenance and documentation. Design, analyze, develop and write small applications for Windows and UNIX platforms for library public computers and library oriented tasks (includes periodic upgrading, maintenance, and technical documentation). Research, evaluate, and install new hardware and software products for the library. Regular monitoring and enhancement of both desktop operating systems and network software (encompasses all facets of systems-level software administration). Install Microsoft and NetWare software, patches and upgrades. Create, update, test, and debug batch files and command scripts for desktop and network operating systems functions. Consult with faculty and staff within the Library and Media Center. Analyze new hardware and software requirements using knowledge of the organization's needs, objectives, and procedures. Provide basic technical support for library staff, including informal training of individual users and formal group training. Maintain library equipment and software inventory and perform annual inventory. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Three years of experience in programming and/or computer support services of a technical nature, OR one year of experience as Computer Support Analyst I, OR equivalent education/experience. (Note: Incumbents in the Computer Support Analyst I class support and maintain the computer information systems and hardware of an organization/unit by performing a combination of computer support functions such as data processing, application maintenance, application software support, operating systems, and hardware support.) APPLICATION PROCESS: Applications are used to establish eligibility lists in accordance with the Department of Personnel: Higher Education Unit rules. Your general and supplemental application will be evaluated to identify the top group of most competitive candidates. Further evaluation of written materials, oral interview, practical tests, or skills tests may also be required, depending on the position. To be considered for this position, applicants must: 1. Meet the minimum qualifications. Meeting minimum qualifications does not guarantee a passing or competitive score on the examination. 2. Complete and submit a supplemental application and a general application form. All application materials must be obtained from, and returned to: By Mail: In Person: Central Washington University Central Washington University Human Resources Department Human Resources Department 400 East 8th Avenue Bouillon Hall Ellensburg, WA 98926-7425 Room 140 no later than 5:00 P.M., December 1, 1997. Applications will not be accepted after the closing date. Please keep a copy of your application materials. All application materials become the property of Central Washington University and cannot be returned. Telefacsimile materials may be received at (509) 963-1733. If application materials are FAXed, the original application materials must be in the Human Resources Department within five days after the closing date. If original applications materials have not been received within the five day period, your application will be considered incomplete and will not be evaluated further. If you have questions regarding the application process, call the Human Resources Department at (509) 963-1202. Central Washington University is an Affirmative Action, Equal Employment Opportunity, Title IX Institution. It has a strong commitment to increasing the diversity of its faculty, staff and student body. Central Washington University operates under an approved Affirmative Action Program and is especially interested in receiving applications from women, minorities, Vietnam-era veterans, disabled veterans, and persons of disability. When applicable, supplemental certification may be utilized in accordance with this program. Persons of disability may request accommodation during the application and/or interview process through the Affirmative Action Office. Voice (509) 963-2205; TDD (509) 963-2207 Changes and/or modifications to this bulletin will be posted on the bulletin board in the Dept. of Human Resources, Bouillon Hall, Room 140. EEO/AA/TITLE IX INSTITUTION _____________________________________________________________________________ J.D. (Jan) Isett Human Resource Assistant Central Washington University 400 East 8th Avenue Department of Human Resources Ellensburg, WA 98926-7425 Telephone (509) 963-1203 FAX (509) 963-1733 E-Mail ISETTJ@CWU.EDU _____________________________________________________________________________TIT From morganj at iupui.edu Wed Nov 5 13:57:15 1997 From: morganj at iupui.edu (Jim Morgan) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times In-Reply-To: <01bcea10$d74daea0$0853cc88@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: Dvorak is also a relative (nephew, I think) of the inventor of the Dvorak keyboard layout. The keyboard in test allowed ordinary typists to greatly exceed their normal speeds, but never managed to replace the entrenched QWERTY arrangement. Perhaps the library services he critiqued are like the QWERTY keyboard; very bad but so entrenched they can't be replaced. Jim Morgan morganj@iupui.edu On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BCE9E6.EE77A6A0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dvorak has had readers of various PC magazines that he knows what he is > talking about for many years. People who should know better actually think > he is an expert. He just likes to stir things up and then sit back and > watch what happens. > -----Original Message----- > From: Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator > To: Multiple recipients of list > Date: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 12:19 PM > Subject: Re: Dvorak in NY Times > > > >Remember Dvorrak is the man who for years said that Apple should allow Mac > >clones and as shortly after they did so said it was a stupid move. > > > >Pundits often are strangely clueless. The problem is that some decision > >makers listen to them. > > > > -- > Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) > SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 > E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu > IRC(irc.dal.net port 7000):#academiclibrarians (sysop/ops) > ICQ:UIN#268569 > Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 > Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ > Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ > LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ > -- > > ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BCE9E6.EE77A6A0 > Content-Type: text/x-vcard; > name="Wilfred Drew.vcf" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Wilfred Drew.vcf" > > BEGIN:VCARD > N:Drew;Wilfred=20 > FN:Wilfred Drew > ORG:SUNY Morrisville College Librarian > TITLE:Systems Librarian > TEL;WORK;VOICE:315-684-6055 > TEL;WORK;FAX:315-684-6115 > ADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;SUNY Morrisville College = > Library=3D0D=3D0AP.O. Box 902;Morrisville;New York;13=3D > 408-0902;United States of America > LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:SUNY Morrisville College = > Library=3D0D=3D0AP.O. Box 902=3D0D=3D0AMorrisville, New Yor=3D > k 13408-0902=3D0D=3D0AUnited States of America > EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:drewwe@morrisville.edu > END:VCARD > > ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BCE9E6.EE77A6A0-- > From dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu Wed Nov 5 14:33:18 1997 From: dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu (Sheryl Dwinell) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: <346074A4.643E@shore.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971105133318.007a68f0@vmsa.csd.mu.edu> It's the "Authoritative Guide >to Web Search Engines" by Susan Maze, David Moxley, and Donna Smith >(published by Neal-Schuman, ISBN 1-55570-305-4). I would like to second how useful this book is. The problem with anything written on paper about the Web is that it quickly becomes dated. While several of the search engines have changed, mostly cosmetically, since the book was written, the background information about how spiders work and how each engine operates was really helpful. Plus, the book is written in a way that folks who aren't totally Web-saavy can understand. As long as we're plugging resources, I would have to say the best source of information about search engines has got to be www.searchenginewatch.com. I point to it on our web site because I've find that it's more up-to-date and comprehensive than any other source on the Web. Besides, I don't have a lot of time to spend creating local pages with in depth evaluations and comparisons of search engines, so it's nice to find a resource like this. We have a couple pages of brief information about each engine, but I think that if someone really wants to delve into the intricacies of search engines and learn as much as they can, this site is definitely one of the best. Sheryl Dwinell * Cataloger/DBM Librarian/Webmaster Memorial Library * Marquette University P.O. Box 3141 * Milwaukee, WI 53201-3141 414-288-3406 * dwinells@vms.csd.mu.edu From postmaji at lewis.lewisu.edu Wed Nov 5 17:20:02 1997 From: postmaji at lewis.lewisu.edu (Jill Hamrin Postma) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Library/Literacy tests Message-ID: <3460F112.857@lewis.lewisu.edu> Thanks to everyone who responded to the Electronic Resources question. New question -- Can anyone steer me to program/programs (that are already created) that test library literacy at a college level? OR A test construction program that we could drop in our questions? (Not a survey construction program) Thanks, again! Jill -- Jill Hamrin Postma, MLIS Automation/Systems Librarian Lewis University Library Route 53, Romeoville, IL 60446 (815) 836-5664 FAX: (815) 838-9456 e-mail: postmaji@lewis.lewisu.edu From wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca Wed Nov 5 16:03:18 1997 From: wdaniels at gwmail.mtrl.toronto.on.ca (Wayne Daniels) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak in NY Times -Reply Message-ID: Curious coincidence. A bit of a tangent, really, but there's an article in the current ATLANTIC MONTHLY about typewriters (among much else), mentioning the attempt to reform QWERTY. The author remarks that not enough of those who had been to the trouble of learning the old system were prepared to master a new one. I sometimes wish we might nowadays put our collective foot down when some unlikely bit of "progress" is advocated. Every now and then. Best, Wayne Daniels Metro Toronto Reference Library >>> Jim Morgan 11/5/97, 02:03pm >>> Dvorak is also a relative (nephew, I think) of the inventor of the Dvorak keyboard layout. The keyboard in test allowed ordinary typists to greatly exceed their normal speeds, but never managed to replace the entrenched QWERTY arrangement. Perhaps the library services he critiqued are like the QWERTY keyboard; very bad but so entrenched they can't be replaced. Jim Morgan morganj@iupui.edu From narnett at verity.com Wed Nov 5 15:44:09 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:56 2005 Subject: Knowledge Management List Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971105204409.00c40890@verity.com> At 10:30 AM 11/5/97 -0800, Elisabeth Roche wrote: >I remember someone asking what the address for the Knowledge Management -l >was, but I had a hard drive crash and total re-partition since then, so I >lost their name. > >Here is the main address, not the subscribe address. For the life of me, I >can't find the subscribe address. But if you are nice, maybe the moderator >(Nick Arnett of Verity) will tell you how... Thanks... and yes, here it is: send "subscribe km (your name) in the body of a message to "listserv@mccmedia.com". This list is at arm's length from Verity; I own mccmedia.com (Multimedia Computing Corp.). Nick Arnett Product Manager, Advanced Technology Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu Thu Nov 6 11:46:53 1997 From: duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971106114653.007ade10@lafvax.lafayette.edu> I have to wonder how good any search engine guide can be, print or otherwise, considering many of the engines don't always work the way they claim. I see many explanations of "how engine xyz works," but little about whether the engine consistently fulfills its promise, i.e., is it *really* working the way it should? (Perhaps this topic is covered in the new book?) If a search mechanism consistently "misfires," then perhaps workarounds can be applied, but when it behaves erratically, then what? Two quick examples: A search on Infoseek using the query +date +rape [both terms required] produced 134 hits, while the query "date rape" [date rape as a phrase] produced 1375 hits. Unless I was asleep during IR101, there cannot be more occurrences of a phrase than of the component parts of that phrase. (Proximity is always more specific than a Boolean AND, which is what using a + sign before both terms should create.) Also, using a + in front of the double-quoted phrase produced fewer results than not using the +. (How can a single phrase query not already be required?) I'd be inclined to wonder if different indexes are searched depending on the query formation, but Infoseek doesn't always behave this way. (Only the one time I'm doing a demo without performing my searches ahead of time...) A search on HotBot using the query date rape produced the same set of 142,000+ hits regardless of whether I told it to look for "any of the words," "all the words," or "the exact phrase." When I added a third term (drugs) the engine performed as *expected*, but one has to wonder if it performed as it *should* have, and why it dropped the ball on the original queries. I've notified Infoseek and HotBot several times, but only get the automated thank you. I'm sure the new pub by Maze, Moxley, and Smith is useful, but let's hope the changes to search engines will be more than just "cosmetic." Getting a little weary of telling students, "always read the tips/options/help page...and then assume it won't always work that way." Bob Duncan ~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~ Robert E. Duncan Reference/Instruction Librarian David Bishop Skillman Library Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.lafayette.edu/faculty/duncanr/ From narnett at verity.com Thu Nov 6 09:44:22 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971106144422.012915a8@verity.com> At 09:05 AM 11/6/97 -0800, Bob Duncan wrote: >Two quick examples: >A search on Infoseek using the query > +date +rape [both terms required] >produced 134 hits, while the query > "date rape" [date rape as a phrase] >produced 1375 hits. Unless I was asleep during IR101, there cannot be more >occurrences of a phrase than of the component parts of that phrase. I don't think InfoSeek treats "date rape" as a simple phrase. I believe they're doing some sort of free text parsing in attempt to figure out the subject the user is seeking. I would strongly agree that no search engine, including ours, makes much of anything "simple" unless you know exactly what you want and how it differs from the other documents in the collection. Nick Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. -- Connecting People with Information Phone: 408-542-2164 Fax: 408-541-1600 Home office: 408-733-7613 narnett@verity.com http://www.verity.com From duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu Thu Nov 6 13:52:16 1997 From: duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971106135216.007ade10@lafvax.lafayette.edu> At 12:49 PM 11/6/97, narnett@verity.com wrote: > >I don't think InfoSeek treats "date rape" as a simple phrase. I believe >they're doing some sort of free text parsing in attempt to figure out the >subject the user is seeking. Could be, but behavior is not consistent. So, people tell me I can search for a phrase by enclosing it in quotes, then the same people tell their machine to ignore my phrase and figure out what I'm searching for? That makes a lot of sense. And why would a machine "attempt to figure out the subject the user is seeking" when no subject indexing exists? (There's more than a semantic difference between an engine determining whether a record is relevant to a search query, and determining the "subject" of that same record.) >I would strongly agree that no search engine, including ours, makes much of >anything "simple" unless you know exactly what you want and how it differs >from the other documents in the collection. Perhaps searching would be more efficient if engines *did not* try to make something of "simple" requests when I know exactly what I want. Bob Duncan ~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~ Robert E. Duncan Reference/Instruction Librarian David Bishop Skillman Library Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.lafayette.edu/faculty/duncanr/ From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Thu Nov 6 14:38:44 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web support pages for students In-Reply-To: <199711031600.QAA06493@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk> Message-ID: Jenny and all-- After reading some of the replies Jenny received about this request, I decided to send the list the suggestion I sent her. At UC Berkeley, the Teaching Library does course-integrated web instruction all the time. Most of the time, I use pieces of the online tutorial the outline of which begins at: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/FindInfo.html We print them, have the class retrieve them, or, sometimes I create a page especially for a class. An example of this is at: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Engl195.html I leave the pages like this, designed for students to use throughout the year as they work on their senior theses, up and allow use long after the class in which I explain how to use it and what's there. I will also add to the page if I find appropriate links during the year. It contains links which can provide students who need it all kinds of help from advanced to elementary. Joe Barker The Teaching Library, UC Berkeley On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, JENNY BOOKER wrote: > I'm about to write a web page, for students, giving some help/advice > on using the internet in their studies, which will be a general > support page that acdemics can link to if they are planning to use > the web in their teaching, which will cover things like what is the > internet, how to search it, tips of most effective use in your > studies, etc.. As yet I haven't found any other examples of this > type of page, but it would be useful to see some. So if anyone can > point me to examples of similar types of pages, I'd be grateful. > > TIA Jenny > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jenny Booker > WWW Project Coordinator > The Robinson Library > University of Newcastle upon Tyne > Newcastle upon Tyne > NE2 4HQ > Tel: 0191 2226688 > email: Jenny.Booker@newcastle.ac.uk > ---------------------------------------------------------- > From petworth at suba.com Thu Nov 6 15:10:35 1997 From: petworth at suba.com (Bill Thayer) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971106114653.007ade10@lafvax.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: > A search on HotBot using the query > date rape > produced the same set of 142,000+ hits regardless of whether I told it to > look for "any of the words," "all the words," or "the exact phrase." When I > added a third term (drugs) the engine performed as *expected* This illustrates the basic problem; each engine operates under its own semi-concealed rules; the rules have to be semi-concealed to prevent spammers from hijacking the engine. I actually *did* get an answer from Hotbot a few months ago, to a very similar query "Roman sites". The concealed rule is that one of the words is reserved: in my case "sites", in yours almost certainly "date" (I should hope!). Short of hacking into the concealed criteria and logic, no book on search engines will be terribly good; and if it is, it will be obsolete very soon! Bill Thayer RomanSites http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/RomanSites* From judy at hotwired.com Thu Nov 6 17:05:39 1997 From: judy at hotwired.com (j. y. c h e n) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" Message-ID: >>This illustrates the basic problem; each engine operates under its own >>semi-concealed rules; the rules have to be semi-concealed to prevent >>spammers from hijacking the engine. >> I actually *did* get an answer from Hotbot a few months ago, to a very >>similar query "Roman sites". The concealed rule is that one of the words is >>reserved: in my case "sites", in yours almost certainly "date" (I should >>hope!). > >"date" is indeed a stopword in HotBot. the way to test this when you get >squirrely hits is to type in the suspect term by itself. if it is a >stopword, it will yield no results. a subsequent search on "date rape" as >an exact phrase yielded the same number of hits as "rape" by itself >(stopwords are wildcarded in an exact phrase). if you take a look at the >breakdown of individual pagecounts, you'll notice that "date" occurs over >11 million times in our database, which definitely makes it a stopword, >since searching for it would significantly slow down retrieval time. > >while we do not have a printed list of stopwords (it is dynamic and changes >with each crawl), we do have in our FAQ an explanation of how we index and >retrieve pages: > >http://help.hotbot.com/faq/score.html > >hope this clears up some of the mystery! > >- judy ___________________________________ j. y. chen | hotbot tutor | WIRED d i g i t a l (v) 415. 276 .8464 | (f) 415. 276. 8499 http://www.hotbot.com The beatings will continue until morale improves! From dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu Thu Nov 6 17:56:48 1997 From: dwinells at vms.csd.mu.edu (Sheryl Dwinell) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971106165648.007b1160@vms.csd.mu.edu> How annoying. I tried this search in Excite and had a similar experience as you did with Hotbot. Evidently 'date' is a stopword there too. However, I tried this on Alta Vista. With +date +rape I got 22,070. With "date rape" I retrieved 7156 hits. I also got good results doing a search with "date rape" in Infoseek. The first 20 or so hits from each engine were relevant to my search, unlike hotbot or Excite. This is one reason we encourage folks to try their search in as many engines as they have patience to try. I was thinking that it would be nice if the major search engines would all allow you to execute another search on the results you get (a la Infoseek) in which it wouldn't matter if you used a stop word or not, particularly since you're executing your search on a much smaller subset than the entire index. Kind of like limiting a search in an online catalog. I find that search engines in their current incarnation can be incredibly frustrating to use. Knowing why you get "squirrely" results is all well and good, but it certainly hinders the user's attempt to find relevant information (e.g. date rape). Sheryl Dwinell * Cataloger/DBM Librarian/Webmaster Memorial Library * Marquette University P.O. Box 3141 * Milwaukee, WI 53201-3141 414-288-3406 * dwinells@vms.csd.mu.edu From jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu Thu Nov 6 18:43:55 1997 From: jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: from "j. y. c h e n" at Nov 6, 97 02:19:26 pm Message-ID: <199711062343.SAA17063@script.lib.indiana.edu> In other words, there is no way to search for "date rape"? Jian > > > >>This illustrates the basic problem; each engine operates under its own > >>semi-concealed rules; the rules have to be semi-concealed to prevent > >>spammers from hijacking the engine. > >> I actually *did* get an answer from Hotbot a few months ago, to a very > >>similar query "Roman sites". The concealed rule is that one of the words is > >>reserved: in my case "sites", in yours almost certainly "date" (I should > >>hope!). > > > >"date" is indeed a stopword in HotBot. the way to test this when you get > >squirrely hits is to type in the suspect term by itself. if it is a > >stopword, it will yield no results. a subsequent search on "date rape" as > >an exact phrase yielded the same number of hits as "rape" by itself > >(stopwords are wildcarded in an exact phrase). if you take a look at the > >breakdown of individual pagecounts, you'll notice that "date" occurs over > >11 million times in our database, which definitely makes it a stopword, > >since searching for it would significantly slow down retrieval time. > > > >while we do not have a printed list of stopwords (it is dynamic and changes > >with each crawl), we do have in our FAQ an explanation of how we index and > >retrieve pages: > > > >http://help.hotbot.com/faq/score.html > > > >hope this clears up some of the mystery! > > > >- judy > > > ___________________________________ > > j. y. chen | hotbot tutor | WIRED d i g i t a l > (v) 415. 276 .8464 | (f) 415. 276. 8499 > http://www.hotbot.com > > The beatings will continue until morale improves! > > > > From brucep at fuse.net Fri Nov 7 00:03:56 1997 From: brucep at fuse.net (bruce pomerantz) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: phrase needed Message-ID: <3462A13C.322F@fuse.net> Dear Web4Libers, Hope you take the adage, "The only dumb question is the one unasked" to heart as I ask: In boolean searching, what do you call the search strategy when you use one or more pairs in parentheses. An example: (Cats or Dogs) (Mice or Birds) Thanks for not laughing. Bruce Pomerantz On Sabbatical in Cincinnati From arhyno at server.uwindsor.ca Thu Nov 6 21:57:06 1997 From: arhyno at server.uwindsor.ca (Rhyno Art) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:57 2005 Subject: Print Restrictions - Thanks ! Message-ID: <199711070257.VAA28482@server.uwindsor.ca> Thanks to everyone for all the help with suggestions for locking out print options for certain course materials. Several people asked me why any instructor would want to do this and the answer seems to lie in the nature of the material made available, for example, solutions to problems where the faculty would prefer to inhibit the easy reproduction of the material from semester to semester. Using Acrobat Exchange seems to be the most popular solution and will be a natural if this material is put online in PDF format. art --- Art Rhyno, Systems Librarian Leddy Library, University of Windsor Internet: arhyno@uwindsor.ca Tel: (519) 253-4232, EXT. 3163 FAX: (519) 973-7076 WWW: From L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 7 17:20:06 1997 From: L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk (Leonard Will) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971107154908.0076e9f8@panix.com> Message-ID: In article <3.0.3.32.19971107154908.0076e9f8@panix.com>, "Karen G. Schneider" writes >Imho, the problem with controlled vocabularies--what makes them >idiosyncratic--is that they are not associated with an intelligent >mechanism that can reason, as the human brain does, "water closet = toilet" >or "smile is near grin," then pocket that information for further use. Surely the whole point of a controlled vocabulary, in the form of a structured thesaurus, is that an intelligent human can make and record these links, so that the machine doesn't have to. This is not a problem of controlled vocabularies, it is their strength. Rather than relying on machines to group terms on the basis of chance co-occurrences, we should be developing a good thesaurus (or its big brother, a semantic net). Search software should then either use this automatically to find other terms to include in a search or should allow a user to interact with it at search time, by asking questions such as: "There's not much in the database on 'water closets'; would you like me to search for 'toilets' too, or should I include all sorts of bathroom fittings?" One way in which this can be done has been shown by Eric H. Johnson and Pauline A. Cochrane in "A Hypertextual Interface for a Searcher's Thesaurus" available at: http://csdl.tamu.edu/DL95/papers/johncoch/johncoch.html Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- From sladner at umiami.ir.miami.edu Sat Nov 8 09:26:38 1997 From: sladner at umiami.ir.miami.edu (Sharyn J. Ladner) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting In-Reply-To: <199711072100.PAA21939@is.rice.edu> Message-ID: We use iChat here at FSU for group discussions in our distance education masters program. I am a TA for a course, "Design and Production of Network Multimedia," that is currently using iChat to conduct HTML tutorials among small groups and for project teams whose members are located throughout the state of Florida (Tallahassee, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville) to discuss the design and production of their web sites. I have found that chat becomes unwieldy if more than 10 persons are in the group and all try to participate. iChat is also being used in some of our other distance ed courses at FSU's School of Information Studies but I am not involved with those. Hope this helps, Sharyn *************************************************************************** Sharyn J. Ladner sladner@miami.edu University of Miami Richter Library sjl4008@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (on sabbatical 8/1/97 - 7/31/98 at FSU School of Information Studies) *************************************************************************** From eldjives at showme.missouri.edu Sat Nov 8 12:11:52 1997 From: eldjives at showme.missouri.edu (David J. Ives) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Global Search and Replace In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971107172049.007a0100@vms.csd.mu.edu> Message-ID: I wouldn't go anywhere re webpage generating and editing without my copy of HTML Power Tools (www.opposite.com). Besides a great global search and replace module, there are modules for site validation, syntax validation, meta-tags, etc. etc. I have no interest in this company other than being mighty happy I purchased their software. David Ives Head, Microcomputer Systems Group Ellis Library U. of Missouri From rhenning at fsc.follett.com Fri Nov 7 10:39:32 1997 From: rhenning at fsc.follett.com (Russell Henning) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: web search inconsistencies Message-ID: <9710088790.AA879017007@fsc.follett.com> NGT writes: "...The point is that as a professional searcher who has seen the accuracy of powerful engines including Dialog, BRS, STN and reliable CD ROM products, I'm wondering when we are going to be offered this type of accuracy with the web..." Did I miss the repeal of the "get-what-you-pay-for" law? :) When the cost to use Alta Vista, et al. approaches the cost of more powerful CD-ROM search tools, it would be reasonable to expect them to perform similarly. The value/price ratio is still very high. Russ rhenning@fsc.follett.com From walthowe at delphi.com Sat Nov 8 12:42:01 1997 From: walthowe at delphi.com (Walt Howe) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971108124201.00846290@pop.delphi.com> At 06:53 AM 11/8/1997 -0800, Sharyn Ladner wrote, in part: >We use iChat here at FSU for group discussions in our distance education >masters program. ... >I have found that chat becomes unwieldy if more than 10 persons are in the >group and all try to participate. ... I've used chat in various forms for years. One very common voluntary mechanism for large groups with a common interest that works with all types of software is to use a moderator to control the discussion. Ask people not to speak out of turn, but to simply type a question mark when they have a question and an exclamation point when they have a comment. The moderator, or if a very large group, an assistant keeps track of the order of questions and calls on them in turn. Comments are usually called on as they are raised. This will certainly work with iChat. With an assistant, the moderator and assistant may use private messages or a separate channel to keep track of the flow. One thing needed is an entry screen or prior message which gives the rules. The technique only breaks down when you have a chaotic, undisciplined audience that is changing all the time. Walt Navigating the Net Publishing on the Web Personal Home Page *** Delphi web memberships are now free *** From E-WIGG at EVANSTON.LIB.IL.US Sat Nov 8 13:28:04 1997 From: E-WIGG at EVANSTON.LIB.IL.US (Edward Wigg) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971108122802.00a22a40@ellington.evanston.lib.il.us> At 01:31 PM 11/7/97 -0800, "Karen G. Schneider" wrote: >Very interesting thread. As for the concept of controlled vocabulary, in >its defense, a vocabulary that could teach itself would be extremely >useful. Imho, the problem with controlled vocabularies--what makes them >idiosyncratic--is that they are not associated with an intelligent >mechanism that can reason, as the human brain does, "water closet = toilet" >or "smile is near grin," then pocket that information for further use. I >realize there are some tools that associate patterns and groups of words, >but I don't know of a tool that can make software independently build its >vocabulary without assistance from a human. Or perhaps there is, and I'm >just behind the ball curve... > There is some AI research that has tried to do this sort of thing -- the Cyc Project is probably the best example. It starts with a core of assertions about "common knowledge" in a large knowledge base and uses these to make inferences that can be applied in various ways. Take a look at: http://www.cyc.com/overview.html They give this as one of the examples on their applications page, which is quite close to what you are asking for: "A news agency may possess a library of thousands of news photos; a movie studio thousands of film clips; a software help desk thousands of text articles too unwieldy to index directly. When such libraries must be searched, a common solution is to attach to each item a short text caption describing its contents. Thus a news photo of a soldier holding a gun to a woman's head might be captioned "a soldier holding a gun to a woman's head", plus a few tags for time and place, and then could be retrieved by querying for "soldier" or "gun". "This solution, while certainly adequate, is far from ideal. It would be nice if the photo could also be retrieved by queries for "someone in danger", or "a frightened person", or "a man threatening a woman". Such an achievement, however, lies far beyond the abilities of even the most sophisticated of traditional text-searching tools, all of which are fundamentally based on simple string matching and synonyms. Most search tools lack the ability to handle natural-language queries, and even those that do have some NL capability lack the background of commonsense knowledge required to make a connection between having a gun to one's head and feeling frightened. "CYC? is not crippled by such a liability. CYC? knows that guns shoot bullets and are designed to kill people; that having a gun to one's head therefore threatens one's life; that those whose lives are threatened feel fear; and that the vast majority of soldiers are men. CYC? can therefore conclude that the image in question is, in all likelihood, a good match for each of the queries above." Edward -------------------------------------------------------------- Edward Wigg "Just another guy, you know?" Evanston Public Library e-wigg@evanston.lib.il.us Evanston, Illinois From feridun at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 13:38:47 1997 From: feridun at ix.netcom.com (feridun@ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Career Transitions Message-ID: <1997118133750741@> Hello! I'm writing an article on making career transitions between specialties and would be interested in hearing from anyone with tips or advice to offer. I've learned from my own experience and conversations with other information professionals that it can be difficult to move from one library setting to another (eg. public to corporate, school to academic), one library type to another (eg. sci/tech to news, business to medical), and one library function to another (eg. reference to technical services). If you have been successful in making a transition or have been in a hiring capacity, I'd appreciate any insights you'd like to share. Thanks! Karen Feridun From mcculley at best.com Sat Nov 8 12:51:14 1997 From: mcculley at best.com (P. Michael McCulley) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199711081847.KAA15135@proxy3.ba.best.com> On 8 Nov 97 at 6:40, Sharyn J. Ladner (Sharyn J. Ladner ) wrote about Re: Serious chat in a university > We use iChat here at FSU for group discussions in our distance education > masters program. > Sharyn > > *************************************************************************** > Sharyn J. Ladner sladner@miami.edu > University of Miami Richter Library sjl4008@garnet.acns.fsu.edu > (on sabbatical 8/1/97 - 7/31/98 at FSU School of Information Studies) > *************************************************************************** I think the use of interactive chat in distance learning is certainly a great use of the technology. And Walt's note on using moderator's to help facilitate the discussions is a good point on making sure a group has a good experience online. I'd like to mention PowWow in this context, and note the new production version 3.21 is out now. Their "communities" module is a fairly recent innovation, and yet seems to have developed quite a community :) of sorts --many of them 24/7 operations. It includes features to moderate, with some controls. The listing of communities is at . The "cruise" (touring the Web together) aspect of PowWow continue to be a fascinating teaching/sharing tool, in my view. Best regards, Michael McCulley, Webmaster Knight-Ridder Information mcculley@best.com *speaking only for himself* From danforth at tiac.net Sat Nov 8 14:17:12 1997 From: danforth at tiac.net (Isabel Danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Serious chat in a university setting In-Reply-To: <199711081847.KAA15135@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19971108141712.00851950@sunspot.tiac.net> As I have mentioned before, the real time environment used for our Librarians' Online Support Team workshops have many features that are being discussed here. Our virtual classrooms have separated 'seating areas' so there can be small group discussions. Teachers can control the queuing of questions, sessions can be logged, links to the web can be shown, and so on. You can see logs of the workshops at: http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/projects.html#kovacsmed Isabel At 11:03 AM 11/8/97 -0800, P. Michael McCulley wrote: >On 8 Nov 97 at 6:40, Sharyn J. Ladner (Sharyn J. Ladner >) wrote about Re: >Serious chat in a university > >> We use iChat here at FSU for group discussions in our distance education >> masters program. >> Sharyn >> >> *************************************************************************** >> Sharyn J. Ladner sladner@miami.edu >> University of Miami Richter Library sjl4008@garnet.acns.fsu.edu >> (on sabbatical 8/1/97 - 7/31/98 at FSU School of Information Studies) >> *************************************************************************** > >I think the use of interactive chat in distance learning is certainly >a great use of the technology. And Walt's note on using moderator's >to help facilitate the discussions is a good point on making sure a >group has a good experience online. > >I'd like to mention PowWow in this context, >and note the new production version 3.21 is out now. Their >"communities" module is a fairly recent innovation, and yet seems to >have developed quite a community :) of sorts --many of them 24/7 >operations. It includes features to moderate, with some controls. The >listing of communities is at . > >The "cruise" (touring the Web together) aspect of PowWow continue to >be a fascinating teaching/sharing tool, in my view. > >Best regards, > >Michael McCulley, Webmaster >Knight-Ridder Information >mcculley@best.com >*speaking only for himself* > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Sat Nov 8 15:33:39 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What *I'm* seeing as a central issue here is not just that Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Sat Nov 8 16:32:15 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:46:59 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry about that too short earlier message. What *I'm* seeing in this thread as a central issue is not so much that we need better controlled-vocabulary search tools for the web (which may be true), nor that we as information professionals need to take a "you get what you pay for" mentality towards those tools which are available and just be glad they're not charging us for it. What seems to be a real need is more information about how the tools out that are available work. Yes, it's true that there are a lot of "un-savvy" searchers out there, but there are a lot of us out there who are "search-savvy" (not just librarians) and an added group who have some understanding of basic set logic (which a lot of us learned back in elementary school). The expectation is that when one submits a search (a direct order phrase, for example) that should logically produce a smaller set than another set (e.g., a string of words that can appear anywhere), one logically expects fewer hits. It doesn't matter that one is not going to look at all 24,000+ records found: one did the more restrictive search presumably to avoid 24,000+ hits in the first place. What matters is taht one retrieved an illogical search result. If the more restrictive search retrieves 24 times the results of a more broad search, the savvy searcher will logically conclude that either s/he did something wrong or that the engine has a bug, but not that it's a "feature". Controlled-vocab, thorough indexing, and advanced search techniques aren't the only added value we get from those databases and CDs we pay for, and they don't in themselves preclude illogical behavior on their parts. Dialog, SPIRS, and theothers don't always work as they should either. We do get two resources to help us resolve any problems encountered, though: documentation and tech support. Now I wouldn't expect the free search engine providers to provide technical support even at the level that the commercial vendors do (which can often leave a bit to be desired anyway), but they *can* offer a bit more information about how things work (i.e., documentation). What we have now is akin to those quick ref cards we leave out by the search stations. Fine when one does a simple search, but they generally fall short when more advanced techniques are required. There is definitely room for improvement here. If an engine is going to provide advanced tools, it makes sense to assume a slightly more advanced user. The manuals that come with my high-end page layout software assume that I know the basics about my computer and page layout and rightfully offers very little assistance with either (and it's not a function of price, as most shareware/freeware I download assumes even more knowledge on my part). Why not here? Okay, so full disclosure leaves the tool open to spammers, and the stop list is fluid, changing regularly to accomodate new information. Fine. Don't tells us the algorithm in use, but at least tell us that a dynamic stop list exists. Does that need to show up on the first page for every searcher doing the most simple search? Perhaps not, but if one does a search on "date rape" and retrieves a Sagan of hits (billions and billions), why not tell the user at this point, "Hey, you got a lot of hits here because you used a stop word that was ignored. Wanna try again using a similar term, or plow through the list you retrieved?" That way the user is once agin in control and can either start browsing or thinking, "Maybe I'll try 'acquaintance rape' as it's sometimes called." In short, why not give the searcher some information about what's going on, especially if s/he's using the more advanced capabilities offered? High-end features require high-end feedback. Free or not, the more we know about the tools we're using, the better we can be at evaluating their usefulness and making the right decisions at the right time. Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From even.flood at ub.ntnu.no Tue Nov 11 02:33:37 1997 From: even.flood at ub.ntnu.no (Even Flood) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results References: <199711110519.WAA03643@calafia.com> Message-ID: <34680A51.7B2F@ub.ntnu.no> Danny Sullivan wrote: > > > A solution can be to use one of AltaVista's mirror sites. They have > exactly the same information, maybe only a few days old. But they > have far less traffic, so your searches will get farther than they > might during a busy US period. > Actually, that is not a good idea, judging by my results yesterday. I did several searches on AltaVista at www.altavista.telia.com in Sweden and AltaVista in the US. The result were a) consistent in that I got the same numbers of hits every time I repeated a search at the same site, b) consistent in that I got roughly three times as many hits in the US version as in the European "mirror" on all the search terms I used. It seem AltaVista are having problems? -- Even Flood, Senior Academic Librarian Norwegian DIANE Center, University Library of Trondheim N 7034 Trondheim, Norway. Phone: +47 73 59 51 62, Fax +47 73 59 60 97 even.flood@ub.ntnu.no <*> "Come, and take choice of all my library, and so beguile thy sorrow." (Shakespeare) From Corrado.Pettenati at cern.ch Tue Nov 11 03:41:48 1997 From: Corrado.Pettenati at cern.ch (Corrado Pettenati) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Vacancies at CERN, Geneva Message-ID: Apologies for cross-posting VACANCIES FOR 2 LIBRARIANS AT CERN CERN is the European Laboratory for Particle Physics employing 3000 members of personnel from 19 Member States: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and United Kingdom. Another 5000 scientists and asociates use the Laboratory to perform their experiments. The CERN Library which serves this community is relatively small but offers a wide variety of services with orientation towards computerisation for maximum efficiency; see http://wwwas.cern.ch/library/. Two vacancies have been opened for librarians as part of CERN's First Employment Programme which targets qualified candidates having no or only little professional experience (less than three years). Employment conditions as well as on-the-job training and other training, as needed, are adapted to this programme. Candidates having three or four years' experience may also apply to be considered outside the First Employment Programme. Qualification Requirements: a university degree and a professional qualification in librarianship; experience of the range of library work in a modern library environment, including computerised working methods; fluency in English or French and good knowledge of the other language is necessary. The Assignment will be to participate as a team member in a variety of library work for a demanding international user community. This will include information provision, interlibrary loans and document delivery, user support, library technical tasks as acquisitions, cataloguing, classification and serial control. CERN offers competitive net salaries as well as comprehensive occupational pension and health insurance benefits. More details on these two openings are available at the Web pages: http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/PE/HRS/Recruitment/vn/as9764fe.htm and http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/PE/HRS/Recruitment/vn/as9765fe.htm The application form can be dowloaded from the Web page: http://www.cern.ch/CERN/AdminMan/English/Personnel/218recruit.html General information about CERN and recuitement procedures are available at http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/PE/HRS/Recruitment/ For further information you are invited to call or write to: Frank CLIFF Tel: (+41).22.767.36.53 Personnel Co-ordinator Fax: (+41).22.782.83.07 PE Division E-mail frank.cliff@cern.ch CH-1211 GENEVA 23 From R.Goodman at lboro.ac.uk Tue Nov 11 07:00:02 1997 From: R.Goodman at lboro.ac.uk (Richard Goodman) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Project ACORN : Web Page Update Message-ID: Apologies for cross-posting. Following demand from visitors to the Project ACORN web site, Project ACORN have now produced a demonstration version of the ACORN electronic short loan (reserve) collection, available to all visitors to our web site. This demonstration does not use any copyrighted materials and is based on fictitious article, journal and publisher information for demonstration purposes. Simply follow the links from the "ACORN Service" button on the ACORN home page, or from the "What's New ?" page. Other additions to the web site include :- Latest Project Progress Report - [Added 6/11/97] What you say about Project ACORN ! - [Added 4/11/97] Student Training Sessions - Semester 1 1997/8 - [Added 23/10/97] The Project ACORN web site address is :- http://acorn.lboro.ac.uk/ Regards, Rich ***************************************************************************** Richard Goodman | Project ACORN Webmaster http://acorn.lboro.ac.uk/ Project Acorn |---------------------------------------------------- Loughborough University | UKSG Webmaster http://uksg.lboro.ac.uk/ ***************************************************************************** From dream at saturn.vcu.edu Tue Nov 11 09:02:56 1997 From: dream at saturn.vcu.edu (Dan Ream) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Louis-- Thanks for the theory. Sometimes a "my theory is..." explanation is as satisfying--or more so--than knowing the answer ;-) --Dan Ream On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Louis Rosenfeld wrote: > On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Dan Ream wrote: > > > > > I too have had Linda's experience with repeated searches returning > > different results over a brief period of time. > > > > Does anyone here have a good explanation of this that you use with your > > students/patrons/users when helping them with searches? > > > > Humorous replies welcome, as well as serious! > > > > --Dan Ream > > Head, Instruction & Outreach Services > > Virginia Commonwealth University Library > > Richmond, Virginia, USA > > The obvious reason is demo-itis. This sort of problem only happens in > public situations, and is not reproducible in the privacy of one's own > cubicle. > > Seriously, a (very wild) guess is that there are a number of servers that > serve Alta Vista's database behind the scenes, and for various reasons > these databases aren't fully synched. Perhaps you and your student were > using different servers without realizing it. Not sure that this > explanation is even technically possible, but it's worth a guess. > > Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com > Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com > 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 > Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 > > Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) > O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ > > From KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU Tue Nov 11 09:17:36 1997 From: KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply Message-ID: This is similar to an experience I had with Alta Vista. I was trying to see who was pointing to us using the search string 'link:http://www.swmed.edu/home_pages/library/*.*' (this is a trick I learned recently from Ray R. Larson's Bibliometric analysis of the World Wide Web). The first results page said I had 322 hits. I clicked on the 'next' button for the second 10 results. That page said I had 1512 hits! I click on the 'next' button for results 21-30, but that page said I only had 29 hits! I could go no further, as it display 21-29 only. I tried this series twice with the exact same results. I emailed the Webmaster at AltaVista, but have yet to receive a response. Does anybody have any clues? Karen R. Harker Information Resource Center Web Developer UT Southwestern Medical Library Dallas, TX http://www.swmed.edu/home_pages/library/ >>> Mary-Ellen Mort 11/10/97 12:29am >>> On Sun, 9 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > I recently did a search on AltaVista and came up with no *no* results; I > was surprised since I've done the search before on AltaVista and came up > with at least five items. I hit the search button again and got the five; > this made me curious so I hit the button again: this time nine items were > retrieved. I wasn't going to bring this up. But Linda's experience gives me courage. Last week I taught a class and a student and I entered EXACTLY the same altavista search and got different results (I got something like 2,000 postings and she got something like 600) ...I checked carefully that the searches WERE identical--they were--and then I just had to shrug my shoulders and move on with the class. How often do we get a chance to do simultaneous duplicate searches? I have also had experiences with excite where, as I work through a long set of results, the number of matching sites changes wildly from page to page. As someone pointed out earlier, you get what you pay for. I guess we can ask for our money back. Mary-Ellen Mort JobSmart Project Director http://jobsmart.org From deb at consultnw.com Tue Nov 11 09:38:24 1997 From: deb at consultnw.com (Deb Wiley) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Book reviewers needed Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971111093824.00698594@pop.erols.com> Hello, I'm the new editor of the Hardcopy book review column for ONLINE and DATABASE magazines. I am seeking creative, deadline-oriented librarians or information professionals to write reviews on an occasional basis. Please contact me with details of your background and areas of interest. Thanks. Deb Wiley deb@consultnw.com Deborah Lynne Wiley Next Wave Consulting, Inc. ~~ helping publishers profit in a digital age ~~ P.O. Box 8 Deale, MD 20751 phone:301-261-9012 *** fax 410-867-8298 mailto:deb@consultnw.com http://consultnw.com From jfrasier at jefferson.lib.co.us Tue Nov 11 11:16:14 1997 From: jfrasier at jefferson.lib.co.us (Jane Frasier) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Filters and impact on Computer Staff Message-ID: <346884C6.652B@jefferson.lib.co.us> Does anyone know of any report that deals with the amount of time/effort that is needed to install, configure, and maintain filtering software on PCs in a library? Does the addition of filtering software affect the response time of a search? What other problems can occur with adding filtering software to a PC? (installation problems, uninstall problems, conflicts with other software. etc) I have read the report from The Internet Filter Assessment Project. Thanks. Jane Frasier Microcomputer Manager From Barbara_G_SMITH at umail.umd.edu Tue Nov 11 11:41:00 1997 From: Barbara_G_SMITH at umail.umd.edu (bs91) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: LCD projector recommendations? Message-ID: <199711111642.LAA24138@umailsrv0.umd.edu> I'm shopping for LCD projectors and would like advice from libraries that have done this already. The budget will allow $4,000 to 4,500, and we will buy three: two will travel among the branches for Web training and introductory sessions in public meeting rooms, and the third will stay at a new Web Training Center at one branch. What did you buy, how well is it working, and how much did it cost? Any advice for the novice buyer? What about advice for the novice user? Will be glad to share the results. From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Tue Nov 11 11:59:07 1997 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results Message-ID: >> At a guess I would say that AltaVista has set a time limit on >> searches. When the time limit expires the hits retrieved thus far >> are returned. If you hit search in a quiet period then more >> results are returned as the search will execute quicker. > >Yes, this is exactly correct. > I'll second this yes ... When doing "needle in the haystack" searches rather than broad searches with many hits, search engines seem to be quite consistent - For the past several months, I've done systematic searching every 2-4 months for some of our own pages, using boolean searching to find odd/unique combinations of words that only occur on a few pages on the web. I've found search engines to be consistent, even over a period of months. (I've been doing Alta Vista and Excite the longest, but have done others as they've gained boolean search capability, and have found all to be consistent). Our own little search engine guide page is at - http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/search2.html * * * * * * * * * Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) Hardin Meta Directory of Internet Health Sources http://www.arcade.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/md.html Featured in Internet Medicine (Lippincott-Raven), June 1997 From ras at nimbus.anzio.com Tue Nov 11 11:54:05 1997 From: ras at nimbus.anzio.com (Robert Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: LCD projector recommendations? In-Reply-To: <199711111642.LAA24138@umailsrv0.umd.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, bs91 wrote: > I'm shopping for LCD projectors and would like advice from libraries that > have done this already. The budget will allow $4,000 to 4,500, and we will > buy three: two will travel among the branches for Web training and > introductory sessions in public meeting rooms, and the third will stay at a > new Web Training Center at one branch. > > What did you buy, how well is it working, and how much did it cost? Any > advice for the novice buyer? What about advice for the novice user? > > Will be glad to share the results. I'm not a librarian, and it's been a while since I bought one, but I've followed them for a while and have some input. Is your budget of $4500 for TOTAL or EACH? If it's for total, good luck! Points to consider: 1. Check the spec for lumens - a measure of light intensity. Brightness is critical. 2, The quality of the projection screen can have a big effect on readability relative to room brightness. It can also affect viewing angle - how far off-center the viewer can be. 3. Will you ever want to show video (such as from a VCR)? Make sure it has an input for that. 4. Does it have speakers? How powerful? 5. What is its pixel resolution? 6. How easy is it to carry and set up? 7. For permanently-mounted installation, you may want a ceiling mount (which requires an inversion of the picture). Hope this helps. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From courtois at aztec.lib.utk.edu Tue Nov 11 12:49:12 1997 From: courtois at aztec.lib.utk.edu (Martin Courtois) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Karen Harker wrote: > I emailed the Webmaster at AltaVista, but have yet to receive a > response. Does anybody have any clues? > I think Karen is right on target in terms of what we need to do to get answers to our questions re: search engine inconsistencies. We can only go so far in our analysis from a user's perspective, but we can push producers for complete explanations to problems we encounter. I'm sure we all remember the case not too long ago where the webmaster from American Federation of Scientists discovered that only about 10% of his site's 6000 pages were indexed in Alta Vista. I imagine he had to nip pretty hard at AltaVista's heels to get an explanation for this. But, as a result of his perseverance, we have a new age of "honesty" among search engine producers; everybody pretty much admits that they don't index the entire the Web, but provide only a sampling, particularly from larger sites. Judy Chen from HotBot seems to be the only rep from a major search engine who participates in Web4Lib, and her answers to questions raised in this thread have been the real gems of the discussion. Maybe we need to invite other search engine producers to participate in this list? ********************************************************* Martin Courtois Biological Sciences Reference Librarian Hodges Library University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 37996-1000 423-974-8693 mcourtois@utk.edu ********************************************************* From duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu Tue Nov 11 13:28:45 1997 From: duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple"--HotBot/Infoseek reply Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971111132845.007b7900@lafvax.lafayette.edu> My parents still don't get this whole librarian thing, but once I inform them I started a thread (which someone actually wanted stifled!!!) I'm sure they'll be proud... I received responses from Infoseek and HotBot regarding search performance with the date rape queries. As suggested by many on the list, "date" is a stop word in HotBot, and is therefore discarded. However, pages containing "date" still make their way to the top of the results list because "If a stopword is included in an 'exact phrase' search, it [the engine] will wildcard that word finding the correct sequence of words entered but allowing any word to replace the stopword." HotBot says: >Stopwords are excluded from searches to avoid slowing down the system and >returning irrelevant matches. There is no static list of stopwords; the >list is constantly updated as the frequency of words appearing in webpages >changes with every crawl HotBot does. In the meantime, the HotBot >engineering team is researching ways to allow stopwords to be included in >queries without compromising our system security. Remember, the more >precise you are in specifying your search term, the more relevant your set >of results will be. IMHO the task of being "more precise" becomes difficult when terms conveying content become stop words. Equating "of" and "the" with terms like "web," "HTML," "cgi," "text," and "computer" (other terms on HotBot's dynamic list of stop words) seems unsound. I'm still not sure exactly what's going on at Infoseek; I'm guessing a similar "wildcarding" was at work with the phrase query. Their response to my question was scary: >You need to run the query this way: > > date +rape > > the + before date is not needed. Uh...according to your help page, and the way the engine usually performs, if I want to *require* the word it is! (And the search results are different according to which words the + is applied.) When the "support" folks don't get it (my question to them; what the + should imply; the difference between a term being required or optional; how their engine operates; etc.), then we're in deep doo-doo. I agree with various list folk that we can't be too picky considering the resources in question are effectively free. I agree that Web search engines could use some improvement. I understand that the Web is different than a DIALOG database. (But I would also argue that when we pay for a DIALOG search, more of our money's going towards the quality of info available, not a more capable search program.) My main concern is that the engines, for the benefit of Web users (savvy and not-so), could be a tad more up front with how results are arrived at without revealing state secrets. As Byron Mayes implied in his post on the subject, if an engine is "intelligent" enough to ignore a term, isn't it capable of printing a few lines of text which explain that the term occurs too frequently and was discarded? (AltaVista does it, but I notice they've placed this little piece of enlightenment at the *bottom* of the results page. (Didn't it used to be up top?)) More importantly, if a tips/options/help page is provided, how much would it take to add a few words about exceptions to the rule? Referring a user to a "why searches fail" page is of no use when the search results page carries no indication that the results are indeed flawed. HotBot's presentation of search results for the "exact phrase" 'date rape' shows: "Returned: 141448 matches. Breakdown: date: 11193928, rape: 144093 " What indication is there to the user that his or her "exact phrase" query was ignored? In fact, when I see those numbers, my natural assumption is that *both* terms *were* used to achieve the final result; why else are they letting me know? A little explanation could go a long way. Bob Duncan ~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~ Robert E. Duncan Reference/Instruction Librarian David Bishop Skillman Library Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.lafayette.edu/faculty/duncanr/ From dspitz at enteract.com Tue Nov 11 20:39:55 1997 From: dspitz at enteract.com (Don Spitzbart) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971111203955.2bbf4f42@pop.enteract.com> ________________________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE!!! If this information request is a bit off subject for this newsgroup, accept my sincere apology. I am a relative "newbie" to posting rather than just reading messages, and I have posted to several newsgroups in hope of getting some answers I desperately need. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Could someone please provide me a source (or sources), search engine, address, etc., from which I can get information on larger corporations (Fortune1000, etc.). Specifically, I am looking for email addresses/telephone/web site URLs, names or resources for higher level personnel, etc. Thanks in advance for your help. I think that this type of information posted to the list would be helpful to many individuals, so if relevant, respond to the list as a whole. If you feel that this info may be less relevant to the list as a whole, your email to me directly would be more than appreciated. FYI, our company is a fairly sizable VAR/reseller, with listings of 1000's of suppliers, vendors, etc. available so we would would be more than happy to help out anyone we could. My gracious thanks, Don Spitzbart CIO From sdk at mindspring.com Tue Nov 11 22:47:05 1997 From: sdk at mindspring.com (Shirl Kennedy) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info Message-ID: <01bcef1d$a4f2d900$813056d1@default> Annual reports on the Web http://www.zpub.com/sf/arl/ http://www.tanagraphics.com/Tanagraphics/annuals.html Business Wire http://www.businesswire.com/ NetPartners Company Site Locator http://www.netpart.com/company/search.html Corporate Information links (U.S. and international) http://www.corporateinformation.com/ EDGAR Online (SEC data) http://www.edgar-online.com http://www.sec.gov/edgarhp.htm http://edgar.whowhere.com Business URLs http://home.microsoft.com/exploring/finditfast/bus/bus_02.htm Hoover's Online http://www.hoovers.com/ PR News Wire (press releases) http://www.prnewswire.com/ Fortune 500 http://www.pathfinder.com/@@jtk@lwYAlTR@@U*s/fortune/fortune500/ Thomas Register http://www.thomasregister.com Internet Business Library -- Companies and Organizations http://www.bschool.ukans.edu/intbuslib/company.htm Inc. 500 (fastest growing companies) -----Original Message----- From: Don Spitzbart To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 9:50 PM Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info >___________________________________________________________________________ _____________ >PLEASE!!! If this information request is a bit off subject for this newsgroup, accept my sincere apology. I am a relative "newbie" to posting rather than just reading messages, and I have posted to several newsgroups in hope of getting some answers I desperately need. >___________________________________________________________________________ _____________ > >Could someone please provide me a source (or sources), search engine, address, etc., from which I can get information on larger corporations (Fortune1000, etc.). Specifically, I am looking for email addresses/telephone/web site URLs, names or resources for higher level personnel, etc. > >Thanks in advance for your help. I think that this type of information posted to the list would be helpful to many individuals, so if relevant, respond to the list as a whole. > >If you feel that this info may be less relevant to the list as a whole, your email to me directly would be more than appreciated. > >FYI, our company is a fairly sizable VAR/reseller, with listings of 1000's of suppliers, vendors, etc. available so we would would be more than happy to help out anyone we could. > >My gracious thanks, > >Don Spitzbart >CIO > > From sdk at mindspring.com Tue Nov 11 23:34:27 1997 From: sdk at mindspring.com (Shirl Kennedy) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:00 2005 Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info Message-ID: <01bcef24$42da5fc0$c71879a8@default> Ooops. Left out the URL for the Inc. 500: http://www.inc.com/500/about.html Sorry. SDK -----Original Message----- From: Shirl Kennedy To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info >Annual reports on the Web >http://www.zpub.com/sf/arl/ >http://www.tanagraphics.com/Tanagraphics/annuals.html >Business Wire >http://www.businesswire.com/ >NetPartners Company Site Locator >http://www.netpart.com/company/search.html >Corporate Information links (U.S. and international) >http://www.corporateinformation.com/ >EDGAR Online (SEC data) >http://www.edgar-online.com >http://www.sec.gov/edgarhp.htm >http://edgar.whowhere.com >Business URLs >http://home.microsoft.com/exploring/finditfast/bus/bus_02.htm >Hoover's Online >http://www.hoovers.com/ >PR News Wire (press releases) >http://www.prnewswire.com/ >Fortune 500 >http://www.pathfinder.com/@@jtk@lwYAlTR@@U*s/fortune/fortune500/ >Thomas Register >http://www.thomasregister.com >Internet Business Library -- Companies and Organizations >http://www.bschool.ukans.edu/intbuslib/company.htm >Inc. 500 (fastest growing companies) > From gprice at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Wed Nov 12 04:30:21 1997 From: gprice at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Gary Price) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971111203955.2bbf4f42@pop.enteract.com> Message-ID: don: i am in the process of compiling a page of links to business related lists/rankings available on the www. Materials range from the Fortune/Forbes lists to numerous city/state/regional business rankings. Many of these sources contain the info you are in search of. The url is: http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~gprice/listof.htm cheers, gary Gary Price, MLIS George Washington University Washington, D.C. and Ashburn, VA gprice@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu 703-729-8235 703-729-8237 (fax) -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Don Spitzbart wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 19:16:42 -0800 > From: Don Spitzbart > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Sources/Sites for Public Corp Info > > ________________________________________________________________________________________ > PLEASE!!! If this information request is a bit off subject for this newsgroup, accept my sincere apology. I am a relative "newbie" to posting rather than just reading messages, and I have posted to several newsgroups in hope of getting some answers I desperately need. > ________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Could someone please provide me a source (or sources), search engine, address, etc., from which I can get information on larger corporations (Fortune1000, etc.). Specifically, I am looking for email addresses/telephone/web site URLs, names or resources for higher level personnel, etc. > > Thanks in advance for your help. I think that this type of information posted to the list would be helpful to many individuals, so if relevant, respond to the list as a whole. > > If you feel that this info may be less relevant to the list as a whole, your email to me directly would be more than appreciated. > > FYI, our company is a fairly sizable VAR/reseller, with listings of 1000's of suppliers, vendors, etc. available so we would would be more than happy to help out anyone we could. > > My gracious thanks, > > Don Spitzbart > CIO > > From ulhrl at dewey.newcastle.edu.au Wed Nov 12 04:52:40 1997 From: ulhrl at dewey.newcastle.edu.au (Helen R Lloyd) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: <34680A51.7B2F@ub.ntnu.no> Message-ID: > Actually, that is not a good idea, judging by my results > yesterday. I did several searches on AltaVista at > www.altavista.telia.com > in Sweden and AltaVista in the US. The result were > a) consistent in that I got the same numbers of hits > every time I repeated a search at the same site, > b) consistent in that I got roughly three times as many hits in > the US version as in the European "mirror" on all the search terms I > used. > This is something I have also noticed when using the Australian mirror of AltaVista. I did the "date rape" search and got over 7000 hits on the U.S. site and "about 2000" on the Australian mirror. The search page and options are also different. The Aussie mirror doesn't have the Refine button, or the option to search in different languages. I thought a mirror site was supposed to be an exact copy. I can understand that at any given time the mirror sites won't be as up-to-date as the original site, but there should not be that much difference. Helen Lloyd Helen Lloyd | email: ulhrl@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Faculty Librarian (Art & Design) | and Library Web Manager | Huxley Library | Ph (intl+61+2) 49216455 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+2) 49216904 From stew at library.umass.edu Wed Nov 12 08:29:36 1997 From: stew at library.umass.edu (Barbara Stewart) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Really though, what possible difference can it make to a user if there are 30,000 or 50,000 hits? I defy *anyone* to show me a student who tracked down even 2,000 hits, let alone these larger numbers. What matters here is relevancy, not numerical sameness.... ************************************************** Barbara Stewart, Latin American Cataloger Univ. of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA (413)545-2728 stew@library.umass.edu From mthughes at libris.libs.uga.edu Wed Nov 12 09:01:19 1997 From: mthughes at libris.libs.uga.edu (Marty Tanner Hughes) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals Message-ID: <478F3F368ED@libris.libs.uga.edu> Our library is acquiring an increasing number of subscriptions to Web-based journals and other resources. We're looking for a friendly way to present these journals to our clientele. When the numbers were small, we were able to offer a link from our web site to each journal, but with Project Muse and JSTOR subscriptions and various publishers offering all of their titles online, the numbers seem to demand a different approach. While we catalog our electronic journals, we don't have a web-based online catalog (yet), so we're looking for a way to get users to the resources from our web site. In addition to subscriptions, we also want to point our users toward "free" resources on the Web. Do we mix these in with our "on-campus only" subscriptions? Does anyone have good solutions? Do you list individual journal titles or just link to the projects? Would a database help us maintain a list of journals? Is an alphabetical list and/or one arranged by subject useful to users of your web site? Do you have searching facilities to help users find particular journals? What sort of workflow do you use in subscribing to electronic resources and making them accessible? I'd love to hear about successful methods and to see examples of what others are doing. Thank you for your help. Marty Tanner Hughes Asst. Systems Librarian University of Georgia Libraries Athens, GA 30602 From manson at mvlc.lib.ma.us Wed Nov 12 09:42:04 1997 From: manson at mvlc.lib.ma.us (Bill Manson MVLC (978) 475-7632) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: More on Search Engines Message-ID: Metacrawler has a website (Metaspy) http://search4.metacrawler.com/perl/metaspy? that is aimed at giving a 'snapshot' of searches on the web. I understand that some use this site in teaching/demo situations to give some idea of the diversity of searches that are actually performed. I believe that the snapshot quality is mediated, or at least second hand. If one looks at Metaspy off and on over the course of a day (and especially if one uses the refresh key rather than waiting for the auto refresh to kick in), a pattern of searches will emerge. Some unusual searches -- misspellings repeated, etc. -- will occur with a very high frequency. If someone searches for "surfing the web anonomously" on a single engine for 12 hours, they may need more help than we can give . I'm guessing that a small set of sample searches are captured and then put into a random looping program. Those searches appear to stay in Metaspy for about one day and are then replaced. Does it really make a difference? Perhaps not, but it's interesting to know in any case. ************************************************************* * Bill Manson * "Technology is * * Executive Director * impossible to * * Merrimack Valley Library Consortium * predict, but * * Andover, MA 01810 * stupidity is a * * Phone:(978) 475-7632 * known constant." * * Fax: (978) 475-8158 * * * Email: manson@mvlc.lib.ma.us * -- Scott Adams * ************************************************************* From E.J.Blagg at lboro.ac.uk Wed Nov 12 10:03:44 1997 From: E.J.Blagg at lboro.ac.uk (Emma J. Blagg) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: FIDDO Website Updates Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971112150344.011508f4@staff-mailin.lboro.ac.uk> Apologies for cross posting The FIDDO 1997 Annual Report is now on the web available from: http://dils2.lboro.ac.uk/fiddo/fiddo.html Other recent additions include a summary of FIDDO's pilot evaluation of an electronic document delivery service. We welcome all comments and suggestions, particularly on the pilot evaluation. Emma Blagg ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Emma J. Blagg FIDDO Project Department of Information & Library Studies Loughborough University Leicestershire LE11 3TU UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 222177 fax: +44(0)1509 223053 email: e.j.blagg@lboro.ac.uk http://dils2.lboro.ac.uk/fiddo/fiddo.html ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Wed Nov 12 10:07:29 1997 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals In-Reply-To: <478F3F368ED@libris.libs.uga.edu> Message-ID: Marty Tanner Hughes writes: >but with Project Muse and JSTOR subscriptions and various publishers >offering all of their titles online, the numbers seem to demand a different >approach. We, too were faced with an ever-growing list of E-journal titles, so we decided to take the individual journal titles off our main resource menus and provide access to them through our catalog (we have a web interface) instead. For the time being, we're still providing collection-level access (like JSTOR) on the menus but we're considering whether to take all full-text resources off the menus and provide them only through the catalog. On the other hand, we have a number of subject-based guides which list individual E-journal (and other) titles. It is up to the author of each subject guide to decide what to include. This is not only a question of navigatibility and presentation to users; there is also the issue of the duplication of effort required to create and maintain both catalog and menu (we do use a database) records for each title. >In addition to subscriptions, we also want to point our users toward >"free" resources on the Web. Do we mix these in with our "on-campus >only" subscriptions? Though I've seen this distinction made, it really baffles me. If a resource is of high enough quality for us to want to offer it to our users, it shouldn't matter (from a menuing perspective) whether we've paid for it or not. The same goes for "Internet" versus "local" resources. It's nice to go to one spot to find resources of a particular type or subject area, and not to have to check the "free" menu *and* the "paid-for" menu. On the other hand, you may want to have an area for peripheral (usually free) resources that would not be considered part of the "core" (usually expensive) resource collection. It's entirely appropriate to put these in a separate area, but the distinction should be made on the basis of their potential use for patrons, not on whether they cost the library money. PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman University of Wisconsin General Library System Automation Services pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu (608) 265-5291 From duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu Wed Nov 12 10:19:34 1997 From: duncanr at lafvax.lafayette.edu (Bob Duncan) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:01 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971112101934.007b1c30@lafvax.lafayette.edu> At 08:47 AM 11/12/97, Barbara Stewart wrote: >Really though, what possible difference can it make to a user if there are >30,000 or 50,000 hits? I defy *anyone* to show me a student who tracked >down even 2,000 hits, let alone these larger numbers. What matters here is >relevancy, not numerical sameness.... Agreed, but what good is "relevancy" if 20,000 possibilities are left out of the determination of what's relevant? Bob Duncan ~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~'~ Robert E. Duncan Reference/Instruction Librarian David Bishop Skillman Library Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 duncanr@lafayette.edu http://www.lafayette.edu/faculty/duncanr/ From pmy2n at virginia.edu Wed Nov 12 10:38:24 1997 From: pmy2n at virginia.edu (Patrick Yott) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: WWW Programming Workshop Message-ID: <01bcef81$03899860$a2c58f80@SSDC.lib.virginia.edu> ARL Announces... ...Workshop on Electronic Publishing of Data Sets on the World Wide Web The ARL Statistics and Measurement Program will again offer its popular three-day workshop on publishing and analyzing data sets on the World Wide Web, January 5-7, 1998, at the University of Virginia. For more information about the workshop see: Purpose and Overview: This three-day workshop is one in a series of ARL initiatives to provide essential skills to information professionals who work with numeric data sets and data analysis. Numerical databases and quantitative analysis require knowledge of statistical programming, but the WWW allows users to manipulate data more easily. The workshop is intended for librarians, information professionals, educators, and data producers and provides hands-on experience in developing interfaces for publishing and analyzing data sets on the World Wide Web (WWW). Workshop participants will be given step-by-step instructions to develop tools for creating useful interactive sites for social, economic, demographic, and other data on the Internet. The curriculum includes developing HTML pages for datafiles, creating Perl scripts, working with CGI, and invoking SPSS and other statistical analysis tools to provide transparent data analysis capabilities for data users. Familiarity with either HTML, Perl, and statistical packages is helpful but not essential. This workshop is intended to extend the skills of those with some familiarity with HTML and the Unix operating system. Attendance will be limited to 18. Workshop Leader: Patrick Yott, Coordinator of Social Science Data Services, University of Virginia Libraries Dates, Times, Fees: January 5-7, 1998 Social Science Data Center University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA $450 (ARL members $400) Additional Information: For program information contact Julia Blixrud (jblix@arl.org). For registration information contact Mary Jane Brooks (maryjane@cni.org). ================REGISTRATION FORM=================== Association of Research Libraries - Electronic Publishing of Data Sets on the World Wide Web January 5-7, 1998: University of Virginia Registration fee: _____$475 _____$400 ARL Members Name:___________________________________________________________ Title:____________________________________________________________ Institution:______________________________________________________ Library:__________________________________________________________ Address:__________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ City:___________________________State:______________ZIP___________ Phone___________________________FAX_______________________________ Email:____________________________________________________________ Payment Method - Prepayment is required, ARL members may be billed Check:________________ Mastercard____________ VISA__________________ ARL Member____________ Make checks payable to the Association of Research Libraries. Note, ARL cannot guarantee security of credit card data transmitted via email. Credit Card #______________________________Exp. date:________________ Mail, email, or fax registration form and payment to: Association of Research Libraries Publishing Datasets Workshop 21 Dupont Circle, NW Suite 800 Washington, DC 20036 tel (202) 296-2296 fax (202) 872-0884 From morganj at iupui.edu Wed Nov 12 11:05:50 1997 From: morganj at iupui.edu (Jim Morgan) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Prt of the problem of the "free" journals is that their polices seem to be in flux. We get a number of advertisements from medical publishers of journals that are free until a certain date, others that have a few articles free but charge for others, and still others that offer abstracts but require payment for the complete text. We've wound up creating one list for journals to which our users have full access to all online articles (by some sort of login code or IP number) plus journals which seem likely to remain free (such as government publications) and a second list which simply lists all biomedical online journals of interest to our users. The second more complete list is just our way of saying to our users "You can get to this journal online, but you may or may not be able to get to full-text articles" depending on the current policy of the publisher. Of course in all cases the online offerings are limited. Except for those journals that were produced online from the start, very few journals seem to have their entire archive online. And we haven't yet been able to offer our users evaluations of the quality of the online journal. Information about the completeness of the material - the availability of illustrations, tables, editorial material and advertising - would be useful but is time-consuming to collect. Jim Morgan morganj@iupui.edu On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Peter C. Gorman wrote: > Marty Tanner Hughes writes: > > >but with Project Muse and JSTOR subscriptions and various publishers > >offering all of their titles online, the numbers seem to demand a different > >approach. > > We, too were faced with an ever-growing list of E-journal titles, so we > decided to take the individual journal titles off our main resource menus > and provide access to them through our catalog (we have a web interface) > instead. For the time being, we're still providing collection-level access > (like JSTOR) on the menus but we're considering whether to take all > full-text resources off the menus and provide them only through the > catalog. On the other hand, we have a number of subject-based guides which > list individual E-journal (and other) titles. It is up to the author of > each subject guide to decide what to include. > > This is not only a question of navigatibility and presentation to users; > there is also the issue of the duplication of effort required to create and > maintain both catalog and menu (we do use a database) records for each > title. > > >In addition to subscriptions, we also want to point our users toward > >"free" resources on the Web. Do we mix these in with our "on-campus > >only" subscriptions? > > Though I've seen this distinction made, it really baffles me. If a resource > is of high enough quality for us to want to offer it to our users, it > shouldn't matter (from a menuing perspective) whether we've paid for it or > not. The same goes for "Internet" versus "local" resources. It's nice to go > to one spot to find resources of a particular type or subject area, and not > to have to check the "free" menu *and* the "paid-for" menu. On the other > hand, you may want to have an area for peripheral (usually free) resources > that would not be considered part of the "core" (usually expensive) > resource collection. It's entirely appropriate to put these in a separate > area, but the distinction should be made on the basis of their potential > use for patrons, not on whether they cost the library money. > > PG > _______________________________ > Peter C. Gorman > University of Wisconsin > General Library System > Automation Services > pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu > (608) 265-5291 > > From ERICH at citrus.lib.fl.us Wed Nov 12 11:53:04 1997 From: ERICH at citrus.lib.fl.us (ERIC C. HEAD--TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Computer competencies. Message-ID: <971112115304.507d@citrus.lib.fl.us> Earlier this year there was a thread (I think it was on this list) about computer competencies for reference librarians and other staff that are becoming increasingly dependent on electronic resources. I would be interested in learning about any policies or standards you are using when giving annual reviews or interviewing new hires. Even if there are no written standards, I'm curious about your thoughts in determining which computer skills are most desirable and which are absolutely necessary for reference librarians and other public support staff. Please resond to me directly at erich@citrus.lib.fl.us and I will gladly summarize for the list. Thank you. Eric _____________________________________________________ Eric C. Head Technology Specialist erich@citrus.lib.fl.us Citrus County Library System ech@xtalwind.net http://www.cclib.org From L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 12 10:22:56 1997 From: L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk (Leonard Will) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , Barbara Stewart writes >Really though, what possible difference can it make to a user if there are >30,000 or 50,000 hits? I defy *anyone* to show me a student who tracked >down even 2,000 hits, let alone these larger numbers. What matters here is >relevancy, not numerical sameness.... Yes, but presumably these systems complete their retrieval operation before sorting the results into order of relevance. It may be that some of the most relevant items are among those that they fail to retrieve because of a time or number-of-items cut-off, so we never see them. Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- From GLEN at rimu.cce.ac.nz Wed Nov 12 15:21:17 1997 From: GLEN at rimu.cce.ac.nz (Glen Davies) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals Message-ID: <256B4F914C4@rimu.cce.ac.nz> We are looking at the likes of Blackwell's Electronic Journal Navigator which will provide a common interface to electronic journals from various suppliers, at a cost of course. http://eservices.blackwell.co.uk/ejn/ While they don't have a very comprehensive list of journals yet this should quickly increase. OCLC are also setting up something similar. http://www.oclc.org/oclc/menu/eco.htm One advantage of their setup is that they are archiving all electronic journals that they provide access to and they also keep a record of when your subscriptions started and finished. This means you can still access backcopies of journals for the period that your sub was current. > Our library is acquiring an increasing number of subscriptions to > Web-based journals and other resources. We're looking for a friendly > way to present these journals to our clientele. When the numbers were > small, we were able to offer a link from our web site to each journal, > but with Project Muse and JSTOR subscriptions and various publishers > offering all of their titles online, the numbers seem to demand a different > approach. > > While we catalog our electronic journals, we don't have a web-based > online catalog (yet), so we're looking for a way to get users to the > resources from our web site. > > In addition to subscriptions, we also want to point our users toward > "free" resources on the Web. Do we mix these in with our "on-campus > only" subscriptions? > > Does anyone have good solutions? Do you list individual journal > titles or just link to the projects? Would a database help us > maintain a list of journals? Is an alphabetical list and/or one > arranged by subject useful to users of your web site? Do you have > searching facilities to help users find particular journals? What sort > of workflow do you use in subscribing to electronic resources and > making them accessible? I'd love to hear about successful methods and > to see examples of what others are doing. > > Thank you for your help. > Marty Tanner Hughes > Asst. Systems Librarian > University of Georgia Libraries > Athens, GA 30602 > *********************************************************** Glen Davies Information Technology Librarian Christchurch College of Education Christchurch New Zealand glen@rimu.cce.ac.nz 64-3-343 7737 ************************************************************ "I've been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library" F.Scott Fitzgerald The Great Gatsby, ch3 ************************************************************ From jward at northernlight.com Wed Nov 12 14:30:14 1997 From: jward at northernlight.com (Joyce Ward) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Search engines -- Northern Light responses Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971112143014.00b01648@bronze> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2172 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971112/d9a13006/attachment.bin From narnett at verity.com Wed Nov 12 15:05:02 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971112200502.00fc8890@verity.com> At 04:12 PM 11/10/97 -0800, Booher, Craig wrote: > Now we have reached the second conundrum faced by users of >Internet search engines - relevancy ranking. While our knowledge of the >search engine details may be unacceptable, we know even less about their >relevancy ranking algorithms. With what confidence can we state that >(using the example provided) item #4,763 is less relevant than >previously presented items? I'll take issue with that on two counts. 1. Given the number of documents being searched, relevancy-ranking is insufficient to reasonably differentiate among documents for subject-oriented searches. It is only sufficient when the searcher knows almost exactly what he or she is seeking and how it differs from the corpus. This is a small percentage of searches. 2. We do not understand the "algorithms," if there are such structures, used by *humans* for subject-oriented categorization; sufficiently advanced relevancy ranking will be essentially unpredictable because it is based on fuzzy logic in an effort to imitate the poorly understood human mind's methods. This is true of Verity's relevancy ranking for all but the simplest queries. There is no useful way to predict how a set of evidence will accrue into a relevancy score. The useful information is the algorithms' goal, not the actual algorithms. For example, our density operator is a third-order algorithm that ranks the first few repetitions of a term much higher than the later ones, while also taking into account the document length. The goal is to have a reasonable curve, to capture the presumed human behavior that when a term is repeated a few times, it is significant, but when it is repeated too many times, it significance increases gradually. Thus, you can know the algorithm, but unless you completely understand how peoples' use of language is revealed in term density, the information isn't useful. Our appreciation of the usefulness of categorization in conjunction with search has led us to defocus somewhat on improving relevancy ranking. The volume of documents being searched has grown beyond its limits; we're focusing on returning results in the context of categories (something we learned from librarians!), with relevancy ranking coming into play only as the searcher has chosen the context(s) in which to search in detail. Nick Arnett Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From drichard at WPI.EDU Wed Nov 12 15:16:54 1997 From: drichard at WPI.EDU (Donald G Richardson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals In-Reply-To: <478F3F368ED@libris.libs.uga.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Marty Tanner Hughes wrote: > While we catalog our electronic journals, we don't have a web-based > online catalog (yet), so we're looking for a way to get users to the > resources from our web site. > Marty: We have started adding links to electronic journals from our web-based online catalog (an Endeavor Voyager system at http://library.wpi.edu/). If you do a keyword search in the catalog for the phrase "online version," I think that you'll come up with all of the e-journals we've linked from the catalog so far, along with some other non-journal links. Our goal is to have everything listed in the catalog eventually. In the meantime, we also maintain an Electronic Journals area and provide a link to it from the library home page. We have over 300 titles linked there by subject category and by title. There are links to large collections such as IDEAL and Project Muse, and we have added links to individual titles within those collections to increase the visibility of the IDEAL and PM titles within our overall e-journals collection. > In addition to subscriptions, we also want to point our users toward > "free" resources on the Web. Do we mix these in with our "on-campus > only" subscriptions? > We've mixed the free resources with the paid ones. An access note accompanies those titles that are restricted to our domain. > ... What sort of workflow do you use in subscribing to electronic > resources and making them accessible? We created some guidelines for adding e-journals to the collection. This includes monitoring the NewJour list and identifying e-journals to which we can link for free by virtue of having a print subscription. The library's web coordinator created a submittal that makes it easy to add titles to the e-journals pages. The Serials Cataloger adds the links to e-journals in the library catalog. If you have any questions about what we've done, please let me know. Don Richardson ** drichard@wpi.edu Reference/Systems Librarian ** Gordon Library WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) 100 Institute Road ** Worcester, MA 01609-2280 Voice (508) 831-5410 ** Fax (508) 831-5829 From LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU Wed Nov 12 16:02:38 1997 From: LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU (DEANNE LUCK) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: More on search engines Message-ID: <01IPXCQKNV8Y004CXA@APSU01.APSU.EDU> There is a review article comparing AltaVista, Excite, HotBot, Infoseek, Lycos, and Northern Light in the latest (Dec. 97) issue of Internet World. They give "Best of Test" to AltaVista, with HotBot second. Regarding some of the questions/comments posted here, they note that in Infoseek you can run a search within an initial result set. And in Lycos, you can customize how it does the relevancy rankings. They also liked Northern Light, recommending it for "serious researchers". Personally, I've found NL's Custom Search Folders to be very helpful in the few searches I've run in it. DeAnne Luck Electronic Resources Librarian Austin Peay State University LuckDL@apsu01.apsu.edu From LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU Wed Nov 12 16:06:19 1997 From: LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU (DEANNE LUCK) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Professional associations Message-ID: <01IPXD5LITUW004CXA@APSU01.APSU.EDU> Is anyone on this list active in LITA? I, too, have been looking for an association "home" and thought the Internet Resources Interest Group looked good. DeAnne Luck Electronic Resources Librarian Austin Peay State University LuckDL@apsu01.apsu.edu From even.flood at ub.ntnu.no Sun Nov 9 16:15:05 1997 From: even.flood at ub.ntnu.no (Even Flood) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results Message-ID: <199711122114.WAA03927@serv1.ub.ntnu.no> At 05:42 12.11.97 -0800, you wrote: >Really though, what possible difference can it make to a user if there are >30,000 or 50,000 hits? I defy *anyone* to show me a student who tracked >down even 2,000 hits, let alone these larger numbers. What matters here is >relevancy, not numerical sameness.... >************************************************** >Barbara Stewart, Latin American Cataloger >Univ. of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA >(413)545-2728 >stew@library.umass.edu > It makes a great difference whether you get three or ten hits. Or thirty versus hundred hits. Which is the kind of searches I do on the great robot engines. My experience is that if your searches run into the thousands, you should not be using robot indexes, but go to one of the man generated structured indexes instead, like Yahoo!, BUBL or the WWW virtual library. Chances are that if you are searching for some thing big or comprehensive, someone has already done the important job of sorting them and put in a web catalogue, and Yahoo! and the others are very good at picking up those.The web cataloges are then by far the best web tools. BTW - the Encyplopaedia Britannica is testing out a web catalog at http://www.ebig.com/ which has impressed me quite a bit. Try it! Even Even Flood, Senior Research Librarian Norwegian DIANE Center, University Library of Trondheim, N 7034 Trondheim, Norway. Phone: +47 73 59 51 62, Fax +47 73 59 60 97 even.flood@ub.ntnu.no <*> "Come, and take choice of all my library, and so beguile thy sorrow." (Shakespeare) From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Wed Nov 12 16:00:52 1997 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Tentative CLA Internet Booth Assignments Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4521 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971112/d59eb77f/attachment.bin From ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov Wed Nov 12 17:00:41 1997 From: ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov (Chizuko Kawamoto) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Search engines -- Northern Light responses Message-ID: I wasn't going to participate in this subject, but reading Joyce Ward's response on relevancy ranking, classification, and query interpretation algorithms, I tried Northern Light Search to find information for my staff. I searched using (1) child biting, then (2) +child +biting. Both retrieved the same number of postings, but they were so different from each other. Within the first query, the same article was listed at least twice (more, if you include different sites)--one as 91 % relevancy, the other 74 % relevancy. How does this happen? Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Wed Nov 12 17:48:53 1997 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: omigod--what a mess! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971112/0fddf544/attachment.bin From smaze at iris.wmwoods.edu Wed Nov 12 18:30:45 1997 From: smaze at iris.wmwoods.edu (Susan Maze) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply Message-ID: <199711130033.SAA21662@vortex.more.net> Hello, I really tried to stay out of this but I just couldnt help myself. Unfortunately, one of the things we have found with the major search engines (at least at the time we did the research) is the people who answer the questions re: search engine inconsistencies are in PR and are not generally very aware of the technology. Many times we received answers copied and pasted from the help pages on the site in response to specific search questions. > Judy Chen from HotBot seems to be the only rep from a major search engine > who participates in Web4Lib, and her answers to questions raised in this > thread have been the real gems of the discussion. Maybe we need to invite > other search engine producers to participate in this list? I truly do appreciate Ms. Chen's participation and look forward to learning more from her. Susan Maze Reference/Systems Librarian Dulany Library William Woods University Fulton, Missouri 65251 (573)592-4279 From brandong at mail.gyral.com Wed Nov 12 13:33:17 1997 From: brandong at mail.gyral.com (brandong@mail.gyral.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: REMOVE In-Reply-To: <199711122114.WAA03927@serv1.ub.ntnu.no> Message-ID: <199711130034.TAA24737@gyral.com> Can someone help me get removed from this list? I've searched everywhere and can't get removed frrom this list. From PANDIAN at fac.irm.ernet.in Thu Nov 13 00:43:33 1997 From: PANDIAN at fac.irm.ernet.in (M.Paul Pandian) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Book reviewers needed Message-ID: <1F9BDC6629B@fac.irm.ernet.in> Dear Mr. Wiley Congratulations to you for your new assignment as editor of Hardcopy book review for ONLINE and DATABASE magazines. I am an information professional with Associateship in Documentation and Information Science from Indian Statistical Institute, India and having over 9 years experience in computerised information processing and organisation in the network environment. I will be happy to write the book reviews for ONLINE and DATABASE magazines. My area of interests: 1. Internet Information System for Library Design and development of Internet/Web Server for Library, HomePages, Online databases, search interfaces for online databases etc. 2. Digital Libraries 3. Library Networking 4. Library Automation I have designed and developed a cost effective internet server for our library using Linux operating system, Apache web server s/w, CDS/ISIS - a database management program from UNESCO, WWWISIS - a web interface for searching cds/isis databases. You can visit the site at http://library.irm.ernet.in/ I would appreciate, if you can keep me informed. Tue, 11 Nov 1997 06:51:17 - 0800 > Send reply to: deb@consultnw.com > From: Deb Wiley > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Book reviewers needed > Hello, > I'm the new editor of the Hardcopy book review column for ONLINE and > DATABASE magazines. I am seeking creative, deadline-oriented librarians or > information professionals to write reviews on an occasional basis. Please > contact me with details of your background and areas of interest. > > Thanks. > > Deb Wiley > deb@consultnw.com > > > > > Deborah Lynne Wiley > Next Wave Consulting, Inc. > ~~ helping publishers profit in a digital age ~~ > P.O. Box 8 Deale, MD 20751 > phone:301-261-9012 *** fax 410-867-8298 > mailto:deb@consultnw.com http://consultnw.com > M Paul Pandian *********************************************** * Ravi J. Matthai Library * * Institute of Rural Management * * Anand 388 001, Gujarat * * India * * * * Tel:0091-2692-40177, 40171, 40391 * * Fax:0091-2692-40188 * * * * email:pandian@fac.irm.ernet.in * * http://library.irm.ernet.in/ * *********************************************** From walthowe at delphi.com Thu Nov 13 00:57:40 1997 From: walthowe at delphi.com (Walt Howe) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:02 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: <199711130033.SAA21662@vortex.more.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971113005740.007d8270@pop.delphi.com> I hope some of you will be able to attend our "Librarians Talk to Search Engines" session at the Internet Librarian Conference in Monterey next Monday from 9 to 10:45am. We have reps from AltaVista, HotBot, InfoSeek, Northern Light, and Yahoo speaking. Several of the speakers are librarians themselves, and we are reserving about half the time for questions and comments from a panel (Hope Tillman, Greg Notess, and myself) and attendees. Walt From AULT at faxon.com Thu Nov 13 08:16:01 1997 From: AULT at faxon.com (Roz Ault, Information Technology, X 377) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Electronic Journals Message-ID: <5301160913111997/A23958/QUASAR/11BB6A4C0600*@MHS> Regarding recent discussions on electronic journals: Faxon has compiled an extensive and growing list of electronic journals, with prices and links to publisher information. It's available on the Web at: http://www.faxon.com/html/it_ej.html - Roz Ault ault@faxon.com From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Nov 13 10:19:27 1997 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: History of library home page design Message-ID: Does anyone know of an archive of old library web site pages? - I'm wanting to trace the evolution of library home page design over the last 2-3 years ... starting from the time when the predominant motif for the library home page was to have the entire first screen of the home page taken up by a PHOTO of the library! --Eric * * * * * * * * * Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 http://www.arcade.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/home.html 319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) From sfowler at camden.lib.me.us Thu Nov 13 10:40:51 1997 From: sfowler at camden.lib.me.us (Scheherazade Fowler) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971113005740.007d8270@pop.delphi.com> Message-ID: <9711131532.AA14199@library.berkeley.edu> I hope someone from the conference will volunteer to post a summary to the list for those of us who can't attend. I've found this thread timely and useful and hope others will continue to share experiences, explanations, and frustrations with the list. I appreciate the search engine reps' comments and would be eager to know how they respond/ present themselves at the conference. Thanks, Sherry Fowler Systems Librarian Camden Public Library Camden, ME 04843 \> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:16:18 -0800 > Reply-to: walthowe@delphi.com > From: Walt Howe > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Web Search Engines "Made Simple" -Reply > I hope some of you will be able to attend our "Librarians Talk to Search > Engines" session at the Internet Librarian Conference in Monterey next > Monday from 9 to 10:45am. We have reps from AltaVista, HotBot, InfoSeek, > Northern Light, and Yahoo speaking. Several of the speakers are librarians > themselves, and we are reserving about half the time for questions and > comments from a panel (Hope Tillman, Greg Notess, and myself) and attendees. > > > > Walt > > From library at popi.net Thu Nov 13 11:43:27 1997 From: library at popi.net (Mignon Morse) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Internet tutorials Message-ID: <346B2E2F.733E@popi.net> Hello, Would someone recommend some good tutorials on the internet that teach internet? Thanks. -- ************************** MIgnon Morse Library Director Smith Public Library 800 Thomas Street Wylie, TX 75098 972-442-7566 972-442-4075 (fax) http://www.wylie.tx.us/library/ From billt at nist.gov Thu Nov 13 12:06:16 1997 From: billt at nist.gov (Bill Trefzger) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: History of library home page design Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971113120615.00beea60@mailserver2.nist.gov> Eric, We recently published an article about our web site which includes nice contrasting images of the original home page and the current one, as well as some discussion of design considerations: http://www.computer.org/internet/ic1997/w5035abs.htm Note that we are now redesigning again--a design gets stale pretty fast! Bill At 07:42 AM 11/13/97 -0800, Eric Rumsey wrote: >Does anyone know of an archive of old library web site pages? - I'm wanting >to trace the evolution of library home page design over the last 2-3 years >.. starting from the time when the predominant motif for the library home >page was to have the entire first screen of the home page taken up by a >PHOTO of the library! > > --Eric > >* * * * * * * * * >Eric Rumsey, >Hardin Library for the Health Sciences >University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 >http://www.arcade.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/home.html > >319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) > > > > Bill Trefzger NIST Electronic Information phone:(301)975-2146 & Publications Program fax:(301)869-8071 Bldg 101, Room E106 mailto:billt@nist.gov Gaithersburg, MD 20899 http://nvl.nist.gov/ From webguru at gtu.edu Thu Nov 13 11:19:25 1997 From: webguru at gtu.edu (Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: <199711122114.WAA03927@serv1.ub.ntnu.no> Message-ID: At 2:24 PM -0800 11/12/97, Even Flood wrote: >...Yahoo! and the others are very good at picking up those. > The web cataloges are then by far the best web tools. This is tru to a degree. However there is much that these catalogs do not have, a better choice are subject specific web link catalogs like we have created (and are still creating) at the GTU. Have you ever registered a series of pages with Yahoo? This is a very tedious process with your having to fill out a form for every page. Infoseek at least allows you to email a list of URLs and Hotbot you can register your pages with one URL. I often refer to the general catalogs when starting a new subject specific links page but rarely get more than a basic start. A Hotbot search often turns up much more. Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator webguru@gtu.edu (currently Gilles Poitras gpoitras@gtu.edu) Graduate Theological Union Library 2400 Ridge Road Berkeley, California, USA http://www.gtu.edu/library/ From jward at northernlight.com Thu Nov 13 12:47:18 1997 From: jward at northernlight.com (Joyce Ward) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: 'Child biting' -- response from Northern Light Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971113124718.00b34174@bronze> Chizuko, Northern Light interprets the queries child biting and +child +biting in the same way: child [and] biting and retrieves the same number of documents (7,728) for each. The words in the document are not required to appear next to one another. (If you want the phrase "child biting", put it in quotes. This retrieves 14 documents, where the terms are proximate.) The documents are displayed in somewhat different relevancy order in these two quereis because in the +child +biting case, we don't use phrase info in the ranking, since the assumption was that phrases would be entered as child biting or "child biting" but not +child +biting. We have noticed that people do sometimes use the 'plus' syntax when they mean a phrase, so we are considering changing the ranking so that it would be identical with or without the plus's. As for the duplicates you noted, the two documents are not exact duplicates...slightly different links out at the bottom, one of which contains the word 'child' and thus causes that document to rank higher. Joyce Ward & Marc Krellenstein From jresop at uwc.edu Fri Nov 14 12:54:26 1997 From: jresop at uwc.edu (Judy Resop) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Internet tutorials References: <346B2E2F.733E@popi.net> Message-ID: <346C9052.41C8CF48@uwc.edu> Mignon Morse wrote: > Hello, > > Would someone recommend some good tutorials on the internet that teach > > internet? > > Thanks. > > -- > ************************** > MIgnon Morse Hello, The general adult population in my Introduction to the Internet classes seems to enjoy the following site: NewbieU: New User University http://www.newbie-u.com The information given is worthwhile and done in a none-threatening manner. Judy Resop jresop@uwc.edu UW-Fond du Lac Library 400 Campus Drive Fond du Lac, WI 54935 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971114/b8027a15/attachment.htm From jdavis at abacus.bates.edu Thu Nov 13 13:59:12 1997 From: jdavis at abacus.bates.edu (Jennifer Davis) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: setdigest From kborowsk at seq.hamline.edu Thu Nov 13 13:57:12 1997 From: kborowsk at seq.hamline.edu (Kathryn Borowske) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: statewide library directories Message-ID: Librarians from several educational institutions in Minnesota (all academic libraries at this stage) are interested in developing a standardized, web-based statewide library directory and would like to hear of any similar efforts. We are hoping to include information for academic, special, public, and, possibly, k-12 libraries. Entries would include information on hours, facilities, policies, collection strengths or special resources (such as ERIC fiche) and a link to a web site or catalog (if available). Thanks-- any leads would be greatly appreciated. Kate Borowske ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kate Borowske Bush Library Reference Librarian/Graduate School Hamline University kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu 1536 Hewitt Ave. phone: 612-523-2442 St. Paul, MN 55104 fax: 612-523-2199 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov Thu Nov 13 14:33:21 1997 From: ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov (Chizuko Kawamoto) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: 'Child biting' -- response from Northern Light Message-ID: Thanks, Joyce for your explanation. I retrieved what I wanted right away from child biting (child & biting) search--thanks to "phrase info in the ranking." If you change the ranking in 'plus' search, you might as well abandon 'plus' syntax -- unless I'm missing its advantage. Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From mfraser at faculty.wtamu.edu Thu Nov 13 16:31:55 1997 From: mfraser at faculty.wtamu.edu (Morven Fraser) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Internet tutorials In-Reply-To: <346C9052.41C8CF48@uwc.edu> Message-ID: >Mignon Morse wrote: >> Hello, >> Would someone recommend some good tutorials on the internet that teach >> internet? BCK2SKOL is touted as: A New Class on the Net for Librarians with Little or No Net Experience" With over thirty lessons this seems to be a very comprehensive site providing both background information about the Internet as well as forecasts and search tips. Worth a look... Morven Fraser Reference/Distance Education Librarian Cornette Library West Texas A&M University Canyon, Texas 79016 tel:(806)656-2212 email:mfraser@faculty.wtamu.edu "Come, and take choice of all my library, / And so beguile thy sorrow." Titus Andonicus [IV.i.34] From KMarsh at Information.org Thu Nov 13 14:58:42 1997 From: KMarsh at Information.org (Kevin C. Marsh) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: statewide library directories Message-ID: <199711132126.PAA22169@darkstar.tnti.com> Kate Borowske wrote: >We are hoping to include information for academic, special, public, and, >possibly, k-12 libraries. Entries would include information on hours, >facilities, policies, collection strengths or special resources (such as >ERIC fiche) and a link to a web site or catalog (if available). This sounds like a good candidate for a GILS database. That way you could search for collections in a region or on a subject and retrieve descriptions with links. For libraries that support Z39.50 access to their catalogs, you could even offer the option of selecting libraries from the search results and running a second query against the contents of their collections. I'm working on a similar project with museum collections in Texas. Feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any questions about our project or our GILS/Z39.50 approach. Kevin C. Marsh, Executive Director Information Access Institute KMarsh@Information.org http://Information.org From ngodava at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Nov 13 16:24:09 1997 From: ngodava at cc.UManitoba.CA (ngodava@cc.UManitoba.CA) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: statewide library directories In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Manitoba Library Association has created a Directory of Libraries in Manitoba at its temporary location at www.gatewest.net/~mla (it will soon have its own domain name at www.mla.mb.ca) This actually comes from a 1993 document & is in need of revision, so I use a "checkmark" to indicate which entries have been updated. We have not submitted the site to any search engines yet (we are awaiting our domain status), so many are left to be updated. I figured that the addresses and phone numbers are relatively static, so we put it up. Once we announce it formally, we will get swamped with updates. I have notified the "larger" libraries & updated them already. We will be adding more sections than you see right now - those were the ones in the original "Directory". It is a work in progress. We are also investigating co-publishing a printed version with value-added features such as a history of the various libraries and special features NOT on the web version. I will be adding a search feature or at least an alphabetical link. We have included direct links to peoples' e-mail address, web pages & catalogs. We have additional plans for this site to knit it with a union list of serials we have waiting in the wings being worked on. This will be an incredible provincial resource once we get it all up & running. Please take a look and let me know what you think. It is a VERY plain site right now (minimal graphics), but we are open to suggestions. Thanks, Norma Godavari Director of Publications Manitoba Library Association a.k.a. Head, Engineering Library University of Manitoba Winterpeg Manitoba -------------------------- On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Kathryn Borowske wrote: > Librarians from several educational institutions in Minnesota (all > academic libraries at this stage) are interested in developing a > standardized, web-based statewide library directory and would like to hear > of any similar efforts. > > We are hoping to include information for academic, special, public, and, > possibly, k-12 libraries. Entries would include information on hours, > facilities, policies, collection strengths or special resources (such as > ERIC fiche) and a link to a web site or catalog (if available). > > Thanks-- any leads would be greatly appreciated. > > Kate Borowske > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Kate Borowske Bush Library > Reference Librarian/Graduate School Hamline University > kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu 1536 Hewitt Ave. > phone: 612-523-2442 St. Paul, MN 55104 > fax: 612-523-2199 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > From bernies at uillinois.edu Thu Nov 13 17:05:01 1997 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: statewide library directories Message-ID: You might want to take a look at the Illinois State Library's "ILLINET Library Directory". This Web-based service has listings for 3800+ Illinois libraries of all types. Go to: http://www.library.sos.state.il.us/lib_dir/lib_dir.htm Bernie Sloan ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant University of Illinois Office for Planning & Budgeting 338 Henry Administration Building 506 S. Wright Street Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: 217-333-4895 Fax: 217-333-6355 e-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu >---------- >From: Kathryn Borowske[SMTP:kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu] >Sent: Thursday, November 13, 1997 1:54 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: statewide library directories > >Librarians from several educational institutions in Minnesota (all >academic libraries at this stage) are interested in developing a >standardized, web-based statewide library directory and would like to hear >of any similar efforts. > >We are hoping to include information for academic, special, public, and, >possibly, k-12 libraries. Entries would include information on hours, >facilities, policies, collection strengths or special resources (such as >ERIC fiche) and a link to a web site or catalog (if available). > >Thanks-- any leads would be greatly appreciated. > >Kate Borowske >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > Kate Borowske Bush Library > Reference Librarian/Graduate School Hamline University > kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu 1536 Hewitt Ave. > phone: 612-523-2442 St. Paul, MN 55104 > fax: 612-523-2199 >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > > > > > > > > > > > From kpedersen at ifbf.org Thu Nov 13 17:27:57 1997 From: kpedersen at ifbf.org (kpedersen@ifbf.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: statewide library directories Message-ID: <8625654E.007AD90D.00@mail.fbfs.com> State of Iowa Libraries Online (SILO) has such a directory. It may be viewed at: http://www.silo.lib.ia.us/lib-dir.html . Contact information for individuals responsible for the site is available as well. I find the directory to be very helpful. Kara Pedersen Librarian Iowa Farm Bureau Federation West Des Moines, IA kpedersen@ifbf.org Librarians from several educational institutions in Minnesota (all academic libraries at this stage) are interested in developing a standardized, web-based statewide library directory and would like to hear of any similar efforts. From ulhrl at dewey.newcastle.edu.au Thu Nov 13 17:28:28 1997 From: ulhrl at dewey.newcastle.edu.au (Helen R Lloyd) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: AltaVista Strange Results In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971112101934.007b1c30@lafvax.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: > >Really though, what possible difference can it make to a user if there are > >30,000 or 50,000 hits? I defy *anyone* to show me a student who tracked > >down even 2,000 hits, let alone these larger numbers. What matters here is > >relevancy, not numerical sameness.... > > Agreed, but what good is "relevancy" if 20,000 possibilities are left out > of the determination of what's relevant? > Exactly! When I analysed the first 20 hits of the "date rape" query at both the original AltaVista site and the Australian mirror, there were only two matches. The first and fourth items from the Australian mirror appeared in the first 10 hits from the original US site. That's rather a lot of items not turning up in a search of the Australian site. Also a search that finds only 20 or so items at one site may find over 100 at the other. This is an important difference for a researcher. When is a mirror site not a mirror site? What concerns me is that we have always recommended that our clients use the Australian site, and only list this site on our pages. But now I'm thinking I should be including a link to the US site as well. Helen Lloyd Helen Lloyd | email: ulhrl@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Faculty Librarian (Art & Design) | and Web Manager | Huxley Library | Ph (intl+61+2) 49216455 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+2) 49216904 From duda at library.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 13 18:25:04 1997 From: duda at library.ucsb.edu (Andrea Duda) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:04 2005 Subject: Issues in Science and Technology Librarianship Message-ID: ISSUES IN SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY LIBRARIANSHIP Fall 1997 issue available http://www.library.ucsb.edu/istl/ The fall 1997 issue of Issues in Science & Technology Librarianship focuses on instruction in sci-tech libraries. Web4lib readers may be most interested in this issue's "science and technology sources on the Internet" column which presents a variety of sources for scientific and medical news. Articles in this issue are: * Training the Trainers: Creating A Workshop on Teaching Chemical Information * Developing and Delivering Medical Reference Source Instruction in a Special Library * Biological Research and the Library: A Collaboration in Online Research and Library Instruction * Searching Science from the Office: Science and Engineering Workshops by Janet Martorana and Rosemary L. Meszaros, University of * Library Instruction Ideas for Science and Technology: A Baker's Dozen =========================================================== Andrea L. Duda Networked Information Access Coordinator Davidson Library, University of California, Santa Barbara E-mail: duda@library.ucsb.edu InfoSurf: http://www.library.ucsb.edu =========================================================== From achriste at lib.ci.phoenix.az.us Thu Nov 13 18:38:47 1997 From: achriste at lib.ci.phoenix.az.us (Anne Christensen) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:05 2005 Subject: www time limits and traffic control Message-ID: Please excuse the cross-posting. I need help with traffic control. Here's the big picture: We currently have 15 public PCs on a LAN. They access our library catalog, 27 CD-Rom Databases, 10 subscription databases which we receive via the internet, and full graphic WWW access. We also have a great number of dumb terminals throughout the building which access the library catalog and character-cell versions of the subscription databases. For the 15 public PCs on the LAN we have had to go to a sign-in procedure. Early on, we learned that our volume was too great to take i.d. We do, however, issue small slips with the *beginning* time for the user on that workstation. The same time is then jotted on a chart at the General Reference Desk. Everyone gets at least 1/2 hour. They are welcome to stay longer if no one else is waiting. Once you are bumped, you must wait at least 20 minutes before getting in line to sign up again. We currently have no daily time limit, but it's starting to get tempting! This is the best we've been able to come up with so far. Our problems include the following: Monopolization of electronic resources by a number of patrons with "unique" hobbies, lifestyles, and behavioral problems (not necessarily related to the internet but certainly enhanced by it.) Staff burnout in spending hours each day resolving petty squabbles among users. I'm asking for your help in finding alternate methods of traffic control. Does anyone out there use a different type of registration? Do you have different time limits/registration procedures for different types of products? Have you found an electronic way of limiting abusive resource users? All input is welcome! You may reply to me and I'll summarize for the group or post here. Thanks! Anne Christensen Librarian II Phoenix Public Library achriste@lib.ci.phoenix.az.us From jmk at synopsys.com Thu Nov 13 18:56:21 1997 From: jmk at synopsys.com (Janet Kaul) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:05 2005 Subject: Last confirm for Internet Librarian conf. dinner Message-ID: <199711132356.PAA10145@marius.synopsys.com> Here is the latest list of people I have who want to attend dinner on Tuesday night, meeting at 6:30 in the bar of the Doubletree (and remember those hats!). If you want to go and have not told me or I missed your name, email jmk@synopsys.com. Same if you said you would go, but now can't. I will be staying at the Holiday Inn, 408-373-6141, if there is a change in plans for any of you. See you on Tuesday! -Janet Kaul Lorrie Knight Mark Gooch Jenny Reiswig Frank Cervone (maybe) Elizabeth Murphy Susan Bott Pat Feeney Walt Howe Hope Tillman Steve Cramer Maggie Witwer Debra Levinson Maureen Shepard Nicole Hennig Alan Rosenlicht Sharon Spence D. Scott Brandt Terry Huwe Susan Reimensnyder Charlotte Doudell Eric Kristofferson Beverly Stafford Helen Laurence Kelly Doran Rebecca Withington Hal Kirkwood + wife and child Wayne Daniels Joyce Ward Linda Ransey Ann Borkin Cynthia Hetherington John Little From gus at asbestos.lib.rmit.edu.au Thu Nov 13 21:50:54 1997 From: gus at asbestos.lib.rmit.edu.au (Angus Waddell) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:05 2005 Subject: PDF file counter Message-ID: Hi all- I have had a request from one of our reserve librarians to find out how we can monitor the use of our web pages without making the counter visible. We specifically would want to monitor the number of times a certain link on a page is used, as we make our exam papers available in pdf format. Is this at all possible? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time. Gus Angus Waddell Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology Systems Tecnical Support Officer. + 61 3 9660 3983 gus@asbestos.lib.rmit.edu.au From greenp at boris.curtin.edu.au Fri Nov 14 00:39:07 1997 From: greenp at boris.curtin.edu.au (Peter Green) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:05 2005 Subject: Media Resources Librarian Message-ID: I have a request from a collegue in South Africa who is working as a Media Resources Librarian. She would like to get in contact with other librarians doing the same sort of work. Her request is below. Please respond directly to her. Suggested lists (other than web4lib) would also be very welcome. "We have a nice-sized media centre in the library where we have a number of telemonitors and multimedia pcs for viewing cd-roms and indexing cd-roms and where the internet can be accessed. We also have a slide collection and microfiche reader etc. I'd like to hear from people who work in similar facilities to get new ideas and more particularly hear how slide collections are dealt with and computer problems - an ever-increasing bugbear. I'm also supposed to help with planning new services. The academic libraries around Durban are not terribly up to date on these issues, so I thought making contact with other reputable libraries elsewhere would be interesting. Thanks Claudia claudiaa@umfolozi.ntech.ac.za" Cheers Peter From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Nov 14 08:24:23 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: PDF file counter Message-ID: <01bcf100$9f981710$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Angus Waddell To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, November 13, 1997 11:05 PM Subject: PDF file counter > >Hi all- > >I have had a request from one of our reserve librarians to find out how >we can monitor the use of our web pages without making the counter >visible. We specifically would want to monitor the number of times a >certain link on a page is used, as we make our exam papers available in >pdf format. Is this at all possible? Any info would be greatly >appreciated. Thanks for your time. > Odds are very good that you're already monitoring this. RMIT seems to be using the CERN httpd server. I am not really familiar with CERN's log structure, but I do know that it maintains access logs. Ask your webmaster where they are; what you seem to be looking for (the number of times a specific PDF file has been retrieved) is as easy to get as "grep -c filename.pdf access_log_file"*. 'Course you can get all fancy and install full blown log analysis tools, but that isn't strictly necessary for such a specific purpose. This assumes that the PDF files whose access you're counting reside on a server you control. If not, you probably need to contact the site where they live and ask about getting access log statistics. (*Okay, okay, you might want to do: grep -c 'GET /fullpath/to/filename.pdf.* 200 *' This is for an NCSA common log format and it may need some tweaking for CERN's log format.) Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From wroldfie at library.uwaterloo.ca Fri Nov 14 09:45:32 1997 From: wroldfie at library.uwaterloo.ca (William Oldfield) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: statewide library directories Message-ID: <199711141445.JAA13433@library.uwaterloo.ca> There is a directory of the OCUL (Ontario Council of University Libraries) libraries at the URL below. This is a directory of University Libraries in Ontario Canada. http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/ocul/ocul.html William Oldfield Networked Information Research Associate University of Waterloo Library http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/~wroldfie/home.html (519) 888-4567 Et 2461 -----Original Message----- From: Sloan, Bernie To: Multiple recipients of list Date: November 13, 1997 5:10 PM Subject: RE: statewide library directories > >You might want to take a look at the Illinois State Library's >"ILLINET Library Directory". This Web-based service has >listings for 3800+ Illinois libraries of all types. Go to: > >http://www.library.sos.state.il.us/lib_dir/lib_dir.htm > >Bernie Sloan > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Bernie Sloan >Senior Library Information Systems Consultant >University of Illinois Office for Planning & Budgeting >338 Henry Administration Building >506 S. Wright Street >Urbana, IL 61801 >Phone: 217-333-4895 >Fax: 217-333-6355 >e-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu > > >>---------- >>From: Kathryn Borowske[SMTP:kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu] >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 1997 1:54 PM >>To: Multiple recipients of list >>Subject: statewide library directories >> >>Librarians from several educational institutions in Minnesota (all >>academic libraries at this stage) are interested in developing a >>standardized, web-based statewide library directory and would like to hear >>of any similar efforts. >> >>We are hoping to include information for academic, special, public, and, >>possibly, k-12 libraries. Entries would include information on hours, >>facilities, policies, collection strengths or special resources (such as >>ERIC fiche) and a link to a web site or catalog (if available). >> >>Thanks-- any leads would be greatly appreciated. >> >>Kate Borowske >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>- >> Kate Borowske Bush Library >> Reference Librarian/Graduate School Hamline University >> kborowsk@seq.hamline.edu 1536 Hewitt Ave. >> phone: 612-523-2442 St. Paul, MN 55104 >> fax: 612-523-2199 >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From dbarclay at Bayou.UH.EDU Fri Nov 14 10:25:27 1997 From: dbarclay at Bayou.UH.EDU (Donald Barclay) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: www time limits and traffic control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We have have heavy traffic problems, too. Twenty of our 100 or so workstations are sign-up stations. The sign-up sheets divide the day into half-hour slots. An individual can sign up for two slots per day. The sign-up sheets are on clipboards mounted on power poles next to the workstations. The patrons sign themselves in. We also make it known that users can sign up in advance by phone or at the information desk. Each sign-up machine has its own prominent (in-your-face) sign telling the user that it is a sign-up machine and that if you are not signed up, be prepared to give it up to the person who is. So far, the system has been almost entirely self-policing. Of course when it is slow, patrons can use the sign-up terminals for as long as they want. We still get complaints when it is busy, but most complainers are quite satistifed when we tell them about the sign-up option. Donald A. Barclay Coordinator of Electronic Services always the beautiful answer University of Houston Libraries who asks a more beautiful question dbarclay@uh.edu --e.e. cummings www.uh.edu/~dbarclay From Mark.Gooch at law.csuohio.edu Fri Nov 14 12:33:27 1997 From: Mark.Gooch at law.csuohio.edu (Mark Gooch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: Internet Librarian '97 conference Message-ID: <346C8B67.857137A@law.csuohio.edu> The Web4Lib discussion group is getting together Tuesday, Nov. 18, in the bar of the Doubletree at 6:30, with hats on, so we can spot each other. We are probably going out for dinner. Maybe nettrainers could combine with them if people are interested? Mark -- Mark D. Gooch Cleveland State University Government Information Librarian 1801 Euclid Ave. Cleveland-Marshall Law Library Cleveland, Ohio 44115 (216)687-5579 Voice (216)687-5098 Fax Mark.Gooch@law.csuohio.edu http://www.law.csuohio.edu/lawlibrary/ From Mark.Gooch at law.csuohio.edu Fri Nov 14 12:44:27 1997 From: Mark.Gooch at law.csuohio.edu (Mark Gooch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: Internet Librarian '97 conference(again?) Message-ID: <346C8DFB.418D6EA3@law.csuohio.edu> I apologize if this is a dup message. The Web4Lib discussion group is getting together Tuesday, Nov. 18, in the bar of the Doubletree at 6:30, "with hats on, so we can spot each other". We are probably going out for dinner. Maybe nettrainers could combine with them if people are interested? Mark -- Mark D. Gooch Cleveland State University Government Information Librarian 1801 Euclid Ave. Cleveland-Marshall Law Library Cleveland, Ohio 44115 (216)687-5579 Voice (216)687-5098 Fax Mark.Gooch@law.csuohio.edu http://www.law.csuohio.edu/lawlibrary/ From cbooher at kcc.com Fri Nov 14 11:18:26 1997 From: cbooher at kcc.com (Booher, Craig) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <3D9072FC0F3CD111BFFF00805F157CD804669F@ustcax10.kcc.com> Nick, Thank your very much for your reply to my comments about relevancy ranking. I was hoping some vendors would respond and figured, given your willingness to participate in this forum, that you would be the first. I wholeheartedly concur with your first point - especially as implemented with the current web search engines. Unfortunately, when the average user hears "relevancy ranking" touted as a feature by a search engine, they naively assume that the first "X" hits of a retrieved set are ALWAYS the most relevant. I find myself constantly reminding staff in our organization that relevancy ranking is an inexact science (art?) at this stage of its development in the web arena. I truly appreciate your second point for several reasons. First, I have been (unsuccessfully) trying for several years to obtain information on Verity's relevance ranking "algorithms". I usually encounter hand waving or no response. Your description was a significant first step to answering my questions. I realize that the exact algorithms (i.e., object and source code) are considered proprietary and guarded for their "competitive advantage" (whether perceived or real). However, I still would like to see some more disclosure in this area. For example, which academic schools of thought were used as a basis or springboard for the current implementation? Can we see the mathematical development which led to the conclusion that this particular relevancy ranking approach was valid and optimal for the search engine and knowledge domain? In short, I'd like some theoretical basis and references to the literature which I can use to assess whether I, as a consumer, am comfortable with your relevancy ranking implementation. I would disagree with you when you say that "the algorithm's goal" not the algorithm itself is the "useful information." The goal of all these algorithms is to present the "most relevant" information first. HOW they determined what is "most relevant" is the useful information a consumer needs to know in order to assess the usefulness of the tool. (Again, I don't need to know the exact code, but I do require an understanding of the theoretical foundation for the algorithm.) Second, I was interested in your concluding comments wherein you indicated Verity was recognizing the inadequacy of applying relevancy ranking to large volumes of disparate information (at least that was my interpretation or your remarks). Instead, you are attempting to place search results into some sort of context and then apply relevancy ranking within the context. Is that context explicitly determined by the user, or somehow "calculated" by the computer? In either case, I'd be interested in learning more about this approach (and as you can probably surmise from my earlier remarks, can you identify any published literature on which you are basing your determination? :-)) Again, thanks for your comments, and I hope others will contribute to this thread. ---------- From: Nick Arnett[SMTP:narnett@verity.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: inconsistencies web search performance At 04:12 PM 11/10/97 -0800, Booher, Craig wrote: > Now we have reached the second conundrum faced by users of >Internet search engines - relevancy ranking. While our knowledge of the >search engine details may be unacceptable, we know even less about their >relevancy ranking algorithms. With what confidence can we state that >(using the example provided) item #4,763 is less relevant than >previously presented items? I'll take issue with that on two counts. 1. Given the number of documents being searched, relevancy-ranking is insufficient to reasonably differentiate among documents for subject-oriented searches. It is only sufficient when the searcher knows almost exactly what he or she is seeking and how it differs from the corpus. This is a small percentage of searches. 2. We do not understand the "algorithms," if there are such structures, used by *humans* for subject-oriented categorization; sufficiently advanced relevancy ranking will be essentially unpredictable because it is based on fuzzy logic in an effort to imitate the poorly understood human mind's methods. This is true of Verity's relevancy ranking for all but the simplest queries. There is no useful way to predict how a set of evidence will accrue into a relevancy score. The useful information is the algorithms' goal, not the actual algorithms. For example, our density operator is a third-order algorithm that ranks the first few repetitions of a term much higher than the later ones, while also taking into account the document length. The goal is to have a reasonable curve, to capture the presumed human behavior that when a term is repeated a few times, it is significant, but when it is repeated too many times, it significance increases gradually. Thus, you can know the algorithm, but unless you completely understand how peoples' use of language is revealed in term density, the information isn't useful. Our appreciation of the usefulness of categorization in conjunction with search has led us to defocus somewhat on improving relevancy ranking. The volume of documents being searched has grown beyond its limits; we're focusing on returning results in the context of categories (something we learned from librarians!), with relevancy ranking coming into play only as the searcher has chosen the context(s) in which to search in detail. Nick Arnett Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com Sincerely, Craig S. Booher Technical Information Coordinator Kimberly-Clark Corporation P.O. Box 999 telephone: 920/721-5219 Neenah, WI 54956-0999 fax: 920/721-8471 From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Fri Nov 14 11:15:47 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: [CONF] Crimea 98 (June 6-14, 1998: Sudak, Ukraine) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971114111547.009b14b0@nlc-bnc.ca> Dear Sirs/Madam, We are proud to announce that the Fifth Anniversary International Conference "Crimea 98" is held under the aegis of IFLA. The title of the Conference:"Libraries and Associations in a Transient World: New Technologies and New Forms of Cooperation" Date: June 6-14, 1998 Place of the conference: SUDAK, Republic of Crimea, Ukraine. If you are interested in participation in the Conference please contact the Organizing Committee (no later than March 1,1998). Fax: +7(095)921 98 62 Telex: 411118 bgpnt su E-mail: CRIMEA98@gpntb.msk.su The Conference Web-site: http://gpntb.iitp.ru/crimea98/(for on-line registration also) With regard, Vladimir Soroko President of the Belarusian Library Association From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Fri Nov 14 13:26:13 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: Locking Down Netscape Navigator Message-ID: When Glen Davies first posted to Web4Lib the idea of locking in Netscape Navigator to specific IP addresses using the Proxy setting within the browser, there was a question as to whether you could enter an unlimited number of url's. Well, I can tell you that in the 16-bit version of Navigator 3.x, you are limited to the number of url's you can enter. I haven't counted the exact number of characters, but I have discovered that 3.x won't "remember" beyond a certain number of url's. It will accept you entering them. However, once you exit and then re-enter Navigator, you will find that it has "forgotten" the extra url's. I have added a note to this effect to the web pages that describe how to lock-in Navigator using Glen's method. For those using the 16-bit version of 3.x, if you can, upgrade to the 4.x version, as it does not have this limitation. For more information, see: http://northville.lib.mi.us/tech/lockin.htm Andrew Mutch Northville District Library Northville, MI From rharrison at Exchange.FULLERTON.EDU Fri Nov 14 14:15:28 1997 From: rharrison at Exchange.FULLERTON.EDU (Harrison, Roger) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: here's how: to accurately filter web4lib using MS Outlook's Inbox Assistant Message-ID: I don't know if this has been submitted to the list before, but even if so, I'm sure it could bear repeating. I was having a problem with how Outlook's Inbox Assistant dealt with messages from web4lib, because they don't show up with a unique TO: or FROM:. The FROM: is always the individual sender, and the TO: is "Multiple recipients of list," which also matches CDROMLAN and many others. But if you create an entry in your Personal Address Book with a display name of "Multiple recipients of list" and an address of web4lib@library.berkeley.edu and select that entry as the FROM: when creating the rule, it seems to work. Roger Harrison P.O. Box 4150 Library Network Mgr. Fullerton, CA 92834-4150 Cal State Fullerton Voice: 714-278-2666 University Library Fax: 714-278-2439 mailto:rharrison@fullerton.edu http://www.library.fullerton.edu/people/rharrison/ From narnett at verity.com Fri Nov 14 14:29:21 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971114192921.01338dc4@verity.com> At 08:36 AM 11/14/97 -0800, Booher, Craig wrote: >I find myself constantly >reminding staff in our organization that relevancy ranking is an inexact >science (art?) at this stage of its development in the web arena. The bad ones are exact because they only do Boolean searching; the good ones are inexact because they use fuzzy logic. The smarter the search engines get, the less exact the relevancy will be. This is the nature of information. Ask the editor of a newspaper why a particular news article belongs on the front page (i.e., is considered highly relevant to the paper's target audience) and you won't get a set of logical rules; relevancy ranking is a matter of opinion. Fundamentally, subject-based searching of text, when done well, is subjective. Further, relevancy should have to do with much more than the subject. Sometimes a document is relevant because it is well-written, authoritative, provocative, humorous, popular or has other qualities that have nothing to do with the subject. Only the last of those -- popular -- is likely to be measurable by automation. >For example, which >academic schools of thought were used as a basis or springboard for the >current implementation? The basis of default behaviors is traditional information retrieval -- balancing precision and recall. One big problem is that some people, such as executives, don't want to see a single false positive (an irrelevant result), but they don't mind if you miss quite a few potentially relevant documents (false negatives); while others, such as patent lawyers and other professional researchers, are intolerant of an engine that misses anything -- they'll sift through false positives. >Can we see the mathematical development which >led to the conclusion that this particular relevancy ranking approach >was valid and optimal for the search engine and knowledge domain? In >short, I'd like some theoretical basis and references to the literature >which I can use to assess whether I, as a consumer, am comfortable with >your relevancy ranking implementation. There are many components to our relevancy ranking, which are combined by default with an accrue operation, a fuzzy logic operator that means essentially "the more, the better." We're also now optionally offering a "sum" operator, which is similar, but not fuzzy. >I would disagree with you when you say that "the algorithm's goal" not >the algorithm itself is the "useful information." The goal of all these >algorithms is to present the "most relevant" information first. HOW >they determined what is "most relevant" is the useful information a >consumer needs to know in order to assess the usefulness of the tool. >(Again, I don't need to know the exact code, but I do require an >understanding of the theoretical foundation for the algorithm.) I think we're saying the same thing; you may have said it better! >Second, I was interested in your concluding comments wherein you >indicated Verity was recognizing the inadequacy of applying relevancy >ranking to large volumes of disparate information (at least that was my >interpretation or your remarks). Instead, you are attempting to place >search results into some sort of context and then apply relevancy >ranking within the context. Is that context explicitly determined by >the user, or somehow "calculated" by the computer? Bo th; either. Our shipping products can dynamically cluster documents by comparing automatically extracted features; this often helps discover sub-topics within a search results list. Among the search services, Excite offers something similar. Future products will be able to use pre-existing taxonomies, integrating them with search results. There's a lot of value in presenting people with search results in a familiar context, especially in a familiar space, literally, since humans have excellent spatial recollection, which is the basis of a great deal of semiotics (lead articles in newspapers almost always start in the upper left corner; we have little trouble remember such things). >In either case, I'd >be interested in learning more about this approach (and as you can >probably surmise from my earlier remarks, can you identify any published >literature on which you are basing your determination? :-)) I don't closely follow the academic literature; I almost never see any informed articles in the trade or popular press. In fact, I pay little attention to the IR and AI communities that gave birth to Verity. I'm much more interested in learning from librarians and publishers so that we build products based on an understanding of, and compromise among the values of the three -- technology, library science and publishing. I would hope that Verity can build tools that are as good a compromise among these as Yahoo! is as a service. Narrowly viewed from any one of the domains, Yahoo! isn't so great, but as a packaging of the three, it's a success. Nick -- Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From harter at indiana.edu Fri Nov 14 16:26:19 1997 From: harter at indiana.edu (Steve Harter) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19971114192921.01338dc4@verity.com> Message-ID: > The bad ones are exact because they only do Boolean searching; the good ones > are inexact because they use fuzzy logic. The smarter the search engines > get, the less exact the relevancy will be. This is the nature of > information. Ask the editor of a newspaper why a particular news article > belongs on the front page (i.e., is considered highly relevant to the > paper's target audience) and you won't get a set of logical rules; relevancy > ranking is a matter of opinion. Fundamentally, subject-based searching of > text, when done well, is subjective. Further, relevancy should have to do > with much more than the subject. Sometimes a document is relevant because > it is well-written, authoritative, provocative, humorous, popular or has > other qualities that have nothing to do with the subject. Only the last of > those -- popular -- is likely to be measurable by automation. > There is a large theoretical and empirical literature in information science on the nature of relevance. In recent years there has been much research in user-based relevance (also called psychological, cognitive, or situational relevance), in which the kinds of criteria described by Nick, among many others, have been found to describe real people in real situations. I'm not sure I agree that only popularity offers the potential of automation, however. For example, the journal in which an article is published can be an important factor in determining relevance, as can the department or school with which the author is affiliated. With some effort, schools and journals (and web sites?) could be weighted by perceived prestige, it would seem. > The basis of default behaviors is traditional information retrieval -- > balancing precision and recall. One big problem is that some people, such > as executives, don't want to see a single false positive (an irrelevant > result), but they don't mind if you miss quite a few potentially relevant > documents (false negatives); while others, such as patent lawyers and other > professional researchers, are intolerant of an engine that misses anything > -- they'll sift through false positives. > This does not seem like such a large problem to me. Why not have the user characterize the search wanted, such as (a) comprehensive (high recall), (b) striking a reasonable balance between recall and precision; and (c) precise and accurate (high precision). Then conduct the search by employing the algorithm designed to meet this goal. In other words, instead of having one algorithm try to fit all situations, design three or five of them to meet a range of goals. And make the user's goal determine the ranking and retrieval algorithm used. > >Can we see the mathematical development which > >led to the conclusion that this particular relevancy ranking approach > >was valid and optimal for the search engine and knowledge domain? In > >short, I'd like some theoretical basis and references to the literature > >which I can use to assess whether I, as a consumer, am comfortable with > >your relevancy ranking implementation. > > There are many components to our relevancy ranking, which are combined by > default with an accrue operation, a fuzzy logic operator that means > essentially "the more, the better." We're also now optionally offering a > "sum" operator, which is similar, but not fuzzy. > Amen. But for me it doesn't have to be a theoretical basis but at least what ad hoc criteria are used. The above statement, which refers to "many (undefined) components," doesn't really help. > > >In either case, I'd > >be interested in learning more about this approach (and as you can > >probably surmise from my earlier remarks, can you identify any published > >literature on which you are basing your determination? :-)) > > I don't closely follow the academic literature; I almost never see any > informed articles in the trade or popular press. For interested folks, there is a ton of such literature, dating back to the middle fifties. Most of the algorithms suggested and tested are ad hoc rather than rooted in theory. They are also in partial contradiction with one another. And there is no theory explaining how the criteria used should be combined to form a single ranking. Can't the search engines at least list the various criteria that are employed in their algorithm, without revealing the exact way in which they are operationalized? That would be extremely helpful. Steve Stephen P. Harter, School of Library and Information Science Indiana University Voice: (812) 855-5113 Bloomington, IN 47405 Fax: (812) 855-6166 From perez at opac.osl.state.or.us Fri Nov 14 18:12:09 1997 From: perez at opac.osl.state.or.us (Ernest Perez) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:07 2005 Subject: here's how: to accurately filter web4lib using MS Outlook's Inbox References: Message-ID: <346CDAC9.162EDB62@opac.osl.state.or.us> Roger Harrison writes: > I was having a problem with how Outlook's Inbox Assistant dealt with > messages from web4lib, because they don't show up with a unique TO: or > FROM:. The FROM: is always the individual sender, and the TO: is > "Multiple recipients of list," which also matches CDROMLAN and many > others. > I'm not sure about Outlook's Inbox Assistant, but my Netscape Communicator 4.0 filters and sends all web4lib material to a designated folder. Simple rule logic is TO: contains "web4lib" since that is a unique string within that field. This is "contains" rather than "equals," if the Inbox Assistant can apply that operator. Cheers, -ernest Ernest Perez//Oregon State Library//perez@opac.state.or.us//503-378-4243 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Sometimes you have to grab the bull by the tail and face the situation." - W.C. Fields From E-WIGG at EVANSTON.LIB.IL.US Sat Nov 15 14:27:30 1997 From: E-WIGG at EVANSTON.LIB.IL.US (Edward Wigg) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:08 2005 Subject: inconsistencies web search performance Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971115132723.00a38db0@ellington.evanston.lib.il.us> At 01:37 PM 11/14/97 -0800, Steve Harter wrote in response to Nick Arnett : >> The bad ones are exact because they only do Boolean searching; the good ones >> are inexact because they use fuzzy logic. The smarter the search engines >> get, the less exact the relevancy will be. This is the nature of >> information. Ask the editor of a newspaper why a particular news article >> belongs on the front page (i.e., is considered highly relevant to the >> paper's target audience) and you won't get a set of logical rules; relevancy >> ranking is a matter of opinion. Fundamentally, subject-based searching of >> text, when done well, is subjective. Further, relevancy should have to do >> with much more than the subject. Sometimes a document is relevant because >> it is well-written, authoritative, provocative, humorous, popular or has >> other qualities that have nothing to do with the subject. Only the last of >> those -- popular -- is likely to be measurable by automation. >> > >There is a large theoretical and empirical literature in information >science on the nature of relevance. In recent years there has been much >research in user-based relevance (also called psychological, cognitive, or >situational relevance), in which the kinds of criteria described by Nick, >among many others, have been found to describe real people in real >situations.... What this skirts, without explicit stating it, is the idea that relevance is subjective and subject to change, differing between people and for an individual on different occasions. The frequency and pattern of the occurrence of search terms within documents may indeed be one of the factors that helps determine relevance, but a search engine that merely does this one form of ranking, without explicitly stating it, then claims in grand terms that the results are "ranked by relevance" is being unhelpful or misleading. It is possible to conceive of gathering information from a searcher to do some more sophisticated form of relevancy ranking, either by tracking which links are followed or by explicitly asking for input from the user. This might currently be impossibly cumbersome for web search engines, but what concerns me even more the privacy issue: to do a good job the engine would need to know quite a lot about you that would be valuable information to many gatherers of personal information. A user conducted search may be more convenient than a reference interview followed by a search helped by a reference librarian, but at least you can be fairly certain that the reference librarian is not selling information about your preference in dog food to Ralston Purina! Edward. From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Sat Nov 15 14:30:59 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:08 2005 Subject: Alta Vista Varying search results (fwd) Message-ID: I thought the group may be interested in this reply to a query I sent Alta Vista on its widely varying search results. Joe Barker, Internet/WWW Program Coordinator The Teaching Library, U C Berkeley ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:52:27 -0800 (PST) From: Alta Vista Support To: Joe Barker Subject: Re: Varying search results We are currently in the process of doing a system upgrade. Things will return to normal shortly. Thank you for your patience. AV Support On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Joe Barker wrote: > Can you explain why the same search submitted to A-V more than one time > usually results in a different number of records retrieved? > Almost any search will get different results. One only has to reclick > the SEARCH button a few times to see. > Many librarians across the country have observed this behavior from A-V > simple or advanced search. > Thanks, > Joe Barker > WWW Instruction Program Coordinator > The Teaching Library > University of California, Berkeley > > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Nov 17 07:57:20 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: HTML 4, etc. Message-ID: <01bcf358$56f8aa60$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> I just realized that I never saw this announced on W4L: HTML 4.0 recently passed from working draft status to proposed recommendation. If I'm reading http://www.w3.org/Press/HTML4-PR correctly, voting on its status as a recommendation should finish in mid- to late-December. I've heard from a couple of sources that the W3C will consider this the final version of HTML, with future developments happening in XML. There's also a first draft of CSS2 also: http://www.w3.org/Press/CSS2 Onward and upward. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From Terry.Kuny at xist.com Mon Nov 17 10:37:15 1997 From: Terry.Kuny at xist.com (Terry Kuny) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: [CONF] Digital Libraries '98 (June 23-26, 1998: Pittsburgh, PA) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971117103714.00ad08c0@nlc-bnc.ca> ******************************************** Digital Libraries '98 - The Third ACM Conference on Digital Libraries Pittsburgh, PA, USA, June 23-26, 1998 (Sponsored by ACM through SIGIR and SIGLINK) Digital libraries will likely figure amongst the most important and influential institutions of the 21st Century. Long a dream, the early prognostications of visionaries such as Bush, Nelson, and Licklider of large-scale, sustainable digital libraries are progressively becoming a reality with the initiation of major DL projects at national levels. Future digital libraries will not only improve access to the world's knowledge dramatically, but also act as 'collaboratories' out of which new knowledge is crafted and refined by widely-distributed teams and organizations -- knowledge that right from conception is fully interconnected with previous work. But daunting challenges stand in the way. No amount of rhetoric can finesse the plethora of thorny issues that need addressing. While visions are cheap -- useable, scaleable, sustainable, and interoperable solutions demand intensive collaboration from researchers in many disciplines, and substantial commitments from imaginative and resourceful practitioners. Olympian though they may be, digital library initiatives will not escape the agonizing ground-level tradeoffs that characterize any large-scale practical endeavor. So what are the key outstanding problems? How can we best begin to address them? What are the major competing paradigms that claim value and vie for our support? How can the digital library community work together in synergetic ways, and avoid the endless fragmentation and oneupmanship that so often afflicts rapidly evolving fields? At Digital Libraries '98, we will build on the foundation laid by earlier conferences in this series, as well as the hard work of the many individuals who helped bring our field to fruition. We will strive to unite all players that have a stake in the future of digital libraries: librarians, computer scientists, social scientists, administrators, ... academic, government and commercial organizations, ... tool builders, evaluators and users. We will continue to foster their participation as on-going members of the digital library community. Thus we invite you to participate and contribute to this very important field. Please send us your ideas for planning, your papers and others proposals for participation -- and most of all for DL98 -- be there! Held immediately following Hypertext '98, Digital Libraries '98 will provide a common setting for researchers, practicing professionals and students to share experiences and to present results about system construction, human-computer interaction, hypertext, information retrieval, digital librarianship, digital identifiers and many other topics related to the field of digital libraries. The conference attracts distinguished attendees from a diverse range of fields. Digital Libraries '98 will provide a forum for presentation and discussion of exciting and original developments in digital libraries through a variety of formats. The Proceedings of Digital Libraries '98 will be published by ACM Press. ******************************************** TECHNICAL PROGRAM Digital Libraries '98 will provide a common setting for researchers and practicing professionals to share experiences and to compare notes about authoring, publishing, system construction, human-computer interaction, copyright, digital libraries, and electronic journals, evaluation, and many other topics Attendees come with backgrounds in computing, library science, psychology, literature, sociology, engineering, law, medicine -- many different fields.We invite your participation. Digital Libraries '98 will provide a forum for presentation and discussion of exciting and original developments in digital libraries through several formats: papers, panels, short papers, demonstrations, posters, tutorials, and workshops Topics for the conference include any topic relevant to the field of Digital Libraries. Possible topics include, but are not limited to: DL projects, user experience, DL technologies, search engines, name spaces, indexing, collection development and management, user support, digital librarianship, requirements for DLs, economics of DLs, lessons learned, collaborative libraries, multimedia collections and many others. ******************************************** CRITICAL DATES 15 Jan 98: Papers due, Proposals for Panels, Workshops, and Tutorials due. 31 Mar 98: Notification of acceptance for Papers, Panels, Workshops, and Tutorials. 20 Apr 98 Short Papers due. Proposals for Posters and Demos due. 30 Apr 98: Final versions of accepted papers due. 7 May 98: Notification of acceptance for Short Papers, Posters, and Demos ******************************************** PAPERS Technical papers present integrative reviews or original reports of substantive new work in areas that are theoretical (e.g., models), empirical (experiments, case studies,...), or implementation-oriented (new systems). Papers should provide a clear, concise message to the audience, situate the work within the field, cite related work and clearly indicate the innovative aspects of the work and its contribution to the field. Submissions: Papers must be written in English and in no case should exceed 10 single-spaced, double-columned pages. Submissions must be formatted using the specifications at the DL98 web site (www.ks.com/DL98). Please submit 3 copies of the paper and one copy of a cover page. On the cover page include the title, the author name(s), and the author affiliation(s), contact information (mailing address, telephone, FAX, Email), an abstract of about 200 words, and several topical keywords. The title, author names and affiliations, the abstract, and the keywords should also appear on the first page of the paper itself. Submissions: received by 15 January 1998 to Robert M. Akscyn, RD2 213A Evans Road, Export, PA 15632 USA ******************************************** PANELS Panels represent an opportunity for lively exploration of current issues and emerging opportunities. Panels provide an interactive forum that will engage the panelists and audience in lively discussion of important and often controversial issues. Submissions: Proposals (approx. 1500 words) should be emailed to rma@ks.com and outline the issues and points that will be addressed in the panel or briefing. The proposal must also contain the title of the panel, name(s), affiliation(s), and complete mailing address(es) (including phone, fax, and Email) of the participants Submissions: received by 15 January 1998 to rma@ks.com ******************************************** SHORT PAPERS Short papers represent late-breaking research or interesting results that do not justify a full paper. Short papers can be on topics similar to technical papers, but will only appear as extended abstracts in the proceedings (max 2 pages). Short papers will also be given modest presentation time (10 minutes) at the conference. Because of their limited length, extra care must be given to presenting a single clear idea, and why it is important. Submissions: Short papers must be written in English and in no case should exceed 2 single-spaced, double-columned pages. The paper must include a title, author names, affiliation, and email address of one contact person.Submissions must be formatted using the specifications at the DL98 web site (www.ks.com/DL98). Submissions: received by 20 April 1998 to Robert M. Akscyn, RD2 213A Evans Road, Export, PA 15632 USA ******************************************** DEMONSTRATIONS Demonstrations allow attendees to get first-hand views of innovative technology and applications and talk informally with system developers and authors. Presenters should be individuals who have been directly involved with the development of the system, and who are aware of the novel ideas embodied by their system. Submissions: Submit a proposal by email describing the planned demonstration. Information about the demonstrations will not appear in the Proceedings, but will be described in a handout at the conference. The proposal should include a description of noteworthy and distinguishing ideas or approaches your demo will illustrate; an explanation of how your demo will illustrate these ideas or approaches; information about the person(s) who will present the demo; and a 100-word summary for inclusion in a program description. [Tables, electricity, and possibly network connectivity will be provided -- but you must bring your own equipment.] Please provide the following cover information: the title, the name and affiliation of the author(s), and complete address (including telephone, fax, email) for the author to whom correspondence should be addressed. Submissions: send email to be received by 20 April 1998 to rma@ks.com ******************************************** POSTERS Poster presentations enable researchers to present late-breaking results, significant work in progress, or work that is best communicated through conversation. Poster sessions let conference attendees exchange ideas one-on-one with authors, and let authors discuss their work in detail with those attendees most deeply interested in the same topic. Submissions: Submit an extended abstract of at most 1000 words emphasizing the problem, what was done, and why the work is important. Please also provide cover information: the title, the name and affiliation of the author(s), and complete address (including telephone, fax, email) for the author to whom correspondence should be addressed. Submissions: send email to be received by 20 April 1998 to rma@ks.com ******************************************** TUTORIALS Tutorials precede the conference and allow attendees to become familiar with basic principles of the field, to receive technical training in a DL-related area, or to explore advanced topics in depth. They are taught by experts in the area and cover topics at beginning, intermediate and advanced levels. Submissions: Proposals should include a 200-word abstract, a topical outline of the course content, and describe the course objectives, intended audience, length (half- or full-day), facilities required, and the instructor's qualifications. Proposals will be evaluated on the basis of the instructor's qualifications for teaching the proposed course and the contribution of the course to the overall conference program. Descriptions of the courses will be published in conference programs, but will not appear in the Conference Proceedings. Proposers are encouraged to contact the tutorial chairman to discuss their planned proposals. Submissions: send email to be received by 31 March 1998 to rma@ks.com ******************************************** WORKSHOPS Workshops provide an opportunity for a group of up to 20 participants to discuss issues in both research and applied areas -- from one half day to two daysin duration. Workshop attendance is normally by invitation, based on the attendee's response to a call for workshop participation. In general, the organizer drafts a call describing the workshop, and invites participants based on submitted position papers. The organizer should also develop an agenda in advance of the event. Keep in mind that workshops are different from paper sessions in that ideas are not just to be presented; they are to be discussed in depth. Submission: Submit a proposal containing: an outline of the theme and goals of the workshop, its relevance to the field and the intended audience; a description of the activities planned for the workshop, including duration, number of participants, selection process, workshop agenda and other pre- or post-workshop activities; and a brief description of each organizer's background, including past experience with workshops. Submissions: send email to be received by 31 March 1998 to rma@ks.com ******************************************** Conference Committee Conference Chair Robert M. Akscyn Knowledge Systems rma@ks.com Program Chair Ian Witten Professor of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ ihw@rimu.cs.waikato.ac.nz Associate Conference Chair David L. Hicks Knowledge Systems hicks@ks.com Publications Chair Frank Shipman Texas A&M shipman@csdl.cs.tamu.edu Panels Chair David M. Levy Xerox PARC dlevy@parc.xerox.com ******************************************** Program Committee Maristella Agosti, U Padua (Italy) agosti@dei.unipd.it Robert B. Allen, Bellcore rba@bellcore.com William Arms, CNRI warms@cnri.reston.va.us Bill Birmingham, Michigan wpb@umich.edu Ann Bishop, U Illinois abishop@uiuc.edu Mic Bowman, Transarc Corp mic@transarc.com Michael Buckland, UC Berkeley buckland@sims.berkeley.edu Joseph Busch, Getty Information Inst jbusch@getty.edu Steve Cousins, Xerox cousins@cs.stanford.edu Sally Jo Cunningham, U Waikato (NZ) sallyjo@cs.waikato.ac.nz Jim Davis, Xerox jdavis@parc.xerox.com Dieter Fellner, Bonn U (Germany) fellner@cs.uni-bonn.de Raya Fidel, U Washington fidelr@u.washington.edu Edward A. Fox, Virginia Tech fox@vt.edu James French, Virginia University french@cs.virginia.edu Richard Furuta, Texas A&M University furuta@cs.tamu.edu Luis Gravano, Columbia gravano@cs.columbia.edu Linda Hill, UC Santa Barbara lhill@alexandria.ucsb.edu Susan Hockey, U Alberta (Canada) susan.hockey@ualberta.ca Nancy Ide, Vassar ide@cs.vassar.edu Carl Lagoze, Cornell lagoze@cs.cornell.edu John J. Leggett, Texas A&M University leggett@cs.tamu.edu David M. Levy, Xerox dlevy@parc.xerox.com Gary Marchionini, U Maryland march@oriole.umd.edu Catherine Marshall, Xerox marshall@parc.xerox.com Alexa McCray, Nat Lib of Medicine mccray@nlm.nih.gov Cliff McKnight, U Loughborough (UK) c.mcknight@lboro.ac.uk Desai Narasimhalu, NUS (Singapore) desai@iss.nus.sg Craig Nevill-Manning, Stanford cnevill@dna.stanford.edu Thierry Pun, U Geneva (Switzerland) thierry.pun@cui.unige.ch Edie Rasmussen, U Pittsburgh erasmus@sis.pitt.edu Pamela Samuelson, UC Berkeley pam@sims.berkeley.edu Bruce R. Schatz, University of Illinois schatz@uiuc.edu Terence Smith, UC Santa Barbara smithtr@cs.ucsb.edu Amanda Spink, N. Texas spink@lis.admin.unt.edu Scott Stevens, CMU sms@cs.cmu.edu Shigeo Sugimoto, U Library Information Science (Japan) sugimoto@ulis.ac.jp Roger Thompson, OCLC roger_thompson@oclc.org Nancy van House, UC Berkeley vanhouse@sims.berkeley.edu Tom Wilson, U Sheffield (UK) t.d.wilson@shef.ac.uk Ian H. Witten, U Waikato (NZ) ihw@waikato.ac.nz ******************************************** If you would like to be a member of the DL98 conference team, we would heartily welcome your help. There are many opportunities to contribute to the success of the conference. Your help would be appreciated. ************Version of 15Nov97************** From danforth at tiac.net Mon Nov 17 12:01:49 1997 From: danforth at tiac.net (Isabel Danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19971117120149.0085e4c0@sunspot.tiac.net> Is there a valid means of changing background color, for just one cell of a table? The following seems to work on my win95 PC under both netscape 3 and communicator. However under netscape 2, the background color does not change at all, and worse, is that under netscape 3 on another Win95 PC, IT only changed for the lines of text within the cell, not for the full 'box' itself. The actual page (it is only a test page) is at: htt://www.tiac.net/users/wethpl The code involved is:

books and the world Welcome to the Wethersfield Public Library

Wethersfield Public Library
515 Silas Deane Highway
Wethersfield, Ct. 06109
phone: 860-721-2985
fax: 860-721-2991
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bennettt at am.appstate.edu Mon Nov 17 13:18:49 1997 From: bennettt at am.appstate.edu (Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Internet tutorials References: <346B2E2F.733E@popi.net> Message-ID: <34708A7F.DB1B950A@am.appstate.edu> The URL below has a list of tutorials and guides about the internet and also the WEB in specific. http://www.fis.utoronto.ca/internet/guides.htm Thomas Bennett ps The link labels are About the World Wide Web Accessing The Internet By E-Mail BBN Timeline BCK2SKOL Becoming a Web-Head Beginners Central Beginner's Guide to Downloading A Brief History of the Internet Canadian Internet Handbook Citing Computer Documents Commonly asked "New Internet User" Questions Connected: An Internet Encyclopedia EARN Guide to Network Resource Tools EFF's (Extended) Guide to the Internet E-Mail Discussion Groups/Lists: Guide & Resources Entering the World-Wide Web: A Guide to Cyberspace Everything E-Mail Gale Guide to the Internet Glossary of Internet Terms A Glossary of World Wide Web Terms and Acronyms Guide to LISTSERVS Help-Net Archives Help Web: a Guide to getting started on the Internet Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet Hobbes Internet Timeline How to find and use a Mailing List How to use Web Search Engines Hypertext Handbook of Words Information about the Internet (UWaterloo.ca) Information Highway: Entrance Ahead Internet 101 Internet Companion 2nd ed. Internet Frequently Asked Questions Internet Glossary Internet Guides and Documentation Internet Help Internet Help Desk Internet Information Center The Internet Language Dictionary Internet Learner's Page Internet Resources Newsletter Internet Roadmap Internet Starter Kit for Windows Internet Style Guides Internet Tourbus Internet Tutorials Internet Users' Glossary Internet Web Text Introducing the Internet Introduction to the Internet (UMich SILS) Learn About the Internet Library of Congress Internet Guides and Tutorials Page Multilingual Internet Glossary Project Netscape Tutorial Newbie Help Links NewbieNet CyberCourse Newbie's Guides for the New and Old User The Online World Handbook The Scout Toolkit Searching the Web: Systematic Overview of Indexes Surfing the Internet: an Introduction Tour the Internet Understanding the Internet (Strangelove) Understanding the Internet (Nova U.) Unofficial Internet Book List The Webmaster's Guide to Search Engines and Directories Whole Internet Catalog World Wide Web FAQ The World-Wide Web: Origins and Beyond Zen and the Art of the Internet This page is maintained by Ken Lavin It was last updated: 10/31/97 16:21:49 Mignon Morse wrote: > Hello, > > Would someone recommend some good tutorials on the internet that teach > > internet? > > Thanks. > > -- > ************************** > MIgnon Morse > Library Director > Smith Public Library > 800 Thomas Street > Wylie, TX 75098 > 972-442-7566 > 972-442-4075 (fax) > http://www.wylie.tx.us/library/ -- ;/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ ;/* */ ;/* Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University */ ;/* bennettt@am.appstate.edu Belk Library */ ;/* bennetttm@appstate.edu Systems And Automation Team */ ;/* bennett@wncln200.lib.unca.edu Computer Consultant II */ ;/* Office: 704 262 2795 Cellular: 704 266 3743 */ ;/* http://Whitewolf.library.appstate.edu */ ;/* */ ;/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ If it works, don't fix it! From rodrigue.real at uqam.ca Mon Nov 17 13:47:09 1997 From: rodrigue.real at uqam.ca (Real Rodrigue) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell References: <3.0.4.32.19971117120149.0085e4c0@sunspot.tiac.net> Message-ID: <347090FC.96882A83@uqam.ca> Isabel Danforth wrote: > Is there a valid means of changing background color, for just one cell of a > table? > > The following seems to work on my win95 PC under both netscape 3 and > communicator. However under netscape 2, the background color does not > change at all, and worse, is that under netscape 3 on another Win95 PC, IT > only changed for the lines of text within the cell, not for the full 'box' > itself. > > The actual page (it is only a test page) is at: > htt://www.tiac.net/users/wethpl > > The code involved is: > > >

alt="books and the world "> > Welcome to the Wethersfield Public Library
>

> > > > > > > > >
> > > > Wethersfield Public Library >
> 515 Silas Deane Highway >
> Wethersfield, Ct. 06109 >
> phone: 860-721-2985 >
> fax: 860-721-2991 >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library > danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team > http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your code looks OK to me. I had a look at it with NetScape Communicator 4.03 on a Macintosh. But, if I remember correctly, NetScape 2 did not have the facility of viewing specific table colors: I think it came only with NetScape 3. -- ______________________ Real Rodrigue, bibliothecaire | ooo ooo ooo | Services informatises | ooo ooo ooo | Service des bibliotheques | ooo ooo ooo | Universite du Quebec a Montreal (UQAM) | ooo ooo ooo | Tel: 514-987-3000 #4554 | ooo | Fax: 514-987-7787 | ooo | | ooo | rodrigue.real@uqam.ca |____________________| http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/g17176/Real.html From janders at camino.delmar.edu Mon Nov 17 16:34:46 1997 From: janders at camino.delmar.edu (Judy Anderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Question about Full Armor Message-ID: <3470B876.7BF0@camino.delmar.edu> We're a community college library that also supports a student technology center. Has anyone used Full Armor [www.fullarmor.com] for locking down their PCs? Any problems with it? -- Judy Anderson janders@camino.delmar.edu (512) 886 1951 Del Mar College Library From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Nov 17 14:27:06 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell Message-ID: <01bcf38e$ca924360$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Isabel Danforth To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 1:35 PM Subject: color change for one cell >Is there a valid means of changing background color, for just one cell of a >table? > >The following seems to work on my win95 PC under both netscape 3 and >communicator. However under netscape 2, the background color does not >change at all, and worse, is that under netscape 3 on another Win95 PC, IT >only changed for the lines of text within the cell, not for the full 'box' >itself. > >The actual page (it is only a test page) is at: > htt://www.tiac.net/users/wethpl > > >The code involved is: > > >

alt="books and the world "> >Welcome to the Wethersfield Public Library
>

> > > > >
... HTML 3.2 does not include a BGCOLOR attribute for table cell elements, but HTML 4.0 does. Regardless of your validation status, Netscape 2 doesn't support that attribute, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn tht Netscape 3 does it with some flakiness (but when in doubt, validate). BTW, color hex codes are expected to begin with a '#' character. That's probably not a problem here, but it could conceivably confuse some browsers. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Nov 17 14:40:06 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell Message-ID: <01bcf390$9b10a210$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> Yrs Trly shot off his big mouth and said: -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dowling To: web4lib Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 2:27 PM Subject: Re: color change for one cell >HTML 3.2 does not include a BGCOLOR attribute for table cell elements, but >HTML 4.0 does... Duh, the previous draft had TD BGCOLOR snuck in there. Kinda surprising, given the way the rest of HTML 4.0 treats presentation attributes. Sure enough, it got tossed from the November 7th draft : Thomas "Deprecated" Dowling From bork at plb.de Mon Nov 17 15:19:26 1997 From: bork at plb.de (H. Bork) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell In-Reply-To: <01bcf38e$ca924360$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: >...HTML 3.2 does not include a BGCOLOR attribute for table >cell elements, but HTML 4.0 does. >Regardless of your validation status, >Netscape 2 doesn't support that attribute, >and I wouldn't be surprised to learn >tht Netscape 3 does it with some flakiness >(but when in doubt, validate)... had been surprised otherwise: Netscape 3.0 does support BGCOLOR for cell elements and so does the gold editor, regards -- hal :-) ---------------------------------------------------------- bork@plb.de From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Nov 17 11:57:08 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. Message-ID: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> For my internet site, Not Just Cows, I have been using the free counter provided by pagecount.com. It is shwoing some intereseting statistics. In the last 3000 hits, the majority of users are uisng Windows 95. The most used browser is Netscape 3.0 with all versions of Internet Explorer coming in second and Netscape 4 coming in at third. This raises the following question in my mind: 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? 2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ -- From meyerjk at eou.edu Mon Nov 17 15:47:40 1997 From: meyerjk at eou.edu (Jennifer Meyer) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: WinFrame v. WinCenter Message-ID: <199711172047.MAA15235@eou.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 289 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971117/10c19d77/attachment.bat From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Mon Nov 17 15:46:24 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: Bill, Good questions--and relevent--I just talked to a patron today who has a Pentium 166 with 32 MB RAM running Win 3.1 with no web browser! It's like having a bus engine in a Pinto with no wheels. I think questions 1 and 2 can be directly traced to the technical "familiarity" or competence of the users. Think about it, the majority of home users are using what came with their computers. Corporate users are using what their tech staff have last loaded. Unless you follow the "computer" scene, can you really be expected to know what the newest and best is? Are you going to shell out money for the lasest bells and whistles, if what you have now works fine? But IE is free you say--true--but you have to know how to download and install--OK--I know, really basic but from the people I talk to on a regular basis, you might as well ask them to rewire their motherboard. They'll continue to use what they have until it becomes an obstacle(Netscape 2.0) or someone makes a big splash with a "revolutionary" new browser--or they buy a new computer(Answer to #3). On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > For my internet site, Not Just Cows, I have been using the free counter > provided by pagecount.com. It is shwoing some intereseting statistics. > > In the last 3000 hits, the majority of users are uisng Windows 95. The > most used browser is Netscape 3.0 with all versions of Internet Explorer > coming in second and Netscape 4 coming in at third. > > This raises the following question in my mind: > > 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? > > 2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? > > 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? > -- > Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) > SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 > E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu > AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 > Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 > Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ > Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ > LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ > -- > From wcj1 at cornell.edu Mon Nov 17 16:11:26 1997 From: wcj1 at cornell.edu (Bill Jenkins) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: >1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? > >2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? This is an easy one. Let's say I call up my Mom. "Mom, what version of Netscape are you using?" My mom's response, "What are you talking about?" Most people do not know what version of software are running nor do they care. If it works they use it. Also, it is kind of a foreign concept. When was the last time anyone had to upgade their mailbox so their postman could give them the latest, greatest, biggest catalog. >3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? When the old one breaks. BillJ From kiratoy at panix.com Mon Nov 17 16:21:50 1997 From: kiratoy at panix.com (Shawn J.P. West (BlackSheep)) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > For my internet site, Not Just Cows, I have been using the free counter > provided by pagecount.com. It is shwoing some intereseting statistics. > > In the last 3000 hits, the majority of users are uisng Windows 95. The > most used browser is Netscape 3.0 with all versions of Internet Explorer > coming in second and Netscape 4 coming in at third. > > This raises the following question in my mind: > > 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? Bugs and HUGE security holes with each version X.0 of both browsers. A lot of people come from places with Large IS departments that don't believe in putting stuff on early. But resource hoggs would be my first guess from end users i spoke to. > 2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? A lot of people still use Win 3.1 and also for reasons like ram and system resourdes it's more efficient. [ Netscape takes 25-30 megs of space on my mac and still likes more that 20 megs. ] [ IE likes more than 16 megs of ram to run with out crashing on my WINTEL ] > > 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? > -- I found that before 4.0 i would switch at the .01 or .02 point but now with all the security issues and new HTML i switch often to stay ahead. But if i did not build pages as long as the browser did frames what else do i need in terms of features [ may be javascript ] Web Builder: 7 of 9. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.kiratoy.com kiratoy@2600.com From krauss at crisny.org Mon Nov 17 16:19:50 1997 From: krauss at crisny.org (Stephanie Kraus) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Yet another Fortres question Message-ID: <3470B4F5.63C3E573@crisny.org> Web4libbers: A question was posed to me at a meeting regarding Fortres for which I had no answer so I now pose it the list for some answers (hopefully): Why do some (not all) machines (generally new PCs running Windows 95 at least 133mhz) slow down tremendously when Fortres is running. When Fortres is disabled the PC runs at normal pace. This has not happened to any of my machines but multiple libraries in my system have complained about it. Any thoughts? Thanks- Stephanie Kraus Head of Outreach & Internet Services Wm. K. Sanford Town Library From cnoah at cwmarsmail.cwmars.org Mon Nov 17 11:29:59 1997 From: cnoah at cwmarsmail.cwmars.org (Carolyn Noah) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <199711172124.QAA19281@cwmarsmail.cwmars.org> Good questions... > 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? Because newer versions, while adding utility, also use up lots more memory. If your computer is older and slower, that makes a difference. > 2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? Fear of ftp; lack of support for a change. Seems easy only if you do it regulary! > 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? When they upgrade their systems! Cheers! Carolyn Noah * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Carolyn Noah, Consultant Central Massachusetts Regional Library System 3 Salem Square, Worcester, MA 01608-2074 tel: 508 799-1697 fax: 508 799-1611 e-mail: cnoah@cwmarsmail.cwmars.org From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Nov 17 16:30:55 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. Message-ID: <01bcf3a0$16a65e10$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> >This raises the following question in my mind: > >1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? > >2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? The most likely answers are inertia and system requirements. Upgrading a browser takes a certain amount of effort; some people don't think it's worth it. Also, every generation requires more disk space and memory than its predecessor. If you don't have the space to load it, you stay with the earlier version. Then there are issues of personal preference when a program changes. For example, I've heard some people say that they'll never give up Netscape 3 in favor of Netscape 4: they just don't like the revised interface. > >3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? >-- Perhaps when a critical mass of the pages they visit start using (or relying on) features not available in the older browser version. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From casummerhill at librarylrc.uams.edu Mon Nov 17 16:49:25 1997 From: casummerhill at librarylrc.uams.edu (Charles A. Summerhill) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. Message-ID: <00cc01bcf3a2$ac390200$2f0b1e90@liblrc-ntwkmngr.uams.edu> >For my internet site, Not Just Cows, I have been using the free counter >provided by pagecount.com. It is shwoing some intereseting statistics. >This raises the following question in my mind: >1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? It takes hours to download the latest versions of Netscape and/or Internet Explorer. Some people pay per hour for their access, or have better things to do (gasp!). >2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? I would argue that Netscape v2.0 should still be considered a very capable browser. But in addition to the answer for number 1, there is plain laziness. >3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? Probably when they get a new computer -- seriously. Same goes for upgrading to the latest copy of Microsoft Office or any other piece of software. --Charles A. Summerhill LibraryLRC Network Guy University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Mon Nov 17 17:38:16 1997 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. Message-ID: <3604167956.879777496@trunk.uoregon.edu> --Bill Drew wrote: > 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? > 2. Some are still using Netscape 1.0 and 2.0, why? > 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? It costs time and money to upgrade. Many people believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Time costs include yours as the workstation owner, the system support staff's (which needs to be trained on a new browser so they can answer questions, needs to investigate the new version before recommending upgrade to make sure that it doesn't have any nasty surprises, and may be the people doing the upgrade). Money costs include the sometimes substantial hardware upgrade needed to run a new version, the price of the software (we academics get NS and MSIE for free, but some people have to pay real money), etc. And many institutions have distribution mechanisms that leave software for a long time in the pipeline; for example, we press a CD every year with software for all our students -- since it was produced during the summer, it of course has NS 3 as the default browser. At this institution the average faculty member typically does a major software upgrade every 3 years (half of those upgrades because she bought a new computer). The average student or lab probably upgrades browsers about annually. So, we have a very large faculty/staff contingent still running NS 1.1 or NS 2.0, and our modal student browser is still NS 3.0. I think we're pretty typical. JQ Johnson office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator email: jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon phone: 1-541-346-1746 -3485 fax Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj/ From ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov Mon Nov 17 17:42:22 1997 From: ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov (Chizuko Kawamoto) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage Message-ID: I agree with what Andrew J. Mutch said. A fellow librarian recently asked me why she could not print from Internet. When I looked at her state-of-art Dell PC, she was using Mosaic beta version! She told me that's what her ISP gave her though I find it difficult to believe. I do all right in downloading files most of time, but recently I made a big mistake when I downloaded the latest IE. I forgot that I was using Voice E-Mail which only worked with IE 3.xx. Now I can't exchange e-mail with my folks in Japan. Maybe someone on this list can tell me how to reinstall IE 3.xx after installing IE 4.0? Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From rpasiczn at brain.uccs.edu Mon Nov 17 17:42:56 1997 From: rpasiczn at brain.uccs.edu (Robert W. Pasicznyuk) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Flute Query Message-ID: Using Flute, I created a script to accomplish 3 things: (1) Inactivity time out for Netscape. (2) Maximizes Netscape, if the user minimizes (3) Restarts Netscape, if the user exits. Sometimes, when the script calls the Netscape executable, Netscape opens something called a "Netscape's Hidden Frame." Does anyone know what the "hidden frame" is and how I can get it to stop. There's a sample from my flute script below, if that's a help. .............Example........... if (! (maxwindow({"Netscape "}) ) ) execute{"c:\program files\netscape\navigator\program\netscape.exe"}; maxwindow({"Netscape "}); ___________________________________________________________________________ Bob Pasicznyuk, Assistant Professor, /\ Sciences Subject Specialist University of Colorado, Colorado Springs / \/^\ (719) 262-3290; rpasiczn@mail.uccs.edu / \ \www.uccs.edu/~rpasiczn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Mon Nov 17 18:32:35 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage Message-ID: <01bcf3b1$15891e80$ae42b3c7@techserver> Well let me start by saying that there are IE4-compatible voice e-mail packages out there. You can also send them a .wav file... To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go into control panel, add remove programs and select Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, then download and install IE3. I believe this should work. Hope this helps Vladislav -----Original Message----- From: Chizuko Kawamoto To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Browser usage >I agree with what Andrew J. Mutch said. >A fellow librarian recently asked me why she could >not print from Internet. When I looked at her >state-of-art Dell PC, she was using Mosaic beta >version! She told me that's what her ISP gave her >though I find it difficult to believe. >I do all right in downloading files most of time, but >recently I made a big mistake when I downloaded the >latest IE. I forgot that I was using Voice E-Mail >which only worked with IE 3.xx. Now I can't >exchange e-mail with my folks in Japan. Maybe >someone on this list can tell me how to reinstall IE >3.xx after installing IE 4.0? > >Chizuko Kawamoto >ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov > From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Mon Nov 17 18:40:30 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: A lot of people have given the most common answers. I'll add these to chew on. On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > 3. When do users switch to the latest browser version? I'd imagine that a lot of folks using Not Just Cows are probably at academic sites and probably using public computers. For many of us maintaining those public computers, going to Win95 is/was/will be harrowing enough without adding software upgrades that aren't absolutely necessary. Those who can get by without changing software probably will do so until they're completely comfortable with Win95 in the public. Keep in mind, too, that some version upgrades are more major than others. Netscape 4 is radically different from Navigator 3. It doesn't even look the same. We're considering Navigator 4 for our public stations because e-mail is automatically unavailable with the Navigator only installation. before we do that, however, I'll have to make sure our librarians have it on their desks for a while (more for my sake than theirs). That means they hae to have computers capable of running it. *That*, of course, means money. I don't have to tell most of you how easy money is to come by in a public institution operating under a city and state administration that believes locking up young people is more important than educating them, but I digress. Finally, as far as upgrades go. I always have the latest that I can use, especially if the upgrade is free for the downloading. In the grand scheme of things, I am probably the exception. Many of us on this list probably qualify as "power users" or at least "semi-automatic". the average user just wants his/her information. Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov Mon Nov 17 19:28:32 1997 From: ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov (Chizuko Kawamoto) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply Message-ID: Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go into control panel, add remove programs and select Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, then download and install IE3... I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to face lots of questions I don't know which way to answer when I reinstall older version. I could do what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Mon Nov 17 19:47:21 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From what I know there is no way to run IE3 and IE4. From what I've seen even if you have the IE3 files, somehow it manages to run IE4 even if you run IE3 executable / files... I suspect that there is a setting in the registry. If anyone on the list knows of a better way, I'd love to hear it as I've had the problem before: I do web development and wanted to test my pages with both IE4 and IE3, however had to settle for Netscape and IE4, no ie3 :( Like I said, if anyone has a better idea, I am open to suggestions! :> .......................................................................... Vladislav S. Davidzon davidzon@tech-center.com Technology Assistant Farmington Community Library Phone: (248) 553-0300 Fax: (248) 553-3228 32737 W. 12 Mile Road Farmington Hills, MI 48334 "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us" - Oliver Wendell Holmes All opinions are my opinions only, and not those of any organizations I am associated with, unless otherwise specified. .......................................................................... On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Chizuko Kawamoto wrote: > Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: > To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go > into control panel, add remove programs and select > Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, > then download and install IE3... > > I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can > keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I > installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 > operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to > face lots of questions I don't know which way to > answer when I reinstall older version. I could do > what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE > allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have > lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till > the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. > > Chizuko Kawamoto > ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov > From Spober at manhattan.edu Mon Nov 17 21:57:27 1997 From: Spober at manhattan.edu (Stacy Pober) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: color change for one cell Message-ID: <2347FD655D7@mercury.rlc.manhattan.edu> I looked at your page and the color problem did occur in my browser (Netscape 3.01 Gold running on Windows for Workgroups 3.11) I have used a similar code on my pages and had no problems at all, so to see what your problem I downloaded the file locally and looked at the code in Notepad. Interestingly, in Notepad, there were little non-ascii codes at the end of each line of HTML. These appeared as solid rectangular boxes, one character in size. They are something like the unwanted code I get at the end of a document when I save a file in WordPerfect 5.1 in ASCII text. I hand-deleted the little boxes, resaved the document, and lo and behold, your color code for that TD table cell suddenly worked just fine. I suspect your word processor is inserting a non-visible character at every line break in your HTML. While I could not see it in View Document Source in Netscape, they were consistently there when the same file was opened in Notepad. Similar small graphics characters were at the *beginning* of each line when I opened the file in Microsoft Word. (Looked at it in WordPerfect for Windows but didn't see any problems there.) Try the same code typed in using another word processing program or a simple text editor such as Notepad on a Windows 3.1 system (hey, maybe the unwanted code is not a Win95 problem as such, but you never know...) Good luck, Stacy >Is there a valid means of changing background color, for just one >cell of a table? >The following seems to work on my win95 PC under both netscape 3 and >communicator. However under netscape 2, the background color does >not change at all, and worse, is that under netscape 3 on another >Win95 PC, IT only changed for the lines of text within the cell, not >for the full 'box' itself. >The actual page (it is only a test page) is at: >htt://www.tiac.net/users/wethpl ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Stacy Pober Internet: spober@manvax.cc.manhattan.edu Information Alchemist http://www.manhattan.edu/library/mclmenu.html Manhattan College Libraries Phone: 718-862-7980 Riverdale, NY 10471 Fax: 718-862-7995 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sdk at mindspring.com Mon Nov 17 22:31:08 1997 From: sdk at mindspring.com (Shirl Kennedy) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... Message-ID: <01bcf3d2$68cd54a0$e0f745cf@default> Read it and weep... Cyber Patrol deflects Yahoo rumor By Courtney Macavinta NEWS.COM November 17, 1997, 2:05 p.m. PT URL: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16471,00.html The latest online rumor today was that the Internet screening program Cyber Patrol was blocking access to the entire Yahoo directory, which by many counts is the most-visited site on the Net. The allegation sent Cyber Patrol into a frenzy. The company's product is designed to keep minors, and in some cases, workers, out of pornographic and other adult-oriented sites on the Net. The blocking program maker claims that unless a customer chooses to do so, its product doesn't block access to search engines or keyword search terms. For example, using Cyber Patrol's default settings, a surfer can see Yahoo descriptions for links to pornographic sites, as well as graphic ads that are displayed when a search term such as "sex" is typed in. But as of this morning, the Cyber Patrol's own mechanism that allows a person to search for blocked sites, CyberNOT, reported that Yahoo was, indeed, a site banned by the program, leading to confusion and cries of censorship by some on the Net. Yahoo reportedly links to 730,000 sites--including a sea of sexually explicit material. ---------- Shirl Kennedy Internet Waves columnist Information Today From David_Burt at filteringfacts.org Mon Nov 17 22:59:23 1997 From: David_Burt at filteringfacts.org (Filtering Facts) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... Message-ID: At 07:36 PM 11/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >Read it and weep... > >Cyber Patrol deflects Yahoo rumor >By Courtney Macavinta >NEWS.COM >November 17, 1997, 2:05 p.m. PT >URL: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16471,00.html > Unfortunately, your posting snipped out CyberPatrol's very plausible explanation: "Yahoo was listed in the "CyberNOT" search engine by mistake as a result of a separate project Cyber Patrol was commissioned to do for Prodigy. Cyber Patrol created a category called "search engines" specifically for the online service's own use. For example, Prodigy could allow its customers to block access to all or some search engines. But during the process of creating the category, Yahoo was accidentally listed in the CyberNOT search engine, which all Net users can access, making it appear that Cyber Patrol itself was shielding its users from Yahoo by default." Whether or not CP recently blocked Yahoo can easily be tested: ask anyone who has a version of CP that hasn't been updated in the last few days to turn on all the categories and try to access yahoo. This was in fact, partly verified by people who attempted to get a "blocked by CyberPatrol" message when accessing Yahoo, with their versions of CP, and failed. These folks included not only pro-filterers like me, but the rabid "anti-censorware" crowd on the Fight-Censorship newsgroup. ***************************************************************************** David Burt, Filtering Facts, HTTP://WWW.FILTERINGFACTS.ORG David_Burt@filteringfacts.org From sdk at mindspring.com Mon Nov 17 23:17:55 1997 From: sdk at mindspring.com (Shirl Kennedy) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... Message-ID: <01bcf3d8$f20c2920$e0f745cf@default> Did not snip out explanation deliberately. Snipped out explanation to avoid posting entire article to list. My point being...this technology is still dicey. It's too easy for a "mistake" like this to happen. Naturally, hoards of folks will notice if a site like Yahoo is blocked, even temporarily. But what about other, less mainstream/popular sites that get cut out of the loop by one of these filtering products..."accidentally." -----Original Message----- From: Filtering Facts To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... >At 07:36 PM 11/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Read it and weep... >> >>Cyber Patrol deflects Yahoo rumor >>By Courtney Macavinta >>NEWS.COM >>November 17, 1997, 2:05 p.m. PT >>URL: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16471,00.html >> > >Unfortunately, your posting snipped out CyberPatrol's very plausible >explanation: > > "Yahoo was listed in the "CyberNOT" search engine > by mistake as a result of a separate project Cyber > Patrol was commissioned to do for Prodigy. Cyber > Patrol created a category called "search engines" > specifically for the online service's own use. For > example, Prodigy could allow its customers to > block access to all or some search engines. But > during the process of creating the category, Yahoo > was accidentally listed in the CyberNOT search > engine, which all Net users can access, making it > appear that Cyber Patrol itself was shielding its > users from Yahoo by default." > >Whether or not CP recently blocked Yahoo can easily be tested: ask anyone >who has a version of CP that hasn't been updated in the last few days to >turn on >all the categories and try to access yahoo. > >This was in fact, partly verified by people who attempted to get a "blocked >by CyberPatrol" message when accessing Yahoo, with their versions of CP, and >failed. These folks included not only pro-filterers like me, but the rabid >"anti-censorware" crowd on the Fight-Censorship newsgroup. > > > > >*************************************************************************** ** >David Burt, Filtering Facts, HTTP://WWW.FILTERINGFACTS.ORG >David_Burt@filteringfacts.org > From fprain at theage.fairfax.com.au Tue Nov 18 01:17:30 1997 From: fprain at theage.fairfax.com.au (fprain@theage.fairfax.com.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:11 2005 Subject: Favorites to html? Message-ID: <19971118061752.27227.qmail@fairfax.com.au> I'm trying to convert a (large) set of Internet Explorer favorites to html -- does anyone know of any easy way to do this? All help appreciated. Frank Prain ---------------------------- Library Manager The Age "Melbourne's Newspaper" From persak at main.morris.org Tue Nov 18 06:36:33 1997 From: persak at main.morris.org (Susan Persak) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Favorites to html? References: <19971118061752.27227.qmail@fairfax.com.au> Message-ID: <34717DC1.421D@main.morris.org> fprain@theage.fairfax.com.au wrote: > > I'm trying to convert a (large) set of Internet Explorer favorites to html > -- does anyone know of any easy way to do this? > > All help appreciated. > > Frank Prain > ---------------------------- > Library Manager > The Age > "Melbourne's Newspaper" Check out Bookmark Wizard (freeware) from Moon Software: http://www.moonsoftware.ee From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Tue Nov 18 07:41:13 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply Message-ID: <01bcf41f$411092e0$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Chizuko Kawamoto To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Browser usage -Reply >Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: >To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go >into control panel, add remove programs and select >Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, >then download and install IE3... > >I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can >keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I >installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 >operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to >face lots of questions I don't know which way to >answer when I reinstall older version. I could do >what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE >allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have >lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till >the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. > It is not possible to run IE3 and IE4 on the same machine. They use different versions of too many files in the Windows directory. Vladislav's note about how to uninstall IE4 is theoretically correct. But be aware that both comp.infosystems.www.browsers.* and microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie4.* have many stories of people who cannot get IE4 to completely uninstall (it's almost like it's an integral part of the operating system!). If you really have to uninstall IE4 and go back to IE3, you may need to use third party uninstallers. BTW, the majority of IE4 problem reports I've seen are from people who installed the desktop integration stuff. It's a more stable program if you turn that off. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com Tue Nov 18 08:18:01 1997 From: emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com (emiller@smtpgwy.isinet.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply Message-ID: <9710188798.AA879870237@smtpgwy.isinet.com> You can not run both IE 3.0 and IE 4.0 on the same computer. I am a web developer and like to keep a variety of browsers on my machine so that I can see what our pages will look like under varying conditions and various browsers. I called Microsoft about this and their solution was to purchase a Jaz drive, set up with the Win 95 operating system and then install IE 4. Whenever I want to test using IE 4, I would need to boot the computer from the Jaz drive. So... am still testing using IE 3, since that is what more of my visitors use. Elisa Miller "Whatever you can do or Institute for Scientific Information dream you can, begin it. 3501 Market Street Boldness has genius, power Philadelphia, Pa 19104 and magic in it." (215)386-0100 x 1395 Goethe emiller@isinet.com URL - http://www.isinet.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Browser usage -Reply Author: ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov at INTERNET Date: 11/17/97 7:34 PM Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go into control panel, add remove programs and select Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, then download and install IE3... I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to face lots of questions I don't know which way to answer when I reinstall older version. I could do what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From Pierre.Keller at bcu.unil.ch Tue Nov 18 09:06:58 1997 From: Pierre.Keller at bcu.unil.ch (Pierre Keller - BCU Lausanne) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage. In-Reply-To: <34707764.E8750995@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971118150658.00b3aa20@pop-server.unil.ch> A 12:49 17.11.97 -0800, Wilfred Drew ?crivait: >1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? I am a happy user of Netscape 3.0. Do not install IE 4 until we have some clarification on Micro$oft and Sun (see: http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/9710/sunflash.971007.10.html -- Pierre Keller Biblioth?que cantonale et universitaire Universit? de Lausanne CH-1015 Lausanne Dorigny (Switzerland) WWW: http://www.unil.ch/BCU/docs/pkeller/ Cl? PGP: http://www.unil.ch/BCU/docs/pkeller/Keller-PGP.key From prosserj at wvlc.wvnet.edu Tue Nov 18 10:15:14 1997 From: prosserj at wvlc.wvnet.edu (Judith M. Prosser) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: addresses Message-ID: <01bcf434$c5615ba0$5e394781@prosser_j.wvlc.wvnet.edu> addresses -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19971118/47d8ced6/attachment.htm From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Nov 18 10:22:03 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: What does your magic 8-Ball say? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971118102203.00b00750@panix.com> For my January column in American Libraries, I'm featuring predictions of what will happen with the Internet in 1998. Gaze into your magic 8-ball... what does it say? All pithy prognostications are welcome! (Please include your name, job title, library, city/state.) ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From dentin at macc.wisc.edu Tue Nov 18 10:29:52 1997 From: dentin at macc.wisc.edu (Sue Dentinger) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Job posting - Project Mgr/Web Development - Univ. of Wisc Message-ID: <27111809325754@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> November 17, 1997 -- Announcement of Position University of Wisconsin -- Madison Division of Information Technology (DoIT) Project Manager for the Information Retrieval Team The Library & Information Retrieval Applications group (LIRA) is seeking an energetic project manager and systems developer to lead our Information Retrieval team. This position will plan, organize, and lead the continuing development of UW-Madison's campus-wide information system WiscINFO and its central Internet Resources directory, multi-user Web Service, and full-text search features. Learn and apply advanced web development skills in a stimulating University environment for a variety of customers. Such projects include custom web publishing feeds, database applications using Oracle, the Instructional Management Systems project, and DoIT's Intranet. These systems operate on multiple UNIX and NT servers with some mainframe data feeds. Responsibilities include customer contact and consulting to help develop new business opportunities; leading and performing analysis, design, and prototyping; producing system proposals; project planning, estimating, scheduling, and monitoring; leading and performing web-based system development, testing, and implementation; and coordinating with and advising other DoIT groups and customers on Information Retrieval applications. Close collaboration with LIRA's Library team which supports the UW-Madison Electronic Library provides opportunities for sharing technical expertise, software techniques, and innovation. The stimulating University environment and customers we serve provide challenging opportunities for learning and professional growth. A strong candidate for this position will have several years of systems development experience including customer contact and analysis/design. At least one year of project management experience is required. A proven ability to learn new technical environments and skills will complement experience with programming, data modeling or database analysis/design, and Internet tools and resources (web and others). Strong communications and teamwork skills and customer orientation are essential. Optional but desirable experience includes UNIX or Windows NT, and actual web development experience; we'll provide training in these skills if needed. Starting salary will be $53,128 per year (full-time), with candidates being considered for 75%-100% appointment. To request application materials (refer to JAC #72019), please contact Marie Yanke, DoIT Human Resources, (608) 263-1790, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison, WI 53706; email to marie.yanke@doit.wisc.edu. Application materials will be accepted until the position is filled, with the first review taking place on or about December 1, 1997. The University of Wisconsin is an equal opportunity employer, and specifically invites and encourages applications from women and minorities. (WiscINFO is available at http://www.wisc.edu/. Examples of custom applications created primarily by the LIRA team are at http://www.wisc.edu/doit/at/portfolio.html. The Electronic Library can be viewed at http://www.library.wisc.edu/.) From LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU Tue Nov 18 10:42:06 1997 From: LUCKDL at APSU01.APSU.EDU (DEANNE LUCK) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Internet Explorer and gopher Message-ID: <01IQ5F5HI7HE006CLZ@APSU01.APSU.EDU> I'm having a problem with IE accessing some documents that still reside on our gopher server. The person who brought it to my attention can access all the menu items except one. I cannot see any difference in this item and the others, and I cannot duplicate the problem. However, when I choose a menu item, view the next menu, and click "back," I get the same error she does (Cannot open the site... "due to error 800c0008"), although it does take me back. If I view the second level menu, then view one of the documents, I can go back fine. I'm using 4.0, I think the other person is using 3.x. Has anyone seen/heard anything about this? It works fine on a gopher client and on Netscape. The URL is gopher://gopher.apsu.edu:70/11gopher_root%3a%5b_campus._policy%5d Or, www.apsu.edu, choose Administration, choose Policies & Procedures. The item she cannot access is "Personnel." TIA, DeAnne Luck Electronic Resources Librarian Austin Peay State University LuckDL@apsu01.apsu.edu From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Tue Nov 18 10:58:39 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply In-Reply-To: <01bcf41f$411092e0$711e99c0@maroon.ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: Desktop integration caused TONS of problems on my Windows NT4.0 Server machine... Also, the BETA of IE4 had problems uninstalling, however I have not seen any problems with the final version as far as uninstalling, although I've had to uninstall it a few times. .......................................................................... Vladislav S. Davidzon davidzon@tech-center.com Technology Assistant Farmington Community Library Phone: (248) 553-0300 Fax: (248) 553-3228 32737 W. 12 Mile Road Farmington Hills, MI 48334 "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us" - Oliver Wendell Holmes All opinions are my opinions only, and not those of any organizations I am associated with, unless otherwise specified. .......................................................................... On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Thomas Dowling wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chizuko Kawamoto > To: Multiple recipients of list > Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: Browser usage -Reply > > > >Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: > >To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go > >into control panel, add remove programs and select > >Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, > >then download and install IE3... > > > >I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can > >keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I > >installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 > >operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to > >face lots of questions I don't know which way to > >answer when I reinstall older version. I could do > >what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE > >allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have > >lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till > >the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. > > > > > It is not possible to run IE3 and IE4 on the same machine. They use > different versions of too many files in the Windows directory. > > Vladislav's note about how to uninstall IE4 is theoretically correct. But > be aware that both comp.infosystems.www.browsers.* and > microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie4.* have many stories of people who cannot > get IE4 to completely uninstall (it's almost like it's an integral part of > the operating system!). If you really have to uninstall IE4 and go back to > IE3, you may need to use third party uninstallers. > > BTW, the majority of IE4 problem reports I've seen are from people who > installed the desktop integration stuff. It's a more stable program if you > turn that off. > > Thomas Dowling > OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network > tdowling@ohiolink.edu > > > > From eroche at sisna.com Tue Nov 18 11:38:30 1997 From: eroche at sisna.com (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply References: Message-ID: <3471C486.44E4@sisna.com> There is an interesting program called Browserola that provides simulations of the display output of source code for various versions of browsers. However, they don't have the 4.0 ones yet. It does have ie3 though. http://www.codo.com/browserola/ I limped along for about a week with the totally unstable but interesting and exciting *active desktop* and IE 4.03. But then, Cherynobyl. So I don't know how to get rid of it except by fdisk myself. You can check the forums for other creative ways people have dealt with the problem. Elisabeth Roche Roche Internet Resources and Research Tucson, AZ (520)320-5933 eroche@sisna.com serendipity RULES! Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: > > >From what I know there is no way to run IE3 and IE4. From what I've seen even if you have the IE3 files, somehow it manages to run IE4 even if you run IE3 executable / files... I suspect that there is a setting in the registry. If anyone on the list knows of a better way, I'd love to hear > it as I've had the problem before: I do web development and wanted to > test my pages with both IE4 and IE3, however had to settle for Netscape > and IE4, no ie3 :( From remelt at legacy.calvin.edu Tue Nov 18 11:41:58 1997 From: remelt at legacy.calvin.edu (remelt@legacy.calvin.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Web site that keeps track of web award sites Message-ID: <4252585911@legacy.calvin.edu> Greetings, I'm looking for a web site that keeps track of all the web award sites. By web award sites I mean Point/Lycos 5%, InterNIC Academic Guide, NetGuide Gold Site, etc. Thanks! **************** Glenn Remelts remelt@calvin.edu Automation Librarian (fax) 616-957-6470 Calvin College & Seminary 616-957-6072 "Paperless Society" is a mantra; often repeated, but seldom taken seriously. From danforth at tiac.net Tue Nov 18 12:23:53 1997 From: danforth at tiac.net (Isabel Danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: color change for one cell In-Reply-To: <2347FD655D7@mercury.rlc.manhattan.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19971118122353.00859bd0@sunspot.tiac.net> It appears that Netscape 3.0 perhaps 3.01 do lose the color in the table cell when the color is white. I did remove the marks Stacy mentioned, and Netscape 3.0 still lost the white. however, with a non white color, it seems to work. I set the bdcolor to be fffffe and that seems to do the trick. Who knows. Isabel At 09:57 PM 11/17/97 EST5EDT, Stacy Pober wrote: >I looked at your page and the color problem did occur in my browser >(Netscape 3.01 Gold running on Windows for Workgroups 3.11) >I have used a similar code on my pages and had no problems at >all, so to see what your problem I downloaded the file locally and >looked at the code in Notepad. > >Interestingly, in Notepad, there were little non-ascii codes at the >end of each line of HTML. These appeared as solid rectangular boxes, >one character in size. They are something like the unwanted code I >get at the end of a document when I save a file in WordPerfect 5.1 in >ASCII text. > >I hand-deleted the little boxes, resaved the document, and lo and >behold, your color code for that TD table cell suddenly worked just >fine. > >I suspect your word processor is inserting a non-visible character >at every line break in your HTML. While I could not see it in View >Document Source in Netscape, they were consistently there when the >same file was opened in Notepad. Similar small graphics characters >were at the *beginning* of each line when I opened the file in >Microsoft Word. (Looked at it in WordPerfect for Windows but didn't >see any problems there.) > >Try the same code typed in using another word processing program or a >simple text editor such as Notepad on a Windows 3.1 system (hey, >maybe the unwanted code is not a Win95 problem as such, but you never >know...) > >Good luck, >Stacy > >>Is there a valid means of changing background color, for just one >>cell of a table? > >>The following seems to work on my win95 PC under both netscape 3 and >>communicator. However under netscape 2, the background color does >>not change at all, and worse, is that under netscape 3 on another >>Win95 PC, IT only changed for the lines of text within the cell, not >>for the full 'box' itself. > >>The actual page (it is only a test page) is at: >>htt://www.tiac.net/users/wethpl >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Stacy Pober Internet: spober@manvax.cc.manhattan.edu >Information Alchemist http://www.manhattan.edu/library/mclmenu.html >Manhattan College Libraries Phone: 718-862-7980 >Riverdale, NY 10471 Fax: 718-862-7995 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From janders at camino.delmar.edu Tue Nov 18 14:50:05 1997 From: janders at camino.delmar.edu (Judy Anderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: ZDnet WebOpedia service question Message-ID: <3471F16D.1AD0@camino.delmar.edu> Thanks to all who responded to my Full Armour question. I'm definitely going to test the product. Another question re: products. A faculty has requested that I subscribe to the WebOpedia service for our Computing Services students. If you are using the product, 1) do the users really find it helpful? Does the coverage justify the cost? 2) are you subscribing for the online or loading it locally? 3) how are the updates handled? Any information is much appreciated. -- Judy Anderson janders@camino.delmar.edu (512) 886 1951 Del Mar College Library From webguru at gtu.edu Tue Nov 18 12:01:37 1997 From: webguru at gtu.edu (Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: What does your magic 8-Ball say? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971118102203.00b00750@panix.com> Message-ID: At 7:49 AM -0800 11/18/97, Karen G. Schneider wrote: >For my January column in American Libraries, I'm featuring predictions of >what will happen with the Internet in 1998. Gaze into your magic 8-ball... >what does it say? "The Internet will continue to be overhyped" "More people will ignore the hype and actually use the Internet to communicate" "People will be exposed to ideas and cultures outside their usual experiences, many from resources outside their country. Library Internet Resources Co-ordinator webguru@gtu.edu (currently Gilles Poitras gpoitras@gtu.edu) Graduate Theological Union Library 2400 Ridge Road Berkeley, California, USA http://www.gtu.edu/library/ From jacks at cs.wisc.edu Tue Nov 18 13:30:38 1997 From: jacks at cs.wisc.edu (Jack Solock) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Web site that keeps track of web award sites In-Reply-To: <4252585911@legacy.calvin.edu> Message-ID: One place is FA Focus Associates. http://www.focusa.com/search/award_sites.htm Click on: menu for an alpahbetical listing. I don't know how comprehensive it is, and, of course it is a billboard. But has a lot of them. Hope this helps. Jack BTW, its angle is that it rates the award sites! Jack Solock jacks@cs.wisc.edu Internet Librarian--Internet Scout Project 608-262-6606 Editor--The Scout Report and Subject Specific Scout Reports Dept. of Computer Sciences University of Wisconsin-Madison http://www.cs.wisc.edu/scout -- Internet Scout Project Home Page On Tue, 18 Nov 1997 remelt@legacy.calvin.edu wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a web site that keeps track of all the web award > sites. By web award sites I mean Point/Lycos 5%, InterNIC Academic > Guide, NetGuide Gold Site, etc. > > Thanks! > > > > **************** > Glenn Remelts remelt@calvin.edu > Automation Librarian (fax) 616-957-6470 > Calvin College & Seminary 616-957-6072 > > "Paperless Society" is a mantra; often repeated, but seldom taken seriously. > From emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com Tue Nov 18 13:23:40 1997 From: emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com (emiller@smtpgwy.isinet.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Browser usage -Reply Message-ID: <9710188798.AA879888548@smtpgwy.isinet.com> You can not run both IE 3.0 and IE 4.0 on the same computer. I am a web developer and like to keep a variety of browsers on my machine so that I can see what our pages will look like under varying conditions and various browsers. I called Microsoft about this and their solution was to purchase a Jaz drive, set up with the Win 95 operating system and then install IE 4. Whenever I want to test using IE 4, I would need to boot the computer from the Jaz drive. Elisa Miller "Whatever you can do or Institute for Scientific Information dream you can, begin it. 3501 Market Street Boldness has genius, power Philadelphia, Pa 19104 and magic in it." (215)386-0100 x 1395 Goethe emiller@isinet.com URL - http://www.isinet.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Browser usage -Reply Author: ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov at INTERNET Date: 11/17/97 7:34 PM Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: To remove IE4 however, under NT4 or Win95 just go into control panel, add remove programs and select Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and click remove, then download and install IE3... I don't want to remove IE 4.0. Do you know if I can keep both versions like I do with Netscape? When I installed IE 4.0, it slightly changed how Windows 95 operates (not only desktop). I'm sure I'll have to face lots of questions I don't know which way to answer when I reinstall older version. I could do what you suggested, and reinstall 4.0 later IF IE allows you to keep both versions. Since I don't have lots of time and patience, I'll probably just wait till the company upgrades the voice e-mail I purchased. Chizuko Kawamoto ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From CMUNSON at aaas.org Tue Nov 18 16:04:01 1997 From: CMUNSON at aaas.org (CMUNSON) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... Message-ID: <000CBFA8.1205@aaas.org> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Cyber Patrol blocks access to Yahoo... Author: "Shirl Kennedy" at Internet Date: 11/17/97 8:22 PM Did not snip out explanation deliberately. Snipped out explanation to avoid posting entire article to list. My point being...this technology is still dicey. It's too easy for a "mistake" like this to happen. Naturally, hoards of folks will notice if a site like Yahoo is blocked, even temporarily. But what about other, less mainstream/popular sites that get cut out of the loop by one of these filtering products..."accidentally." The problem is that this technology doesn't work and even if it did, it doesn't belong in libraries. I don't see why we should allow an extreme minority, with known censorial tendencies, to set any of the terms of this debate. I say that we should set some professional standards and take an activist approach towards these attacks on public libraries. There is abundant evidence that censorware will block sites that it isn't designed to and will miss sites that it should block. What's frightening is that there are librarians who think that there is a place for such censorial technology in our libraries. I think we should stop being wussy librarians on this and stand up to these nutcases like Gounauld and her "Family Friendly Libraries." Chuck0 Anti-Filtering FAQ (under construction) http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/1672/censors.html From CMUNSON at aaas.org Tue Nov 18 16:07:40 1997 From: CMUNSON at aaas.org (CMUNSON) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! Any observations? Chuck Munson AAAS From jrosenhamer at okc.cc.ok.us Tue Nov 18 16:31:36 1997 From: jrosenhamer at okc.cc.ok.us (John Rosenhamer) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Web Page Editing -- Buttons Message-ID: I'm working on new pages for our library, and I would like to include some large buttons. These need be large enough to hold their title. I think I want to put them along the left edge in a frame. How can I get the buttons, or make the buttons. How can I get the text inside the buttons. I am using Pro97 as an editor. I like the non-qui interface and the clean HTML. I've tried (and have) Word's editor, Hot Dog, etc., but I continually have trouble getting the parts where I want them. So I like Pro97, even with its shortcomings. John John H. Rosenhamer Technical Service Librarian Oklahoma City Community College 7777 S. May Ave. Oklahoma City, OK 73013 (405) 682-1611 x7229 jrosenhamer@okc.cc.ok.us Fax: (405) 682-7585 jrosenhamer@dante.okc.cc.ok.us From walterm at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us Tue Nov 18 16:52:21 1997 From: walterm at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (Walter Minkel) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I only know my own experiences, & I'm becoming more & more disappointed with Yahoo. I search for & compile web sites with information content for K-12 students, & I've just about given up on Yahoo for worthwhile stuff. Nowadays, whenever I do a Yahoo search, it seems to come up with an overwhelming number of commercial sites and a lot of dead links. Yahooligans is even worse. It seems to be almost _all_ commercial sites these days. I'm using mostly MetaCrawler & HotBot to find the good stuff. --W Walter Minkel, School Corps Technology Trainer Multnomah County Library, 205 NE Russell St., Portland, OR 97212 Voice (503)736-6002; fax (503)248-5441; walterm@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us ============== O gnats--tango! --Palindrome-of-the-month Club From ras at nimbus.anzio.com Tue Nov 18 16:54:04 1997 From: ras at nimbus.anzio.com (Robert Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: I can speak from experience that Yahoo is very UNresponsive to modification requests. We changed sites 10 months ago, and have as yet failed to get Yahoo to show our new site. Consequently we have had to maintain an account at our prior site in order to forward the (many) web hits that we get from Yahoo. I had a hard time getting listed in the first place, until I cocontacted them about possible advertising... On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > Any observations? > > Chuck Munson > AAAS > Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From CMUNSON at aaas.org Tue Nov 18 17:13:01 1997 From: CMUNSON at aaas.org (CMUNSON) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: <000CC136.1205@aaas.org> I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide coordinated by librarians? Are there any promising projects out there? Chuck ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Is Yahoo! still useful? Author: Robert Rasmussen at Internet Date: 11/18/97 1:54 PM I can speak from experience that Yahoo is very UNresponsive to modification requests. We changed sites 10 months ago, and have as yet failed to get Yahoo to show our new site. Consequently we have had to maintain an account at our prior site in order to forward the (many) web hits that we get from Yahoo. I had a hard time getting listed in the first place, until I cocontacted them about possible advertising... On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > Any observations? > > Chuck Munson > AAAS > Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Tue Nov 18 17:33:33 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: I share your experience and concern. I have also noted many categories in which Yahoo! has dead links and/or old sites -- many not maintained in over 1 year or 2. They are no longer in my first cut of places to search when I organize our searching classes. Joe Barker, WWW Program Coordinator, The Teaching Library, UCB On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > Any observations? > > Chuck Munson > AAAS > From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Tue Nov 18 17:47:23 1997 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: On Nov 18, Chuck Munson wrote - >I've submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > added. I keep a page that points to new medical/health sites added to Yahoo ... http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/mednew.html ... Rest assured, they are still adding a large volume of sites ... trouble is, a large proportion are from the .com domain. I've had the same frustrating experience submitting pages to Yahoo that you have. To see the new sites added, broken down by Yahoo section, see - http://www.yahoo.com/new/ Of course, the Business and Economy section predominates! ... As far as the general usefulness of Yahoo ... I do regular link checking of lists in the Hardin Meta Directory (see URL in signature) to see that they're maintaining a reasonable connection rate, and Yahoo generally does quite well - They must be spending a fair amount of time/energy checking links. * * * * * * * * * Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) Hardin Meta Directory of Internet Health Sources http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/md.html Featured in Internet Medicine (Lippincott-Raven), June 1997 From CMUNSON at aaas.org Tue Nov 18 17:49:42 1997 From: CMUNSON at aaas.org (CMUNSON) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Anti-filtering web site Message-ID: <000CC1CA.1205@aaas.org> It's under construction, but it's a start. Filtering and Censorware in Libraries: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7382/ Chuck0 From lou at argus-inc.com Tue Nov 18 17:27:25 1997 From: lou at argus-inc.com (Louis Rosenfeld) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > Any observations? > > Chuck Munson > AAAS Many have experienced these same problems; you might check Danny Sullivan's survey of Yahoo's submissions process at http://www.searchenginewatch.com/yahoo/ which came out in August. It's not surprising that an effort to centrally classify just about everything on the Internet has fallen apart. Why should such an endeavor ever have been expected to succeed? It's just too much work for one organization to take on. Although it likely wasn't Jerry Yang and David Filo's original motivation, the folks at Yahoo have probably known for quite some time that the Yahoo directory was itself going to rapidly decline in quality, and that it made sense to leverage the directory's initial and very public success into a public offering, which in turn funded entry into other business venues (e.g., Yahoo Life, partnerships with content providers, etc.). This same "get attention and go for an IPO" model was also likely OpenText's motivation for creating their search engine, now little heard from since their IPO. Oh well, call me a cynical old fart... The sad thing is that users continue to be sold a bill of goods that Yahoo is "the place" to go to for the best information on Internet resources. Most people have no idea that Yahoo is neither comprehensive, up-to-date, or accurate. I think this is misleading; Yahoo should either do the job it claims to do or get out of the directory business altogether. This would be the ethical thing to do. Oh well, call me a naive idealist... Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ From dpeter at nla.gov.au Tue Nov 18 18:06:50 1997 From: dpeter at nla.gov.au (Davin Peterson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:14 2005 Subject: Unwanted characters in ASCII files Message-ID: These unwanted characters are interpreted as end of line markers when you upload an ASCII file as a binary file. To avoid these characters in an ordinary text or html (which may indeed interfer with the browser's parsing of your code) make sure you select ASCII when using an ftp program. Some ftp utilities will take care of this problem automatically, others don't (including WS_FTP). These unwanted characters can be ignored by some editors and not by others, (eg.. NotePad) making it difficult to detect the problem. This is not unique to Win95, it is a common problem. cheers Davin Peterson System Projects National Library of Australia dpeter@nla.gov.au >-----Original Message----- >From: Stacy Pober [SMTP:Spober@manhattan.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 1997 14:12 >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: color change for one cell > > there were little non-ascii codes at the >end of each line of HTML. These appeared as solid rectangular boxes, >one character in size. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Nov 18 18:21:49 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? References: <000CC136.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: <3472230D.BB002BF@morrisville.edu> Supposedly Yahoo had librarians doing indexing. The head of it was a memeber of this list at one time. I hope she replies. CMUNSON wrote: > > I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that > there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide > coordinated by librarians? > > Are there any promising projects out there? > > Chuck > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Is Yahoo! still useful? > Author: Robert Rasmussen at Internet > Date: 11/18/97 1:54 PM > > I can speak from experience that Yahoo is very UNresponsive to modification > requests. We changed sites 10 months ago, and have as yet failed to get Yahoo > to show our new site. Consequently we have had to maintain an account at our > prior site in order to forward the (many) web hits that we get from Yahoo. > > I had a hard time getting listed in the first place, until I cocontacted them > about possible advertising... > > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > > > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > > > Any observations? > > > > Chuck Munson > > AAAS > > > > Regards, > ...Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. > > personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com > company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com or sales@anzio.com or support@anzio.com > ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360 > http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760 > -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ -- From T.Krichel at surrey.ac.uk Tue Nov 18 18:27:36 1997 From: T.Krichel at surrey.ac.uk (Thomas Krichel) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CC136.1205@aaas.org> from "CMUNSON" at Nov 18, 97 03:12:50 pm Message-ID: <9711182331.AA21525@library.berkeley.edu> Chuck Munson wonders > Are there any promising projects out there? http://vlib.stanford.edu/Overview.html Thomas Krichel mailto:T.Krichel@surrey.ac.uk http://gretel.econ.surrey.ac.uk From creechj at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu Tue Nov 18 18:43:02 1997 From: creechj at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu (John Creech) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CC136.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that > there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide > coordinated by librarians? > > Are there any promising projects out there? Librarians' Index to the Internet, at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/InternetIndex/ John Creech Electronic Resources Librarian & Asst. Head of Reference | Central Washington University Library | 400 E. 8th Ave. | Ellensburg, WA 98926 | 509-963-1081 | jcreech@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu | personal mail=jcreech@ellensburg.com personal pages=larry.ellensburg.com/~jcreech From creechj at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu Tue Nov 18 19:01:32 1997 From: creechj at mumbly.lib.cwu.edu (John Creech) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Web site that keeps track of web award sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I'm looking for a web site that keeps track of all the web award > > sites. By web award sites I mean Point/Lycos 5%, InterNIC Academic > > Guide, NetGuide Gold Site, etc. Glenn, Another possibility is the "Coooool Sites" page from the Beyond the Black Stump Website, at http://werple.net.au/~lions/secret.htm I like it because the entire site is sooooo strange, so rich, so different. "It's got a good beat, and I can dance to it." John Creech Electronic Resources Librarian & Asst. Head of Reference | Central Washington University Library | 400 E. 8th Ave. | Ellensburg, WA 98926 | 509-963-1081 | jcreech@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu | personal mail=jcreech@ellensburg.com personal pages=larry.ellensburg.com/~jcreech From mbancroft at ssc.nsw.gov.au Tue Nov 18 20:15:23 1997 From: mbancroft at ssc.nsw.gov.au (mbancroft@ssc.nsw.gov.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Which way to go? - Message-ID: <97Nov19.110330est.40321@firewall.ssc.nsw.gov.au> In our public library we plan to install a small ( 10 user) public access LAN to give patrons access to the internet and CD-ROMs. When I started lurking on this truly informative list (This is my first post), there was some discussion of the merits of accessing information on CD-ROM vs the WWW. From what I read here I believe each has its pros and cons. I do not expect you good people to rehash the debate just for my benefit but I am seeking advice or opinion on what sort of balance to aim for. I would also appreciate input on a related issue: We want to look at loading CD-ROMs as files on hard disk. Is anyone doing this and if so are there any benefits other than access speed? Thank You Max Bancroft Sutherland Shire Libraries and Information Service. Sutherland. NSW Australia From narnett at verity.com Tue Nov 18 19:18:56 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971119001856.0106759c@verity.com> At 03:16 PM 11/18/97 -0800, CMUNSON wrote: > I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that > there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide > coordinated by librarians? > > Are there any promising projects out there? I would suggest looking at the Argus Clearinghouse (http://www.clearinghouse.net/). They're much more oriented toward authoritative sources. Nick -- Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Tue Nov 18 19:21:55 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: <01bcf481$24884480$db80d98d@techserver> I have noticed quite a few broken links on Yahoo, thats why I actually stopped using it in my internet searches... If you go into any of the categories, especially internet providers, you will stumble upon many broken links. Does anyone know of any good engines that do the same thing Yahoo *used* to do? While Yahoo may not be completely dead, I have a strong feelings its one of those dinosaur-like creatures which outgrow themselves... It just became too big... Vladislav -----Original Message----- From: Eric Rumsey To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Is Yahoo! still useful? >On Nov 18, Chuck Munson wrote - >>I've submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got >> added. > >I keep a page that points to new medical/health sites added to Yahoo ... >http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/mednew.html >.. Rest assured, they are still adding a large volume of sites ... trouble >is, a large proportion are from the .com domain. I've had the same >frustrating experience submitting pages to Yahoo that you have. > >To see the new sites added, broken down by Yahoo section, see - >http://www.yahoo.com/new/ >Of course, the Business and Economy section predominates! ... > >As far as the general usefulness of Yahoo ... I do regular link checking of >lists in the Hardin Meta Directory (see URL in signature) to see that >they're maintaining a reasonable connection rate, and Yahoo generally does >quite well - They must be spending a fair amount of time/energy checking >links. > >* * * * * * * * * >Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences >University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 > >319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) >Hardin Meta Directory of Internet Health Sources >http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/md.html >Featured in Internet Medicine (Lippincott-Raven), June 1997 > > > > From cori at nmsua.nmsu.edu Tue Nov 18 18:57:24 1997 From: cori at nmsua.nmsu.edu (CAPUTO CORINNE) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: yahoo Message-ID: <2A2A5D0676E@nmsua.nmsu.edu> i still find yahoo as an incredible source of information. sometimes when i can't find the info on other search engines, i can find it quickly on yahoo. i teach yahoo as a valuable search engine in both internet classes and bibliographic instruction. they may not accept every site that comes in but still an incredible source that should not be downed as useless because anyone's site hasn't been added. it is hand selected and indexed and a great resource for someone using the search engine. it would be a great loss to not have it as a resource. i find myself handling it a lot easier via search results and approaches than the multiple listings (despite advance searching strategies) which i find in other search engines. I emphasize to my staff and classes the importance of using Yahoo as a valuable resource. I will point out that i teach the other search engines too . Cori Caputo Assistant Librarian NMSU at Alamogordo Alamogordo, NM 88311 email:cori@nmsua.nmsu.edu office: 505-439-362 http://abcc.nmsu.edu/~ccaputo http://abcc.nmsu.edu/library/library.html http://abcc.nmsu.edu/~comed/index.htm From lou at argus-inc.com Tue Nov 18 20:29:16 1997 From: lou at argus-inc.com (Louis Rosenfeld) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CC136.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that > there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide > coordinated by librarians? > > Are there any promising projects out there? > > Chuck Depends on how you define promising. ;-) I'll nominate the Argus Clearinghouse (http://www.clearinghouse.net) for purely selfish reasons. We've tried to focus on a valuable niche (topical guides to Internet resources), centralize what seems to make sense to centralize (classification and rating of guides), and decentralize the rest (creation and maintenance of guides by independent authors). The part we've never achieved is a sound economic model; The Mining Company succeeded in getting the capital to do the things we'd hoped to, but the jury is still out on their financial success. Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ From danforth at tiac.net Tue Nov 18 20:39:47 1997 From: danforth at tiac.net (Isabel Danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Unwanted characters in ASCII files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19971118203947.00860450@sunspot.tiac.net> Thanks. I used the ASCII mode to upload my page, and now have 'pure' white there, and that works fine. Interesting still how come non-white stays in the table cell, but white won't. .. Well Isabel At 04:51 PM 11/18/97 -0800, Davin Peterson wrote: >These unwanted characters are interpreted as end of line markers when >you upload an ASCII file as a binary file. To avoid these characters in >an ordinary text or html (which may indeed interfer with the browser's >parsing of your code) make sure you select ASCII when using an ftp >program. >Some ftp utilities will take care of this problem automatically, others >don't (including WS_FTP). > >These unwanted characters can be ignored by some editors and not by >others, (eg.. NotePad) making it difficult to detect the problem. This >is not unique to Win95, it is a common problem. >cheers >Davin Peterson >System Projects >National Library of Australia >dpeter@nla.gov.au > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Stacy Pober [SMTP:Spober@manhattan.edu] >>Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 1997 14:12 >>To: Multiple recipients of list >>Subject: Re: color change for one cell >> >> there were little non-ascii codes at the >>end of each line of HTML. These appeared as solid rectangular boxes, >>one character in size. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From narnett at verity.com Tue Nov 18 20:47:20 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:15 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971119014720.00f317cc@verity.com> At 04:39 PM 11/18/97 -0800, Louis Rosenfeld wrote: >Although it likely wasn't Jerry Yang and David Filo's original motivation, >the folks at Yahoo have probably known for quite some time that the Yahoo >directory was itself going to rapidly decline in quality, and that it made >sense to leverage the directory's initial and very public success into a >public offering, which in turn funded entry into other business venues >(e.g., Yahoo Life, partnerships with content providers, etc.). This same >"get attention and go for an IPO" model was also likely OpenText's >motivation for creating their search engine, now little heard from since >their IPO. Oh well, call me a cynical old fart... Not quite fair, Lou... Open Text has turned itself around quite a bit by becoming a document management system in addition to a search engine. It's quite a different model from the rest of us in the search business, who actively avoid writing code for anything that looks or smells like a document repository. It has been a good move for them; their engine is very fast, but lacks a lot of the sophistications for high accuracy and such. >The sad thing is that users continue to be sold a bill of goods that Yahoo >is "the place" to go to for the best information on Internet resources. >Most people have no idea that Yahoo is neither comprehensive, up-to-date, >or accurate. I think this is misleading; Yahoo should either do the job it >claims to do or get out of the directory business altogether. This would >be the ethical thing to do. Oh well, call me a naive idealist... How about "naive idealist old fart?" ;-) Seriously, though, I've come to believe that one of Yahoo's strengths is that they don't do anything particularly well except package things, much like Microsoft. The value is in the synthesis of technologies and content. They don't categorize particularly well and they don't offer particularly good search. But they package the heck out of it and get it in peoples' faces. I think of them as the Aldine Press of the Internet revolution. Aldus didn't have the best typography or the best content, but the Aldine Press was a huge success, partly because they figured out how to get the "geeks" and "people who wear comfortable shoes" (in the words of one of the speakers in Michigan this year) to compromise. Meanwhile, Gutenberg's venture capitalists sued him because he refused to ship a product while he tried to improve typography to the quality of illustrated manuscripts. Gutenberg died bankrupt but his typography is still regarded as outstanding. The Holy Roman Empire, which was the source of most of the content, tried to control distribution of ideas and lost much of its power, largely as a result of a different kind of bankruptcy. Aldus succeeded partly because he figured out how to do simple things like title pages and catalogs. Ah, well, I should go home and work on a book about this, instead of writing a long message here... Nick -- Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU Wed Nov 19 09:20:06 1997 From: KHARKE at MEDNET.SWMED.EDU (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Web Page Editing -- Buttons -Reply Message-ID: The buttons are graphics, and need to be developed in a graphics software application. We use PaintShopPro, which as a utility to create buttons (buttonize). The text on the button becomes a part of the graphic, and therefore is not text, but graphic. When you have developed your button, you can place it using HTML, then you need to map the image. I do not know how or if you can do this with Pro97, but in AOLPress, there is a utility to do this. You may want to create a large graphic and divide this graphic into smaller buttons, which may make it easier to place it on the page. Karen R. Harker Information Resource Center Web Developer UT Southwestern Medical Library Dallas, Texas http://www.swmed.edu/home_pages/library/ >>> John Rosenhamer 11/18/97 04:15pm >>> I'm working on new pages for our library, and I would like to include some large buttons. These need be large enough to hold their title. I think I want to put them along the left edge in a frame. How can I get the buttons, or make the buttons. How can I get the text inside the buttons. I am using Pro97 as an editor. I like the non-qui interface and the clean HTML. I've tried (and have) Word's editor, Hot Dog, etc., but I continually have trouble getting the parts where I want them. So I like Pro97, even with its shortcomings. John John H. Rosenhamer Technical Service Librarian Oklahoma City Community College 7777 S. May Ave. Oklahoma City, OK 73013 (405) 682-1611 x7229 jrosenhamer@okc.cc.ok.us Fax: (405) 682-7585 jrosenhamer@dante.okc.cc.ok.us From murgasa at sls.lib.il.us Wed Nov 19 09:13:31 1997 From: murgasa at sls.lib.il.us (Andrew Murgas) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: UNIX listservs/PC listservs In-Reply-To: <97Nov19.110330est.40321@firewall.ssc.nsw.gov.au> Message-ID: Does anyone have any UNIX and PC listservs that they highly recommend? I have some collegues who are looking for some decent ones that cover SUN machines as well as PC's. Thanks in advance Andrew R. Murgas Suburban Library System Information Technology Specialist murgasa@sls.lib.il.us From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Nov 19 10:20:51 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> What intrigues me about Yahoo is that they do it at all. We keep saying in our profession that we can't possibly have one catalog for the Internet... we can't possibly organize the Internet... yada yada yada... but how do we know that? I can think of a number of cmpanies, Yahoo among them, that believe they can classify the Internet, at least into a rough-sort. Their work is crude and does not meet the level of classification that librarianship has accomplished with paper media--your average K-level record has more access points than any of these tools offer--but if they can do so much with so little, why CAN'T we organize the 'net? Why haven't we started with the proposition that this was doable? Why is it that we accept a mammoth union database like OCLC but can't project this to the online environment? Why haven't we done our OWN Yahoo, sans the McInternet stuff? I'm going to play make-believe with Librarian's Index to the Internet. LII is a nice tool--but it is small; this is not a criticism, but an observation. So let's grow this mustard seed. Apply for grants, take a pile of money and start hiring. If there were one person assigned to each subject area, it would be much larger. If each citation had more metadata, maybe a la the PICS label but used MARCishly for descriptive purposes, it would take more time to maintain it, so let's double the number of librarians working on LII. But then let's add some brainiacs to the mix who figure out how to extract a lot of the information--we'll call it fixed data--that we now laboriously assign by hand when we catalog books. So now it's a little faster to do. Now let's tack on a big government grant (kind of like going public). More staff, better indexing, more money for the brainiacs to develop better tools for automating organization and retrieval. Now let's merge the RCLS kid's database with LII for a children's room (similar to Yahooligans). Another ggrant rolls in, and we buy up a few more small collections and give 'em the big standardized reorg. The records also go into Intercat, of course. As for the kids, Yahooligans was created to make money for Yahoo; Surfwatch features a setting which can restrict Surfwatch to the Yahooligans database, and lame it is, but the concept is interesting, if we are talking about customizing a database so different users have different resources presented differently. So now we have the LII--perhaps renamed a little more slickly, like Find-All--beefed up into a non-commercial database, cooperatively maintained by funding, congruent with existing standards, searchable on its own or through any library catalog--many views, same data. High public trust, high quality, all the good stuff we stand for... dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the U.S.; we can't do this? ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From inyocolib at QNET.COM Wed Nov 19 11:18:36 1997 From: inyocolib at QNET.COM (Inyo County Free Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. References: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> Message-ID: <3473115C.1B76@qnet.com> Karen G. Schneider wrote: > So now we have the LII--perhaps renamed a little more slickly, like > Find-All--beefed up into a non-commercial database, cooperatively > maintained by funding, congruent with existing standards, searchable on its > own or through any library catalog--many views, same data. High public > trust, high quality, all the good stuff we stand for... > > dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the > U.S.; we can't do this? Actually, we could start now, with no big grant funding, if librarians would volunteer to take over a subject area in which they have some expertise and if LII would accept our submissions (Carole?). It's a *lot* of work for one person to oversee, and we could alleviate this by submitting our suggestions in "html-ready" form (like "camera-ready" for the printer). Wouldn't this be a helpful/useful thing for us to do? -- Glenna Stansifer, Director Inyo County Free Library Independence, CA USA inyocolib@qnet.com From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Wed Nov 19 12:51:08 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To the list of Yahoo! shortcomings, I'd add that it is also not a search of the text of the documents -- only of the classifications and top of documents. I believe Yahoo! corp is making money internationally and in their mini-city-Yahoo!s which compete with classified ads and yellow pages. They seem to have abandoned the info business. Joe Barker On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Louis Rosenfeld wrote: > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > > > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've > > submitted web sites half a dozen times to Yahoo! and they never got > > added. One was work-related and I asked 4 times over 6 months. Given > > the exponential increase in web content you'd think you'd see a > > corresponding increase in the number of new sites added. > > > > I see little evidence of this at Yahoo! > > > > Any observations? > > > > Chuck Munson > > AAAS > > Many have experienced these same problems; you might check Danny > Sullivan's survey of Yahoo's submissions process at > http://www.searchenginewatch.com/yahoo/ which came out in August. > > It's not surprising that an effort to centrally classify just about > everything on the Internet has fallen apart. Why should such an endeavor > ever have been expected to succeed? It's just too much work for one > organization to take on. > > Although it likely wasn't Jerry Yang and David Filo's original motivation, > the folks at Yahoo have probably known for quite some time that the Yahoo > directory was itself going to rapidly decline in quality, and that it made > sense to leverage the directory's initial and very public success into a > public offering, which in turn funded entry into other business venues > (e.g., Yahoo Life, partnerships with content providers, etc.). This same > "get attention and go for an IPO" model was also likely OpenText's > motivation for creating their search engine, now little heard from since > their IPO. Oh well, call me a cynical old fart... > > The sad thing is that users continue to be sold a bill of goods that Yahoo > is "the place" to go to for the best information on Internet resources. > Most people have no idea that Yahoo is neither comprehensive, up-to-date, > or accurate. I think this is misleading; Yahoo should either do the job it > claims to do or get out of the directory business altogether. This would > be the ethical thing to do. Oh well, call me a naive idealist... > > > > > Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com > Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com > 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 > Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 > > Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) > O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ > > From walterm at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us Wed Nov 19 12:55:35 1997 From: walterm at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (Walter Minkel) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> Message-ID: Karen-- If you're talking about a "Children's Room," please take a look at our Multnomah County Library KidsPage Homework Center at . We've (particular our School Corps' Kate Houston) been knocking ourselves out on this. --W On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Karen G. Schneider wrote: > What intrigues me about Yahoo is that they do it at all. We keep saying in > our profession that we can't possibly have one catalog for the Internet... > we can't possibly organize the Internet... yada yada yada... but how do we > know that? I can think of a number of cmpanies, Yahoo among them, that > believe they can classify the Internet, at least into a rough-sort. Their > work is crude and does not meet the level of classification that > librarianship has accomplished with paper media--your average K-level > record has more access points than any of these tools offer--but if they > can do so much with so little, why CAN'T we organize the 'net? Why > haven't we started with the proposition that this was doable? Why is it > that we accept a mammoth union database like OCLC but can't project this to > the online environment? Why haven't we done our OWN Yahoo, sans the > McInternet stuff? > > I'm going to play make-believe with Librarian's Index to the Internet. LII > is a nice tool--but it is small; this is not a criticism, but an > observation. So let's grow this mustard seed. Apply for grants, take a > pile of money and start hiring. If there were one person assigned to each > subject area, it would be much larger. If each citation had more metadata, > maybe a la the PICS label but used MARCishly for descriptive purposes, it > would take more time to maintain it, so let's double the number of > librarians working on LII. But then let's add some brainiacs to the mix > who figure out how to extract a lot of the information--we'll call it fixed > data--that we now laboriously assign by hand when we catalog books. So now > it's a little faster to do. Now let's tack on a big government grant (kind > of like going public). More staff, better indexing, more money for the > brainiacs to develop better tools for automating organization and > retrieval. Now let's merge the RCLS kid's database with LII for a > children's room (similar to Yahooligans). Another ggrant rolls in, and we > buy up a few more small collections and give 'em the big standardized > reorg. The records also go into Intercat, of course. > > As for the kids, Yahooligans was created to make money for Yahoo; Surfwatch > features a setting which can restrict Surfwatch to the Yahooligans > database, and lame it is, but the concept is interesting, if we are talking > about customizing a database so different users have different resources > presented differently. > > So now we have the LII--perhaps renamed a little more slickly, like > Find-All--beefed up into a non-commercial database, cooperatively > maintained by funding, congruent with existing standards, searchable on its > own or through any library catalog--many views, same data. High public > trust, high quality, all the good stuff we stand for... > > dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the > U.S.; we can't do this? > ______________________________________________ > Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com > Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI > Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association > The Internet Filter Assessment Project: > http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ > Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters > (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) > Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- > Walter Minkel, School Corps Technology Trainer Multnomah County Library, 205 NE Russell St., Portland, OR 97212 Voice (503)736-6002; fax (503)248-5441; walterm@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us ============== O gnats--tango! --Palindrome-of-the-month Club From jbarker at library.berkeley.edu Wed Nov 19 13:03:14 1997 From: jbarker at library.berkeley.edu (Joe Barker) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think EINet Galaxy, with its reviews, is often a very useful research aid. http://lmc.einet.net/galaxy.html In the advanced searching classes I teach, I recommend Yahoo! not as a general web searching tool, but one of several sources for pages rich in links on some topics. I suggest searching for a topic term and "indices" in Yahoo. I also recommend Argus Clearinghouse, Galaxy, the Internet Librarian, the WWWVirtual Library mirrored at Stanford (mentioned earlier in this discussion). And some other rich sites like MVRD. For a complete listing of these pages and the other resources recommended in this advanced course, see: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/ Guides/Internet/BeyondWeb.html#Webliographies Joe Barker, Teaching Library, UC Berkeley On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Louis Rosenfeld wrote: > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > > > I'm looking forward to more responses, but does this indicate that > > there may finally be a need to have a comprehensive subject guide > > coordinated by librarians? > > > > Are there any promising projects out there? > > > > Chuck > > Depends on how you define promising. ;-) > > I'll nominate the Argus Clearinghouse (http://www.clearinghouse.net) for > purely selfish reasons. We've tried to focus on a valuable niche (topical > guides to Internet resources), centralize what seems to make sense to > centralize (classification and rating of guides), and decentralize the > rest (creation and maintenance of guides by independent authors). The > part we've never achieved is a sound economic model; The Mining Company > succeeded in getting the capital to do the things we'd hoped to, but the > jury is still out on their financial success. > > Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com > Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com > 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 > Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 > > Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) > O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ > > From transit at primenet.com Wed Nov 19 13:33:31 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Walter Minkel wrote: > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, CMUNSON wrote: > > > Yahoo! has been one of the premiere web directories for several years, > > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? > > I only know my own experiences, & I'm becoming more & more disappointed > with Yahoo. I search for & compile web sites with information content for > K-12 students, & I've just about given up on Yahoo for worthwhile stuff. > Nowadays, whenever I do a Yahoo search, it seems to come up with an > overwhelming number of commercial sites and a lot of dead links. > Yahooligans is even worse. It seems to be almost _all_ commercial sites > these days. I'm using mostly MetaCrawler & HotBot to find the good stuff. I tend to think that Yahoo is just overwhelmed with people requesting to be listed there, and they can't keep up. . .(It took me several months to get a site listed there). This also means that they can't keep up with the links that they do have; therefore the dead links (although in all fairness, this happens with other search engines/directories, all the time. . .) As for the overabundance of commercial sites on Yahoo (I haven't checked this out for myself, btw) . . .think about it. . .they're usually the most agressive in wanting to be listed, for obvious reasons. And if Yahoo is swamped with people wanting to get on, and is falling behind, there's not that much motivation for them to actively search the net looking for stuff to include . . . As for more "library-oriented" Internet directories, there's BUBL LINK (http://bubl.ac.uk/link/) and Internet Public Library (http://www.ipl.org), which attempt to apply varying aspects of the "library" metaphor to a portion of the World Wide Web. However, it still requires continual effort to keep these useful (e.g. no dead links, etc.) From jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu Wed Nov 19 13:43:23 1997 From: jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> from "Karen G. Schneider" at Nov 19, 97 07:53:02 am Message-ID: <199711191843.NAA16804@script.lib.indiana.edu> Another good example is Scout Report at: www.signpost.org Jian > > What intrigues me about Yahoo is that they do it at all. We keep saying in > our profession that we can't possibly have one catalog for the Internet... > we can't possibly organize the Internet... yada yada yada... but how do we > know that? I can think of a number of cmpanies, Yahoo among them, that > believe they can classify the Internet, at least into a rough-sort. Their > work is crude and does not meet the level of classification that > librarianship has accomplished with paper media--your average K-level > record has more access points than any of these tools offer--but if they > can do so much with so little, why CAN'T we organize the 'net? Why > haven't we started with the proposition that this was doable? Why is it > that we accept a mammoth union database like OCLC but can't project this to > the online environment? Why haven't we done our OWN Yahoo, sans the > McInternet stuff? > > I'm going to play make-believe with Librarian's Index to the Internet. LII > is a nice tool--but it is small; this is not a criticism, but an > observation. So let's grow this mustard seed. Apply for grants, take a > pile of money and start hiring. If there were one person assigned to each > subject area, it would be much larger. If each citation had more metadata, > maybe a la the PICS label but used MARCishly for descriptive purposes, it > would take more time to maintain it, so let's double the number of > librarians working on LII. But then let's add some brainiacs to the mix > who figure out how to extract a lot of the information--we'll call it fixed > data--that we now laboriously assign by hand when we catalog books. So now > it's a little faster to do. Now let's tack on a big government grant (kind > of like going public). More staff, better indexing, more money for the > brainiacs to develop better tools for automating organization and > retrieval. Now let's merge the RCLS kid's database with LII for a > children's room (similar to Yahooligans). Another ggrant rolls in, and we > buy up a few more small collections and give 'em the big standardized > reorg. The records also go into Intercat, of course. > > As for the kids, Yahooligans was created to make money for Yahoo; Surfwatch > features a setting which can restrict Surfwatch to the Yahooligans > database, and lame it is, but the concept is interesting, if we are talking > about customizing a database so different users have different resources > presented differently. > > So now we have the LII--perhaps renamed a little more slickly, like > Find-All--beefed up into a non-commercial database, cooperatively > maintained by funding, congruent with existing standards, searchable on its > own or through any library catalog--many views, same data. High public > trust, high quality, all the good stuff we stand for... > > dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the > U.S.; we can't do this? > ______________________________________________ > Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com > Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI > Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association > The Internet Filter Assessment Project: > http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ > Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters > (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) > Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- > From jkuntz at rcls.org Wed Nov 19 14:08:10 1997 From: jkuntz at rcls.org (Jerry Kuntz) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. References: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> Message-ID: <3473391A.A39@rcls.org> Karen G. Schneider wrote: [snip] > More staff, better indexing, more money for the > brainiacs to develop better tools for automating organization and > retrieval. Now let's merge the RCLS kid's database with LII for a > children's room (similar to Yahooligans). Another ggrant rolls in, and we > buy up a few more small collections and give 'em the big standardized > reorg. The records also go into Intercat, of course. > > As for the kids, Yahooligans was created to make money for Yahoo; Surfwatch > features a setting which can restrict Surfwatch to the Yahooligans > database, and lame it is, but the concept is interesting, if we are talking > about customizing a database so different users have different resources > presented differently. > [snip] What Karen is referring to in the above vis a vis RCLS is an LTSA grant that we received to create a children's search engine. We'll be meeting within our system tomorrow to determine the database criteria and layout (we've already decided to go with SWISH-E as the engine). The target size--for the purpose of this grant--is 5000 sites. Not a great amount, but compared to other children's search engines, nothing to sniff at. Sites will be added and indexed through some nice web-based maintenance mechanisms that Roy and his colleagues have developed for SWISH-E. (Some of the grant money is also going to professional graphic design, so we won't be inflicting the web community with more of our chintzy homemade graphics!) If you have a strong opinion as to what sort of structure we should be using--Dublin Core metadata, LC Children's Subject Headings, etc.--we'd love to hear. Immediately. In the context of dicussions about Yahooligans and Yahoo (and other selective guides), yes I think librarians can build a better mousetrap. In the context of the massive robot-indexed search engines, I'd like to hear how librarians think they could improve upon the commercial services. One idea I had (but it's probably not original) is to create a robot-indexed search engine built off of Alta Vista's or Infoseek's top 25,000 most frequently linked URLs; i.e. something like a citation index. Jerry Kuntz Electronic Resources Consultant Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@rcls.org P.S. Beyond the extent of the grant period (1 yr.), I'd imagine we'd be very receptive to merging, collaborating, etc. But for the short term, we acting on our own and on our own initiative. From jcordova at amoxcalli.leon.uia.mx Wed Nov 19 14:19:42 1997 From: jcordova at amoxcalli.leon.uia.mx (Jos\i Manuel C\srdova-Villanueva) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: UNIX listservs/PC listservs Message-ID: Dear Andrew. if for pc you mean a intel running Unix, like Linux, you can find a majordomo listserv that you can compile in Solaris too., we are trying to install this in our Linux box. Majordomo www.greatcircle.com petidomo www.gmd.de Greetings Jm --- On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:34:08 -0800 Andrew Murgas wrote: Does anyone have any UNIX and PC listservs that they highly recommend? I have some collegues who are looking for some decent ones that cover SUN machines as well as PC's. Thanks in advance Andrew R. Murgas Suburban Library System Information Technology Specialist murgasa@sls.lib.il.us ---------------End of Original Message----------------- ---------------------------------------------- José Manuel Córdova-Villanueva Director del Centro de Información Académica Jefe de Redes y Comunicaciones Universidad Iberoamericana León Libramiento Norte Km 3 Ap.p. 1-26 León Guanajuato México 37000 Teléfono (52)(91)4-710-0663 Facsímil (52)(91)4-711-5477 E-mail: José Manuel Córdova-Villanueva Fecha: 11/19/97 Hora: 13:17:54 ------------------------------------- From schugd at cna.org Wed Nov 19 16:37:36 1997 From: schugd at cna.org (Diane Schug) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: UNIX listservs/PC listservs Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971119164137.4bcfe5aa@pop.cna.org> Andrew, I asked one of our UNIX guys, here's his answer: IMHO, majordomo is the best for Unix systems. It can be found at ftp://ftp.greatcircle.com/pub/majordomo. Hope this helps. Diane Schug >Does anyone have any UNIX and PC listservs that they highly recommend? >I have some collegues who are looking for some decent ones that cover >SUN machines as well as PC's. > >Thanks in advance > > >Andrew R. Murgas Suburban Library System >Information Technology Specialist murgasa@sls.lib.il.us > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Diane T. Schug Senior Information Specialist ph: 703-824-2113 The Center for Naval Analyses SchugD@cna.org 4401 Ford Ave fax: 703-824-2200 Alexandria, VA 22302 From anne at yahoo-inc.com Wed Nov 19 18:07:04 1997 From: anne at yahoo-inc.com (Anne Callery) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo! Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > Supposedly Yahoo had librarians doing indexing. The head of it was > a member of this list at one time. I hope she replies. Hi -- I think I am the Yahoo! surfer (cataloger) you remember. I'll try to answer some of the concerns that were raised here... We are still adding a lot of sites to the directory. See for each day's new additions, as well as a few other daily features. We receive thousands of submissions each week, and because we want to make sure we look at each one before adding a listing, it can take a while to process. It's pretty much the same situation for change forms. Re dead links: because Yahoo! contains well over half a million links (over 730,000 at end of the last quarter, September 30, 1997), it's difficult to eliminate all dead links as soon as they become inactive. Nor would we especially want to anyway, because it's in the nature of web sites to occasionally go down temporarily, whether for a few minutes or for a few days. We do run periodic scans of the database and check dead links by hand before deleting them. Sometimes a site has moved, and we just need to change the URL. We also come across these dead links on our own while grooming and maintaining categories. In addition to these methods, we rely on users to let us know if they come across the dead links first. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Anne Callery Yahoo! anne@yahoo-inc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From narnett at verity.com Wed Nov 19 18:16:08 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: UNIX listservs/PC listservs Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971119231608.0112cf7c@verity.com> At 07:34 AM 11/19/97 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have any UNIX and PC listservs that they highly recommend? >I have some collegues who are looking for some decent ones that cover >SUN machines as well as PC's. Listserv (see http://www.lsoft.com/) does just about anything you might imagine. I'm using its least-powerful version (Win95) and it's doing just fine, though I'll migrate it to NT soon. Nick -- Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From NFML at aol.com Wed Nov 19 18:31:32 1997 From: NFML at aol.com (NFML@aol.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Browser usage. Message-ID: <971119183132_177965262@mrin52.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-19 10:15:22 EST, drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU writes: > 1. If people are using Win95, why not use the latest browser? The answers you have already gotten sound pretty accurate. Another is that sometimes the new version adds unwanted "features" and drops desired features. One of our most technically savvy web designers got Netscape 4.0, spent a month trying to get it to work the way *he* wanted it to work and then went back to 3.0 because it was easier to customize. I don't like what I've seen of 4.0 either: they hid the Find command which I use a lot on large text documents, added a Search button which is useless since I already have the specific engines I use bookmarked, added a Guide button which misleads our patrons into thinking that we recommend their sites, ect. From sthomas at library.adelaide.edu.au Wed Nov 19 21:08:26 1997 From: sthomas at library.adelaide.edu.au (Steve Thomas) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971119102051.00b42c24@panix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971120120826.0092f850@library.adelaide.edu.au> At 07:52 AM 97/11/19 -0800, Karen G. Schneider wrote: >... We keep saying in >our profession that we can't possibly have one catalog for the Internet... >we can't possibly organize the Internet... yada yada yada... but how do we >know that? ... Why >haven't we started with the proposition that this was doable? Why is it >that we accept a mammoth union database like OCLC but can't project this to >the online environment? Why haven't we done our OWN Yahoo, sans the >McInternet stuff? >... >dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the >U.S.; we can't do this? Karen raises some good questions, and reasonable suggestions ...but I think (if I've understood her argument) that they may be the wrong questions. This discussion began with "what's wrong with Yahoo?" (or any of the net search engines, for that matter). As I see it, what's wrong primarily is a lack of selection ... the typical search bot just goes out and indexes everything it finds. Does a library collect everything that's printed (or even published) -- of course not. But the search engines do. [Yahoo at least claimed to make some effort at selection, but ...] Add to that the fact that search engines typically convey little useful information about their indexed pages, and you have the current situation: basically, if these were libraries, you'd say their cataloguing was bad and their collection practices were indiscriminate. Now, long before the Internet, libraries were making a pretty good job of cataloguing and indexing published works. With the advent of computers, libraries were able to develop some pretty nifty systems for cataloguing, organising, indexing and retrieving information about their collections. Comes the Internet, then, and suddenly libraries are lost. First we ignored it. Then we abdicated our role to the likes of Lycos and Yahoo. Some of us panicked at predictions of the death of the library. But slowly, slowly, we seem to be coming to grips with the thing, with LC introducing the 856 MARC field, the PURL project and work on METADATA. The other intersting recent development is in Web-interfaced catalogues (e.g. WebPAC), which makes it finally possible to make use of a traditional library catalogue as an indexing tool for Web pages. By including the URL information (via the 856 field), a Web catalogue displays the URL as a link that can take the user directly to the resource. So pretty soon now, I predict a large number of librarians are going to wake up and realise that all we have to do to index the Internet is to use our catalogues: determine which resources are of worth to our customers, and create catalogue records for them. Now of course, "indexing the Internet" is the wrong way to put it, if not impossible. But indexing (or cataloguing) the parts of the Internet which are desirable (by whatever collection criteria we wish to determine) is certainly possible, and most importantly, possible WITH EXISTING PRACTISE. In other words, libraries just continue to do what they've always done, with the only difference being that these things are electronic rather than paper or other 'traditional' media. To me, it seems that there are only two obstacles to overcome here: 1. The 'startup' effort required is huge, even with good selection. I guess this can be solved by grant money (imagine for a moment if the money spent on Yahoo, Alta Vista etc had gone to libraries instead!), and by the usual cooperative effort that libraries excel at. 2. Maintaing currency is a problem, on a scale not previously faced with traditional library collections. If you have a book in the collection today, you should expect to have it many years hence -- barring theft of course. But adding Internet resources to your Catalogue is different, to the extent that you're cataloguing something that you don't physically have, so its currency is out of your control. Good selection will overcome this problem to some extent, because sites worth 'collecting' are more likely to stick around. Initiatives like PURL are going to be critically important here though, since with the best will in the world a Web master cannot guarantee that a URL will never change. But maintaining URLs is not impossible, or even difficult if done right. Finally, and thank you for reading this far, a word about METADATA. Worthy as this idea is, I don't see this as a final answer to the problem (or even close, actually). While some page authors will go to the trouble of adding metadata to their pages, many will not. Are we going to limit cataloguing activity to those pages with metadata? I don't think so, therefore it really becomes a side issue. Additionally, even if there is metadata, are cataloguers likely to accept it at face value? Not the ones I know! E.g. if there's a subject heading, is it LC, or MeSH, or ... what? If its claimed to be LC, is it valid? So the use of metadata is interesting but not the main issue. To conclude then: we don't need another Web search tool. We have the search tools already in our library catalogues. What we need are the records. Thanks for listening. Steve ___________________________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas, Senior Systems Analyst Mail : Barr Smith Library, The University of Adelaide, South Australia 5005 Phone: (08) 8303 5190 Fax: (08) 8303 4369 Email: sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au URL : http://library.adelaide.edu.au/ual/staff/sthomas.html ** Unless otherwise stated, the content of this message reflects only my ** ** own opinion, and not the policy of the University of Adelaide Library.** "I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's" -- William Blake From MVANHOUTEN at PCI.ALBION.EDU Wed Nov 19 20:35:08 1997 From: MVANHOUTEN at PCI.ALBION.EDU (MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? Message-ID: Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something similar? We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Mike Michael Van Houten Head of Public Services Stockwell-Mudd Libraries Albion College 602 E. Cass St. Albion, MI 49224 mvanhouten@albion.edu (517) 629-0382 fax: (517) 629-0504 From danny at calafia.com Wed Nov 19 13:21:22 1997 From: danny at calafia.com (Danny Sullivan) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Is Yahoo! still useful? In-Reply-To: <000CBFC0.1205@aaas.org> Message-ID: <199711200221.TAA06478@calafia.com> > but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really up-to-date. Does anyone > know of any articles or studies on Yahoo! or its content? I've Yes, I did a quite in-depth special report not to long ago. You'll find it at: http://searchenginewatch.com/yahoo/ cheers, danny ----------------------------------- Danny Sullivan, Search Engine Watch http://searchenginewatch.com From absher at lclark.edu Wed Nov 19 22:23:07 1997 From: absher at lclark.edu (Linda Absher) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Locking Down QV Term? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We use QV Term as our telnet app to link to our OPAC for our reference area PCs; one major problem we're having is that the program is allows users to telnet to other domains, which means we get a slew of students coming in to check their e-mail, play MUDs, etc. on our computers. Does anyone know of a way to configure QV Term so only certain designated IP addresses are allowed? We use Windows NT as our platform, if that's helpful to know. Thanks, LInda -- Linda Ueki Absher absher@lclark.edu Reference Librarian (503) 768-7287 FAX: (503) 768-7282 Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 -- "You deserve a longer letter than this; but it is my unhappy fate seldom to treat people so well as they deserve." --Jane Austen From jrichards at megsinet.net Wed Nov 19 16:21:21 1997 From: jrichards at megsinet.net (Jim Richards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? References: Message-ID: <34735851.684D@megsinet.net> MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU wrote: > > Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library > public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are > interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web > pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something similar? > We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several > PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Mike > Michael Van Houten > Head of Public Services > Stockwell-Mudd Libraries > Albion College > 602 E. Cass St. > Albion, MI 49224 > mvanhouten@albion.edu > (517) 629-0382 > fax: (517) 629-0504 We're using the old HP 4L's. They work great especially since the paper tray is somewhat "hidden". If you really want color though, I would suggest looking into the Lexmark line of inkjets. They're quite a bit faster than Epson, Cannon, and HP. They run about the same price too. The only draw back is the cartridges are hard to find. Jim Richards Network Administrator Naperville Public Libraries From jrichards at megsinet.net Wed Nov 19 16:33:18 1997 From: jrichards at megsinet.net (Jim Richards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Books In Print w/ Reviews Plus Message-ID: <34735B1E.6423@megsinet.net> Has anyone had any experience with this product. We've always had a problem with it in Win 3.x but now, we're running Win95 and I cannot get more than one copy to run on the network at the same time. Everytime I do so, I get a GPF. It's a IntraNetware Network w/ Sci-Net for our CD-ROM server software. Jim Richards Network Administrator Naperville Public Libraries From David_Burt at filteringfacts.org Wed Nov 19 22:56:20 1997 From: David_Burt at filteringfacts.org (Filtering Facts) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Family Friendly Libraries Website Message-ID: Family Friendly Libraries now has a website at: www.fflibraries.org ***************************************************************************** David Burt, Filtering Facts, HTTP://WWW.FILTERINGFACTS.ORG David_Burt@filteringfacts.org From jrichards at megsinet.net Wed Nov 19 18:29:20 1997 From: jrichards at megsinet.net (Jim Richards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:16 2005 Subject: Using Netscape 4.04 as an NT 4.0 Custom Shell References: <346F57BF.DA0CE596@dayton.lib.oh.us> Message-ID: <34737650.76D7@megsinet.net> Tim Kambitsch wrote: > > We are a week away from deploying WinNT 4.0 workstations for use by the > public. These will be using Netscape Navigator 4.04 Standalone version. > > Under Windows NT Policy editor you have the ability to define a custom shell. > In my experiments, I've found while I can get Navigator to startup > as the "Custom Shell", when users exit Netscape there is just a blank screen. > There is no way to get back to the application. > > Does anyone know if there is a way to have the custom shell application > restart after its been closed? Try using either the /e or /exit switches at the end of you command line for your shell. I think one of them should work. Jim Richards Network Administrator Naperville Public Libraries From lisias at ukoln.ac.uk Thu Nov 20 05:46:27 1997 From: lisias at ukoln.ac.uk (Isobel Stark) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Ariadne Issue 12 now out! Message-ID: ARIADNE The Web Version issue 12 is now available at: http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue12/ This issue of the web version of Ariadne has its usual crop of features in addition to all the material that you can read in the printed version. The *Librarians' Resources* section takes a look at the all new NISS service, while *Charles Oppenheim* answers even more copyright queries. *Lorcan Dempsey* looks at the latest report on networking public libraries. Three interesting reports on web technologies are included, with *Tracey Stanley* looking at how you can increase your sites ranking in search engines, *Tony Gill and Paul Miller* report back on the latest Dublin Core Metadata conference plus *Brian Kelly* looks at the use of 'fancy' html in the UK HE sector. * Ray Lester's* contribution emphasises the centrality of technology to what information workers will do in the future, and also to how institutions will organise and manage themselves. *Tony Kidd*, and the cover feature by *Jane Henley and Sarah Thompson*, look at the BIDS JournalsOnline service, while *Peter Brophy* calls for effective use of email. *Mary Auckland* offers her personal view of how both the new technology and traditional approaches can be combined, while the interview with *David VandeLinde* reveals his pragmatic approach to some of the recommendations of Dearing. ++++++ Philip Hunter, Information Officer and Co-editor, Ariadne The Web Version email: p.j.hunter@ukoln.ac.uk Isobel Stark, Web Officer and Co-editor, Ariadne The Web Version email: i.a.stark@ukoln.ac.uk UKOLN - The UK Office for Library and Information Networking, c/o Library, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY From rjtiess at juno.com Thu Nov 20 06:45:58 1997 From: rjtiess at juno.com (Robert J Tiess) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? References: Message-ID: <19971120.064723.7815.3.rjtiess@juno.com> MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU writes: >Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library >public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are >interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web >pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something similar? >We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several >PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. >Thanks! We're using several HP 672Cs at our library, and they're both fast (relatively) and cheap ($200). They can print in color, or you can set it to gray, to conserve on the costly color cartridge. Best buy in its class, right now, although there are better printers by this same company. In my office I use the Epson 400 Color, which is nice but way too slow for public access. Robert J. Tiess Middletown Thrall Library http://www.thrall.org From chtodd at seacoast.com Thu Nov 20 08:15:10 1997 From: chtodd at seacoast.com (Julie Meyer & Carl Todd) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Question about Full Armor In-Reply-To: <3470B876.7BF0@camino.delmar.edu> Message-ID: <199711201412.JAA02371@apollo.worx.net> > We're a community college library that also supports a student > technology center. Has anyone used Full Armor [www.fullarmor.com] for > locking down their PCs? Any problems with it? I do not recommend Full Armor. I tried Full Armor about a year ago and quickly broke through the security it offered. I had accidently "locked myself out" while testing it and found that through a security hole in Netscape, I could execute any program even though the icon for the program was "locked". It was very easy to disable the whole thing once File Manager was running. I suppose that if all of the programs you run have no security holes in them, then Full Armor might work for you but I recommend looking at the alternatives. --Carl ________________________________________________________ Carl Todd Reference Department Head Amesbury Public Library 149 Main St, Amesbury MA 01913 (978) 388-8148 todd@mvlc.lib.ma.us From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Thu Nov 20 08:48:49 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: METADATA - What is it? In-Reply-To: <19971120.064723.7815.3.rjtiess@juno.com> Message-ID: I've seen several references recently regarding the inclusion of Metadata in Web Pages. Can someone give a brief summary of what Metadata is all about and what and how we can include it in our pages. Thanks, Andrew Mutch Northville District Library Northville, MI From n2074524 at student.fit.qut.edu.au Thu Nov 20 09:09:28 1997 From: n2074524 at student.fit.qut.edu.au (Ursula Domin) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Thanks [Geopac] Message-ID: Hi all! Just a belated thank you to all those who helped me with my geopac query: I really appreciate it. Regards, Ursula From n2074524 at student.fit.qut.edu.au Thu Nov 20 09:18:48 1997 From: n2074524 at student.fit.qut.edu.au (Ursula Domin) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Catalogue record resources Message-ID: Greetings all: I was just looking for a web-based resource from which we could get catalogue records for those hard to find books? We do search certain other library catalogues for this, however I was wondering if anyone knows of a particularly good source that they use. Thanks in advance for your help Regards, Ursula From LORI at camden.lib.nj.us Thu Nov 20 09:40:33 1997 From: LORI at camden.lib.nj.us (Lori A. Schwabenbauer, Camden County Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Web-based cataloging Message-ID: <971120094033.9031@camden.lib.nj.us> Well put, Steve. With the advent of web-based catalogs, there's no reason not to build a catalog with links to Internet resources. In fact, what if....what if many libraries decided to cooperate in the effort to catalog and maintain records for Internet resources, and built links to *each other's* catalog records via the Internet? Those libraries choosing to participate could agree on a few basic cataloging standards (LCC and/or Dewey, LCSH - how universal are these?) and even the "generic" catalog records produced would be far more valuable than no cataloging at all. Each library could choose some particular subject area for which it would be responsible, and would have to maintain a powerful enough server to allow for the hits from other libraries. Heck, I might catalog web pages just for the fun of it. For a while, at least. All right, so I don't have a life! :^) *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** Lori A. Schwabenbauer 609-772-1636 x3336 Supervisor, Automation Services fax 609-772-6105 Camden County Library lori@camden.lib.nj.us 203 Laurel Road http://www.cyberenet.net/~ccl/ Voorhees, NJ 08043 USA Opinions/ideas/gripes are mine. *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** >At 07:52 AM 97/11/19 -0800, Karen G. Schneider wrote: >>... We keep saying in >>our profession that we can't possibly have one catalog for the Internet... >>we can't possibly organize the Internet... yada yada yada... but how do we >>know that? ... Why >>haven't we started with the proposition that this was doable? Why is it >>that we accept a mammoth union database like OCLC but can't project this to >>the online environment? Why haven't we done our OWN Yahoo, sans the >>McInternet stuff? >>... >>dreaming away in the Northeast... there are over 150,000 librarians in the >>U.S.; we can't do this? > > >Karen raises some good questions, and reasonable suggestions ...but I think >(if I've understood her argument) that they may be the wrong questions. > >This discussion began with "what's wrong with Yahoo?" (or any of the net >search engines, for that matter). As I see it, what's wrong primarily is a >lack of selection ... the typical search bot just goes out and indexes >everything it finds. Does a library collect everything that's printed (or >even published) -- of course not. But the search engines do. [Yahoo at >least claimed to make some effort at selection, but ...] Add to that the >fact that search engines typically convey little useful information about >their indexed pages, and you have the current situation: basically, if >these were libraries, you'd say their cataloguing was bad and their >collection practices were indiscriminate. > >Now, long before the Internet, libraries were making a pretty good job of >cataloguing and indexing published works. With the advent of computers, >libraries were able to develop some pretty nifty systems for cataloguing, >organising, indexing and retrieving information about their collections. > >Comes the Internet, then, and suddenly libraries are lost. First we ignored >it. Then we abdicated our role to the likes of Lycos and Yahoo. Some of us >panicked at predictions of the death of the library. But slowly, slowly, we >seem to be coming to grips with the thing, with LC introducing the 856 MARC >field, the PURL project and work on METADATA. > >The other intersting recent development is in Web-interfaced catalogues >(e.g. WebPAC), which makes it finally possible to make use of a traditional >library catalogue as an indexing tool for Web pages. By including the URL >information (via the 856 field), a Web catalogue displays the URL as a link >that can take the user directly to the resource. > >So pretty soon now, I predict a large number of librarians are going to >wake up and realise that all we have to do to index the Internet is to use >our catalogues: determine which resources are of worth to our customers, >and create catalogue records for them. > >Now of course, "indexing the Internet" is the wrong way to put it, if not >impossible. But indexing (or cataloguing) the parts of the Internet which >are desirable (by whatever collection criteria we wish to determine) is >certainly possible, and most importantly, possible WITH EXISTING PRACTISE. >In other words, libraries just continue to do what they've always done, >with the only difference being that these things are electronic rather than >paper or other 'traditional' media. > >To me, it seems that there are only two obstacles to overcome here: > >1. The 'startup' effort required is huge, even with good selection. I guess >this can be solved by grant money (imagine for a moment if the money spent >on Yahoo, Alta Vista etc had gone to libraries instead!), and by the usual >cooperative effort that libraries excel at. > >2. Maintaing currency is a problem, on a scale not previously faced with >traditional library collections. If you have a book in the collection >today, you should expect to have it many years hence -- barring theft of >course. But adding Internet resources to your Catalogue is different, to >the extent that you're cataloguing something that you don't physically >have, so its currency is out of your control. Good selection will overcome >this problem to some extent, because sites worth 'collecting' are more >likely to stick around. Initiatives like PURL are going to be critically >important here though, since with the best will in the world a Web master >cannot guarantee that a URL will never change. But maintaining URLs is not >impossible, or even difficult if done right. > > >Finally, and thank you for reading this far, a word about METADATA. Worthy >as this idea is, I don't see this as a final answer to the problem (or even >close, actually). While some page authors will go to the trouble of adding >metadata to their pages, many will not. Are we going to limit cataloguing >activity to those pages with metadata? I don't think so, therefore it >really becomes a side issue. Additionally, even if there is metadata, are >cataloguers likely to accept it at face value? Not the ones I know! E.g. if >there's a subject heading, is it LC, or MeSH, or ... what? If its claimed >to be LC, is it valid? So the use of metadata is interesting but not the >main issue. > > >To conclude then: we don't need another Web search tool. We have the search >tools already in our library catalogues. What we need are the records. > > >Thanks for listening. > >Steve > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Stephen Thomas, Senior Systems Analyst > Mail : Barr Smith Library, The University of Adelaide, South Australia 5005 > Phone: (08) 8303 5190 Fax: (08) 8303 4369 > Email: sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au > URL : http://library.adelaide.edu.au/ual/staff/sthomas.html > ** Unless otherwise stated, the content of this message reflects only my ** > ** own opinion, and not the policy of the University of Adelaide Library.** > > "I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's" -- William Blake > From CMUNSON at aaas.org Thu Nov 20 09:51:46 1997 From: CMUNSON at aaas.org (CMUNSON) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo! Message-ID: <000CD619.1205@aaas.org> Anne Callery wrote: >Hi -- I think I am the Yahoo! surfer (cataloger) you remember. I'll try >to answer some of the concerns that were raised here... Anne, thanks for responding to us. >We are still adding a lot of sites to the directory. See > for each day's new additions, as well as a >few other daily features. We receive thousands of submissions each week, >and because we want to make sure we look at each one before adding a >listing, it can take a while to process. It's pretty much the same >situation for change forms. Does Yahoo! have policies about what they WON'T link to? It seems that I've had consistent problems getting Yahoo! to link to parts of my sites that, while they may be lower down on the hierarchy, are still full-fledged "bibliographic" or "intellectual" projects. For example, I run a political site in my free time which has the main page included in Yahoo! and a sub-project called "The TAZ" which is a Yahoo-like index to that political persuasion. I've also had similar problems with work-related sites. The site also has an e-zine, which is one of the original e-zines, and I've had difficulty getting that added. Finally, I'm bewildered that a alternative newswire page that is at the site which contains news articles from a variety of alternative news services, can't get a link in Yahoo!s "Newswire" section. >We do run periodic scans of the database and check dead links by hand >before deleting them. Sometimes a site has moved, and we just need to >change the URL. We also come across these dead links on our own while >grooming and maintaining categories. In addition to these methods, we >rely on users to let us know if they come across the dead links first. You all should be commended for all the work you do. I find Yahoo! to be one of my favorite web sites and I've been surfing since mid-1993. One final aside, can you shed any light on why the anarchist stuff was moved from Government:Politics:Political Opinion:Anarchism to Arts:Humanities:Philosophy:Political Theory:Anarchism? Revolting webmasters want to know. ;-) Chuck0 From tiller at data.lib.udayton.edu Thu Nov 20 10:02:20 1997 From: tiller at data.lib.udayton.edu (Kathleen Tiller) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: IS Midwinter fourm Message-ID: <1AEFAE7E3B@data.lib.udayton.edu> Please excuse duplicate postings on other lists. Plan to participate in two ALA Midwinter Conference discussion forums, both sponsored by the ACRL Instruction Section. Mark your calendars now for Sunday, January 11, 1998. Check the conference program for forum locations. NATIONAL INFORMATION LITERACY INSTITUTE DISCUSSION FORUM Come to hear about the recent planning that has taken place for the National Information Literacy Institute (NILI). The forum will be on Sunday, January 11, 1998, 11:30am - 12:30pm. Cerise Oberman will give a brief overview of the Planning Day and progress to date. Take this opportunity to provide input to the planning group. Participate in the discussion on what it might be, how it might be put into effect, models that would be helpful to examine, potential partners, and other topics! Join us for an exciting discussion on the future of a new Institute! ACRL/INSTRUCTION SECTION MIDWINTER DISCUSSION FORUM 1998 The 1998 IS Midwinter Discussion Forum topic is "Managing the Wired Classroom: Demands and Expectations." It will be held Sunday, January 11 from 4:30pm - 5:30pm. Come to share your thoughts and experiences in this area of emerging importance for managers of instruction services and instruction librarians. The discussion will focus on library instruction programs' management implications for staff training, workload distribution, and classroom use issues. Discussion forums are meant to be shared so be ready to contribute your insights and experiences to questions such as: What is your role as a manager to provide training for librarians teaching in hands-on labs and distance learning environments? What about training needs for presentation software and instructional material design? How many teaching staff are needed to help students in a hands-on setting? How do managers counter the commonly held belief of some administrators that using technology decreases staffing needs? How do managers deal with pressure from administrators to have the room used constantly? This annual event is sponsored jointly by the IS's Management of Instruction Services and Continuing Education Committees. Please share this posting with any and all colleagues who might also be interested. Kathleen Tiller Roesch Library tiller@data.lib.udayton.edu University of Dayton (937) 229-4274 Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360 Library Home Page http://www.udayton.edu/~library "The swiftest traveler is he that goes afoot" -- Thoreau From hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU Thu Nov 20 10:04:55 1997 From: hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU (Steve Hooley) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971120100702.3f474f70@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> We've had trouble with HP Deskjet 680Cs for this kind of use - the costly color cartridge primes itself with each reboot, then if no color is ever printed, begins to gum up. Eventually the priming operation fails and the printer stalls, demanding a new color cartridge before it prints B&W again. We've had good luck with 600 and 600C printers - but we've decided to get B&W-ONLY printers next time for B&W applications. >MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU writes: >>Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library >>public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are >>interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web >>pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something >similar? >>We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several >>PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. >>Thanks! > >We're using several HP 672Cs at our library, and they're both fast >(relatively) and cheap ($200). They can print in color, or you can set >it to gray, to conserve on the costly color cartridge. Best buy in its >class, right now, although there are better printers by this same >company. In my office I use the Epson 400 Color, which is nice but >way too slow for public access. > >Robert J. Tiess >Middletown Thrall Library >http://www.thrall.org > > > *+============================* | Stephen S. Hooley | Statesboro Ga | Romulan Technician | Home of the | Henderson Library | Statesboro |"It's Only a Job Description"| Blues | Georgia Southern University |www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/hooleyss +=============================+ Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Nov 20 10:48:31 1997 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do Message-ID: Despite my seemingly positive comments about Yahoo a few days ago, it's been pretty obvious for a long time that Yahoo is a dinosaur (but, like it or not, a very heavily used dinosaur!). One of the motivating factors in in the development of the Hardin Meta Directory of Internet Health Sources (see URL in signature) was that even 2 years ago, when the Hardin MD (HMD) was started, Yahoo was obviously inadequate. Its lists of links in health and medicine were clearly much less comprehensive than other (generally little-known) lists maintained by subject specialists. So the HMD was launched as an access point to the lists that really did do what everyone thought Yahoo did, which is to provide access to the most comprehensive lists of links in the field. In this discussion, some have suggested that librarians should take on the job that Yahoo attempts, to be the world's list keepers. Realistically, I think this is too big a job, a hugely time-consuming task (As a start, I have found out in correspondence with keepers of the best lists in the Hardin MD that the lists with the best connection rates have their links checked regularly *by hand* - not with an automated link checking program - so before undertaking a list, set aside some time for clicking links - Some of the subject lists in the HMD have over 1000 links!). I would suggest that a task that IS within the grasp of librarians is to create gateways to the "cream of the link lists" that already exist, as we've done with the Hardin MD. (The Argus Clearinghouse is a good start in doing this, but in attempting to cover all subjects, it lacks depth of coverage when compared to a specialized meta-list, like the HMD). One of the incidental benefits of the HMD is that it shows clearly the limitation of Yahoo - HMD pages list Yahoo along with other lists, ranked more/less in the order of size/quality, and it's obvious at a glance that Yahoo is a very minor player in the field. I would invite people to have a look at the HMD, and to consider doing something similar in other subjects. We've developed some fairly specific methods for evaluating lists that are included in the HMD (including use of link checking software, which does have its place, even though it certainly has limitations). I'd be glad to discuss these methods with anyone interested (probably too specialized for discussion on the list). * * * * * * * * * Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) Hardin Meta Directory of Internet Health Sources http://www.arcade.uiowa.edu/hardin-www/md.html Featured in Internet Medicine (Lippincott-Raven), June 1997 Reviewed in Consumer Reports, Feb 1997, p 29 From r_lowe at fre.fsu.umd.edu Thu Nov 20 10:55:40 1997 From: r_lowe at fre.fsu.umd.edu (r_lowe@fre.fsu.umd.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: User Verification Message-ID: <009BD92B.4E61B900.258@fre.fsu.umd.edu> At our Library, we are looking for software that would help us to verify users before running an application on a _stand alone_ PC. Basically, we want to have students and staff in our library be prompted for name, user id# or both before using a particular application. Since we don't have the ability to do user verification over a Library LAN at the current time, we are simply looking to do this on one PC right now. Thanks - Randall A. Lowe Frostburg State University Lewis J. Ort Library Frostburg, MD 21532 r_lowe@fre.fsu.umd.edu From langjf at email.uc.edu Thu Nov 20 14:00:52 1997 From: langjf at email.uc.edu (Jennifer Lang) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Public Workstations Inappropriate Use Message-ID: <347488E4.F42@email.uc.edu> Our university library has several public WWW workstations. Lately, we've experienced problems with local high school students using the workstations to view objectionable (i.e., nude photographs, XXX websites, etc.) materials. Also, because the public library imposes time limits on their WWW computers, we have seen an increased number of local citizens (non-university) using our workstations for recreational purposes. We certainly do not want to practice any sort of censorship, nor do we want to discourage the local community from using our resources; however, these workstations were set up for research purposes for use by students, faculty and staff. We are considering drafting an acceptable use policy but are concerned that this may not be sufficient to prohibit non-university users from using these workstations inappropriately. Has anyone had a similar experience at a university library? If so, we would be interested to hear how you are dealing with (have dealt with) this issue. Thanks. Jennifer Lang Visiting Librarian Langsam Library University of Cincinnati Cincinnati, OH 45221-0033 (513) 556-1856 langjf@email.uc.edu From spearce at ilalpha.infolink.org Thu Nov 20 07:45:36 1997 From: spearce at ilalpha.infolink.org (spearce@ilalpha.infolink.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Which way to go? - In-Reply-To: <97Nov19.110330est.40321@firewall.ssc.nsw.gov.au> Message-ID: <9711201641.AA19412@ilalpha.infolink.org> I'm also in the same boat, having just joined the list. Is there an a FAQ or an arhcive for the list so I can catch up on this back information which is so important to me Sue spearce@infolink.org From leita at netcom.com Thu Nov 20 11:47:57 1997 From: leita at netcom.com (Carole Leita) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971120084756.008d08b0@netcom.com> What a timely discussion! Thanks to Chuck Munson for bringing up the topic of comprehensive subject guides to the Internet and to several others for mentioning the Librarians' Index to the Internet (LII). As original developer of the LII (from my Gopher bookmark list to the Berkeley Public Library Index to the Internet to the LII) and now coordinator of a project (funded through the California State Library with LSTA monies) to expand it, it's time to talk a little about what's coming for the Index. Over the next year we will be expanding the team of librarians contributing to the Index, building from a base of interested librarians in California. We will be working on several things: a manual for the indexers, training workshops, further development of the indexing and searching abilities of the database, and expansion of the Index contents. The basic idea is to see if librarians can produce AND maintain a directory of Internet resources consistently useful to public library information seekers. We will also be looking at the financial implications of managing such an effort. Finally, if our efforts over the next several months are successful, we will be looking at the possibility of recruiting indexers from outside California. Carole Carole Leita, cleita@webjunction.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/InternetIndex/ From absher at lclark.edu Thu Nov 20 11:59:18 1997 From: absher at lclark.edu (Linda Absher) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Correction--QVT Term In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just wanted to correct an error: the correct name of the telnet app I called "QV Term" is QVT Term. My apologies. LInda On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Linda Absher wrote: > > We use QV Term as our telnet app to link to our OPAC for our reference > area PCs; one major problem we're having is that the program is allows > users to telnet to other domains, which means we get a slew of students > coming in to check their e-mail, play MUDs, etc. on our computers. Does > anyone know of a way to configure QV Term so only certain designated IP > addresses are allowed? We use Windows NT as our platform, if that's > helpful to know. > > Thanks, > LInda > > -- > Linda Ueki Absher absher@lclark.edu > Reference Librarian (503) 768-7287 FAX: (503) 768-7282 > Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 > -- > "You deserve a longer letter than this; but it is my unhappy fate seldom > to treat people so well as they deserve." --Jane Austen > > -- Linda Ueki Absher absher@lclark.edu Reference Librarian (503) 768-7287 FAX: (503) 768-7282 Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 -- "You deserve a longer letter than this; but it is my unhappy fate seldom to treat people so well as they deserve." --Jane Austen From Nancy_Hellekson at pegasus.putney.com Thu Nov 20 06:23:47 1997 From: Nancy_Hellekson at pegasus.putney.com (Nancy_Hellekson@pegasus.putney.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Catalogue record resources Message-ID: <199711201710.MAA19358@clover.sover.net> I use the Library of Congress Experimental Catalog : http://lcweb2.loc.gov/resdev/ess/ Nancy Hellekson From dmoore at robles.callutheran.edu Thu Nov 20 12:57:30 1997 From: dmoore at robles.callutheran.edu (Deborah Moore) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: A good "Advanced HTML" guide Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971120095730.009234d0@robles.callutheran.edu> I'm looking to buy a good "Advanced HTML" guide, so I'm hoping to get some suggestions. What are people using? Which is your favorite and why? I'm currently using the "HTML Sourcebook" 3rd edition by Ian S. Graham, but it isn't advanced enough for my needs. I'm particularly interested in learning more about frames and forms. Good web sites covering these topics are also greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Deborah _____________________________________________ Deborah J. Moore Information Specialist California Lutheran University 60 W. Olsen Road Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 (805) 493-3927 dmoore@clunet.edu _____________________________________________ From narnett at verity.com Thu Nov 20 13:41:36 1997 From: narnett at verity.com (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Web-based cataloging Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971120184136.0102ffac@verity.com> At 08:45 AM 11/20/97 -0800, Lori A. Schwabenbauer, Camden County Library wrote: >Well put, Steve. With the advent of web-based catalogs, there's no reason not >to build a catalog with links to Internet resources. In fact, what if....what >if many libraries decided to cooperate in the effort to catalog and maintain >records for Internet resources, and built links to *each other's* catalog >records via the Internet? I hate to allude to vaporware, but since it came up... we're quite interested in supporting such a project, particularly among academic and public libraries, starting next spring. We've already begun discussions with one of the large universities with which we have an affiliation. Some of you have seen at talks I've given in the last few months the software tools we've developed for this kind of work. Nick -- Product Manager, Knowledge Applications Verity Inc. (http://www.verity.com/) "Connecting People with Information" Phone: (408) 542-2164 E-mail: narnett@verity.com From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Nov 20 14:09:54 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do References: Message-ID: <34748B02.450332EA@morrisville.edu> I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We should be concentrating on developing the subject guides as suggested by Eric Rumsey. Several years ago after I wrote Not Just Cows I issued a challenge on PACS-L suggesting that each librarian and/or library pick a subject and create a highly selective guide to online resources. My challenge was pretty much ignored. Not Just Cows is such a guide. It is highly selective and does tend to reflect my likes and dislikes. Why can't each one of us select a narrow or broad subject and create a selective yet comprehensive guide to internet/online resources? We used top write such things about the print literature. They are called bibliographies. -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ -- From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Thu Nov 20 14:23:43 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971120100702.3f474f70@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> Message-ID: Well what I'd suggest concerning the 680 models is to take out the color cartridge... .......................................................................... Vladislav S. Davidzon davidzon@tech-center.com Technology Assistant Farmington Community Library Phone: (248) 553-0300 Fax: (248) 553-3228 32737 W. 12 Mile Road Farmington Hills, MI 48334 "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us" - Oliver Wendell Holmes All opinions are my opinions only, and not those of any organizations I am associated with, unless otherwise specified. .......................................................................... On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Steve Hooley wrote: > We've had trouble with HP Deskjet 680Cs for this kind of use - the > costly color cartridge primes itself with each reboot, then if no color is > ever printed, begins to gum up. Eventually the priming operation fails and > the printer stalls, demanding a new color cartridge before it prints B&W > again. We've had good luck with 600 and 600C printers - but we've decided to > get B&W-ONLY printers next time for B&W applications. > > >MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU writes: > >>Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library > >>public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are > >>interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web > >>pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something > >similar? > >>We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several > >>PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. > >>Thanks! > > > >We're using several HP 672Cs at our library, and they're both fast > >(relatively) and cheap ($200). They can print in color, or you can set > >it to gray, to conserve on the costly color cartridge. Best buy in its > >class, right now, although there are better printers by this same > >company. In my office I use the Epson 400 Color, which is nice but > >way too slow for public access. > > > >Robert J. Tiess > >Middletown Thrall Library > >http://www.thrall.org > > > > > > > > *+============================* > | Stephen S. Hooley | Statesboro Ga > | Romulan Technician | Home of the > | Henderson Library | Statesboro > |"It's Only a Job Description"| Blues > | Georgia Southern University |www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/hooleyss > +=============================+ > Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? > > From hgrady at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Thu Nov 20 14:32:29 1997 From: hgrady at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Heather Grady) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: CAPITALIZATION in search engines In-Reply-To: <9711201641.AA19412@ilalpha.infolink.org> Message-ID: I don't know if any of you know about "Free Pint" a biweekly email newsletter. This week's has a section which addresses Capitalization in search engines along with other forms of uniformity. I thought it pertained well to the thread of the search engine discussion of last week. The url is http://www.freepint.co.uk/ I think you can access a copy of the newsletter there without subscribing. If anyone wants a copy, I can forward mine to individuals or to the whole list. Hope this helps the discussion! Heather Grady <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> Heather A. Grady Graduate Student in Library Science, University of Illinois Graduate Student Assistant--Applied Life Studies Library Http://www.library.uiuc.edu/alx/ (ALS Page) HGrady@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu <<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> From carol at ohionet.org Thu Nov 20 15:23:23 1997 From: carol at ohionet.org (Carol Ritzenthaler) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: A good "Advanced HTML" guide In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971120095730.009234d0@robles.callutheran.edu> Message-ID: Hi Deborah - I'm always on the lookout for good resources and have created links to the ones I've found most useful. Check out the resources under "Tips & Tools For Constructing a Home Page" at http://www.ohionet.org/~carol. Hope this helps. Carol *****************************************************************************m Carol L. Ritzenthaler, M.Ed, MLS phone: 614-486-2966 ext.23 OCLC Services Coordinator, Internet 1-800-686-8975 (OH,PA,MI,& WV) Trainer & Web Page Design Consultant fax: 614-486-1527 ****************************************************************************** On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Deborah Moore wrote: > I'm looking to buy a good "Advanced HTML" guide, so I'm hoping to get some > suggestions. What are people using? Which is your favorite and why? > > I'm currently using the "HTML Sourcebook" 3rd edition by Ian S. Graham, but > it isn't advanced enough for my needs. I'm particularly interested in > learning more about frames and forms. > > Good web sites covering these topics are also greatly appreciated. Thanks > in advance for your suggestions. > > Deborah > _____________________________________________ > > Deborah J. Moore > Information Specialist > California Lutheran University > 60 W. Olsen Road > Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 > (805) 493-3927 > dmoore@clunet.edu > _____________________________________________ > From dwhelan at mail.smu.edu Thu Nov 20 15:25:36 1997 From: dwhelan at mail.smu.edu (David Whelan) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: A good "Advanced HTML" guide References: <3.0.2.32.19971120095730.009234d0@robles.callutheran.edu> Message-ID: <34749CC0.80E0AD4@mail.smu.edu> I've found "Mastering HTML 4.0", by Deborah and Eric Ray and published by Sybex (ISBN: 0782121020). It handles DHTML and Style Sheets as well as a wide spectrum of HTML, javascript, and some CGI tips. The accompanying CD also has some nice web tools (tho' mostly demos, including Linkbot, NetObjects Fusion, and Webwhacker). David. __________________________________________________________________ David P. Whelan Underwood Law Library Electronic Services Librarian Southern Methodist University School of Law Dallas, Texas 75275-0354 E-mail: dwhelan@mail.smu.edu (V) 214.768.1820 Home Page: http://www.smu.edu/~dwhelan (F) 214.768.4330 __________________________________________________________________ From langjf at email.uc.edu Thu Nov 20 18:31:18 1997 From: langjf at email.uc.edu (Jennifer Lang) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Public Workstations Inappropriate Use Message-ID: <3474C846.7A7@email.uc.edu> Regarding my earlier posting about how to curtail inappropriate use of WWW workstations in our library, I forgot to mention that we are a public university. Sorry... Jennifer Lang Visiting Librarian Langsam Library University of Cincinnati Cincinnati, OH 45221-0033 (513) 556-1856 langjf@email.uc.edu ------>My original message: >Our university library has several public WWW workstations. Lately, >we've experienced problems with local high school students using the >workstations to view objectionable (i.e., nude photographs, XXX >websites, etc.) materials. Also, because the public library imposes time >limits on their WWW computers, we have seen an increased number of local >citizens (non-university) using our workstations for recreational >purposes. > >We certainly do not want to practice any sort of censorship, nor do we >want to discourage the local community from using our resources; >however, these workstations were set up for research purposes for use by >students, faculty and staff. We are considering drafting an acceptable >use policy but are concerned that this may not be sufficient to prohibit >non-university users from using these workstations inappropriately. > >Has anyone had a similar experience at a university library? If so, we >would be interested to hear how you are dealing with (have dealt with) >this issue. Thanks. From lou at argus-inc.com Thu Nov 20 15:33:53 1997 From: lou at argus-inc.com (Louis Rosenfeld) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do In-Reply-To: <34748B02.450332EA@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Wilfred Drew wrote: > I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We should be > concentrating on developing the subject guides as suggested by Eric > Rumsey. Several years ago after I wrote Not Just Cows I issued a > challenge on PACS-L suggesting that each librarian and/or library pick a > subject and create a highly selective guide to online resources. My > challenge was pretty much ignored. Not Just Cows is such a guide. It > is highly selective and does tend to reflect my likes and dislikes. Why > can't each one of us select a narrow or broad subject and create a > selective yet comprehensive guide to internet/online resources? We used > top write such things about the print literature. They are called > bibliographies. Let me add that one of the primary reasons we created the Argus Clearinghouse back in 1993 (then the Clearinghouse for Subject-Oriented Internet Resource Guides) was precisely in response to pioneering guides like Not Just Cows. Should you decide to pick up Bill's gauntlet, please submit your guide for inclusion in the Argus Clearinghouse (http://www.clearinghouse.net). Louis Rosenfeld lou@argus-inc.com Argus Associates, Inc. http://argus-inc.com 109 Catherine Street voice: +1.313.913.0010 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA fax: +1.313.213.8082 Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (L. Rosenfeld & P. Morville) O'Reilly & Associates; Jan 1998. http://www.ora.com/catalog/infotecture/ From merrynk at ola.bc.ca Thu Nov 20 14:38:12 1997 From: merrynk at ola.bc.ca (Merryn Kloepfer) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Problem printing Links Message-ID: <3835232254.221724@ola.bc.ca> Hello Web4Lib'ers, I wonder if other people have encountered the same problem and have an explanation. Some users I know have asked why the links won't show when they print web pages viewed with Netscape Communicator. On the page they have printed will appear all the text, except links are represented by an underline with no text. Thanking you in advance Merryn Kloepfer ----------------------------------------------------------------- Open Learning Agency 4355 Mathissi Place, Burnaby, B.C. Canada, V5G 4S8 (604) 431-3000 From perez at opac.osl.state.or.us Thu Nov 20 16:46:47 1997 From: perez at opac.osl.state.or.us (Ernest Perez) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Catalogue record resources] Message-ID: <3474AFC7.39220FAD@opac.osl.state.or.us> Ursula Domin wrote: > I was just looking for a web-based resource from which we could get > catalogue records for those hard to find books? We do search certain other > library catalogues for this, however I was wondering if anyone knows of a > particularly good source that they use. The U.S. Library of Congress is both comprehensive and, incidentally, completely legal to use as a cataloque record source. Use their ""Library of Congress WWW/Z39.50 Gateway" at , and select the link for "Advanced Search (multiple terms using Boolean operators)". Once you're into the Form query, click on TAGGED as the Preferred Record Display format. You'll get a MARC record display, where you can clip & paste the record minus system prompts, and put it into a simple editor for local storage. You can then easily convert this data to load into a catalog/database. For example, I've recently been using "Data Magician" , to convert for loading into an InMagic catalog database, running on a PC, for a local church library. Legal to copy LC records for use locally? Or is it copyrighted OCLC, etc., etc. Yes, it is legal and ethical. I called the LC CDS (Card Distribution Service) office to ask about it. CDS head Peter Young assured me that it was quite alright. Cheers, -ernest Ernest Perez, Ph.D. Oregon State Library perez@opac.osl.state.or.us 503-378-4243, xt 257 ----------------------------------------------- In my day, we couldn't afford shoes, so we went barefoot. In the winter we had to wrap our feet with barbed wire for traction. (Washington Post "In My Day" contest, Bill Flavin, Alexandria VA) From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Nov 20 15:36:46 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo, metadata In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971120153646.0078e470@panix.com> (To the tune of "Thumbelina") Metadata, metadata, tiny little thing; Metadata dance, metadata sing... Seriously, Stephen Thomas raises excellent issues, none of which I argue with. A cursory review of Bib Formats (y'all still take cataloging in library school, right?) confirms we DO have existing practices--e.g. Intercat, etc. I am a brave woman who has sat through a MARBI meeting to hear catalogers carefully discuss the innards of the MARC fields related to electronic resources, and let me tell you they are fast-moving and reten--I mean, attentive folks. Bless those catalogers. However, we do NOT have existing money or guidance. As Stephen Thomas didn't say, "show me the records!" (What HAS gotten into me today?) I do think that if we took the labor used to make all the redundant and--in relation to how we organize other information--somewhat primitive finding aids floating around, we would have a pool of resources for cataloging electronic resources. In some ways I think we're on the cusp of a place we have been to before in our profession--when the Anglo American Cataloging Rules were developed, and all those disparate methods were (pretty much) standardized into the guidance that allows us to have such fantastic tools such as OCLC. (This is not to be critical of some of the interesting projects cited yesterday, many of which may fall into the important Brainiac's Playground category, or of useful aggregates of information, such as the IMDB recently cited.) But for some reason when we talk about cooperative cataloging, we think about books, not electronic resources. Why? Or perhaps the operative question (since we all kinda KNOW why) is what now? Howsoever... to clarify something... the MARC record IS metadata! Every original record in OCLC, RLIN or WLN is a new metadata record. It isn't designed to be attached to the thing it describes, mostly, because such a thing was impossible when these massive cooperative catalogs were designed, not because that's ideal. You can't merge an electronic record with a paper book. You couldn't even make a paper catalog card attach itself to the book. At the time, you couldn't even THINK that way. But you CAN use a record to describe a website, and it can attach and/or point to what it describes. I don't have the expertise to say whether it is better for the metadata to be separate, connected, redundant, or be able to sing; I just dunno. At any rate, every new record entered in a bib utility such as OCLC for an electronic resource is another potential link from a web-based OPAC. Current Cites recently lauded librarian/LITA member Amanda Xu for an article she wrote on a radical new tool for accessing information--the OPAC! Is this the revolution of the fin de siecle? I'm all for it! What do we want? MORE CATALOGING! When do we want it? NOW! Access for the masses! Re some other questions I got yesterday. (Oh oh, watch out, I have a MASTERS in LIBRARY SCIENCE... beware! "Nurse Internet" strikes!) Someone asked, which standard? How would I know? But anyway, I know that there is a MARC/Dublin Core cross-walk. So are we really talking standards, or technology for accessing the metadata? Someone asked me what standard PICS uses. That's what's interesting about PICS... it doesn't describe metadata; it's a specification for enabling standardized description of content. With the RSACi ratings for sex, violence and nudity, the TIFAP website is: n=nudity; s=sex; v=violence; l=language. But this is arbitrary (as all descriptive tools, from alphabetical order to LCSH, are arbitrary), and is related to the RSACi ratings (see http://www.rsac.org)--not to PICS itself, which *does not describe content.* There's no reason why there couldn't be a MARC standard interpreted for the PICS label (though its fields would be much longer). An interesting thing about PICS labels is that they do NOT have to be imbedded in the document they describe (though they can be). (This also means there is no limit to the number of PICS labels that can be used to describe a resource, at least as far as I know; the TIFAP main page has two built-in, and presumably any other label bureau could create another label for it.) The retrieval tool determines which PICS label is operative--so even if there were a zillion PICS labels available for any one resource, if your OPAC specified the XYZ labels, that is what would be operative. Like OCLC records, PICS could include Dewey and LC, use standard language, and include all kinds of information, some of which (as I have suggested) could perhaps be automatically generated (again, because the medium allows it; books can't do that because they're made of paper). OCLC, as has been discussed on this list, has done some interesting stuff involving automatic assignment of metadata. The fact that these projects are still not quite ready for prime time is not meaningful, because I wouldn't expect such experimental technology to work right for the first umpty-ump iterations. That's why it's experimental. The tweedy folks at OCLC are doing good stuff for us, even if they don't know how to market it. I bet, furthermore, PICS labels could be *generated* from MARC records. Would we want to do that, in lieu of or in conjunction with more traditional cataloging of Internet resources? Why would that be useful? Heck, again, I dunno. I'm not Seymour Lubetsky; I don't even play him on TV. Maybe, with our existing cataloging tools, we have always had all the tools we ever needed, except for money, direction and momentum. ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From moffitt at sfuhs.pvt.k12.ca.us Thu Nov 20 17:01:39 1997 From: moffitt at sfuhs.pvt.k12.ca.us (Bess Moffitt) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo, LII, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971120084756.008d08b0@netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971120140139.009272a0@mail.sfuhs.pvt.k12.ca.us> I am a fan of the Librarians' Index to the Internet I use it *very* frequently when compiling "webliographies" for particular topics. Often teachers want to bring students to the library to do topical searches and give us a day's notice. The pre-screeened sites also help me save time. The LII has a miniscule number of dead links. When I have encountered a dead link, I e-mail Carole Leita. She has always replied within one day with a correction and thanks. Bess Moffitt ***************************** At 11:33 AM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >What a timely discussion! Thanks to Chuck Munson for bringing up the topic >of comprehensive subject guides to the Internet and to several others for >mentioning the Librarians' Index to the Internet (LII). > >As original developer of the LII (from my Gopher bookmark list to the >Berkeley Public Library Index to the Internet to the LII) and now >coordinator of a project (funded through the California State Library with >LSTA monies) to expand it, it's time to talk a little about what's coming >for the Index. > >Over the next year we will be expanding the team of librarians contributing >to the Index, building from a base of interested librarians in California. >We will be working on several things: a manual for the indexers, training >workshops, further development of the indexing and searching abilities of >the database, and expansion of the Index contents. The basic idea is to see >if librarians can produce AND maintain a directory of Internet resources >consistently useful to public library information seekers. We will also be >looking at the financial implications of managing such an effort. Finally, >if our efforts over the next several months are successful, we will be >looking at the possibility of recruiting indexers from outside California. > >Carole > >Carole Leita, cleita@webjunction.org >Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/InternetIndex/ > ********************************************************* Bess Moffitt "So many books, so little time." Assistant Librarian San Francisco University High School 3065 Jackson St. San Francisco, CA 94115 VOICE: 415-447-3124 FAX: 415-447-5801 E-MAIL: moffitt@sfuhs.pvt.k12.ca.us From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Thu Nov 20 17:43:57 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Web Page Editing -- Buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, John Rosenhamer wrote: > I'm working on new pages for our library, and I would like to include > some large buttons. These need be large enough to hold their title. I think > I want to put them along the left edge in a frame. > > How can I get the buttons, or make the buttons. If you just want a simple, 3D looking button without any special fanciness, you can make a simple one-function form using code similar to the following:
take me away!
It works best when all titles are of the same length and relatively short. Byron Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From perez at opac.osl.state.or.us Thu Nov 20 18:29:39 1997 From: perez at opac.osl.state.or.us (Ernest Perez) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do References: <34748B02.450332EA@morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <3474C7E3.9D3BAE3D@opac.osl.state.or.us> Wilfred Drew wrote: > > I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We should be > concentrating on developing the subject guides as suggested by Eric > Rumsey. Several years ago after I wrote Not Just Cows I issued a > challenge on PACS-L suggesting that each librarian and/or library pick a > subject and create a highly selective guide to online resources. My > challenge was pretty much ignored. Not Just Cows is such a guide. It > is highly selective and does tend to reflect my likes and dislikes. Why > can't each one of us select a narrow or broad subject and create a > selective yet comprehensive guide to internet/online resources? We used > top write such things about the print literature. They are called > bibliographies. I agree with Wilfred about the folly of trying to catalog the Internet. This is really a classic Herculean task, and for sure not suited to non-funded do-gooder volunteers. Who's gonna RUN such a project, fund the system, provide for editing, quality control, marketing, tech support, etc.? I mean, NSF projects are grant-funded, not volunteer affairs. And all of us who are non-profit/public funded, how to rationalize taking time & effort away from your organizational mission and target audience? I agree that librarians have great skills in building information access systems. But it seems to me that this work is best aimed at individuals and local/specialized audiences, who are finite and manageable targets. I also think that librarians are CONSUMERS and intermediaries for consumers of intellectual products. We don't print or produce the corpus literature; we use it. Same for big finding tools. We don't produce Britannica, Engineering Index, Books in Print, Science Citation Index, we're expert in USING them. Fantasizing about national voluntary projects to catalog "cyberspace" is kind of unreal. This kind of an effort takes labor and time and cashflow and capital money! We're not in a 1940s Andy Hardy movie. ("I have an idea! Let's put on a show!") It would be nice if someone got a wondrous Daddy Warbucks grant to do something like this. If someone succeeds in this, let me know; I'd probably be interested in hiring on. But I'm sure the qualified librarian/info science types who do work for operations like IAC, Wilson Indexes, Dialog, etc., would not choose to be there if those were strictly volunteer operations. Cheers, -ernest Ernest Perez, Ph.D./Oregon State Library/perez@opac.state.or.us/503-378-4243 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Librarian's Caveat: We have not succeeded in answering all your questions. Indeed, we sometimes feel we have not completely answered any of them. The answers we have given only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways you are as confused as ever, but we believe you are confused on a much higher level and about more important things . -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Nov 20 19:50:30 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971120195030.00c87554@panix.com> Regarding E. Perez' comments: there are other options between trying to pull off a free cataloging effort and waiting for a massive Daddy Warbucks grant. Many good projects start small and work their way up, demonstrating their worth, competing with other, bigger projects, and so forth. OCLC started in 1967 in the Main Library of OSU, according to its own website; pretty modest beginnings for a database that now holds 36 million records (and grows by 2 million a year). It's also true that there ARE Internet cataloging projects afoot, and in their own ways they are all funded. Very few posters--maybe only one--suggested that such projects be sustained with free labor. Now, if you think that every project needs to start as a deluxe Cadillac with all the geegaws, you may not be happy with something smaller and leaner. But giant trees from tiny seeds do grow, and that ain't hopeless optimism, it's hard science. Given the right nutrients, at the right time, growth happens. All the pessimism and nay-saying in the world won't prevent a tree from growing if it has what it needs to do so. The idea of cataloging the Internet is only Herculean if you think of the entire Internet. It is not Herculean if you think of cataloging those resources you want access through your OPAC today--and more tomorrow--and more the following day. It's not as if there aren't ANY websites cataloged; there just aren't nearly ENOUGH. And that's with very, very little attention or resources directed toward Internet cataloging. Since the idea of cataloging the Internet has been poo-poohed, let us examine it. If there are 4.3 million live hosts--a figure I was given this summer by a reliable source, wth the usual caveats; these were hosts responding to alive & well checks in a given period--and there are approximately 150,000 librarians in the U.S., if this were a project solely absorbed by U.S. librarians, that would be 30 websites per librarian for original cataloging, just to play catch-up. This does not take into account maintaining new sites, or that some hosts have many discrete intellectual resources on them, or the labor of copy-cataloging, if such a thing is required of web resources, or the artificial idea of every librarian doing original cataloging, or the labor of following moved and changed sites. On the other hand, it does not take into account the (undeniably small) number of websites that have already been cataloged, or the number of websites that may be alive but have no content or are mirror sites, or the availability of librarian-built finding aids for identifying high-potential resources, or the many other librarians outside the U.S. who might also engage in this project. Extensive number-jockeying, accounting for other factors etc. would still not convince me that cataloging the Internet was not doable. The idea may be quixotic, but it is not totally out of the realm of reality. If you wanted to convince me that it was a bad idea for *other* reasons, I'm listening, but viability won't work. Finally, in terms of where the leadership for this would come from, it would come from people who believe it can happen, and not from those who don't; isn't that always the case? Closing an unusually prolix day-- ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From suekamm at class.org Thu Nov 20 19:56:27 1997 From: suekamm at class.org (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Public Workstations Inappropriate Use Message-ID: <9711210100.AA11843@library.berkeley.edu> As an academic library, whether publicly-supported or not, you are well within your rights to limit the use of ANY of your resources by people who are not members of your library's community. Your acceptable use policy could include something like the following: "Students, faculty, and staff of the university have first priority to utilize the public-access Internet workstataions. The public at large is welcome to access the Internet at a university workstation; however, if a member of the university community wishes to use it, non-university affiliated people will be asked to discontinue their sessions." ---------- From ammons at creighton.edu Thu Nov 20 20:25:37 1997 From: ammons at creighton.edu (ammons@creighton.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:19 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Problem is, they won't work without a cartridge loaded, and it can't be an empty cartridge, either. On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: > Well what I'd suggest concerning the 680 models is to take out the color > cartridge... > From hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU Fri Nov 21 08:11:53 1997 From: hooleyss at gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU (Steve Hooley) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971121081408.443f0e74@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> That's been our experience, too, but Mr Davidzon told me his DO work without a cartridge, so maybe there's hope. Are we talking about a 680C Deskjet here? The 600C let you switch between a color and a B&W cartridge. I'd love to beat this - our department head grilled some HP reps a few weeks back and they had no ideas either. For use on a staff desktop they're great little color printers, but in public areas they die quickly (it's a long story why we have them instead of the 600Cs we ordered). > >Problem is, they won't work without a cartridge loaded, and it can't be >an empty cartridge, either. > >On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: > >> Well what I'd suggest concerning the 680 models is to take out the color >> cartridge... >> > > > From rjtiess at juno.com Fri Nov 21 08:15:09 1997 From: rjtiess at juno.com (Robert J Tiess) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Yahoo - What librarians CAN do References: <3.0.3.32.19971120195030.00c87554@panix.com> Message-ID: <19971121.081608.7815.1.rjtiess@juno.com> "Karen G. Schneider" writes: >Many good projects start small and work their way up, >demonstrating their worth, competing with other, bigger projects, >and so forth. [...] >The idea of cataloging the Internet is only Herculean if you think of >the entire Internet. It is not Herculean if you think of cataloging those >resources you want access through your OPAC today--and more >tomorrow--and more the following day. It's not as if there aren't ANY websites >cataloged; there just aren't nearly ENOUGH. And that's with very, >very little attention or resources directed toward Internet cataloging. I agree with Karen that the idea of cataloging the Internet need not be cast in a Herculean light--although Atlas might be an equally compelling mythological symbol here. Number one, I'm not a librarian, and, number two, I alone, since this January, have already collected over 1,000 sites for a new guide to major and vital Internet resources. One person can do wonders, and while my work is far from over and it may be weeks before Vivid goes public, I can tell you I, and the librarians I work with, have already used it to help answer a number of patron queries. One of the ideas behind Vivid is to be no more than two to four clicks from the information you need. The structure's admittedly unique, although I am familiar with and have considered applying classical cataloging practices, but it works. When complete, Vivid will have reviews for at least 1 - 3 sites in every section, and it will grow as patrons and colleagues will be able to recommend new sites and report dead links through the same page. I think one thing any electronic resource development project can consider is this: The majority of patrons want the unmoderated potential of the entire Internet without having to sort through it all, the needle and the haystack, but usually the wild goose without the chase. They don't want to wait for data or have to do a lot of scrolling and clicking. They also want options, to be able to go beyond what's there on a web page, to search on their own for sites specific to their interests. Often they'll ask, Where's the best place to look for...? We have bookmarks, and they do help, but they're limited and lack the structure, look, and linkage a guide can provide. What I set out to do is sincerely attempt to collect some of the "best" sites out there for a vareity of subject areas. As new sites appear and supercede older sites, those will be assimilated into the index and older URLs will be weeded, just like our print collection. There's no reason (or hope) every site should be accounted for; there is a great deal of overlap, informational redundancy. Some sites simply do a better job of presenting information than others. Finding them and letting colleagues and patrons know about them in a timely manner is a challenge in itself. Our director is also actively involved in evaluating resources and recommending links. We will have soon a public "recommended links" binder in which patrons and staff members will be able to pass "good" sites on to each other. These sites are not necessarily absorbed into Vivid, but this will be one source. It's one way for the patrons to become part of the process. In the last few months we've put out a recommended books binder, for fiction and nonfiction titles. Staff members and patrons have made use of it. And there's another key point: Build something people will want to use. We want the patrons to be as much a part of this as our staff members; in so doing we're assured to be addressing the needs of our local community, which should never be forgotten in the most global of our Internet resource conversations. I'm also working on a team with librarians to develop an annotated guide to law resources on the Internet, one unique aspect of it being it reports both what's "out there" *and* in our library, providing a select list of our library resources (reference and circulating) for each subject area. We've extended this practice to other parts of our site, and I hope to continue working with librarians to integrate the library's unique resources with our Internet resources. Patrons should know there are print equivalents or superlative materials in the library they can actually refer to or check out. I'm not relying on webpac for this, as this is still somewhat slow (even via T-1) and encompasses all libraries in our ANSER network, where we simply want a concise portrait of items you may find in our stacks and reference areas. This all goes toward example of various things you and your colleagues can do to initiate, forward, and personalize any Internet cataloging effort, starting out small-scale, microcosmic, while not obcuring the Internet's resource macrocosm. What it does take is not so much time but energy, enthusiasm, and weekly dedication, not a solitary, well-funded instance. That's short-term, the primary reason most on-line guides and search engines go stale and evaporate after the first year or few months. It takes a long-term commitment. Having a realistic goal in mind helps. Then you would be surprised what you could accomplish on your own or in a small group working steadily for a few months. With the right mixture of will, desire, open-mindedness and realism, almost anything is possible. Robert J. Tiess Middletown Thrall Library http://www.thrall.org From dmiller at curry.edu Fri Nov 21 08:27:20 1997 From: dmiller at curry.edu (David P. Miller) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: "Cataloging the Internet" Message-ID: <199711211327.IAA11013@hermes.curry.edu> We definitely confuse the relevant issues here when we talk about "cataloging the Internet". First, nobody but nobody is actually talking about providing full AACR/MARC cataloging for every home page, every chat room, every newsgroup. That's simply a nonissue. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, no library in the past 500 years ever tried to collect and catalog everything ever published, and our present situation need not be different in that regard. On the other hand, one could catalog the Internet quite easily. The result would look something like (very rough, now): TITLE: Internet. SUBJECT: Online resources -- Databases. MEANS OF ACCESS: [big long field here providing all the options]. You get the idea. Obviously, nobody's talking about that either. What -is- happening, despite all the statements that nobody's doing this and it can't be done, is that detailed access is being provided to specific resources in an increasing number of cases. Apart from the technical issues of URL maintenance, this effort is moving along quite well, and no big daddy is in charge. There are also a growing number of coherent, thoughtful and well-maintained "webliographies." That's very good too (our library web site points to the Hardin Meta Directory, for example). And the search engines have their place, no doubt -- I'm turning more often to Northern Light nowadays. So, why are we still talking about "cataloging the Internet?" I know, it's shorthand -- but not really useful shorthand anymore. David Miller Levin Library, Curry College dmiller@curry.edu From wfeidt at nal.usda.gov Fri Nov 21 09:02:16 1997 From: wfeidt at nal.usda.gov (Bill Feidt) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: A good "Advanced HTML" guide Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971121090223.570fd97c@nal.usda.gov> Probably depends to some extent on whether you're looking for a reference or something more didactic. For reference, my favorite is: HTML : The Definitive Guide (Nutshell Handbook) by Chuck Musciano, Bill Kennedy 2nd Edition Paperback, 552 pages Published by O'Reilly & Associates Publication date: May 1, 1997 Dimensions (in inches): 9.18 x 7.04 x 1.15 ISBN: 1565922352 Bill Feidt AgNIC wfeidt@nal.usda.gov At 11:56 AM 11/20/97 -0800, Deborah wrote: >I'm looking to buy a good "Advanced HTML" guide, so I'm hoping to get some >suggestions. What are people using? Which is your favorite and why? > >I'm currently using the "HTML Sourcebook" 3rd edition by Ian S. Graham, but >it isn't advanced enough for my needs. I'm particularly interested in >learning more about frames and forms. > >Good web sites covering these topics are also greatly appreciated. Thanks >in advance for your suggestions. > >Deborah From Harry_M_Kriz at vt.edu Fri Nov 21 10:11:56 1997 From: Harry_M_Kriz at vt.edu (Harry M. Kriz) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Yahoo wins PC Mag Editor's Choice Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971121101156.00979370@mail.vt.edu> The discussion of Yahoo as being so awful took me by surprise as I use it as my starting point for any searching. I like the idea that human intelligence has been applied to classifying and categorizing the sites indexed by Yahoo. I don't do enough Web searching to have the kinds of insights people have posted to this list about Yahoo. PC Magazine, Vol. 16, No. 21, pp. 227-255 (December 2, 1997) reviews many Internet search tools. Yahoo was the Editor's Choice for Internet Directory, with HotBot being the Editor's Choice for a Search Index. The review did rate Yahoo as the poorest service for eliminating dead links. Yahoo was rated Excellent for simple queries and for eliminating duplicates. --Harry ----------------------------------------------------------------- Harry_M_Kriz@vt.edu 540-231-7052 FAX: 540-231-3694 http://learning.lib.vt.edu/authors/hmkriz.html University Libraries Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University (Virginia Tech) Blacksburg, VA 24061-0434 USA "What joy to awake every morning in a world so filled with things to learn." - H. M. Kriz (1994) From mbrown at dit.tec.co.us Fri Nov 21 03:20:18 1997 From: mbrown at dit.tec.co.us (Mary Brown) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: CAPITALIZATION in search engines Message-ID: <199711210820.IAA07444@mail.dit.tec.co.us> Heather I would very much appreciate a copy of your letter. Mary Brown mbrown@dit.tec.co.us At 12:26 PM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >I don't know if any of you know about "Free Pint" a biweekly email >newsletter. This week's has a section which addresses Capitalization in >search engines along with other forms of uniformity. I thought it >pertained well to the thread of the search engine discussion of last week. >The url is http://www.freepint.co.uk/ I think you can access a copy of the >newsletter there without subscribing. If anyone wants a copy, I can >forward mine to individuals or to the whole list. >Hope this helps the discussion! >Heather Grady > ><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> >Heather A. Grady >Graduate Student in Library Science, University of Illinois >Graduate Student Assistant--Applied Life Studies Library >Http://www.library.uiuc.edu/alx/ (ALS Page) >HGrady@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu ><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>><<<>>> > > > From jul at oclc.org Fri Nov 21 10:30:03 1997 From: jul at oclc.org (Jul,Erik) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Catalogs or subject guides? Message-ID: Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill") said: > I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We > should be concentrating on developing the subject guides Unlike Bill, I do not think we are in an "either/or" situation, that is, either we catalog Internet resources or we develop subject-oriented guides or bibliographies. I have and I continue to encourage libraries to identify, select, and catalog Internet resources. Much is to be gained by this approach. --Erik Erik Jul jul@oclc.org From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Fri Nov 21 10:43:33 1997 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Thanks Message-ID: I just returned from being out of the office for three weeks, and I want to thank my colleague who kept the lights on at Web4Lib for me while I was away. Dave Rez has willingly filled in for me on numerous occasions, and his work makes it possible for me to leave knowing the list is in good hands. You may not be aware, but keeping Web4Lib going requires a steady stream of subscriber removals (either due to voluminous bounced mail or direct request), additions, aliases, and troubleshooting. Thanks, Dave! Roy Tennant Web4Lib Owner From kharriss at d.umn.edu Fri Nov 21 10:44:50 1997 From: kharriss at d.umn.edu (Kyle Harriss) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971120100702.3f474f70@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu> Message-ID: Because of the per-page printing costs of inkjets, we removed our inkjet printers from public areas and put networked laserprinters into place. (We removed Deskjet 600's, and now have 19 library owned, and about 35 computer center-owned PC's printing to a combination of 3 HPLaserjet5M printers.) I remember per page estimates of the cost of consumibles for printing, something like 2 to 2.5 cents per page for laser, and 4 cents per page for inkjets using black ink. That would probably be based on 5% coverage of the page with ink. Many web pages produce output that requires far more ink than that. So the real costs may be twice as high, or more. This shifts the economics from cheaper to buy inkjets, towards cheaper to print laser printers. -- Kyle Harriss kharriss@d.umn.edu Tech Services voice: 218-726-6546 UMD Library fax: 218-726-8019 Duluth, MN 55812 On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Steve Hooley wrote: > We've had trouble with HP Deskjet 680Cs for this kind of use - the > costly color cartridge primes itself with each reboot, then if no color is > ever printed, begins to gum up. Eventually the priming operation fails and > the printer stalls, demanding a new color cartridge before it prints B&W > again. We've had good luck with 600 and 600C printers - but we've decided to > get B&W-ONLY printers next time for B&W applications. > > >MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU writes: > >>Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library > >>public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are > >>interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web > >>pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something > >similar? > >>We plan to have a printer with each PC, rather than networking several > >>PCs to a shared printer. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. > >>Thanks! > > > >We're using several HP 672Cs at our library, and they're both fast > >(relatively) and cheap ($200). They can print in color, or you can set > >it to gray, to conserve on the costly color cartridge. Best buy in its > >class, right now, although there are better printers by this same > >company. In my office I use the Epson 400 Color, which is nice but > >way too slow for public access. > > > >Robert J. Tiess > >Middletown Thrall Library > >http://www.thrall.org > > > > > > > > *+============================* > | Stephen S. Hooley | Statesboro Ga > | Romulan Technician | Home of the > | Henderson Library | Statesboro > |"It's Only a Job Description"| Blues > | Georgia Southern University |www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/hooleyss > +=============================+ > Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? > > From kiratoy at panix.com Fri Nov 21 10:51:36 1997 From: kiratoy at panix.com (Shawn J.P. West (BlackSheep)) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: A good "Advanced HTML" guide In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971121090223.570fd97c@nal.usda.gov> Message-ID: Never more than arms distance away all of the ORA book are Straight no chaser they give you what you need with out the fluff. One other book that i found nice but a bit conversational was: Laura Lemay's WEB Publishing With HTML 3.2 ISDN 1-57521-096-7 I would get this first and the above second if i had a choice i have both though ;-) HTML : The Definitive Guide (Nutshell Handbook) by Chuck Musciano, Bill Kennedy 2nd Edition Paperback, 552 pages Published by O'Reilly & Associates Publication date: May 1, 1997 Dimensions (in inches): 9.18 x 7.04 x 1.15 ISBN: 1565922352 > > At 11:56 AM 11/20/97 -0800, Deborah wrote: > >I'm looking to buy a good "Advanced HTML" guide, so I'm hoping to get some > >suggestions. What are people using? Which is your favorite and why? > > > >I'm currently using the "HTML Sourcebook" 3rd edition by Ian S. Graham, but > >it isn't advanced enough for my needs. I'm particularly interested in > >learning more about frames and forms. > > > >Good web sites covering these topics are also greatly appreciated. Thanks > >in advance for your suggestions. > > > >Deborah > > ------------------------------------------------------- The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor. -- Vince Lombardi ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.kiratoy.com kiratoy@2600.com From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Fri Nov 21 11:36:55 1997 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Catalogs or subject guides? Message-ID: Erik Jul wrote: > ... I do not think we are in an "either/or" situation, >that is, either we catalog Internet resources or we develop >subject-oriented guides or bibliographies. > I agree. A very satisfying aspect of working on the Hardin Meta Directory is finding that many of the best lists that we include are done by librarians. I think this is because the importance of list MAINTENANCE just comes a lot easier for librarians than others. A distinction we like to make in describing the Hardin MD is this - -Primary sites - content sites, most links internal -Secondary sites - List of pointers to primary sites -Tertiary sites - Meta sites (like the Hardin MD) with pointers to secondary sites In terms of this definition, I think librarians will naturally spend time on both secondary and tertiary development. The two really complement each other - Tertiary list making can be seen as simply "taking an inventory" of existing secondary lists. Finding out what areas are lacking in good secondary lists makes it easier for us to spend our time effeciently in developing new secondary lists. --Eric From wroldfie at library.uwaterloo.ca Fri Nov 21 12:00:00 1997 From: wroldfie at library.uwaterloo.ca (William Oldfield) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Catalogs or subject guides? Message-ID: <199711211700.MAA30384@library.uwaterloo.ca> In the very early days librarians made lists of the books in their collections. As the collection grew it became difficult to maintain these lists and create all the special subject lists required. The results was the invention of the card catalogue, records with a variety of access points arranged in various sequences. Librarians selected books of value, created records and added them to their catalogue. Already the number and variety of lists to categorise Internet resources is getting out of hand. Most Web based Electronic Libraries are now lists of resources under various categories. Maintenance of these lists when a URL, which appears on a dozen lists, changes is already a nightmare. It is almost time to do what we did in the past. Create records for these valuable resources with a variety of access points. Now that most catalogues are automated and records can have a variety of access points we can let our users determine their own categories. Call it "cataloguing the Internet" or "cataloguing valuable electronic resources" I still think it is the eventual answer. We also don't need expensive catalogue records. Meta data stored in the header (CIP) of electronic resources using an abbreviated record format which can be extracted and added to our catalogues should make this an economical process. William Oldfield Networked Information Research Associate University of Waterloo Library http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/~wroldfie/home.html (519) 888-4567 Ext 2461 >Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill") said: > >> I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We >> should be concentrating on developing the subject guides > > Unlike Bill, I do not think we are in an "either/or" situation, >that is, either we catalog Internet resources or we develop >subject-oriented guides or bibliographies. > > I have and I continue to encourage libraries to identify, >select, and catalog Internet resources. Much is to be gained by this >approach. > > --Erik > > Erik Jul > jul@oclc.org > > > > From murgasa at sls.lib.il.us Fri Nov 21 11:18:04 1997 From: murgasa at sls.lib.il.us (Andrew Murgas) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Netware 4 web server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just out of curiosity, some of my collegues and I were wondering if anyone out there has tried out the Novell web product, either as a web server or FTP server, and if there were any problems with configuration or security? Andrew R. Murgas Suburban Library System Information Technology Specialist murgasa@sls.lib.il.us From anna at palos-verdes.lib.ca.us Fri Nov 21 13:04:23 1997 From: anna at palos-verdes.lib.ca.us (Anna Trupiano) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? Message-ID: <199711211804.KAA15252@palos-verdes.lib.ca.us> Another alternative is to use the old HP500's printer driver with the newer Ink Jets... we've been able to do this and put empty color cartridges in the printer without any problems. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visit our Website.... http://muse.palos-verdes.lib.ca.us - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Anna Trupiano Palos Verdes Library District Systems Administrator 701 Silver Spur Road Phone: (310) 377-9584 X258 Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA 90274 FAX: (310) 541-6807 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From librlc at emory.edu Fri Nov 21 13:30:53 1997 From: librlc at emory.edu (Bob Craigmile) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: printing costs: laser vs. inkjet Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971121183053.014b1bf4@pop3.service.emory.edu> Mention has been made of the cost differential between laser and inkjet. Can anyone point to any studies or other data on the matter? I've poked around the net without much luck. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian Pitts Theology Library, Emory University librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) From MRSCLIST at mrsc.org Fri Nov 21 10:41:34 1997 From: MRSCLIST at mrsc.org (MRSCLIST) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Cataloging the net In-Reply-To: <8D8F7534014D450F@mail.mrsc.org> Message-ID: Wilfred Drew wrote: > I am opposed to librarians trying to catalog the Internet. We should > be concentrating on developing the subject guides as suggested by Eric > Rumsey. Several years ago after I wrote Not Just Cows I issued a > challenge on PACS-L suggesting that each librarian and/or library pick a > subject and create a highly selective guide to online resources. My > challenge was pretty much ignored. Not Just Cows is such a guide. It > is highly selective and does tend to reflect my likes and dislikes. Why > can't each one of us select a narrow or broad subject and create a > selective yet comprehensive guide to internet/online resources? We used > top write such things about the print literature. They are called bibliographies. Now we call them links! Speaking of cataloging the internet, the Washington State Library is involved in a project called GILS, or Government Information Locator Service, modeled after the Federal GILS project, where government documents and records that are made available electronically on the web are indexed extensively using meta-tags. These metadata fields are located in the html codes prior to content, and include information such as document title, author, description, keywords, date, agency info, etc, etc. Apparently the info contained in this metadata makes it a powerful tool for search engines. And because it is very similair to library cataloging, I wouldn't be surprised if librarians in future adopt most of the standards. If any of you are sincerely interested, you could visit the Washington State Gils Project at: http://www.wa.gov/wsl/gils.htm . Andrew Derby Municipal Research and Services Center of Washington Library 1200 Fifth Ave., Suite 1300 Seattle, WA 98101 206-625-1300 http://www.mrsc.org From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Nov 21 14:03:06 1997 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: She catalogs me, she catalogs me not... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971121140306.00c44058@panix.com> My own book arrived today, via UPS, and I finally broke down and opened it up. On page xviii (is that pronounced "eighteen" or "ex vee eye eye eye?"), I say: "There is one collection-oriented tool, a commercial product called The Library Channel, which I discuss in the product reviews. The fact that this software includes many blocking mechanisms speaks eloquently to the reality of cataloging the entire Internet." At the time I was referring to largely *manual* indexing on a very small scale with very limited resources, whereas yesterday I was thinking about highly automated activities, using very smart software, on a much more ambitious scale. It did cross my mind to wonder if I was capable of holding two mutually exclusive beliefs simultaneously... my thoughts on that: yes and no! ______________________________________________ Karen G. Schneider | kgs@bluehighways.com Director, US EPA Region 2 Library | Contractor, GCI Councilor-at-Large, American Library Association The Internet Filter Assessment Project: http://www.bluehighways.com/tifap/ Author, Forthcoming: A Practical Guide to Internet Filters (Neal Schuman, 1997 ISBN 1-55570-322-4) Information is hard work ------------------------------------------- From kharriss at d.umn.edu Fri Nov 21 14:30:38 1997 From: kharriss at d.umn.edu (Kyle Harriss) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: printing costs: laser vs. inkjet In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19971121183053.014b1bf4@pop3.service.emory.edu> Message-ID: Last I recall, PC Magazine published a "printer issue" every fall. They probably don't do so every year, but within the last 3 years one of those issues had cost comparisons. -- Kyle Harriss kharriss@d.umn.edu Tech Services voice: 218-726-6546 UMD Library fax: 218-726-8019 Duluth, MN 55812 On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Bob Craigmile wrote: > Mention has been made of the cost differential between laser and inkjet. > Can anyone point to any studies or other data on the matter? I've poked > around the net without much luck. > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ > Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian > Pitts Theology Library, Emory University > librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html > 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) > > From L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 21 11:09:32 1997 From: L.Will at willpower.demon.co.uk (Leonard Will) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Cataloguing the Internet In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971120195030.00c87554@panix.com> Message-ID: <446s1CA8Ibd0Ew1e@willpower.demon.co.uk> In article <3.0.3.32.19971120195030.00c87554@panix.com>, "Karen G. Schneider" writes > >The idea of cataloging the Internet is only Herculean if you think of the >entire Internet. It is not Herculean if you think of cataloging those >resources you want access through your OPAC today--and more tomorrow--and >more the following day. It's not as if there aren't ANY websites >cataloged; there just aren't nearly ENOUGH. And that's with very, very >little attention or resources directed toward Internet cataloging. > Nobody in this thread has yet mentioned the WWW Virtual Library, which is a project to share out the job of cataloguing (or at least listing) Internet resources in just this way. It uses the LC Classification to subdivide subjects, and anyone can volunteer to maintain an area they are interested in. Have a look at http://vlib.stanford.edu/Overview.html and see whether this is something that more librarians could contribute to - both in taking on particular areas, alerting the section maintainers of resources they have missed, or advising on the subject arrangement. In the UK we used to have national and regional subject specialisation schemes, where the whole of the Dewey classification was shared out among a group of libraries, each undertaking to buy as comprehensively as they could within their allocated section to build a collection that would be available for loan to all the other participants. The WWW Virtual Library project seems to be capable of being the international electronic equivalent. Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- From Harry_M_Kriz at vt.edu Fri Nov 21 15:05:47 1997 From: Harry_M_Kriz at vt.edu (Harry M. Kriz) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: printing costs: laser vs. ink jet In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19971121183053.014b1bf4@pop3.service.emory.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971121150547.0098a520@mail.vt.edu> At 10:46 AM 11/21/97 -0800, Bob wrote: >Mention has been made of the cost differential between laser and inkjet. >Can anyone point to any studies or other data on the matter? I've poked >around the net without much luck. See PC Magazine, vol. 16, no. 19, p 107, November 4, 1997. Laser printer cost: 2 to 3 cents per page for typical business letter with about 5% toner coverage (cost for all consumables including toner, developer, and drum). Ink jet printer cost: about 4 cents per page for same business letter. Color printing for 15 percent page coverage (typical business report with color pie or bar chart): 6 cents to 23 cents per page Full page photo printing: $1 to $2 per page Summary: Ink jet printing costs more per page. --Harry ----------------------------------------------------------------- Harry_M_Kriz@vt.edu 540-231-7052 FAX: 540-231-3694 http://learning.lib.vt.edu/authors/hmkriz.html University Libraries Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University (Virginia Tech) Blacksburg, VA 24061-0434 USA "What joy to awake every morning in a world so filled with things to learn." - H. M. Kriz (1994) From schmitz at AXP.WINNEFOX.ORG Fri Nov 21 15:41:05 1997 From: schmitz at AXP.WINNEFOX.ORG (Greg Dean Schmitz) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: What Site? (fwd) Message-ID: I found the attached story about non "techie" people's understanding of our WWW terminology interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg D. Schmitz | Email: schmitz@winnefox.org Oshkosh Public Library | Phone: (920)236-5219 x4814 Oshkosh, WI 54901-4985 | Fax: (920)236-5227 _________________________________________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:49:08 -0800 From: Anthony Blagg To: lis-pub-libs@mailbase.ac.uk Subject: What Site? Reading lis-pub-libs regularly it is easy to become seduced into thinking that the world understands totally the concept of the wired world. Many of our "clients" do not as the following extract from the London Evening Standard, 19 Nov 97, p4, portrays. "Couple Tangled up With Website. An elderly couple got themselves into a tangle after they travelled nearly 100 miles - to visit their local Website. The pensioners had seen an advertisement inviting them to visit the BBC Website and imagined it to be a building. The pair drove from their home in Portsmouth to BBC Thames Valley Radio in Caversham, Berks, and asked a reporter if the Website was open for them to visit." Anthony Blagg Internet Officer Birmingham Libraries From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Fri Nov 21 15:48:44 1997 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Public libraries providing Internet access Message-ID: In the November 1997 BYTE, on page 19, there is a small box labeled "Geek Mystique" in which the results of a CommerceNet/Nielsen Media Research survey has determined that far and away, public libraries lead the way in "alternative points of access" to the Internet. At 46% of respondents, libraries best the nearest competition (churches and community centers) by a whopping 28% (only 18%, and how many churches do you know with drop-in Internet workstations?). Malls and cyber cafes account for 14%. We've all known this, but it's good to see some numbers from an industry source and see them published in a magazine like BYTE. Roy Tennant From answers at interaccess.com Fri Nov 21 15:24:26 1997 From: answers at interaccess.com (Paul Deane) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? Message-ID: <01bcf6bb$767f4220$d74246cf@paul> My experience is thatdeskjets are great. Anything dot matrix or with continuous feed paper is a real aggrevation for patrons and librarians. Paul Deane Answers, Inc. answers@interaccess.com 847-590-1207 -----Original Message----- From: MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 8:49 PM Subject: Printer recommendations? >Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library >public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are >interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web >pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something similar? From muraskit at UWSTOUT.EDU Fri Nov 21 15:47:14 1997 From: muraskit at UWSTOUT.EDU (Terri Muraski) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971121144714.006cf2dc@uwstout.edu> We are looking to set up a laser printer network similar to the one described below using a Windows NT server. We are looking for print queue software which will hold and queue print "orders" from the PC's until the student requests printing. We plan to charge for the printing using a card reader system already on campus. Does anyone have any experience/recommendations regarding software for NT? At 08:24 AM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Because of the per-page printing costs of inkjets, we removed our inkjet >printers from public areas and put networked laserprinters into place. >(We removed Deskjet 600's, and now have 19 library owned, and about 35 >computer center-owned PC's printing to a combination of 3 HPLaserjet5M >printers.) > >I remember per page estimates of the cost of consumibles for printing, >something like 2 to 2.5 cents per page for laser, and 4 cents per page >for inkjets using black ink. That would probably be based on 5% coverage >of the page with ink. Many web pages produce output that requires far >more ink than that. So the real costs may be twice as high, or more. > >This shifts the economics from cheaper to buy inkjets, towards cheaper to >print laser printers. > >-- > >Kyle Harriss kharriss@d.umn.edu >Tech Services voice: 218-726-6546 >UMD Library fax: 218-726-8019 >Duluth, MN 55812 > Terri Muraski Serials/Document Delivery Librarian University of Wisconsin-Stout Menomonie, Wisconsin 54751 715-232-1160 muraskit@uwstout.edu From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Fri Nov 21 16:26:28 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <01bcf6bb$767f4220$d74246cf@paul> Message-ID: Yeah, I will have to second that one. I've had waay too much trouble with anything where you feed the continuous paper... Besides, there are only a few dot matrix's out there on the market now... They're basically history. On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Paul Deane wrote: > My experience is thatdeskjets are great. Anything dot matrix or with > continuous feed paper is a real aggrevation for patrons and librarians. > > Paul Deane > Answers, Inc. > answers@interaccess.com > 847-590-1207 > -----Original Message----- > From: MVANHOUTEN@PCI.ALBION.EDU > To: Multiple recipients of list > Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 8:49 PM > Subject: Printer recommendations? > > > >Does anyone have recommendations for printers to attach to library > >public (reference) PCs? We are currently using Epson LX-300s, but are > >interested in moving to something faster, and better for printing web > >pages, full-text articles, etc. Anyone using Deskjets or something similar? > > > From kharriss at d.umn.edu Fri Nov 21 18:18:07 1997 From: kharriss at d.umn.edu (Kyle Harriss) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971121144714.006cf2dc@uwstout.edu> Message-ID: Nov 21, 1997 I didn't go as far as this in my first comment about choosing laser printers over inkjets. However, what Terri is asking about is precisely what we have done this Fall. More info after this excerpt.. On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Terri Muraski wrote: > We are looking to set up a laser printer network similar to the one > described below using a Windows NT server. We are looking for print > queue software which will hold and queue print "orders" from the PC's > until the student requests printing. > We plan to charge for the printing using a card reader system already > on campus. > > Does anyone have any experience/recommendations regarding software for NT? > Our campus has a WindowsNT server running a custom print server package. My explanation is long. Sorry.. Basics - How it Works for Us ============================ Client "popup" software on all of our public PC's in the Library and in the campus "Web Labs" directs printing to managed queues on this server. After printing, a user walks over to a "Print Station" in the Library or in the Web Lab where they are working. The Print Station is a PC running another piece of software to display the appropriate print queue from the server. The user inserts their id card (with a cash-value magnetic stripe on it). The Print Station displays the waiting print jobs, so the user can select the ones to print. Users can password protect their own jobs, so that others are unable to print or delete them. (Unprinted jobs are deleted from the queue after a fixed number of hours.) A per-page fee is deducted from the cash value on the user's ID card and the pages print on a nearby networked laser printer. Specifics ========== Software Package: UnipriNT Produced By: Pharos Co. (New Zealand) www.pharos.co.nz US Distributor: Ikon Office Solutions 6636 Cedar Ave S Richfield, MN 55423 Contact: Shelley Hamilton shamilton@cdp-ikon.com How Long it Took ================ >From installation in late August, it took until November for us to feel like things are working reliably. We had some trouble with our NT server, various other glitches. I don't work with the server and am somewhat ignorant about that side of things. This was the first NT server our campus staff had set up, and I believe I heard there were some problems with the server hardware to complicate the matter. My Biggest Library-Related Headache ==================================== In the Library, we used to lock down our software configuration with a Win95 "security" package. It worked well, none of the student "hackers" had found a way around it. But I was unable to make UnipriNT work with it. I do NOT think it was UnipriNT's problem. The security package we were using seemed to cause problems with Windows 95's built-in print spooling features - in a manner that prevented UnipriNT from working. Now, instead of locking down the public PCs in the Library, we are taking a different tack: We will let users make changes, as long as we can easily and quickly restore a PC to it's normal configuration. How We Maintain the Desired PC Configuration ============================================ We are setting this up this week. (We know it works, because the campus Web Labs are already set up this way, and use UnipriNT.) We are setting up the PC's to rebuild when they boot. Also to rebuild when a "rebuild" command is selected from the Win95 "start menu". We also can boot from a floppy and rebuild a hard disk. To do this, PC-Rdist. A master copy of the hard drive is stored on a network drive. PC-Rdist can detect what has or has not changed on a PC by comparing it to the master copy. Desireable features include: Rebuilding only needed pieces (its NOT "all or nothing") Ability to use different sources to rebuild specific Win95 components, such as the registry files, which will not be the same on each machine. The choice of what source to use for rebuilding can be automatically based on a PC's network card "mac address". Ability to temporarily move all files that users have added to a specified folder for later deletion.. Or, if you choose, to delete those files immediately. An interesting essay related to this: http://act.kent.edu/stapp/win95rem.htm A link to the company that produces PC-Rdist: http://www.pyzzo.com -- Kyle Harriss kharriss@d.umn.edu UMD Library (218) 726-6546 10 University Drive Duluth, MN 55812 USA From perez at opac.osl.state.or.us Fri Nov 21 19:19:24 1997 From: perez at opac.osl.state.or.us (Ernest Perez) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: printing costs: laser vs. ink jet References: <3.0.3.32.19971121150547.0098a520@mail.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3476250C.FCADF8E9@opac.osl.state.or.us> Correct, ink jet printing does cost a bit more per page in incremental cost. But, if you're going to make a strictly economic decision, don't forget to consider all the factors, just like in lease/purchase analysis. E.g., at 1.5 or 2 cents per page more, consider what the printer price differential is going to do to your total cost/page. If you buy an ink jet at $175, vs. a laser printer at $500 (for a difference of $325), that means that you'll have to print more than 16,250 pages, before you start saving the 2 cents per page. ***Also, the Total El Cheapo alternative is to refill your own inkjet cartridges. It's a no-brainer operation; at worst you get a little ink on your fingers. I've done this for years on my personal printer (just like I used to use WD-40 to quadruple the ribbon life on my old Epson MX-80). You can buy refill kits for a decent price at most office supply stores. Or you can do like I do, and use a hypodermic syringe and a bottle of good quality water-based ink. This way, refills cost like 50 cents, instead of $25 or $30. I usually get about 3-4 refills before the cartridge starts acting funky. LOTS of information out there on both kits and do-it-yourself. Take a look, search Excite using... +"ink jet" refill* syringe needle and you'll get loads of info about that possibility. I don't necessarily counsel doing refills in an agency production setting. BUT do remember to account for that capital cost difference if you are comparing costs/page. Cheers, -ernest Ernest Perez//Oregon State Library//perez@opac.osl.state.or.us//503-378-4243 --------------------------------------------------------- Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better. From Spober at manhattan.edu Fri Nov 21 20:58:24 1997 From: Spober at manhattan.edu (Stacy Pober) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:22 2005 Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? Message-ID: <29385DE6736@mercury.rlc.manhattan.edu> When we started with public access computers in the library, the job of clearing added software and recovering from students "fooling around" in the system was still a burden, but was manageable because we just didn't have that many pc's. Now that we are expanding rapidly, it's clear we should add some security software to protect our machines from students changing program settings, etc. I notice that some posters to this list are running both IKiosk AND Fortres. They seem to be the most popular security programs. Are both really necessary, or are you folks just being extra-careful? If you had to choose just one, which would you get? Our set up will be mostly Pentium computers (we still have a few 486's), some running Windows 3.1, some running Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (the current platform used on our campus network) and some will be running Windows95. They are used primarily for web browsing (mostly using Netscape 3.01) but the students also have access through the campus network to a lot of other applications such as MS Word, WordPerfect, Maple, Quatro, and the like. We are currently purchasing some new Pentiums to replace our dumb terminals, as we move to a web-based library catalog, and I surely want some security software on those as well. Suggestions? Things you would do differently if you knew then what you know now? TIA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Stacy Pober Internet: spober@manvax.cc.manhattan.edu Information Alchemist http://www.manhattan.edu/library/mclmenu.html Manhattan College Libraries Phone: 718-862-7980 Riverdale, NY 10471 Fax: 718-862-7995 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From scottp at moondog.usask.ca Sat Nov 22 08:17:29 1997 From: scottp at moondog.usask.ca (Peter Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: NTRIGUE demonstration Message-ID: I've just been using the NTRIGUE web demo software. "NTRIGUE is the fastest and easiest Windows NT application server solution for delivering Windows-based applications to all desktops across the enterprise and over the Internet. NTRIGUE delivers Windows 95, Windows 3.x and Windows NT-based applications at high performance from an Intel- compatible server to all desktops in the enterprise." For more info: http://www.insignia.com/NTRIGUE/ (I have no connection with the company) From jmbauer at indiana.edu Sat Nov 22 10:14:33 1997 From: jmbauer at indiana.edu (Jennifer Bauer) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: Micro-dry (Re: Printer recommendations?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The discussion about inkjet vs. laser has been valuable, but I was wondering if anyone has tried the new "micro-dry" printers (which supposedly are like inkjets, but with ink that doesn't run so much after contacting water). Is the text any less splotchy than an inkjet's? Jenni B. ---- Jennifer McDaniel Bauer jmbauer@indiana.edu InfoSci student, UITS Knowledge Base editor/programmer, Quiver publisher "All the computers in the world won't move as fast as your brain ... or as slow as your brain."--Steve Ayer From scottp at moondog.usask.ca Sat Nov 22 12:10:31 1997 From: scottp at moondog.usask.ca (Peter Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: Web Site Garage...free web page check Message-ID: "A 5 point checkup to diagnose common mistakes in Web site maintenance and promotion" It also compresses .GIF and .JPG files for faster loading. http://www.WebSiteGarage.com/ From jedwards at uottawa.ca Sat Nov 22 08:31:49 1997 From: jedwards at uottawa.ca (Jean-Marc Edwards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? Message-ID: <9711221832.AA66956@cliff.uottawa.ca> Stacy, Here at the University of Ottawa, Canada, we just launched our Internet Public Access and security was a major concern. This is how we decided to set up Internet Public Access: The 10 dedicated Public Internet Access workstations are running under Windows 95 from a Netware server. Our machines are Pentium 133 with 32 meg of ram and 15 inch monitors. Users do not need to login in with ID and passwords. The machines autologs themselves when they boot. The only applications that are running on those machines are Netscape 3.01, TCP3270 for telnet access and the following plugins and helper apps: Acrobat Reader plug-in, ClearVideo plug-in, Quicktime movie player plug-in, QVTR plug-in, Word viewer plug-in. We have no sound. We do not allow email from the client stations (people still use hotmail). We do not censor and block any access to http. Usenet is accesible only for reading not responding or sending messages. Netscape is configured to go through the common campus proxy server. We use both Fortres 101 and IKIOSK on all machines and both software are installed locally. Netscape is installed on the server. (By the way, Netscape Communications told us on the phone that we should not install Netscape as a network install as the software is not meant to be installed on a server but on each individual machines, I do not know what other Web4lib's members experience is regarding Netscape as a network install) IKIOSK is wonderful at disabling individual options at the application level. It enables you to lock the configuration of a given software or disable the option altogether. For example, with IKIOSK we disabled the the "mail document option", all the items in the "Preferences" menus, "Open file", "Bookmarks", sending and responding to Usenet newsgroups messages and many other options we did not wish the user to use or alter. IKIOSK was also used to disable unwanted options in Adobe Acrobat Reader, TCP3270 (our telnet program), and Media Player of Windows 95. It also was used to disable all "right-mouse clicks", a function we found was very dangerous as it alllowed the user to use the "open" command in all softwares and enable the user to launch unwanted applications. Fortres is used to lock down Windows 95 functionality. It can disable the "My Computer" Icon, the "Start button", and allows you to create a customized shortcut for the shutdown of the stations. Our shortcut contains only one option, namely shutdown (It removes restart in DOS mode, and the others). Fortres also allows you to prevent running programs from a: (All these things are not done by IKIOSK) Fortres protects access to the C: drive only, not the network drives. These have to be protected from the server software (we use Netware). All in all we are quite happy with our solution. The only problem we have so far is a conflict we have not been able to resolve with our anti-virus software. When we try to save a file with any extension other than .txt Netscape sends a message that the file we are trying to save seems to be larger than the amount of disk space available on the diskette (This problem is about to drive me insane!, if someome has encountered that problem and know a solution please let me know!) In Ontario we can not provide open telnet access to the world from stations which do not require authentication. We asked our computer programming servives on campus to write a program which filters telnet access. When a user clicks on a telnet address, the program goes through a list of allowed telnet sites which we had to create, and if the site is there, our telnet program is launched and the user then can login to that computer. If the address is not allowed (meaning not part of our list of selected sites) the user gets a message that the site is not authorized by the library and that they can suggest the inclusion of the site to the Library. The list of allowed telnet sites is maintained on the server. Even when our telnet program is launched for a specific telnet address our users can not go anywhere else because IKIOSK has been used to disable the "Open a new telnet session" . I can just tell you that so far everything has been running smoothly and that I do think both software (IKIOSK and Fortres) need to be used to have a nice setup. We are happy with our decision. You should also look into the NT workstation solution if you are running NT. They offer a solution called "Taskstation mode" which seems to remove access to the taskbar and the start button and to give access to only one application, namley Internet Explorer. Users can not launch any program and access drives. I know nothing about this. Maybe other list members could talk about their experience with Internet public access using NT workstations and servers. That would be interesting. Good Luck Stacy! Jean-Marc Edwards Biblioth?caire des syst?mes (Internet et formation)/ Systems Librarian (Internet and training) Library Network, University of Ottawa http://www.uottawa.ca/library/accueil.html > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:04:48 -0800 > Reply-to: Spober@manhattan.edu > From: "Stacy Pober" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? > When we started with public access computers in the library, the job > of clearing added software and recovering from students "fooling > around" in the system was still a burden, but was manageable because > we just didn't have that many pc's. Now that we are expanding > rapidly, it's clear we should add some security software to protect > our machines from students changing program settings, etc. > > I notice that some posters to this list are running both IKiosk AND > Fortres. They seem to be the most popular security programs. Are > both really necessary, or are you folks just being extra-careful? If > you had to choose just one, which would you get? > > Our set up will be mostly Pentium computers (we still have a > few 486's), some running Windows 3.1, some running Windows for > Workgroups 3.11 (the current platform used on our campus network) and > some will be running Windows95. They are used primarily for web > browsing (mostly using Netscape 3.01) but the students also have > access through the campus network to a lot of other applications such > as MS Word, WordPerfect, Maple, Quatro, and the like. We are > currently purchasing some new Pentiums to replace our dumb terminals, > as we move to a web-based library catalog, and I surely want some > security software on those as well. > > Suggestions? Things you would do differently if you knew then what > you know now? > > TIA. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Stacy Pober Internet: spober@manvax.cc.manhattan.edu > Information Alchemist http://www.manhattan.edu/library/mclmenu.html > Manhattan College Libraries Phone: 718-862-7980 > Riverdale, NY 10471 Fax: 718-862-7995 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jean-Marc Edwards Bibliothecaire de systemes (Internet et Formation)/Systems Librarian (Internet and Training) Reseau de bibliotheques / Library Network Universite d'Ottawa / University of Ottawa email: mailto:jedwards@uottawa.ca tel: 562-5800 ext.3225 Page web du r?seau de biblioth?ques: http://www.uottawa.ca/library From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Sat Nov 22 16:29:17 1997 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: Web Site Garage...free web page check Message-ID: <01bcf78d$b01a6320$91d0430c@thomas.ohiolink.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Scott To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 12:43 PM Subject: Web Site Garage...free web page check >"A 5 point checkup to diagnose common mistakes in Web site maintenance and >promotion" > >It also compresses .GIF and .JPG files for faster loading. > >http://www.WebSiteGarage.com/ > > The 5-point checkup includes analyses of how fast your page loads, whether it has dead links, "popularity" (meaning the number of links to your page detected by Infoseek, a spelling check, and a review of your "HTML Design". I keep track of the first two myself, don't care about the third, have better tools for the fourth, and as for the fifth... A coworker pointed out this URL just a couple days ago. Our home page got a Poor rating for HTML design; marks off for not having height and width attributes in an image (they're use is certainly not recommended in all cases) and multiple instances of: invalid attribute 'alt' in For those scoring at home, an alt attribute is *required* for the AREA element in HTML 3.2 and 4.0. We also show a "fail" mark for one dead link check, when in fact the link just requires authorization. What the heck, it's free. Thomas Dowling Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From mmhung at hknet.com Sat Nov 22 18:24:13 1997 From: mmhung at hknet.com (Michael Ming, Hung) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: School lIbrary homepage Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971123072413.007e0930@hknet.com> 1. What should be put inside a school library homepage that interesting and attract students and others to come again? 2. Are there any sample school library homepages? *************************************************************************** michael hung SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School Librarian HK Professional Teachers' Union, Teacher-librarians' Group, Chairman Jesus Christ, is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever. ~Hebrew 13:8 Homepage = http://www.school.net.hk/~mmhung/ michael email: mmhung@school.net.hk [or] mmhung@hknet.com ida email: idayhchan@valise.com ida & michael Hung *************************************************************************** From jrichards at megsinet.net Sat Nov 22 18:31:58 1997 From: jrichards at megsinet.net (Jim Richards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? References: <29385DE6736@mercury.rlc.manhattan.edu> Message-ID: <34776B6E.3B56@megsinet.net> Stacy Pober wrote: > > When we started with public access computers in the library, the job > of clearing added software and recovering from students "fooling > around" in the system was still a burden, but was manageable because > we just didn't have that many pc's. Now that we are expanding > rapidly, it's clear we should add some security software to protect > our machines from students changing program settings, etc. > > I notice that some posters to this list are running both IKiosk AND > Fortres. They seem to be the most popular security programs. Are > both really necessary, or are you folks just being extra-careful? If > you had to choose just one, which would you get? > > Our set up will be mostly Pentium computers (we still have a > few 486's), some running Windows 3.1, some running Windows for > Workgroups 3.11 (the current platform used on our campus network) and > some will be running Windows95. They are used primarily for web > browsing (mostly using Netscape 3.01) but the students also have > access through the campus network to a lot of other applications such > as MS Word, WordPerfect, Maple, Quatro, and the like. We are > currently purchasing some new Pentiums to replace our dumb terminals, > as we move to a web-based library catalog, and I surely want some > security software on those as well. > > Suggestions? Things you would do differently if you knew then what > you know now? > > TIA. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Stacy Pober Internet: spober@manvax.cc.manhattan.edu > Information Alchemist http://www.manhattan.edu/library/mclmenu.html > Manhattan College Libraries Phone: 718-862-7980 > Riverdale, NY 10471 Fax: 718-862-7995 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ First off, if you're running any product from MS Office 97, IKIOSK doesn't work. They told me the next version, due in January, will be 100% comaptible with Office 97. If you're doing strictly web browsing, use IKIOSK. If you're doing multiple different apps use Fortres. The only reason I'm considering using both (we're currently just using Fortres) is for a couple machines we have running nothing but Office 97 stuff. Fortres just doesn't seem to cut it with Office. im Richards Network Administrator Naperville Public Libraries From jrichards at megsinet.net Sat Nov 22 18:42:51 1997 From: jrichards at megsinet.net (Jim Richards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:24 2005 Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? References: <9711221832.AA66956@cliff.uottawa.ca> Message-ID: <34776DFB.444C@megsinet.net> > All in all we are quite happy with our solution. The only problem we > have so far is a conflict we have not been able to resolve with our > anti-virus software. When we try to save a file with any extension > other than .txt Netscape sends a message that the file we are trying > to save seems to be larger than the amount of disk space available on > the diskette (This problem is about to drive me insane!, if someome has > encountered that problem and know a solution please let me know!) I don't have a solution but I don't think it's the Anti-Virus software. I've had that same thing pop up in a couple different apps that we're running. For some reason instead of Fortres just telling you access is denied, it makes the app think there's not enough disk space. I would be very intrested in hearing a solution for this one too... Jim Richards Network Administrator Naperville Public Libraries From jedwards at uottawa.ca Sun Nov 23 06:52:15 1997 From: jedwards at uottawa.ca (Jean-Marc Edwards) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:26 2005 Subject: IKIOSK? Fortres? Both? In-Reply-To: <34776DFB.444C@megsinet.net> Message-ID: <9711231639.AA93746@cliff.uottawa.ca> I do not want to burden the list with my specific technical problem, but I wish to answer because it deals with Fortres and Fortres does not seem to be the source of the problem. We did some testing this week on a machine without Fortres installed or IKIOSK and the problem still remains. We think that it might be the newer version (2nd release?) of Windows 95 that is incompatible with our ant-virus software. So Fortres does not seem to be causing that. Jean-Marc Edwards (Systems Librarian, Internet & training) University of Ottawa Library Network > > All in all we are quite happy with our solution. The only problem we > > have so far is a conflict we have not been able to resolve with our > > anti-virus software. When we try to save a file with any extension > > other than .txt Netscape sends a message that the file we are trying > > to save seems to be larger than the amount of disk space available on > > the diskette (This problem is about to drive me insane!, if someome has > > encountered that problem and know a solution please let me know!) > > I don't have a solution but I don't think it's the Anti-Virus software. > I've had that same thing pop up in a couple different apps that we're > running. For some reason instead of Fortres just telling you access is > denied, it makes the app think there's not enough disk space. I would > be very intrested in hearing a solution for this one too... > > Jim Richards Network Administrator > Naperville Public Libraries > From sthomas at library.adelaide.edu.au Sun Nov 23 18:58:56 1997 From: sthomas at library.adelaide.edu.au (Steve Thomas) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:26 2005 Subject: Inference Find In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971121101156.00979370@mail.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971124095856.0092f310@library.adelaide.edu.au> Apropos of the discussion about Yahoo etc.: One search engine which I use a lot, and am surprised not to see mentioned very often, is Inference Find, at http://www.inference.com/ifind/ This is "An Internet search tool that calls out in parallel all the best search engines, merges the results, removes redundancies, clusters the hits into neat understandable groupings, and returns it all to you faster than you can say "nothing but net." I've never been disappointed with its results, and I recommend it to all. (And no, I don't have shares in their company!) ___________________________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas, Senior Systems Analyst Mail : Barr Smith Library, The University of Adelaide, South Australia 5005 Phone: (08) 8303 5190 Fax: (08) 8303 4369 Email: sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au URL : http://library.adelaide.edu.au/ual/staff/sthomas.html ** Unless otherwise stated, the content of this message reflects only my ** ** own opinion, and not the policy of the University of Adelaide Library.** "I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's" -- William Blake From mike at tcnet.org Sun Nov 23 22:26:09 1997 From: mike at tcnet.org (Mike McGuire) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:26 2005 Subject: Inference Find In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971124095856.0092f310@library.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Steve Thomas wrote: > Apropos of the discussion about Yahoo etc.: > > One search engine which I use a lot, and am surprised not to see mentioned > very often, is Inference Find, at > > http://www.inference.com/ifind/ I would have to agree with Steve's recommendation. Inference is the search engine I use on a regular basis. Second choice is Lycos, and third is Infoseek. fwiw. Mike McGuire From tk at lms.kent.edu Mon Nov 24 08:00:49 1997 From: tk at lms.kent.edu (Tom Klingler) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971121144714.006cf2dc@uwstout.edu> Message-ID: At 1:37 PM -0800 11/21/97, Terri Muraski wrote: >We are looking to set up a laser printer network similar to the one >described below using a >Windows NT server. We are looking for print queue software which will hold >and queue print "orders" from the PC's until the student requests printing. > We plan to charge for the printing >using a card reader system already on campus. > >Does anyone have any experience/recommendations regarding software for NT? > =============== We haven't bought anything yet, and I cannot endorse or critique any of them, but here is a list of possible vendors. At least one offers a solution for NT. GoPrint Technologies (formerly Card Access Technologies, Inc. and Network Printer Solutions) 8100 Lomo Alto Suite # 201 Dallas, TX 75225 214-691-8100 214-691-8106 fax 800-657-6166 sales sales@goprint.com http://www.goprint.com Stephen Weldon, President Self-service touchscreen network printer manager. Card or coin. ------------------- Interface Electronics 4579 Abbotts Bridge Road, Suite 8 Duluth, GA 30155 770-623-1066 770-623-8001 fax http://www.interface.com --offers ITC Systems Printing Solutions as "The Interface Electronics Print Revenue Management Solution." Novell or NT print queue management. Card Self-service -------------------- ICS -- Integrated Campus Solutions, part of Ikon Office Solutions, Bruce Bailey 517-463-3525 markets UnipriNT, a print accounting system from Pharos Systems http://www.pharos.co.nz/products/uniprint/ Tom Klingler Head of Systems Libraries and Media Services Kent State University Kent, OH, U.S.A. 44242-0001 tk@kent.edu 330-672-2962 (x. 18) voice 330-672-4811 fax From cpetrson at tsl.state.tx.us Mon Nov 24 11:09:25 1997 From: cpetrson at tsl.state.tx.us (Chris Peterson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: Position: Texas State Library Message-ID: SEARCH EXTENDED Director, Library Resource Sharing Division The Texas State Library and Archives Commission seeks an experienced and dynamic professional to manage its statewide library resource sharing programs serving both academic and public libraries. These programs include traditional methodologies like interlibrary loan and reciprocal borrowing privileges, as well as the delivery of electronic information, library and archival materials, and government agency publications in both print and electronic form. The programs include TexShare (http://tcsul.texshare.utexas.edu), the Texas State Electronic Library (http://link.tsl.state.tx.us), the TexNet Interlibrary Loan Network, and the Government Information Clearing House. Required qualifications: Master's degree in Library or Information Science from an ALA-accredited program; six years successful professional experience in library or information services; three years of successful management experience, including budgeting. (See full position description for additional required and preferred characteristics.) The position reports to the Assistant State Librarian and supervises staff of 10 - 11 FTE. Salary dependent on qualifications and experience, $41,016 minimum. Position will remain open until filled. To ensure full consideration, completed applications should be received by February 1, 1998. Interested individuals should contact the Commission's Human Resources Office, (512) 463-5474, or consult our website (http://www.tsl.state.tx.us) for a complete position description and application forms. The Texas State Library and Archives Commission is a diverse agency, with a staff of 206 FTE and an annual budget of $20 million, having broad responsibilities for encouraging and coordinating the development of library services, and for managing state and local government records. M/F EOE D. Christine Peterson Automation Consultant Texas State Library 512/463-6627 chris.peterson@tsl.state.tx.us From rcl at onramp.net Mon Nov 24 15:58:33 1997 From: rcl at onramp.net (Roy Lewis) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971124145833.00742b24@onramp.net> I am sure that I have seen this posted before but can not find it! What is the process of turning off Email in IE 3.0 or in IE4 Some of our libraries WWW stations have had Hate Mail sent from them. Someone suggested the new Netscape 4 without email does anyone have any suggestions. Thanks Roy Lewis ********* Automation Consultant, Northeast Texas Library System 972-205-2571 FAX=972-205-2767 rcl@onramp.net http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/rcl.htm ********* From cdelvecc at mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Mon Nov 24 16:03:15 1997 From: cdelvecc at mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us (Camille Del Vecchio) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: printing costs: laser vs. inkjet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Our experience has been that you'll go broke with inkjets. Laser cartriges are more expensive but they last MUCH longer than the 3:1 cost ratio. Consider also that you can get Laser printers that can hold a lot more paper. Constantly refilling paper is a big drain on staff time and most inconvenient for the patrons. "My method is to take the utmost trouble to find the right thing to say, and then to say it with the utmost levity." G.B. Shaw Camille DelVecchio Penfield Public Library 1985 Baird Road Penfield, NY 14526 716 383-0500 On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Kyle Harriss wrote: > Last I recall, PC Magazine published a "printer issue" every fall. > They probably don't do so every year, but within the last 3 years one of > those issues had cost comparisons. > > -- > > Kyle Harriss kharriss@d.umn.edu > Tech Services voice: 218-726-6546 > UMD Library fax: 218-726-8019 > Duluth, MN 55812 > > On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Bob Craigmile wrote: > > > Mention has been made of the cost differential between laser and inkjet. > > Can anyone point to any studies or other data on the matter? I've poked > > around the net without much luck. > > > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ > > Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian > > Pitts Theology Library, Emory University > > librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html > > 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) > > > > > > From jacques at olsn.on.ca Mon Nov 24 15:42:24 1997 From: jacques at olsn.on.ca (Jacques Presseault) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: School lIbrary homepage References: <3.0.1.32.19971123072413.007e0930@hknet.com> Message-ID: <3479E6AE.7C36A271@olsn.on.ca> Check Teen Services Pages at: http://www-lib.co.santa-clara.ca.us/ya/yapages.html Michael Ming, Hung wrote: > 1. What should be put inside a school library homepage that > interesting and > attract students and others to come again? > > 2. Are there any sample school library homepages? > ************************************************* > ************************* > michael hung > SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School Librarian > HK Professional Teachers' Union, Teacher-librarians' Group, Chairman > > Jesus Christ, is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever. ~Hebrew > 13:8 > Homepage = http://www.school.net.hk/~mmhung/ > michael email: mmhung@school.net.hk [or] mmhung@hknet.com > ida email: idayhchan@valise.com ida & michael > Hung > **** > ********************************************************************** -- Jacques Presseault jacques@olsn.on.ca Ontario Library Service - North (Sudbury) 334 Regent, Sudbury, Ont., P3C 4E2 http://www.library.on.ca/index.html Tel.: (705) 675-6433 Fax: (705) 671-2441 From tsutct01 at asnmail.asc.edu Mon Nov 24 17:30:43 1997 From: tsutct01 at asnmail.asc.edu (Theresa C Trawick) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971121144714.006cf2dc@uwstout.edu> Message-ID: What is the ratio of computers to laser printers for public workstations? Theresa C. Trawick "Finish each day and be done with it ... Electronic Services Libn. You have done what you could; Troy State University, Troy, Al. 36082 Some blunders and absurdities no doubt tsutct01@asnmail.asc.edu crept in (334) 670-3265 Forget them as soon as you can fax (334) 670-3955 Tomorrow is a new day; You shall begin it well and serenely." --Ralph Waldo Emerson From F.Lin at uws.edu.au Tue Nov 25 11:12:38 1997 From: F.Lin at uws.edu.au (Frank Lin) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:28 2005 Subject: HELP - How to Restrict launch apps from Web Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971125111238.0079c100@ariel.macarthur.uws.edu.au> Hi all, I have got a hairy problem on my hands that you might be able to help out. We are planning to launch application (databases) via the web. I have not problems with that (thanks to all the discussions on this topic on this list for the pass two years). My problem is how to restrict the access to certain campus. UWS Macarthur is made up of two campus linked via microwave. All databases are served from the one campus to all libraries and academic offices within UWSM. Restrictions on certain database product on certain campus are enforced via an inhouse written menu program (uses data stored in the INI file to determind campus location) - Not the best but it does the job. How can I have similar restrictions when applications are launched from the web? The first idea I had to determind which campus was IP addresses. This will not work if users uses Proxy Server. Second idea: issue username and password - idea shoot down by our librarian - too many username and password to remember. Third idea - anyone....???? Just a quick background: all users who enter the CD-ROM network are treated as guest. Product licencing are enforced by placing number of access onto the CD-ROM itself from the OS. Thanks...... Frank __________________________________________________________________ Frank Lin E-Mail: F.Lin@uws.edu.au Computer Liaison Officer Phone: +61 2 4620 3589 Library and Information Services Fax: +61 2 4628 2460 University of Western Sydney - Macarthur PO Box 555, Campbelltown, NSW 2560, Australia http://library.macarthur.uws.edu.au/ From spearce at ilalpha.infolink.org Tue Nov 25 08:24:42 1997 From: spearce at ilalpha.infolink.org (spearce) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971124145833.00742b24@onramp.net> Message-ID: <9711251721.AA25504@ilalpha.infolink.org> I'm using Netscape Communicator, I think that is the same as Netscape 4, but I'm not sure. I would love to turn the E-Mail function off. Do I need to download a different Netscape or can I disable E-Mail with Communicator and my next question is how? Sue spearce@infolink.org From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Tue Nov 25 12:34:49 1997 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Making of America Message-ID: Posted by request. Roy ------------------------------------------------------------ UM Making of America site -- 685,885 pages now online http://www.umdl.umich.edu/moa/ The University of Michigan Digital Library Initiative is proud to announce the completion of the first phase of its Making of America project, now including approximately 650,000 pages of books and journals from the latter part of the 19th century. This tremendous resource now contains 1,601 books and ten journals with more than 49,069 articles documenting America's social history. Based on feedback solicited in earlier announcements for the resource, as well as local user studies, the current implementation adds functionality in a number of areas. Notable features of the current system include the following: o Users may search the full text of the 685,885 pages, retrieving results almost instantly. o The system now includes browsable bibliographies for the journal articles and the monographs. o The UM MoA resources have been encoded in a simple SGML form (a 40 element DTD conforming to the TEI Guidelines); consequently, we are able to seamlessly integrate both automatically processed (i.e., "raw") texts, and texts whose OCR and encoding is carefully evaluated (i.e., "cooked" texts). Users who encounter a "cooked" text will find attractively rendered HTML with links to page images, while "raw" texts are presented as page images until resources can be found to improve them. o A major project undertaken during the summer of 1997 subdivided the UM MoA periodicals into articles, adding title and author information to the rough OCR at the article level, thus making it easier to navigate the large body of material or to search for specific items. o Although the functionality of the resource is enhanced by the use of browsers that support frames, the current implementation also supports frameless browsers. Especially if you?ve been a user of the UM Making of American system in the past, we would be very interested in your comments. Please take a look at the new system and send comments to moa-info@umich.edu. Future Developments The resource will continue to improve along several different fronts. o Integration with the Making of America materials at Cornell University (http://moa.cit.cornell.edu/) is a high priority. o Migration from "raw" to "cooked" can take place gradually, based on the availability of resources and specific demands. The Humanities Text Initiative, a part of the Digital Library Production Services at the UM, will undertake the process of proofing OCR and refining markup based on user demand. A call for suggestions of priorities will be made in the coming weeks. o The UM Library will be incorporating digital conversion into its Preservation Department's "Brittle Books" program. New materials will be added to the MoA site as they are converted. o Bibliographic information in monographs will be enhanced with improved catalog records by the end of 1997. o We hope to work with other institutions and funding agencies to make more significant additions to the MoA site. Please send expressions of interest to moa-info@umich.edu. The project is made possible in part by a generous grant from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation. ---------------------------------------------- Miscellaneous statistics: Total SGML: 1.826 gigabytes Total words: approximately 300 million -- John Price-Wilkin Head, Digital Library Production Services http://www.umdl.umich.edu/ 302 Hatcher North University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1205 Phone: 313.764.8074 Fax: 313.647.6897 Email: jpwilkin@umich.edu From jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu Tue Nov 25 12:55:06 1997 From: jiliu at script.lib.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <9711251721.AA25504@ilalpha.infolink.org> from "spearce" at Nov 25, 97 09:46:11 am Message-ID: <199711251755.MAA00914@script.lib.indiana.edu> The standalone version of netscape navigator 4 does not support email. But then all the links to mailto:somebody@somewhere are disabled too. Jian Indiana University Libraries > > I'm using Netscape Communicator, I think that is the same as Netscape > 4, but I'm not sure. I would love to turn the E-Mail function off. Do > I need to download a different Netscape or can I disable E-Mail with > Communicator and my next question is how? > > Sue > spearce@infolink.org > From jrosenhamer at okc.cc.ok.us Tue Nov 25 13:16:38 1997 From: jrosenhamer at okc.cc.ok.us (John Rosenhamer) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail -Reply Message-ID: Sue, You can turn the e-mail off, but this involves deleting it and cleaning your register (if you use Win95) and can be messy. The easiest thing to do is download the version (4.02, I think) of Netscape which only gives you the Navigator. Its on their web site and if your entitled to its product, you can download it for free. What I would do is: 1. down load the stripped package -- Just the Navigator, 2. Copy the file with your bookmarks to another directory for save keeping. 3. (If WIN95) go to Control Panel, Add/Remove Software and remove the edition you now use. This will allow the program to remove the registry notations. 4. Install the new version from the Add/Remove Software. 5. Copy the bookmarks back to the Netscape directory. >>> "spearce" 11/25/97 11:43am >>> I'm using Netscape Communicator, I think that is the same as Netscape 4, but I'm not sure. I would love to turn the E-Mail function off. Do I need to download a different Netscape or can I disable E-Mail with Communicator and my next question is how? Sue spearce@infolink.org John H. Rosenhamer Technical Service Librarian Oklahoma City Community College 7777 S. May Ave. Oklahoma City, OK 73013 (405) 682-1611 x7229 jrosenhamer@okc.cc.ok.us Fax: (405) 682-7585 jrosenhamer@dante.okc.cc.ok.us From twulib at flash.net Tue Nov 25 13:08:58 1997 From: twulib at flash.net (West Library, Texas Wesleyan Univ.) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971124145833.00742b24@onramp.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971125120858.006e40c0@pop.flash.net> Roy, I don't know about IE3 or IE4, but I'm about to implement Netscape in our library. There is a standalone version of Netscape (version 4.04 currently), which is the browser only...no e-mail, no news, and no html editor. I'm currently using this at home (since I've been using Eudora mail for too long to switch!), and I have no complaints so far with this version...since the Java bug seems to be fixed (version 4.03 occasionally hung). Good luck! Trina Adamson Reference and Electronic Resources West Library, Texas Wesleyan University twulib@flash.net At 02:10 PM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote: >I am sure that I have seen this posted before but can not find it! >What is the process of turning off Email in IE 3.0 or in IE4 Some of our >libraries WWW stations have had Hate Mail sent from them. >Someone suggested the new Netscape 4 without email does anyone have any >suggestions. From davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us Tue Nov 25 14:42:54 1997 From: davidzon at metronet.lib.mi.us (Vladislav S. Davidzon) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971125120858.006e40c0@pop.flash.net> Message-ID: But the question that comes up in my mind is what about mailto: URL's? Also what about CGI forms and such services as hotmail? Is there any known way to block such sites (other than using filtering software such as CyberPatrol?) Thanks Vladislav .......................................................................... Vladislav S. Davidzon davidzon@tech-center.com Technology Assistant Farmington Community Library Phone: (248) 553-0300 Fax: (248) 553-3228 32737 W. 12 Mile Road Farmington Hills, MI 48334 "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us" - Oliver Wendell Holmes All opinions are my opinions only, and not those of any organizations I am associated with, unless otherwise specified. .......................................................................... On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, West Library, Texas Wesleyan Univ. wrote: > Roy, > > I don't know about IE3 or IE4, but I'm about to implement Netscape in our > library. There is a standalone version of Netscape (version 4.04 > currently), which is the browser only...no e-mail, no news, and no html > editor. I'm currently using this at home (since I've been using Eudora > mail for too long to switch!), and I have no complaints so far with this > version...since the Java bug seems to be fixed (version 4.03 occasionally > hung). > > Good luck! > > Trina Adamson > Reference and Electronic Resources > West Library, Texas Wesleyan University > twulib@flash.net > > > At 02:10 PM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I am sure that I have seen this posted before but can not find it! > >What is the process of turning off Email in IE 3.0 or in IE4 Some of our > >libraries WWW stations have had Hate Mail sent from them. > >Someone suggested the new Netscape 4 without email does anyone have any > >suggestions. > > > From amutch at tln.lib.mi.us Tue Nov 25 14:42:06 1997 From: amutch at tln.lib.mi.us (Andrew J. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Netscape Navigator 4.04 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971125120858.006e40c0@pop.flash.net> Message-ID: I would second the use of stand-alone 4.04. As noted, the Java bug seems to have been corrected. Also, on my machines, in comparison to earlier 4.x versions of Navigator, it loads much more quickly. Of course, results may vary from machine to machine(Should be a standard industry disclaimer!). Andrew Mutch Northville District Library On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, West Library, Texas Wesleyan Univ. wrote: > Roy, > > I don't know about IE3 or IE4, but I'm about to implement Netscape in our > library. There is a standalone version of Netscape (version 4.04 > currently), which is the browser only...no e-mail, no news, and no html > editor. I'm currently using this at home (since I've been using Eudora > mail for too long to switch!), and I have no complaints so far with this > version...since the Java bug seems to be fixed (version 4.03 occasionally > hung). > > Good luck! > > Trina Adamson > Reference and Electronic Resources > West Library, Texas Wesleyan University > twulib@flash.net > > > At 02:10 PM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I am sure that I have seen this posted before but can not find it! > >What is the process of turning off Email in IE 3.0 or in IE4 Some of our > >libraries WWW stations have had Hate Mail sent from them. > >Someone suggested the new Netscape 4 without email does anyone have any > >suggestions. > > From rcl at onramp.net Tue Nov 25 14:59:20 1997 From: rcl at onramp.net (Roy Lewis) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971125120858.006e40c0@pop.flash.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971125135920.006db660@onramp.net> I would like to thank everyone for the help and I believe I have had replies that will solve the problem. For those that ask for copies of the replies to this question and the results here is what I have found out: IE 4 you can use the Administration Kit that can be downloaded to configure IE4 Netscape now has a Version 4 without the Email capability that seems to be the solution. Other programs such as Ikiosk and Fortress Grand and WinU can be used to lock down other areas of both programs. > >At 02:10 PM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I am sure that I have seen this posted before but can not find it! >>What is the process of turning off Email in IE 3.0 or in IE4 Some of our >>libraries WWW stations have had Hate Mail sent from them. >>Someone suggested the new Netscape 4 without email does anyone have any >>suggestions. > > > > ********* Automation Consultant, Northeast Texas Library System 972-205-2571 FAX=972-205-2767 rcl@onramp.net http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/rcl.htm ********* From boughidk at ERE.UMontreal.CA Tue Nov 25 15:17:56 1997 From: boughidk at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Boughida Karim) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:31 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: <9711251721.AA25504@ilalpha.infolink.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, spearce wrote: > I'm using Netscape Communicator, I think that is the same as Netscape > 4, but I'm not sure. I would love to turn the E-Mail function off. Do > I need to download a different Netscape or can I disable E-Mail with > Communicator and my next question is how? If you do not need Communicator just drop it and download Navigator 4.03 stand alone Karim Boughida boughidk@ere.umontreal.ca http://tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA/~boughidk (L'archivaire francophone) From rcl at onramp.net Wed Nov 26 09:03:21 1997 From: rcl at onramp.net (Roy Lewis) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971126080321.00757170@onramp.net> These Browsers that do not have the Email program in them will not recognize the mailto: command. You still would need to use a filter to restrict certin URL's I really see no reason to block Hotmail or Rocket mail or Yahoo mail. It is just the email programs that reside on the local computer that are a problem. I feel that email is as important to the WWW as any other function as long as the data does not remain on the local computer the patron would not spend any more time with it than doing any othe search and surf. Roy Lewis At 12:45 PM 11/25/97 -0800, Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: >But the question that comes up in my mind is what about mailto: URL's? >Also what about CGI forms and such services as hotmail? Is there any >known way to block such sites (other than using filtering software such as >CyberPatrol?) > >Thanks > >Vladislav ********* Automation Consultant, Northeast Texas Library System 972-205-2571 FAX=972-205-2767 rcl@onramp.net http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/rcl.htm ********* From danforth at tiac.net Wed Nov 26 09:44:18 1997 From: danforth at tiac.net (Isabel Danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Turning off E-Mail and newsgroups In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971126080321.00757170@onramp.net> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19971126094418.00860820@sunspot.tiac.net> Currently we have our only PC accessing the net next to the reference desk, and can 'keep an eye' on it. So we have just removed our email address from the preferences menu. We would like to be able to keep Netscape as open as possible when it goes onto our graphical OPAC terminals. Is there a way to block email from the machine, but still to allow reading, but not posting to newsgroups? Any ideas? Isabel At 06:42 AM 11/26/97 -0800, Roy Lewis wrote: >These Browsers that do not have the Email program in them will not >recognize the mailto: command. You still would need to use a filter to >restrict certin URL's I really see no reason to block Hotmail or Rocket >mail or Yahoo mail. It is just the email programs that reside on the local >computer that are a problem. I feel that email is as important to the WWW >as any other function as long as the data does not remain on the local >computer the patron would not spend any more time with it than doing any >othe search and surf. > >Roy Lewis > >At 12:45 PM 11/25/97 -0800, Vladislav S. Davidzon wrote: >>But the question that comes up in my mind is what about mailto: URL's? >>Also what about CGI forms and such services as hotmail? Is there any >>known way to block such sites (other than using filtering software such as >>CyberPatrol?) >> >>Thanks >> >>Vladislav > >********* >Automation Consultant, Northeast Texas Library System >972-205-2571 FAX=972-205-2767 >rcl@onramp.net http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/rcl.htm >********* > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Coordinator of Librarians' Online Support Team http://www.gnacademy.org:8001/~lost/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu Wed Nov 26 10:17:21 1997 From: bcmayes at shiva.hunter.cuny.edu (Byron C. Mayes) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Netscape Navigator 4.04 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Andrew J. Mutch wrote: > I would second the use of stand-alone 4.04. > > As noted, the Java bug seems to have been corrected. Also, on my > machines, in comparison to earlier 4.x versions of Navigator, it loads > much more quickly. Are the settings (home page, colors, fonts, etc.) still available in the stand-alone version of Netscape 4.x? While mail is one thing we need to block here at Hunter, maintaining the settings is another (from my standpoint, that's even more important). We can certainly make our .INI and bookmark files read-only, but then, we do that with version 3 already. It'd be nice if there wasn't even the appearance of an option to change default settings, but that's probably wishful thinking. Is the lack of Messenger and the rest of the "extended" components (Collabra, Composer, Conference, etc) the only benefit of stand-alone Navigator 4? Byron Prof. Byron C. Mayes Systems Librarian/Assistant Professor Hunter College of the City University of New York 695 Park Avenue * New York, New York 10021 bcmayes@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu * 212-772-4168 * Fax: 212-772-5113 From onlineed at dallas.net Tue Nov 25 18:26:53 1997 From: onlineed at dallas.net (Gina Yarbrough) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Online Educator's Weekly Super Sites for November 23,1997 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971125232653.00740b44@dallas.net> Hello From Online Educator, Here are the five Education Super Sites for the week of November 23, 1997 from The Online Educator, creators of "Point, Click and Teach.". BUT FIRST Check out our SPECIAL HOLIDAY DISCOUNT FOR NEW EMAIL SUBSCRIBERS TO OUR MONTHLY ONLINE EDUCATOR PUBLICATION. YOU WILL RECEIVE 12 ISSUES BY EMAIL FOR ONLY $19.95 (REG. $24.95). THIS OFFER GOOD ONLY UNTIL JANUARY 1, 1998. ACT NOW TO RECEIVE THIS USEFUL EDUCATIONAL RESOURCE. SUBSCRIBE BY CALLING 1-800-672-6988 OR GO TO OUR WEB SITE AT http://ole.net/ole/SUBSCRIBE.html and simply fill out the form online. 1. Literature For some reading and writing excercises your students will enjoy, send them to the BOOK REVIEW FORUM. Kids who like to read generally like to write. The Book Review forum allows them to do both. The kids review the books here, then they share those reviews with other students from around the world. If you do reading and writing activities in your class, this could be the perfect site to combine both activities and contribute to a valuable resource for children's literature. 2. Arts >From cave drawings to postmodern painting, your students can see it all through the GATEWAY TO ART HISTORY. If you're looking for a comprehensive overview of art, look no further than this Web site. Maintained by maintained by Chris Witcombe, Professor of Art History in theDepartment of Art History at Sweet Briar College in Virginia, this resource is designed to be used in conjunction with Gardner's "Art Through the Ages" text. You'll find it filled with valuable and instructive links to art resources spread throughout the Internet. 3. Physical Education Who says the Internet can't get physical? Not the folks at SPORTS MEDIA. This award-winning Web site is loaded with lesson plans, activities and other resources for physical education teachers, students and anyone else interested in sports. Your students will like the feature that allows them to find sports-minded keypals around the world. 4.Tools for teachers Hone your online skills and connect with other educators doing the same around the world by joining the TEACHER PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE (TAPPED IN). Sure, you can fire up your classroom computer and jump right into cyberspace alone. There are plenty of great educational things to find out there, but finding them and using them once you've discovered them are the real challenges you face. The Teacher Professional Development Institute, a free service run out of SRI Institute in Menlo Park, Ca., will help you make sense of the Internet by connecting you with other educators and highly trained professionals who have been where you want to go. Learn new skills, find new software packages, meet new colleagues. This service offers all that and more. 5. Recess Want to go swimming on Christmas? You can when you celebrate CHRISTMAS DOWN UNDER. Take your students on a fun trip to Australia and learn how kids there celebrate Christmas. They will have fun listening to Aussie music, sending Christmas e-cards and reading stories written by Australian students. Along the way, they will learn about geography, weather (it's summer Down Under), and all those cool animals that live there! You can check out these sites for yourself by visiting our Hot Links for Teachers page at: http://ole.net:8081/educator/LINKS.hbs Want more? Dig through our database of hundreds of previous Super Sites at: http://ole.net:8081/educator/search.hbs Still want more? Check out our free lesson plans and articles off our homepage: http://ole.net/ole/ Have a suggestion? E-mail us at netsmart@dallas.net Subscription information: http://ole.net/ole/SUBSCRIBE.html Online Educator/NIEOnline Web site: http://ole.net/ole/ 3131 Turtle Creek Blvd. Suite 1250 Dallas, TX. 75219 (214)526-3700 or (800)672-6988 Email: onlineed@dallas.net From jimros at sonoma.lib.ca.us Wed Nov 26 13:13:55 1997 From: jimros at sonoma.lib.ca.us (Jim Rosaschi) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Position: Internet Librarian (Public Library) Message-ID: SONOMA COUNTY LIBRARY (Santa Rosa, California) ANNOUNCES A LIBRARIAN II POSITION INTERNET LIBRARIAN SALARY RANGE: LIBRARIAN II - $37,898 - $46,051 TYPICAL TASKS: Develops and maintains the Sonoma County Library Home Page; coordinates sources linked to the SCL Home Page; researches authority of sources linked to the SCL Home Page; coordinates access and linking of SCL Home Page to local, regional, and state home pages; Develops and recommends policies and procedures for uses; works with public services staff to recommend data bases; Develops training opportunities for staff and public, serves as primary contact for dial-in and Internet access questions; assists Director with fund raising and grant applications for the Internet Branch. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Graduation from a college or university approved by an accrediting association of more than statewide standing, plus the possession of a graduate library degree from a school accredited by the American Library Association. EDUCATION: A combination of education and training which would provide the opportunity to acquire the skills and knowledge to accomplish the above listed tasks. Normally, academic course work in computer science, and closely related fields would provide such an opportunity. Specialized training in network operations, Internet management, and HTML is highly desirable. EXPERIENCE: Two years of current professional library experience beyond receipt of the MLS. Any combination of education and experience which would provide the ability to accomplish the above tasks. Experience in a similar position is highly desirable. Experience in a public library setting is highly desirable. POSITION AVAILABLE: January 1, 1998 CLOSING DATE: December 22, 1997 APPLICATIONS: Application forms may be obtained from the Personnel Office, Central Library, Third and E Streets, Santa Rosa, CA 95404, and must be accompanied by a resume. (707) 545-0831 x553. SELECTION PROCESS: The most qualified applicant(s) will be scheduled for an oral interview and written exam on which final selection will be based. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Nov 26 14:14:04 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Happy Thanksgiving References: <1.5.4.32.19971126185823.0069b548@mailwebsrv.bville.lib.ny.us> Message-ID: <347C74FC.F5311BD3@morrisville.edu> HOW TO COOK A TURKEY Step 1: Go buy a turkey Step 2: Take a drink of whiskey (scotch) OR JD Step 3: Put turkey in the oven Step 4: Take another 2 drinks of whiskey Step 5: Set the degree at 375 ovens Step 6: Take 3 more whiskeys of drink Step 7: Turn oven the on Step 8: Take 4 whisks of drinky Step 9: Turk the bastey Step 10: Whiskey another bottle of get Step 11: Stick a turkey in the thermometer Step 12: Glass yourself a pour of whiskey Step 13: Bake the whiskey for 4 hours Step 14: Take the oven out of the turkey Step 15: Take the oven out of the turkey Step 16: Floor the turkey up off of the pick Step 17: Turk the carvey Step 18: Get yourself another scottle of botch Step 19: Tet the sable and pour yourself a glass of turkey Step 20: Bless the saying, pass and eat out -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ Address Book Card available upon request (v-card) -- From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Nov 26 14:55:56 1997 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: First Search URLs Message-ID: <347C7ECC.BED0A3CC@morrisville.edu> I have a part of our webpage that links to various FirstSearch databases. We are set up for IP recognition. The problem is I can't get the new timeout feature to work. Here is the text for a typical link. ERIC The page never timesout. What am I doing wrong? -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill"); Associate Librarian (Systems, Reference) SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 E-mail: DREWWE@MORRISVILLE.EDU powwow:drewwe@wedrew.lib.morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew2 Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows: http://www.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.morrisville.edu/pages/library/ Address Book Card available upon request (v-card) -- From wolinsky at interaccess.com Wed Nov 26 14:59:33 1997 From: wolinsky at interaccess.com (Wolinsky) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Ikiosk Help Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971126195933.00a50a94@pop.interaccess.com> I'm setting up our first public access Internet station (Win95, Netscape 4.03 standalone) and I need some help tweaking Ikiosk. I find I've done something that prompts a "disabled" message after the user types a url in the location box and hits enter. The new site is requested anyway and loads just fine, but I'd like to undo Ikiosk's message. I tried going step-by-step through the items I recorded, but couldn't pin down the culprit. I'd appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks, Judi wolinsky@interaccess.com From rmanders at sprynet.com Wed Nov 26 16:22:04 1997 From: rmanders at sprynet.com (Randy Anderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: ACLU and the Web Message-ID: <347C92FB.A5F499C3@sprynet.com> Here is an article from last month but one I know this group will find interesting. http://www.zdnet.com/products/content/articles/199710/np.clueless/ I believe Mr. Kirchner hits the nail on the head. Randy Anderson Kirkland Library Board rmanders@sprynet.com 425-814-4740 From jlind at www.biblio.org Wed Nov 26 16:27:11 1997 From: jlind at www.biblio.org (Jan Lindquist) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: NEC SuperScript 860 Message-ID: <01bcfab2$0ed9aac0$94dcf3ce@FR16.biblio.org> Hi - Fairfield Public Library is planning to buy some new printers and we were wondering if anyone has had any experiences with the NEC SuperScript 86 laser printer for public use on a CD-ROM LAN with internet connections. This is as an alternative to the HP LaserJet 6L which we are also considering for our internet printers. Thanks, Jan L. Jan Lindquist Reference Librarian, Fairfield Public Library Fairfield, Connecticut 06430 vox: (203) 256-3160 fax: (203) 256-3162 From Margret.Fleck at vuw.ac.nz Wed Nov 26 23:13:07 1997 From: Margret.Fleck at vuw.ac.nz (Roslyn Margret Fleck) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:33 2005 Subject: Ikiosk loop problem Message-ID: Hi Everyone After lurking for nine months I finally have a problem which I am hoping someone on the list can help me with. The library has installed Ikiosk on all our web database machines to discourage those users who can't keep control of their curiosity or mice. The problem I have is that I ran the remove programme on one of the machines, which it duly did. I then ran the install program to bring up the Ikiosk program group (so I could make my changes). However this didn't bring up the program group so I ran it again. This time I got the program group, but I was unable to start Ikiosk as the message came up telling me to restart windows. However as program manager was still locked down I was not able to restart windows. So I rebooted. Now I have a loop where I can't start Ikiosk (as it is disabled) until I restart windows etc. Has anyone else had this problem and can you tell me what causes it and how to fix it so that it doesn't happen again? TIA -Margret Fleck Asst Librarian Victoria University of Wellington Library From pwevans at biblio-tech.com Thu Nov 27 14:46:56 1997 From: pwevans at biblio-tech.com (Peter Evans) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:35 2005 Subject: Biblio Tech Review: Announcement Message-ID: <347DCE30.7C53@biblio-tech.com> Biblio Tech Review ------------------ http://www.biblio-tech.com Z39.50 Technology Review ======================== This major update to "Biblio Tech Review" contains a new Technology Briefing on Z39.50 technology: * implications including for WEB services and products * product trends * "how it works" analysis. Also in this issue is a review of three Z39.50 PC products with a detailed features comparison. And lots more... http://www.biblio-tech.com +++ Apologies for cross posting +++ From mmhung at hknet.com Thu Nov 27 06:41:57 1997 From: mmhung at hknet.com (Michael Ming, Hung) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:35 2005 Subject: HIT: School Library Homepage Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971127194157.00695b0c@hknet.com> Thanks for all the librarians that response to my question. In fact, I have asked this question once on the news forums in hongkong, but NOBODY response. Sigh! Well, all your contributions are very valuable in my future development on the school library web pages. Hope the following help: ^^^^^original message^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. What should be put inside a school library homepage that interesting and attract students and others to come again? 2. Are there any sample school library homepages? ********************************************************************* michael hung SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School Librarian HK Professional Teachers' Union, Teacher-librarians' Group, Chairman Homepage = http://www.school.net.hk/~mmhung/ michael email: mmhung@school.net.hk [or] mmhung@hknet.com ida email: idayhchan@valise.com ida & michael Hung ********************************************************************* ^^^^^^original ends^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To find a list of LOTS of school library homepages, wholse links can be accessed both by state and grade level(s) served, try http://www.web66.com look in the registry. There are other good things at this site as well that will assist you in developing a homepage. Good luck! Lin Hatch lhatch@pokey.k12.ar.us LMS, Pocahontas High School Pocahontas, AR 72455 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You will find help in designing your Library Home Page on these sites: Filamentality: Topic Ideas for Librarians Online http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/fil/librarian_ideas.html Library Web Manager's Reference Center http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web4Lib/faq.html Library Clip Art collection http://www.netins.net/showcase/meyers/clipart.zip WRITING FOR THE WEB: A PRIMER FOR LIBRARIANS http://bones.med.ohio-state.edu/eric/papers/primer/webdocs.html INTERACTIVE VERSION http://bones.med.ohio-state.edu/eric/papers/primer/toc.html You will find examples of school library web pages on most of the sites linked on this page: HotList of K-12 Internet School Sites http://rrnet.com/~gleason/k12.html Hope these help. If you have other questions, feel free to write. I am just learning these thing too. Ia Forrester ia@marin.k12.ca.us ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Michael-- I have designed our library homepage quickly and easily guide students, teachers and parents to Internet resources of value to the school's curriculum. I don't believe that it should be very fancy--it should be elegant and simply designed with few surprises. It should have annotated links, and the links should be very well organized. The website should be set up as the homepage on all Internet computers in the library. Lessons should be taught, using the website as a navigational tool and the starting place for all research. We have two full text web-basedperiodical databases, and students are only two mouse clicks away from these resources. I prefer to stay away from long pages that require a great deal of scrolling, and every page of the library website should have a common toolbar, guiding students to other areas of the website quickly. I use tables to get the maximum use of the horizontal space--it works very well for us. One more thing...keep the website updated, and constantly improve the design and content. Please visit our website and let me know what you think. I appreciate feedback. http://icsd.k12.ny.us/highschool/library best, Armin ______________________________ Armin Heurich Librarian Ithaca High School, Ithaca New York heurich@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/heurich (607) 256-9088 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >1. What should be put inside a school library homepage that interesting and >attract students and others to come again? - links to assignments / HWs that have been set by teachers - links to current "fads" (eg: SPice girls in UK!) - the library catalogue is always useful - school magazine - opportunities for students to set up their own homepages and to send e-mail to others (thought you may have to moniter to avoid the dangers of hate-mail) - links to current events - eg:news / sport like the walled garden approach of AoL (UK/US) or CampusWorld (UK) Paul Hopkins ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mike, If you visit the Web66 International Registry of Schools http://web66.coled.umn.edu/schools/US/Minnesota.html I am sure you will find many library pages within these sites. The library web sites are as varied as we are. Think about what you want to share with the students. What might be fun but educational. Sites that might fill a gap in your collection. It would be nice if uyour library web site would dovetail with your in-house resources rather than compete with them. I am trying to create our Media Center web site. I am thinking of including sites of virtual magazines, educational games/contests, lesser known, but good search engines, as well as good resources for different subject areas. Look at Kathy Schrock's home page http://www.capecod.net/schrockguide/ You will find all kinds of ideas there which might work for you. Good luck Ruth Rogers, Media Specialist Battery creek high School rsrbchs@hargray.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Many of the ones I put up here: http://www.wcsu.k12.vt.us/~wardsboro/mps.htm#Schools are there because they answer your first question. -Dale -- Dale Copps, dcopps@wcsu.k12.vt.us Librarian, Wardsboro & Winhall (VT) Elementary Schools http://www.wcsu.k12.vt.us/~winhall http://www.wcsu.k12.vt.us/~wardsboro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Go to Peter Milbury's School Librarian Web Pages http://www.cusd.chico.k12.ca.us/~pmilbury/lib.html Hope this helps!! Mary Todd, Media Specialist Cairo-Durham H.S. Cairo, NY LDREWINGO@AOL.COM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 1. What should be put inside a school library homepage that interesting and > attract students and others to come again? -course schedules -information about professors, how to contact them, their specialities, etc. -course descriptions -instructions on how to subscribe to listservs, newsgroups, etc. -links to websites of interest to librarians -library student groups -school policies -meetings schedules > 2. Are there any sample school library homepages? I am a student at the San Jose State University Library and Information Science program and I visit our library school homepage again and again whenever I have a a school related policy question. http://witloof.sjsu.edu Hope this helps. -Jacquie Lesch ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you are not able to answer these questions yourself, then the site is not needed. I have been an advocate for some time now that there are too many websites that offer no content. If you are struggling with trying to find out what to put on a site, then it is my belief that the proposed site is not needed. I mean no disrespect, but publishing a website requires material. If there isn't a base of content to draw upon from your end, then why write the site? (rhetorical) _________________________________________ robert owens a concerned citizen from the 1st district new jersey ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check our homepage listed below. -- Carolyn Pearl, Librarian, Westfield High School, Houston, TX mailto:carolynp@hiway.spring.isd.tenet.edu (school) mialto:cpearl@flash.net (home) Bookmark our web page: http://www.spring.isd.tenet.edu/whs/lib ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We have created a simple program that creates a website for libraries. The user simply fills in the blanks and then clicks a button. It is called HomeMaker for Libraries, is free, and can be found at http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/libmkr. Most library users want quick access to information resources. Let that be your guide. Web66 has an index to schools with web pages. Library pages might also be there. Check it out. Web66 should be a sufficient search term. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Michael, This response may not be relevant in your situation, but in Colorado we are losing media specialist postions, site based management is the norm, and principals care greatly about improving test scores because of new content standards. If media specialists value their jobs, they had better be addressing content standards, and I can't think of of better way than by creating web pages that point to resources that help teachers and student achieve content standards in various subjects. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check Teen Services Pages at: http://www-lib.co.santa-clara.ca.us/ya/yapages.html Jacques Presseault jacques@olsn.on.ca Ontario Library Service - North (Sudbury) 334 Regent, Sudbury, Ont., P3C 4E2 http://www.library.on.ca/index.html Tel.: (705) 675-6433 Fax: (705) 671-2441 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We have a pretty cool library web site: http://www.chs.chico.k12.ca.us ************************************************** Margaret Rummens Chico Senior High School 901 Esplanade Chico, CA 916-891-3026 http://www.chs.chico.k12.ca.us ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You could visit our home site @ http://www.oseda.missouri.edu/troy.k12.mo.us The former librarian was a whiz at technology, and she developed a great web site for our library. Go into the Library Links when you pull up our home page. AlsoFrancis Howell North has a good page, as do several other schools in that district. Georganna Krumlinde, Librarian Troy Buchanan High School, 1190 Old Cap-Au-Gris Troy, MO 63379 Voice:314 528 4618 FAX:314 462 2903 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *** This is the URL for our school's page: http://206.12.151.253/LRC/LRC.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check out Arcadia's Library homepage at the following address; http://www.greeceny.com/arm/arclib.htm (o o) +---------ooO--(_)--0oo----------+ | Don Menges | | Technology Integration Teacher | | mailto:dmenges@greeceny.com | | http://www.greeceny.com/ | | Check out Student Projects! | +--------------------------------+ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Media Specialist/ Librarian at our school is in the process of putting together a very useful site with helpful links for both students and teachers. Here's the URL: http://www.beavton.k12.or.us/Greenway/home.html If you click on Classrooms, then Mr. Leahy's 3/4, you will be in my class' web page. This was just put up a week ago and the class is hoping that people will view it and email us. I also have a personal web site I've put together for students and teachers. Here is its URL: www.teleport.com/~dleahy/Truth/ Dave ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Leahy dleahy@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~dleahy/ ------------------------------------------------------ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This one is from our school. http://www.marlborough.k12.ma.us/schools/mhs/lmc/index.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *************************************************************************** michael hung SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School Librarian HK Professional Teachers' Union, Teacher-librarians' Group, Chairman Jesus Christ, is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever. ~Hebrew 13:8 Homepage = http://www.school.net.hk/~mmhung/ michael email: mmhung@school.net.hk [or] mmhung@hknet.com ida email: idayhchan@valise.com ida & michael Hung *************************************************************************** From tull at acs.ucalgary.ca Thu Nov 27 15:48:10 1997 From: tull at acs.ucalgary.ca (C Eric Tull) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:35 2005 Subject: Access97 Presentations, Access98 Conference Message-ID: <9711272048.AA58574@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> The Access'97 conference was held in Calgary, Alberta at the end of September this year. The conference presentations are almost all available now at http://www.ucalgary.ca/library/access97/ Appended to this message is the list of the presentations that were given. The conference was a great success. Now is the time to start planning to attend the Access'98 conference, which will be held October 2-4, 1998 in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan ( http://library.usask.ca/access98/ ) Eric Tull University of Calgary Library ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Access'97 : INTEGRATION or FRAGMENTATION ? September 29 - October 1, 1997 Calgary Alberta The Fifth Annual Conference on WWW Applications for Libraries PROGRAM AND PRESENTATIONS Keynote Speaker Dr. Charles Lowry Content and Technologies for the Virtual Library: Fragmentation or Integration? Third Generation Web-based OPACs Lyn Martin SuperPAC Art Rhyno VRML to Navigate Information Space Streaming Video Janice Bakal Distributing Multimedia on the Web Browsers Dr. Rob Berdan Comparing Netscape and Explorer State of the Internet Dr. Clifford Lynch Western Canada Virtual Library Project Kristina Long, Lynn Copeland, Jonathan Esterhazy Databases Panel Rob McKinney SilverPlatter Dana Johnson OVID Stephen Rhind-Tutt Chadwyck Healey Java Terry Noreault Java: Experience at OCLC Matthew Freedman Java: a Dispatch from the Front Lines Electronic Text Center David Seaman Thin Clients Alan Darnell Citrix Winframe and Multi-user Windows NT Guy Hummel Sun's JavaStation MAGIC Patrick McGlamery Cable Access to the Internet Rich Wiggins Cable Modems: Myths and Reality Garth Mihalcheon Shaw Cable's WAVE Z39.50 Implementation Slavko Manojlovich Configuring Z39.50 Clients and Servers: Dirty Little Secrets System Vendors Panel Jane Beaumont moderator Earl Boyce Ameritech Carl Grant Innovative Interfaces Greg Hathorn SIRSI Andre Hudon Geac Don Reilly Endeavor Online Cataloguing Tools Ross Thrasher Workflow Automation Concepts Greg Hathorn Intranets Evan Fietz The Interactive Enterprise in the 21st Century In Cyberspace No-one Can Hear You Shush David Brown The Consumer Dr. Bruce Clark The Professor as Consumer of Web-based Information Resources Project Galileo Dr. George Gaumond Convergence to the Information Highway Dr. Brian Gaines Concluding Remarks Selden Deemer Looking Back From scottp at moondog.usask.ca Fri Nov 28 14:21:18 1997 From: scottp at moondog.usask.ca (Peter Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:38 2005 Subject: Access97 Presentations, Access98 Conference In-Reply-To: <9711272048.AA58574@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, C Eric Tull wrote: >Now is the time to start planning to attend the Access'98 conference, >which will be held October 2-4, 1998 in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > ( http://library.usask.ca/access98/ ) List members might also like to know that Mr.Web4lib himself, Roy Tennant, will be the Keynote Speaker at the conference..... Peter Scott, Manager, Small Systems, University of Saskatchewan Libraries 3 Campus Drive, Saskatoon, Sask, Canada, S7N 5A4 Phone 306-966-5920 FAX 306-966-6040 Home Page: http://www.usask.ca/~scottp/ From mmhung at hknet.com Sun Nov 30 10:01:09 1997 From: mmhung at hknet.com (Michael Ming, Hung) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:40 2005 Subject: Document management Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971130230109.007af890@hknet.com> Does anybody know any shareware which can help to build a newspaper clipping library, which could: 1. scan / import scanned image from newspaper 2. index with keywords input 3. can use keywords to retrieve image *************************************************************************** michael hung SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School Librarian HK Professional Teachers' Union, Teacher-librarians' Group, Chairman Jesus Christ, is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever. ~Hebrew 13:8 Homepage = http://www.school.net.hk/~mmhung/ michael email: mmhung@school.net.hk [or] mmhung@hknet.com ida email: idayhchan@valise.com ida & michael Hung *************************************************************************** From his at virtuallibrarian.com Sun Nov 30 21:26:00 1997 From: his at virtuallibrarian.com (H.I.S.) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:40 2005 Subject: listserve address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971130212600.006afeac@mail.virtuallibrarian.com> Hello. Dig and dig again, I can't seem to locate the listserve address for "filtering and libraries"? and/or... Can anyone share with me their policy for 12 year old and under Internet usage? Thanks in advance. Cynthia Hetherington, technology librarian Englewood Public Library, NJ PS - It was great meeting the other web4lib'ers at the Internet Librarian conference. mailto:cyn@virtuallibrarian.com ******ICQ# 1112086****** http://www.virtuallibrarian.com/ From stephanie at friendcalib.org Sun Nov 30 23:34:59 1997 From: stephanie at friendcalib.org (Stephanie Stokes) Date: Wed May 18 14:47:40 2005 Subject: ALA Unveils *cybercollection* of 700+ Sites for Kids Message-ID: <199712010434.UAA01847@proxy4.ba.best.com> American Library Association News Release For Release: December 1, 1997 Contact: Public Information Office Joyce Kelly/Linda Wallace 312-280-5043/42 pio@ala.org American Library Association ALA Unveils *cybercollection* of 700+ Sites for Kids (Washington, D.C.) -- The American Library Association (ALA) has launched a new *cybercollection* of links to more than 700 fun, exciting and useful Web sites for children and their grown-ups. The *Great Sites* were unveiled today at the Internet/Online Summit: Focus on Children, a first-ever summit of industry leaders, educators, librarians, law enforcement officials and family advocates to focus on enhanced education and safety of children in cyberspace. ALA's site was featured as an example of the kinds of support increasingly available for children and adults at libraries across the nation. The full name is Great Sites: Amazing, Spectacular, Mysterious, Wonderful Web Sites for Kids and the Adults Who Care About Them. The site can be found on the association's Web page at http://www.ala.org/parentspage/greatsites/amazing.html "This is what librarians do best," says ALA President Barbara J. Ford. "We help kids connect to quality resources -- only today it's not just books. The Internet is an exciting new tool that helps us offer both global reach and local touch." Links include sites ranging from the Negro Baseball Leagues and the Electronic Zoo to a Club Girl Tech Game Cafe and the Titanic. Subjects include standards like the arts, history and science, along with dinosaurs, games and other kid favorites. Special features include a Spanish language collection and sites of special interest to parents, educators, homeschoolers and caregivers. There are links to the Library of Congress and a growing number of libraries throughout the U.S. Steven Herb, immediate past president of Association for Library Service to Children (ALSC), a division of the American Library Association, served as project coordinator. Herb says the selection criteria for the "Great Sites" combine professional evaluation techniques used by librarians with new criteria that address the special characteristics of cyberspace. The criteria, posted on the site, provide helpful insights for librarians, parents, educators and others on what makes a good Web site. The sites were selected by the Children and Technology Committee of the Association for Library Service to Children. Members are: Alan Bern, Berkeley (Calif.) Public Library; Jane Botham, Milwaukee Public Library; Roxanne Hsu Feldman, New York Public Library; Christine Ginsberg, Darien (Conn.) Public Library; Julie James, Kansas City (Mo.) Public Library; Monique King, Benicia (Calif.) Public Library, chair; Walter Minkel, Multnomah County Library, Portland, Ore.; Kay Vandergrift, Rutgers University (N.J.) and Eliza Dresang, Florida State University, Tallahassee, ALSC board liaison. The *700+ Great Sites* builds on a list of 50+ Great Sites for Kids and Parents that ALA published in June as part of the *Librarian's Guide to Cyberspace for Parents for Kids.* An index of resources for parents and children, including lists of award-winning books and other materials, can be found on the ALA Web page at http://www.ala.org/parents/. For more information, contact the American Library Association, Public Information Office, 50 E. Huron St., Chicago, IL 60611. Telephone: 312-280-5044. Fax: 312-944-8520. E-mail: pio@ala.org ####